Apparently I Owe "Consumer Use Tax" - WTF?!

[sevin]

I live in Alabama and I just got this letter from the state:


Dear Taxpayer,

Our records indicate that you did not include consumer use tax on your Alabama income tax return for tax year 2009 and we would like to bring to your attention this possible oversight. If you purchased books, clothing, electronics, or other items from an internet or catalog retailer that did not collect Alabama's sales tax, you owe consumer use tax.

Alabama consumer use tax is a counterpart to the state sales tax. It is due when tangible personal property is used or consumed in the state if the sales tax was not applied to the retail sale of the property. Consumer use tax is different from Alabama's sales tax in that it is not collected by the seller. It is your responsibility to report and pay the consumer use tax if you made a purchase of tangible personal property and the seller did not collect tax from you at the time of purchase.

So basically, they want me to add up everything I bought online back in 2009, calculate the tax on it, and send them a check. I don't know if I can even find the receipts for everything I bought online in 2009. This is messed up.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

was it delivered certified mail?

[VBRonPaulFan]

I live in Alabama and I just got this letter from the state:



So basically, they want me to add up everything I bought online back in 2009, calculate the tax on it, and send them a check. I don't know if I can even find the receipts for everything I bought online in 2009. This is messed up.

yeah, a bunch of states have started doing this over the past few years for extra revenue. NY is especially bad.

[Kludge]

lol, yeah I was reading through the tax form this year and noticed it - wondered if anyone actually complied with that nonsense. IIRC (at least in MI where I filed), there's a minimum of $200 for transactions you have to report, so there may be a similar exemption in your state.

I'm guessing no action is required on your part for a "possible oversight."

[sevin]

was it delivered certified mail?

Nope.


lol, yeah I was reading through the tax form this year and noticed it - wondered if anyone actually complied with that nonsense. IIRC (at least in MI where I filed), there's a minimum of $200 for transactions you have to report, so there may be a similar exemption in your state.

I'm guessing no action is required on your part for a "possible oversight."

I dunno. They sent me a form to fill out. Guess I'll try and figure how much I spent in 2009. I'll get around to it eventually.


yeah, a bunch of states have started doing this over the past few years for extra revenue. NY is especially bad.

I guess it's to be expected. States are strapped for cash and they've found a sneaky way to tax the Internet. ugh

[VBRonPaulFan]

Nope.



I dunno. They sent me a form to fill out. Guess I'll try and figure how much I spent in 2009. I'll get around to it eventually.



I guess it's to be expected. States are strapped for cash and they've found a sneaky way to tax the Internet. ugh

Some states actually started doing it before the recession. They saw a new way to generate some cash based on internet based sales where people were (oh goodness, completely unfairly :rolleyes:) not paying sales tax. Most states have exemptions where you only have to report items over X amount of dollars, or you only have to report if you bought more then X amount worth of crap during the year. Your best bet is to contact the state and say you have no records of anything you purchased during that time and to see if they'll send you what they think you need to pay on and only take care of that....lol.

[specsaregood]

I dunno. They sent me a form to fill out. Guess I'll try and figure how much I spent in 2009. I'll get around to it eventually.


How do they know you purchased anything?

[Kludge]

How do they know you purchased anything?
I was curious how they could ever possibly hope to enforce it, too. Seems like people would have to go along with it (quite truly in this case) voluntarily.

[Dr.3D]

I'm waiting for the you paid a tax, tax. As the states get more desperate, they will try anything to get more money. I wish they would just cut down their expenses by around 80%.

[April1775]

Is the return address and pay to legit? Might be a scam. I searched some text off this online and all that came up was your post.
Who do they want the money sent to.

[aGameOfThrones]

Consumer Use Tax



*

Do you make retail purchases when you are on vacation outside of Alabama?
*

Do you buy any items from businesses on the Internet?
*

Do you purchase any retail items over the telephone?
* Do you purchase any retail items from catalogs or mail order?


If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, you may be liable for Consumer Use Tax. Use the Consumer Use Tax Calculator to keep track of all the purchases you made but did not pay sales tax on!!!



What is Consumer Use Tax?

When you shop at retail stores and many other business establishments in Alabama, the price you pay for the retail purchases you make usually includes Alabama sales taxes. This tax is calculated at the rate of 4% of the cost of the item(s) you purchased. When you make retail purchases for similar items from businesses located outside of Alabama (mail order, Internet, telephone, while on vacation, etc.), you are responsible, as the consumer, for ensuring that the Alabama sales tax (which is called a "consumer use tax") is paid on these purchases if the business from which you made your purchase did not charge you Alabama sales tax for your purchase(s) and if the items you purchased are delivered to or brought back with you to Alabama.



What Retail Purchases are Subject to Alabama Consumer Use Tax?

Examples of retail purchases subject to Alabama sales (or consumer use) tax:

* Clothing
* Books
* Computers
* Computer Software
* Furniture
* Magazine Subscriptions
* Sporting Goods
* Jewelry
* Electronic Equipment
* CDs, DVDs, Audio & Video Cassettes
* Photographic Equipment
* Musical Equipment
* Automotive Accessories and Parts
* All other retail purchases subject to Alabama sales taxes



Is There A Credit for the Sales Taxes that are Paid to the Other States?

If you were charged a sales tax (other than Alabama sales tax) by the out-of-state business for the item(s) you purchased, you are allowed a credit against your Alabama consumer use tax due for the amount of the sales tax you paid with your purchase, not to exceed 4% of the purchase price.

http://www.revenue.alabama.gov/incometax/consumerusetax.htm

[aGameOfThrones]

Me thinks they're fishing to make you pay, because obviously most people shop online etc. They have to audit your CC/Bank statements to actually have something against you, but what if you paid cash (i.e. Do you make retail purchases when you are on vacation outside of Alabama?).

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Nope.




oops.

[cswake]

It's quite real:

http://www.revenue.alabama.gov/prdocs/SUBConsumerUseTax10.pdf

You should be collecting your receipts during the year and submitting it on your State Income Tax form. The best part is that it also includes sellers other than retailers, such as most eBay auctions:

http://seekingalpha.com/news-article/447880-opinion-consumer-use-sales-tax-what-s-that

[HOLLYWOOD]

If they become overzealous and AL is hounding you in the future... Don't show them anything, consult a tax accountant, which in turn, will probably have the state demand exactly what you owe taxes on purchases. I hear Florida is getting tough on tracking big purchases from out of state.

Cash is king, or even those "Green Dot" Debit Cards... but it's only a matter of time before they track every single purchase, every delivery, every movement of commerce.

[Cleaner44]

They are just fishing for free money. I see no reason to volunteer to give them evidense they do not have so they can tax you.

[April1775]

non-registered mail? Never got it.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Had you followed any of Danke's or other people who share a similar line of thought you might be considering something like this for a reply:


Our records indicate that you did not include consumer use tax on your Alabama income tax return for tax year 2009 and we would like to bring to your attention this possible oversight. If you purchased books, clothing, electronics, or other items from an internet or catalog retailer that did not collect Alabama's sales tax, you owe consumer use tax.

Dear Alabama Department of Revenue,

I have received your letter dated ____. I accept your claim I did not include consumer use tax on my Alabama income tax return conditioned upon the Department of Revenue defining include, consumer use tax and receipt of proof I owe consumer use tax. Please also define purchase, books, clothing, electronics, other items, internet retailer, and catalog retailer. etc...

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

If it was up to me, I wouldn't even respond to them. I would challenge them to try and enforce this and convict me in a jury trial. They get most of the people to pay based on intimidation, and I would call their bluff. I don't see how they could enforce and convict this.

I got a package by the Census Bureau saying I was selected for some Community Questionnaire that I just threw in the trash. They sent me another and it had 'required by law' on it. Threw that one in the trash also. I'm not going to comply with their bullshit any longer on almost everything.

[eOs]

If it was up to me, I wouldn't even respond to them. I would challenge them to try and enforce this and convict me in a jury trial. They get most of the people to pay based on intimidation, and I would call their bluff. I don't see how they could enforce and convict this.

I got a package by the Census Bureau saying I was selected for some Community Questionnaire that I just threw in the trash. They sent me another and it had 'required by law' on it. Threw that one in the trash also. I'm not going to comply with their bullshit any longer on almost everything.

+1

[WyoLiberty]

Round file it...not registered mail - they don't even address you by name...pitch it.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

If it was up to me, I wouldn't even respond to them. I would challenge them to try and enforce this and convict me in a jury trial. They get most of the people to pay based on intimidation, and I would call their bluff. I don't see how they could enforce and convict this.

I got a package by the Census Bureau saying I was selected for some Community Questionnaire that I just threw in the trash. They sent me another and it had 'required by law' on it. Threw that one in the trash also. I'm not going to comply with their bullshit any longer on almost everything.

Trial Excerpt:

Judge: I have reviewed the case and it appears the facts are not in dispute.

Attorney for Defendant: Your honor I object.

Judge: On what grounds do you object?

Judicial reality. The State has evidence they sent several notices to the defendants address in which the defendant never replied. If a claim is not rebutted it stands as fact therefore the fact something is owed is not in dispute. Since the fact something is owed is not in dispute the only matter before the court is how much will be paid and when.

[jdowns]

SCOTUS outlawed states imposing any tax on goods bought via internet and mail order catalogs.

The problem is some states are stealthy imposing taxes and laws by circumventing legislative process. They will keep federal and state tax refunds by imposing a false tax owed on your records. They can do this by getting out of state collection agencies to do the dirty part like sending the dunning notices.

Some states have stopped this action by filing class actions and passing laws explicitly forbidding the practice. It's frustrating!

[Tal]

If it was up to me, I wouldn't even respond to them. I would challenge them to try and enforce this and convict me in a jury trial. They get most of the people to pay based on intimidation, and I would call their bluff. I don't see how they could enforce and convict this.

I got a package by the Census Bureau saying I was selected for some Community Questionnaire that I just threw in the trash. They sent me another and it had 'required by law' on it. Threw that one in the trash also. I'm not going to comply with their bullshit any longer on almost everything.

Hehe you are just like me, I keep getting a letter every year telling me im not paying my ''multimedia tax and I have to pay even if I dont own a computer and just have a TV and if I dont pay I might risk having agents of the state coming to my residence to check whether I am telling the truth''.

I just throw it in the trash every year. :D

Fuck that tax really, it goes to the danish government TV channels and no fucking way im gonna give my hard earned money to the commies working for that TV-station (the station has a nickname in danish called ''De ræverøde lejesvende'' which translates into ''the dark red mercenaries'', im sure you can figure out why they have that nickname (it was invented during the cold war).

Even if they come im not gonna let them into my apartment unless they have a police officer with them.

[Mrs.Joe]

Can't you just say...I didn't buy anything??

[Tal]

Delete, misread.

[Doug8796]

sevin, I am a Alabama resident as well. What area do you live in?

[sevin]

Is the return address and pay to legit? Might be a scam. I searched some text off this online and all that came up was your post.
Who do they want the money sent to.

It's legit.


Can't you just say...I didn't buy anything??

I'm not even sure I did buy anything. I hardly ever bought anything online until last year.


sevin, I am a Alabama resident as well. What area do you live in?

Mobile.

[Anti Federalist]

Can't you just say...I didn't buy anything??

Nope, because of the prison grid system we live in.

The state goes to the retailers, the retailers happily cough up all their customer records, which are all on the electronic slave grid if it's anything other than anonymous cash, and you're busted on a number of criminal counts.

Get used to this, this will be the norm moving forward.

Same thing with medical records disqualifying you for jobs, insurance or what have you.

"Lying" or more accurately maintaining your privacy, will not be possibly within the next few years.

[Doug8796]

Ahh.. I am in Bham

[Grubb556]

Consumer Use Tax

When you make retail purchases for similar items from businesses[B] located outside of Alabama (mail order, Internet, telephone, while on vacation, etc.), you are responsible, as the consumer, for ensuring that the Alabama sales tax (which is called a "consumer use tax") is paid on these purchases if the business from which you made your purchase did not charge you Alabama sales tax for your purchase(s) and if the items you purchased are delivered to or brought back with you to Alabama.



Wait, so a state can levy taxes outside of said state ? Seems like that is out of its jurisdiction.

[mrsat_98]

I would love to get one of these after beating sales and use tax soundly. I could have so much fun. Of course since I have not filed an income tax return since 1993 I seriously doubt I will get the opportunity.

[daviddee]

...

[daviddee]

...

[Mike4Freedom]

They cannot tax you for this. Only the state you bought it from can and they don't. Why are you paying taxes to alabama on an item purchased in another state. I don't see how they can enforce this in any way.

[aGameOfThrones]

They cannot tax you for this. Only the state you bought it from can and they don't. Why are you paying taxes to alabama on an item purchased in another state. I don't see how they can enforce this in any way.

By use of threats and force! Also, by people who rather pay the extortion rather than fight the extortionist.

[daviddee]

...

[Anti Federalist]

Whistle past the interconnected database graveyard all you wish, the fact is that the states are already using CC transaction records to collect tobacco tax through the Jenkins Act.

The courts have already ruled that an electronic record of a CC bearing your name is prima facie evidence of your having made that purchase. Furthermore, in many cases the EULA that you agree to on some products also makes it clear that you liable for all federal, state and local taxes.

People are already going to jail, getting fined, losing work credentials or getting taxed as every aspect of life is on some file somewhere to be reviewed for "compliance".

It's only going to get hellishly worse.

[osan]

I live in Alabama...
So basically, they want me to add up everything I bought online back in 2009, calculate the tax on it, and send them a check. I don't know if I can even find the receipts for everything I bought online in 2009. This is messed up.

You must be joking. If you respond to this you deserve everything you get.

I would ignore it. YMMV.

[BamaAla]

Expect anything less from Montgomery? Hope like hell I don't get one.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Dear Sirs:

I am in receipt of your letter dated March 3rd, 2011 in regards to my "Consumer Use Tax". Due to the recent economic conditions, and laws of other states, I have made all my purchases in 2010 in the great State of Alabama. These purchases were mainly basic necessities of life such as food, gasoline, etc. The 100,000 rounds, numerous machine guns, gold bars, and armor plate for my vehicle simply are not available in other states and certainly not available for shipment because of onerous laws and oppressive freight rates.

Thank you for your correspondence.

lol!


if the items you purchased are delivered to or brought back with you to Alabama.

So if you move to the state, they want to tax you for everything you own?

As to records of what was delivered to you - who says you bought it? There are things called gifts, you know.

-t

[Feeding the Abscess]

I thought the IRS was given authority to track and place in a database credit and debit card purchases as the result of a couple of pieces of legislation a year or two ago?

[Kludge]

I thought the IRS was given authority to track and place in a database credit and debit card purchases as the result of a couple of pieces of legislation a year or two ago?
Do Fed & State tax collection agencies communicate in a way it'd put "Consumer Use" tax evaders at risk?

[cindy25]

probably a form letter

but what if you use a NH zip on mail order purchases.

might delay your order but it would arrive.

or a trick I used for mail order. instead of NY or CA use NH with the correct NY or AL zip

[Soggy Cereal]

Isn't this essentially states attempting to put up tariffs? I mean, if you're taxed because you bought something on Amazon.com's warehouse in New Jersey or wherever tax-free, and Alabama decides to impose a trans-border sales tax, that's a tariff. Explicitly illegal for states to do this in the Constitution.

[tangent4ronpaul]

We should really start a bunch of "consumer use tax" SCAM WARNING letters to spread to the wind and encourage everyone to forward to their friends. Include something about contacting consumer protection agencies, internet scam hotlines and the FBI if you receive such a letter - even if the address looks legit.

[daviddee]

...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well, anyone want to start writing - I mean past legal and constitutional precedent has been brought up and that is always good to make things spread.

[AZKing]

//

[kpitcher]

This is nothing too new. I know a number of years ago a family member would purchase tobacco online from some Native American store, delivered tax free to MI. The place was sued (Don't recall what for exactly) and their records were used to charge people the lost taxes. I know the family member had to cough up a few hundred.


This almost begs for someone to open a sort of reseller / reshipping service just to keep online purchases anonymous.

[The_Ruffneck]

Chuck the letter in the garbage , it is probably a scam.

[Anti Federalist]

House Republicans demand REAL ID compliance.

Because Real ID links state DMV databases, establishes a standard bar code that can be digitally scanned, and mandates that original documents such as birth certificates be verified, backers claim the benefits extend beyond antiterror and ID fraud cases. (Extending it to firearm and prescription drug sales has not been ruled out.)

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20038613-281.html#ixzz1FegfU6iC


There is the control grid, that another poster dismissed as being too hardware intensive to ever get off the ground.

It's already here, it's already in place, it would take nothing to fully activate and interlink all these databases.

Here's how it will work in the future:

You shitcan this tax letter, the state government decides that, since you never replied, it needs to take a closer look at your purchases. Sure enough, it finds that you made purchases out of state that you did not pay local tax on. Now, they place a lien on your accounts. Keep in mind, your whole life is in the interlinked databases. This lien sets off "red flags" to the credit reporting agencies who jack up your rates on revolving credit to the default amount that can exceed 30 percent. You find it hard to make payments and fall behind. More red flags. Now the DHS starts looking at these credit "red flags" since poor credit is a sign of terrorist activity. They put you on the no fly list, and maybe, like me, you need to fly for work. Now the squeeze is really starting. Red flags start popping up all over as the interlinked systems communicate more and more information. As a practical matter, you're fucked, you will not be able to hold a job, pay bills, open a bank account...you're bankrupt and homeless.

[HOLLYWOOD]

House Republicans demand REAL ID compliance.
Here's how it will work in the future:

You shitcan this tax letter, the state government decides that, since you never replied, it needs to take a closer look at your purchases. Sure enough, it finds that you made purchases out of state that you did not pay local tax on. Now, they place a lien on your accounts. Keep in mind, your whole life is in the interlinked databases. This lien sets off "red flags" to the credit reporting agencies who jack up your rates on revolving credit to the default amount that can exceed 30 percent. You find it hard to make payments and fall behind. More red flags. Now the DHS starts looking at these credit "red flags" since poor credit is a sign of terrorist activity. They put you on the no fly list, and maybe, like me, you need to fly for work. Now the squeeze is really starting. Red flags start popping up all over as the interlinked systems communicate more and more information. As a practical matter, you're fucked, you will not be able to hold a job, pay bills, open a bank account...you're bankrupt and homeless.

The IRS and State Franchise Tax Boards/State Tax departments with Banks, Investment institutions, Insurance companies, other "Asset Institutions" already work like this...

Say you earned income in a certain state which wasn't reported... but was reported to the FEDS... the FEDS share your information with the state databases and a notification of sharing your data shows a mismatch. The state comes after you.

The FEDS and STATES can also with a nationally linked database... demand that any financial type institution where you have assets, can be alerted to seize assets if you were to say, transfer or deposited money/assets within hours. Imagine Banks, Life Insurance and Annuity establishment informing states governments when you deposited assets and automatically LIEN against them in the nation. Same for the FEDS... governments at all levels working together against the people for stealing even more from you no matter where you hold it.

We've already witnessed the US Government/IRS/US Treasury strong-arm small nations(Switzerland, etc) to disclosing any American that has an account in their nation. CFR/Globalists to control the people wherever they may be standing on the planet.

[Brian4Liberty]

The battle is on. Amazon is in trouble, as lawmakers and leftists are desperate to skim money from anywhere they can...



Amazon should pay sales taxes to California and Texas:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2014392091_edit04amazon.html

[April1775]

The battle is on. Amazon is in trouble, as lawmakers and leftists are desperate to skim money from anywhere they can...

I find it ironic that the Seattle Times is being so statist on this ("pay your damn taxes, Amazon!), when the same day, the Seattle Times is in trouble with the feds for promoting legal pot.

There's no such thing as "half-free."

Republicans and Democrats each have about half right....and about half wrong.

[daviddee]

...

[Anti Federalist]

First of all, relax, nobody is "slinging shit at you".

I just happen to think you are wrong about this, the states and the feds will end up demanding compliance from retailers as time goes by, and, Amazon's protestations notwithstanding, they will end up getting it, because, at the end of the day, fighting with government is "bad for business".

Once that compliance is in place, the possibilities are endless and that is why I brought up REAL ID and should bring up TWIC as well, which is the next level of this.

The government/consumer/identification nexus is what I am talking about, which REAL ID and this state tax issue are very much a part of.

The concept that, in the very very near future, nothing you do will be outside of immediate government scrutiny and any instance of non compliance will result in your removal from the grid, the practical result of which will be bankruptcy, prison or death.

That is what am addressing.

I read your initial response and got the impression that you were dismissive of that ever happening.

If I read that wrong, then my sincere apologies.

If not, then I would suggest looking into further, specifically TWIC.




You distorted what I posted. Re-Read it.

You are comparing the FEDERAL govt's computing power to the State of Alabama. I also stated intelligence (brain power). All of this was in regards to this specific topic and what it would take for compliance. How you spiral off on RealID is beyond me.

You additionally are completely ignoring this part of my post:

Quote, "Without all of the above you can not prove a person ordered the product. The Vendor not providing the data is key. ACLU fights these cases and wins. The "Chilling Effect" on ordering is too intense for Amazon and others to tolerate.

Additionally, if the states requested all of the credit card records for all citizens it too would be fought by: Amazon, The Banks, The ACLU, etc."


Everything you are discussing, and posted above this, is STATE and FEDERAL cooperation. Something that is a fact and has been since the dawn of time. This is not the same as STATE + FEDERAL + PRIVATE BUSINESS. Something Amazon has completely refused to do and the ACLU has also fought (see numerous references below).

If you want to go off on tangents to prove a larger point please note that at the top of your replies "Going off on tangent, completely away from the original post, to prove a large point that is not on topic". Instead of sling shit my way, especially considering I do not disagree with what you are saying on most issues. This particular issue, sales tax collection on internet purchases, is not an easy thing to prove without compliance from the vendors. Something Amazon, in particular, has fought tooth and nail.

Reference:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20008662-281.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2011/02/09/aclu-nc-agrees-not-to-seek.html
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publishersweekly.com%2Fpw%2Fb y-topic%2Findustry-news%2Ffinancial-reporting%2Farticle%2F44964-north-carolina-blocked-from-collecting-amazon-customer-data-in-sales-tax-dispute.html&rct=j&q=Amazon%20Tax%20data&ei=tTJxTdDyOovBtgfv_OEa&usg=AFQjCNHhemUW8PromPqTrE-OKGAHuNdNhQ&cad=rja

[Anti Federalist]

//