[Anonymous] Billionaire Koch Brothers Next Target of "Anonymous" Hacker Group

[Sentient Void]

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/150064/billionaire_koch_brothers_next_target_of_%22anonym ous%22_hacker_group

Thoughts?


The decentralized protest group "Anonymous" has a new target: no, it's not a middle eastern dictator, a major bank or even a bit player in the military-industrial complex.

It's none other than tea party financiers Charles and David Koch, who were being targeted, an open letter stated, for their attempts "to usurp American Democracy."

"Koch Industries, and oligarchs like them, have most recently started to manipulate the political agenda in Wisconsin," an announcement posted to anonnews.org declared.

"Governor Walker's union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process," they explained. "The Koch's have helped to fuel the unrest in Wisconsin and the drive behind the bill to eliminate the collective bargaining power of unions in a bid to gain a monopoly over the state's power supplies.

The group, which was responsible for taking MasterCard Worldwide offline for an entire day -- along with numerous other organizations that plotted against secrets outlet WikiLeaks -- said it would now be "actively seeking vulnerabilities" in Koch industries.

"In a world where corporate money has become the lifeblood of political influence, the labor unions are one of the few ways citizens have to fight against corporate greed," the release added. "Anonymous cannot ignore the plight of the citizen-workers of Wisconsin, or the opportunity to fight for the people in America's broken political system. For these reasons, we feel that the Koch brothers threaten the United States democratic system and, by extension, all freedom-loving individuals everywhere."

They added that if one would like to withdraw their unknowing support for the brothers Koch, an array of products would need to be boycotted -- and not just by Americans, but people world-wide.

"Anonymous hears the voice of the downtrodden American people, whose rights and liberties are being systematically removed one by one, even when their own government refuses to listen or worse - is complicit in these attacks," they continued. "We are actively seeking vulnerabilities, but in the mean time we are calling for all supporters of true Democracy, and Freedom of The People, to boycott all Koch Industries' paper products. We welcome unions across the globe to join us in this boycott to show that you will not allow big business to dictate your freedom."

In the US, those products were listed as Vanity Fair, Quilted Northern, Angel Soft, Sparkle, Brawney, Mardi Gras and Dixie. For Europe, they were Demak'Up, Kitten Soft, Lotus / Lotus Soft, Tenderly, Nouvelle Soft, Okay Kitchen Towels, Colhogar, Delica, Inversoft and Tutto.

All were produced by the "Georgia-Pacific" company, and all bear the logo seen above.

The Koch's, who've seen their libertarian cause raised to a full-blown rightwing boogyman status, were principle financiers of Wisconsin's Republican Governor, Scott Walker.

Among his first items of business as the state's governor was attempting to crush public worker unions by making it illegal for them to organize into a union. And while he'd been saying throughout the affair that this was not an attempt to bust unions, a front group for the Koch brothers had one of its spokesmen at this year's Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), who plainly stated that their goal was to take the unions out "at the knees."

DISCUSS!!!

[QueenB4Liberty]

So Anonymous are socialist?

Is there something wrong with that? I'm not sure I understand what the clause they are angry at is trying to say. So publicly (government) owned utility plants can be bought out by private bidders? Is that bad?

[FrankRep]

I support the Kochs. They're not completely in Ron Paul's camp, but they're basically on our side on most things.

________


The Koch Brothers are a major financial force behind Americans for Prosperity (http://www.americansforprosperity.org/), The Cato Institute (http://www.cato.org/), and the Reason Foundation (http://reason.org/)


Wikipedia: David H. Koch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch#Advocacy)



In 1984, Koch founded, served as Chairman of the board of directors of, and donated to the free-market Citizens for a Sound Economy. In 2004, this organization separated into Americans for Prosperity Foundation and FreedomWorks. Koch continues as Chairman of the Board and gives money to Americans for Prosperity Foundation and to a related advocacy organization, Americans for Prosperity. A Koch spokesperson issued a press release stating that the Koch's have "no ties to and have never given money to FreedomWorks"

Both FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity have been providing funding and training to the US Tea Party movement, which opposes much of U.S. President Barack Obama's policies and legislative agenda. In addition, Koch sits on the board and gives money to the libertarian Cato Institute and Reason Foundation. In the late summer and early fall of 2010, Koch's contributions to political campaigns, free-market think tanks and other advocacy organizations came under increased scrutiny. Koch supports the Tea Party movement and Republican candidates, and California Proposition 23 (2010). In July 2010, New York Magazine profiled him, calling him the "tea party’s wallet". In August 2010, Jane Mayer of The New Yorker wrote on the political spending of David and Charles Koch.[18] White House political advisor David Axelrod wrote in The Washington Post, calling them "campaigners we can't see." Koch says that: "I’ve never been to a tea party event. No one representing the tea party has ever even approached me."

[Cowlesy]

That's ridiculous. You can read about the differences the Koch's have had with the true libertarians at the Mises Institute, but they aren't evil or trying to take stuff over. They certainly don't push an agenda of people depending on government.

These Anonymous guys seem to be able to do real economic damage to people. I am disappointed they're targeting rich people because dailyKOS says they're "bad people."

These hackers want to show their stuff? Bet they can't touch the trading algorithms at the Quantum Fund.

[BarryDonegan]

Hackers who shut down and cause damage to websites are criminals and should be treated as such. It doesn't matter what statement they are making. That causes property damage, and people who cause property damage violate individual rights.

We should stand in solidarity with people as charitable as the Koch brothers who even dig into their own pockets to help promote the principles of liberty. The teachers unions have no right to force teachers into their union monopoly. There are alternative unions, and freeing them to competition will improve the standards of workers. Negotiating for an unsustainable salary is not productive for workers, as that typically results in mass layoffs in the future. Teachers deserve an alternative union that actually considers long-term viability and makes sure they are not putting teachers into a situation where they acclimate themselves to an $80,000 annual salary only to have their entire career cut from under them when the government has to liquidate its debts.

[100DollarBarrelofOil]

More union thugs.

[Sentient Void]

I'm glad we have established by now that Anonymous are not necessarily friends of liberty. When they DDOS attacked private property (websites), I knew that they believed that the ends justify the means - and they have no sense of actual principle, but are merely a group of script-kiddie thugs.

The enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.

I will also reference these threads, where some were defending if not outright supporting and advocating Anonymous' attacks...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272149-Do-you-find-the-DDOS-attacks-on-AMZN-VSA-amp-MCD-as-*just*in-libertarian-philosophy

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272171-Is-DDOS-considered-Free-Speech

I will admit, I defended Anonymous and even hailed some of what they did (not the DDOS attacks, though), and believed they were ripe for seeds of liberty. Potential true-liberty lovers. It seems I was mistaken, and that they are merely socialist fools.

[magoo7042]

doesnt sound like anon at all. anon doesnt generally do boycotts. just because someone calls for action under the anonymous banner does not mean there will be actions taken. may be some ddos type stuff, but the real pros will probably stay out of this.

[Epic]

... and Anonymous reveals themselves as socialists. They are going after a big civil libertarian, so I hope everyone realizes they aren't civil libertarians or economic libertarians, just total douchebags.

[notsure]

How do we know that this isn't one of the efforts made by HBGary to discredit anonymous? Wikileaks, anonymous, claim to have all types of financial records from people and institutions all over the world, it's likely they have something incriminating on the Koch Bros.
The article could be spin, leading up to something else.

[Vessol]

Lol, Anonymous isn't part of any political spectrum.

It's just a bunch of random kiddies installing scripts on their computers that let them be used by a few older scriptkiddies to mass DDOS websites. They'll attack anyone who gives them press and makes their white middle class lives seem somehow relevant.

Seriously, you're giving "them" too much credit.

[hugolp]

So Anonymous are socialist?

Anonymous is not a single person or closed group with a defined ideology. Anonymous is just anyone that wants to be, well, anonymous. Anyone can publish anything under the anonymous banner. Next month sAnonymous could be for the Kochs, and then in 2 months against again.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yeah, fortunately any ass clown can step and claim to represent the group. What matters is how many follow them.


This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process,"

Does this clause really exist? - I missed it and no one is talking about it, except this person if it does. I would think it would be front page news by now if it was real.

This would be really, really BAD! it happened in OH and MD, at least, and util rates skyrocketed. There is nothing "free market" about this, it's about monopoly ownership and corporatism. Nothing more.

-t

[TheeJoeGlass]

That's ridiculous. You can read about the differences the Koch's have had with the true libertarians at the Mises Institute, but they aren't evil or trying to take stuff over. They certainly don't push an agenda of people depending on government.

These Anonymous guys seem to be able to do real economic damage to people. I am disappointed they're targeting rich people because dailyKOS says they're "bad people."

These hackers want to show their stuff? Bet they can't touch the trading algorithms at the Quantum Fund.

Over-rated maybe?

[QueenB4Liberty]

Yeah, fortunately any ass clown can step and claim to represent the group. What matters is how many follow them.



Does this clause really exist? - I missed it and no one is talking about it, except this person if it does. I would think it would be front page news by now if it was real.

This would be really, really BAD! it happened in OH and MD, at least, and util rates skyrocketed. There is nothing "free market" about this, it's about monopoly ownership and corporatism. Nothing more.

-t

I see. I figured as much.

[South Park Fan]

Yeah, fortunately any ass clown can step and claim to represent the group. What matters is how many follow them.



Does this clause really exist? - I missed it and no one is talking about it, except this person if it does. I would think it would be front page news by now if it was real.

This would be really, really BAD! it happened in OH and MD, at least, and util rates skyrocketed. There is nothing "free market" about this, it's about monopoly ownership and corporatism. Nothing more.

-t

It appears to be legit: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/krugman-explains-wisconsin-power-game.html
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

I don't see why the people on RPFs are getting so defensive of rent-seekers such as the Kochs. Just because their on the opposite side of the unions doesn't mean that they want capitalism. The 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' attitude doesn't apply here.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Disgusting - Wisconsin residents prepare to get shafted!

It's cold up there too!

Talk about cronyism. No bid, any price, exempt from regulations, etc. VOMIT!

[the_strand]

Hmm interesting.

[Kludge]

WHAT?! Anon wants to expose businessmen manipulating politicians to gain favors which result in unfair benefits to Koch Industries and put the consumers at an unfair disadvantage? DISGUSTING! They clearly are socialists.

[the_strand]

double post.

[FrankRep]

WHAT?! Anon wants to expose businessmen manipulating politicians to gain favors which result in unfair benefits to Koch Industries and put the consumers at an unfair disadvantage? DISGUSTING! They clearly are socialists.

Is there any proof of Koch Cronyism or just Speculation?

[tangent4ronpaul]

corporatist - business as usual, old boy network

[FrankRep]

corporatist - business as usual, old boy network

Is there any proof of Koch Cronyism or just Speculation?

[Kludge]

Is there any proof of Koch Cronyism or just Speculation?

As speculative as ""Governor Walker's union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process,"" is.

[the_strand]

Why don't they talk about libtards like Soros?

George Soros is the second largest shareholder of Monsanto.

Has anyone watched Food Inc?

Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and George Soros are Limousine Liberals and Mercedes Marxists who made tens of millions of dollars (billions in Soros' case) selling the "evils" of Capitalism while they rake in money. They're total Hypocrites.

anonymous = FAIL.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Is there any proof of Koch Cronyism or just Speculation?

It's clearly someone. May not be Koch, but something dirty is going on.

Reminds me of the speeding cams they are putting up around schools here "for the children s safety", and to raise revenue except it's no bid, the camera's are on 24/7 and the company putting them in getting 87 cents of every dollar in fines raised. :rolleyes:

[FrankRep]

As speculative as ""Governor Walker's union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process,"" is.

So selling off State Owned utility plants to private corporations is somehow anti-Capitalist and anti-Libertarian?

I'd like to see the exact wording in the bill. Do you have it?

[Kludge]

So selling off State Owned utility plants to private corporations is somehow anti-Capitalist and anti-Libertarian?
Specifically naming Koch Industries in a bill about selling off public utilities without a public bidding process or minimum price reeks of corporatism.

[FrankRep]

Specifically naming Koch Industries in a bill about selling off public utilities without a public bidding process or minimum price reeks of corporatism.

I'd like to see the exact wording in the bill. Do you have it?

[Flash]

Why don't they talk about libtards like Soros?

George Soros is the second largest shareholder of Monsanto.

Has anyone watched Food Inc?

Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and George Soros are Limousine Liberals and Mercedes Marxists who made tens of millions of dollars (billions in Soros' case) selling the "evils" of Capitalism while they rake in money. They're total Hypocrites.

anonymous = FAIL.


I wouldn't put Noam Chomsky in that list. He has some pretty principled views and isn't afraid to defend his beliefs or withhold criticism. He'll criticize both the progressive & conservative movements. I do think his political ideas are extremely odd (he wants to increase government power yet his ultimate goal is a global anarchic society) but he isn't a sell-out.

Michael Moore recognizes the problems with both parties but only chooses to criticize ONE party. What good will that do?

[Kludge]

I'd like to see the exact wording in the bill. Do you have it?

The section about specifically naming Koch was misleading. Koch Industries (Georgia-Pacific) isn't named, but I'd be interested in hearing the makeup of WI's utilities industry and if there are any other viable competitors who this bill has in mind.

... the Wisconsin Department of Administration “may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state.”

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf

[South Park Fan]

I'd like to see the exact wording in the bill. Do you have it?

I posted it above, and I will post it again: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...ower-game.html

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

Giving off government contracts to anyone besides the highest bidder is stealing from the taxpayer.

[kah13176]

Anonymous is simply a collective consciousness. Individuals may break off and join at any time. There may be several branches of Anonymous working in opposing directions simultaneously. Quite simply, anyone who posts on any sort of online message board without revealing their identities are considered part of Anonymous. For example, only a few individuals were actually involved in the Westboro Baptist Church stuff, yet they did so under the title. It is true that mainstream Anonymous causes property damage, but that doesn't mean you can't be part of the group whilst opposing such action. Analogously, everyone residing in America is an "American", yet we obviously do not all agree on politics, religion, or philosophy.

[FrankRep]

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf



___________________
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants.

(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the
department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may
contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without
solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best
interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or
certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to
purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is
considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification
of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).
________


Seriously, what's the big fuss about?? The state can sell the plants at any price they want based on the best interest of the state.


Good!

[South Park Fan]

___________________
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants.

(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the
department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may
contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without
solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best
interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or
certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to
purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is
considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification
of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).
________


Seriously, what's the big fuss about?? The state can sell the plants at any price they want based on the best interest of the state.


Good!

And of course that clause isn't deliberately vague and couldn't possibly be interpreted to mean whatever a government official might want.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Seriously, what's the big fuss about?? The state can sell the plants at any price they want based on the best interest of the state.

Good!

Think about what you are saying! The "best interest of the state" is all about tax dollars. It's where we get Eminent Domain. If the state gets more money to spend that's good. If the people they represent get screwed - well, that's too bad.

The state always knows how best to spend your money and use your property.

Bad!

-t

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Lol, Anonymous isn't part of any political spectrum.

It's just a bunch of random kiddies installing scripts on their computers that let them be used by a few older scriptkiddies to mass DDOS websites. They'll attack anyone who gives them press and makes their white middle class lives seem somehow relevant.

Seriously, you're giving "them" too much credit.

This.

Attacks on others' private property is disgusting. And some in the "liberty movement" here try to rationalize it. :mad:

[specsaregood]

And of course that clause isn't deliberately vague and couldn't possibly be interpreted to mean whatever a government official might want.

And not even an elected official at that.

[pcosmar]

This.

Attacks on others' private property is disgusting. And some in the "liberty movement" here try to rationalize it. :mad:

So has anyone verified this story? Or is this another false smear on "anonymous" like the fake WBC letter?

Is "anonymous" the new boogieman???

edit, Just peeked in, seems some (small group) of anons put this together.
I don't see a consensus. I wouldn't expect to see any concerted effort.

[angelatc]

___________________
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,
and power plants.

(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the
department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may
contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without
solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best
interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or
certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to
purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is
considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification
of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).
________


Seriously, what's the big fuss about?? The state can sell the plants at any price they want based on the best interest of the state.


Good!

It would be better to accept bids. This smacks of cronyism. But the left going into hysterics over the Koch Brothers (who haven't actually been offered a power plant - that's all wild speculation) while ignoring the looting that Buffet did just exemplifies why we can't get anywhere in this country.

[FrankRep]

It would be better to accept bids. This smacks of cronyism. But the left going into hysterics over the Koch Brothers (who haven't actually been offered a power plant - that's all wild speculation) while ignoring the looting that Buffet did just exemplifies why we can't get anywhere in this country.

The Koch Brothers have no interest.


State sale of heating plants questioned (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/116684534.html)


JS Online
Feb. 22, 2011


As I reported last week, the budget repair bill includes a provision that empowers the state Department of Administration to sell the plants – and the sale would not have to be reviewed by the state Public Service Commission.

The sale could take place with or without the solicitation of bids, according to an analysis of the bill by the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau. The Legislature's Joint Finance Committee last week amended the provision to require that a cost-benefit analysis be done prior to a sale, and that any plant sale be submitted to the Joint Finance Committee for its review. But the panel left the "no-bid" language unchanged.

But what company would want to buy the plants?

Some opponents of the Walker bill are positing that Koch Industries, a contributor to Walker’s campaign, is a potential buyer of the plants.

But Koch denies any interest in buying the facilities. Koch operates paper mills, pipelines and fuel terminals in Wisconsin and employs 3,000 state residents.



“We have no interest in purchasing any of the state-owned power plants in Wisconsin and any allegations to the contrary are completely false,” Philip Ellender of Koch said in a statement Tuesday. “This is a dispute between public-sector unions and democratically elected officials over how best to serve the public interest. Unfortunately, there are those who would prefer to portray it as something else entirely.


In an interview, a Wisconsin utility leader and the head of a utility watchdog group questioned what value a private company might see in buying the plants.



“We would like the Joint Finance Committee to take a good look at the cost benefit analysis,” said David Benforado, who runs Municipal Electric Utilities of Wisconsin. “At first blush, these plants are probably all fully depreciated plants, and that’s not the time to sell. We would be very interested to make sure that it makes economic sense for the state.”


Charlie Higley, executive director of the Wisconsin Citizens’ Utility Board, agreed.



“They’d be lucky to get one bid,” Higley said.


Higley and the Madison-based Customers First coalition have written to Walker asking that the sale of heating plants be stripped out of the budget repair bill and be debated as a standalone bill.

“I don’t think anything should be sold no-bid and I don’t like the provision of this escaping any kind of review by the Public Service Commission and the sale automatically being considered ‘in the public interest,’ ” Higley said.


Full Story:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/116684534.html

[April1775]

These kids today, they can't tell corporatism from capitalism. I blame public schools.

[RyanRSheets]

So Anonymous are socialist?

Is there something wrong with that? I'm not sure I understand what the clause they are angry at is trying to say. So publicly (government) owned utility plants can be bought out by private bidders? Is that bad?

My question would be whether or not the privatization will also open up the market to competition. If they are just buying the monopoly, "privatizing" might be even worse.

[TexanRudeBoy]

So Anonymous are socialist?

Is there something wrong with that? I'm not sure I understand what the clause they are angry at is trying to say. So publicly (government) owned utility plants can be bought out by private bidders? Is that bad?

No it states they can be sold to private companies, without bids, at any cost. Its simply more crony capitalism.

[One Last Battle!]

Did some investigating. This doesn't have support of enough mainstream Anons to be considered a proper Anonymous operation. Yeah, there are plenty of silly socialists (especially Zeitgeisters) who are anonymous, but I don't see this getting the same effort as, say, the support of the North African revolutions or wikileaks. This is just a side job by a smaller group, a red herring so to speak. Remember, anyone and his dog can start his own operation and release a press release to it, doesn't mean that he represents anyone besides himself.

[Chieppa1]

I dropped "them" a line on Twitter. Socialists "fighting the man" is pretty much the cutest thing ever. Like Tom Morrello. If he only knew how stupid he sounds.

[Chieppa1]

#Anonymous guards the Madison Capitol: http://twitpic.com/44llys #Anonymous #OpWisconsin #OpEmmaa

[TheeJoeGlass]

As speculative as ""Governor Walker's union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process,"" is.

Why not include the other part of this budget that requires 2/3 majority to raise taxes in Wisconsin. That is pretty sweet!

[dannno]

So apparently the Koch brothers give a bunch of money to CATO, who gives a bunch of money to NPR.. I still don't see what the progressives hate about these guys so much.

[Slutter McGee]

Why can't we just call them /B/. Then people can go to the site and see what these asshats are really about.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

[TexanRudeBoy]

Why not include the other part of this budget that requires 2/3 majority to raise taxes in Wisconsin. That is pretty sweet!

Good idea, but much like similar measures in Cali it won't end well. They don't need 2/3 majority to raise spending........

[One Last Battle!]

Why can't we just call them /B/. Then people can go to the site and see what these asshats are really about.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

/b/ =/= anonymous

[brandon]

This "anonymous" thing is really getting pretty lame. I like them in the old days when they were just a collective of internet trolls seeking lulz.

[BenIsForRon]

Koch brothers are corporatists, they deserve whatever anonymous dishes to them.

[FrankRep]

Koch brothers are corporatists, they deserve whatever anonymous dishes to them.

The Koch brothers are free market capitalists.

[lester1/2jr]

oh gee that wil be the end of the tea party! all it is is a sercret Koch astrotruf after all.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

If anonymous are anonymous how do we know it's anonymous? :confused::confused::confused:

[madfoot]

They're anarchists. Hence the Guy Fawkes worship and whatnot. They're not totally unprincipled. Some are AnCaps, some are AnSocs, but broadly, they're all anti-authority.

If you notice, they haven't gone after Ron Paul, and aren't going to. Kock brothers aren't doing us any favors.

[Justinjj1]

Koch brothers are corporatists, they deserve whatever anonymous dishes to them.


This

[LibertyIn08]

This

Charles Koch is a supporter of Austrian Economics, including GMU's Austrian econ program.

Just because Lew burned bridges with them and they don't support the Institute proper does not make them corporatists.

Oh, and Ludwig von Mises Institute =/= Austrian School.

[madfoot]

Actually they're the very definition of corporatists. They're our corporatists, but they're still corporatists.

[ds21089]

Actually they're the very definition of corporatists. They're our corporatists, but they're still corporatists.

They're on our side? Seems they support Cain. Is Cain really on our side? Seems he's more on the corrupt part of the Tea Party.

[LibertyIn08]

Actually they're the very definition of corporatists. They're our corporatists, but they're still corporatists.

Please explain. If you're going to go around disparaging them you might as well bring along your evidence.


They're on our side? Seems they support Cain. Is Cain really on our side? Seems he's more on the corrupt part of the Tea Party.

I've not received any indication that either brother is a die-hard Cain supporter. Was this listed somewhere?

[madfoot]

Please explain. If you're going to go around disparaging them you might as well bring along your evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBD209nYHjM

[ds21089]

I've not received any indication that either brother is a die-hard Cain supporter. Was this listed somewhere?

Well I'm basing that off http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?282022-The-Koch-Bros.-Love-Herman-Cain-amp-Hate-Ron-Paul the link there. For Cain to get so many in-house votes in that tea party summit, I think either he or a combination of himself and Koch Bros probably bussed a bunch of people in to vote. I dont understand why ANYONE would vote Cain over Paul..it just makes zero sense to me. Maybe I'm missing a popular stance he has that relates to people which Paul doesn't have..?

Also..

In Alaska Koch Industries asked Governor Palin to bailout their failing oil refinery.

http://www.andrewhalcro.com/permafro...opus_in_alaska

Okay so they need government help to pull some oil out of the ground. What about paper?

In 2006, Koch Industries acquired pulp and paper giant Georgia-Pacific for a $21-billion cash payment, allowing the Koch brothers to tap into a whole new area of government largesse: the ability to log public forests for private gain and have taxpayers cover the operating costs. Not only can companies like Georgia-Pacific, which is the world's leading manufacturer of paper products, exploit a publicly-shared resource without sharing the profits, but the U.S. Forestry Service subsidizes them to do it by forcing taxpayers to fund the construction of new logging roads that provide loggers with access to virgin growth—a nice welfare arrangement for the industry that costs taxpayers over $1 billion a year.

"Private logging of America's National Forests is a heavily subsidized form of corporate welfare," wrote Scott Silver, founder and executive director of Wild Wilderness, a conservation watchdog, at the time of the Georgia-Pacific's sale to Koch Industries. "Logging companies such as Georgia-Pacific strip lands bare, destroy vast acreages and pay only a small fee to the federal government in proportion to what they take from the public."
http://www.observer.com/2010/slideshow/131739/logging

Well isn't that special. They get the equivalent of 1/3 of NASA's budget each year in perks for their paper mills. Ok so they are not so good when it comes to welfare. What about property rights?

Oh looky they got their pipeline built by using government force via eminent domain to steal people's property. That is really principled of them. How nice. I guess that was okay because those people were just slaves.

But not all property rights are created equal. Koch Industries oil pipeline recently built in Minnesota shows that Charles Koch does not see an is anything wrong with the government confiscating private property, as long as he stands to make a profit. Completed in 2008, the 304-mile line now carries crude oil from the Canadian border to a Koch Industries refinery near the Twin Cities area via a two-foot-wide pipe. Company PR execs pitched the pipeline as a public benefit project, as it would increase Minnesota's gasoline supply. But the 1,000-plus landowners who were forced to handover their private property so that Koch Industries could run its pipeline didn't quite see it that way. "People's rights were violated, and they never got their due process," a farmer whose fields were going to be cut in two by the pipeline told a newspaper in 2007. "It's wrong. People's property is one of the most important things to their livelihood."

- I copied this from EndDaFed on the other thread.

[LibertyIn08]

Well I'm basing that off http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?282022-The-Koch-Bros.-Love-Herman-Cain-amp-Hate-Ron-Paul the link there. For Cain to get so many in-house votes in that tea party summit, I think either he or a combination of himself and Koch Bros probably bussed a bunch of people in to vote. I dont understand why ANYONE would vote Cain over Paul..it just makes zero sense to me. Maybe I'm missing a popular stance he has that relates to people which Paul doesn't have..?

Also..

In Alaska Koch Industries asked Governor Palin to bailout their failing oil refinery.

http://www.andrewhalcro.com/permafro...opus_in_alaska

Okay so they need government help to pull some oil out of the ground. What about paper?

In 2006, Koch Industries acquired pulp and paper giant Georgia-Pacific for a $21-billion cash payment, allowing the Koch brothers to tap into a whole new area of government largesse: the ability to log public forests for private gain and have taxpayers cover the operating costs. Not only can companies like Georgia-Pacific, which is the world's leading manufacturer of paper products, exploit a publicly-shared resource without sharing the profits, but the U.S. Forestry Service subsidizes them to do it by forcing taxpayers to fund the construction of new logging roads that provide loggers with access to virgin growth—a nice welfare arrangement for the industry that costs taxpayers over $1 billion a year.

"Private logging of America's National Forests is a heavily subsidized form of corporate welfare," wrote Scott Silver, founder and executive director of Wild Wilderness, a conservation watchdog, at the time of the Georgia-Pacific's sale to Koch Industries. "Logging companies such as Georgia-Pacific strip lands bare, destroy vast acreages and pay only a small fee to the federal government in proportion to what they take from the public."
http://www.observer.com/2010/slideshow/131739/logging

Well isn't that special. They get the equivalent of 1/3 of NASA's budget each year in perks for their paper mills. Ok so they are not so good when it comes to welfare. What about property rights?

Oh looky they got their pipeline built by using government force via eminent domain to steal people's property. That is really principled of them. How nice. I guess that was okay because those people were just slaves.

But not all property rights are created equal. Koch Industries oil pipeline recently built in Minnesota shows that Charles Koch does not see an is anything wrong with the government confiscating private property, as long as he stands to make a profit. Completed in 2008, the 304-mile line now carries crude oil from the Canadian border to a Koch Industries refinery near the Twin Cities area via a two-foot-wide pipe. Company PR execs pitched the pipeline as a public benefit project, as it would increase Minnesota's gasoline supply. But the 1,000-plus landowners who were forced to handover their private property so that Koch Industries could run its pipeline didn't quite see it that way. "People's rights were violated, and they never got their due process," a farmer whose fields were going to be cut in two by the pipeline told a newspaper in 2007. "It's wrong. People's property is one of the most important things to their livelihood."

- I copied this from EndDaFed on the other thread.

Solid. Thanks.

Still not convinced on Cain but the rest is all useful.