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FrankRep
02-27-2011, 08:54 AM
Splitting Arizona: Support grows for 51st state (http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/02/splitting-arizona-support-grows-for-51st-state/)


Tenth Amendment Center (http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/)
February 27th, 2011


Outraged over efforts in the Arizona State Legislature to nullify (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/content/tncms/live/eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/article_ba355a26-30b9-11e0-b1f5-001cc4c03286.html) unconstitutional federal commands and prohibitions, a growing number of Pima County residents and even a few of their state legislators are proposing that they be permitted to break away from the rest of Arizona in order to form their own state (http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=14137897). If they are eventually successful, Tucson would almost certainly be it’s capital city.

I’ve been saying that this is what needs to happen for more than a decade. Perhaps a majority of the people who reside in what is known to be the more left-leaning, southern parts of our state, have long been fed up with the north’s social and fiscal conservatism. Now they are completely outraged over our movement to nullify (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUofuWtOMI) every last federal act that a majority of our state legislators deem to be unconstitutional, but which they consider to be perfectly within the sphere of legitimate federal power.

A similar situation (http://www.nullifynow.com/2011/01/the-untold-history-of-nullification-resisting-slavery/) existed in the late 1850′s, when southern outrage reached a crescendo over northern states’ successful nullification of the Fugitive Slave Act. The south, for the most part, thought that the act was perfectly constitutional, whereas states’ like Wisconsin maintained that the act allowed for what amounted to illegal acts of kidnapping, since those accused of being fugitive slaves were denied a jury trial and other legal protections guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. Considering it to be nothing more than an illegitimate act of usurpation (in spite of the fact that it was upheld by the Supreme Court in Abelman v. Booth (http://www.virginialawreview.org/content/pdfs/93/1315.pdf)), Wisconsin’s people, backed by their state government officials, successfully resisted (http://forum-network.org/lecture/joshua-glover-freeing-fugitive-slave-act) the federal government’s attempts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act within the borders of their state.

This was an important factor in several southern states’ decisions to secede from the Union. The question of leaving the Union is not explicitly addressed by the Constitution, probably because it was just assumed by those who ratified the Constitution to be an inherit power retained by every sovereign state. In today’s situation involving Pima county however, the south (of Arizona), does not wish to withdraw itself from the compact among the states, but simply wants to be re-admitted to the Union as a new one. Is there anything irrational, or wrong with that? I don’t think so. In fact, I think every Arizonan and every American should support their movement and help to foster similar movements, wherever disharmony and irreconcilable differences exist around the country.

There is a very specific, constitutional process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state#Admission_into_the_union) by which the people who inhabit a portion of an existing state may petition their state and federal government to form a state of their own, after which they may be admitted to the Union on equal footing with every other state. Sure it would create some problems, but it would solve a lot more problems. The entire world has been undergoing a process of political decentralization for many years. Now, thankfully, it’s looking like the United States is no exception. Like any political solution, it won’t be perfect or trouble free, but in my humble opinion, the solution to problems created by decentralization, is almost always more decentralization.


SOURCE:
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/02/splitting-arizona-support-grows-for-51st-state/


_______


http://www.ohiofreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cover_null_lg-195x300.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596981490?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1596981490)

Nullification: How to Resist Federal Tyranny in the 21st Century (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596981490?ie=UTF8&tag=libert0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1596981490)
- Thomas E. Woods Jr


State vs. Federal: The Nullification Movement (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/2957-state-vs-federal-the-nullification-movement)

Because the Supreme Court has for many years interpreted the Constitution in a manner to further empower the federal government, states are moving to take power back from the feds through a growing and vibrant nullification movement. By Patrick Krey

Nullification in a Nutshell (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/history/american/2971-nullification-in-a-nutshell)

The modern-day nullification movement has as its genesis the principle of federalism and the writings of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, in particularly the famous Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798, supporting the right of states to nullify unconstitutional federal usurpations. By Patrick Krey

Stary Hickory
02-27-2011, 09:14 AM
I think this is fine, it means taking government to a closer level. Which will be more responsive and just, if they want to break and form a 51st state then they by default support states rights and secession.

Isnt that interesting.

pcosmar
02-27-2011, 09:33 AM
52 state. :p

The UP would like to split from lower Michigan too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_%28proposed_U.S._state%29

http://www.copperconnection.com/images/bumpersticker-sayya.jpg

MelissaWV
02-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Michigan makes more sense from a geographic standpoint.

I wish Florida would split. North Florida is nothing like Central and South.

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-27-2011, 09:56 AM
Michigan makes more sense from a geographic standpoint.

I wish Florida would split. North Florida is nothing like Central and South.

Florida should really be three seperate entities. North, Central, and South Florida are nothing alike. Southern Florida is the worst. Broward, Miami, and Dade County can go float into the ocean for all I care.

I'm ready to bring the Bonnie Blue back out :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_West_Florida#Short-lived_Republic

pcosmar
02-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Florida should really be three seperate entities. North, Central, and South Florida are nothing alike. Southern Florida is the worst. Broward, Miami, and Dade County can go float into the ocean for all I care.

I'm ready to bring the Bonnie Blue back out :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_West_Florida#Short-lived_Republic

Monroe County already did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Conchrepublic.svg/800px-Conchrepublic.svg.png

I happen to carry citizenship there.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2228/2405640893_b642e6ba51_b.jpg

Johnnybags
02-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Cow Hampshire should split. The tax dodging Mass liberals took over the Southern Border and the rest is Live Free or die.

nobody's_hero
02-27-2011, 10:44 AM
I think this is fine, it means taking government to a closer level. Which will be more responsive and just, if they want to break and form a 51st state then they by default support states rights and secession.

Isnt that interesting.

yeah, exactly. Maybe our strategy should be to get big government supporters so angry with us that they split off and form their own governments. We'll have to pretend like it really hurt our feelings though, so that they think they've really 'stuck it to us.'

Example:
"Aw man, Massachusetts decided to leave us. I hate that you all feel that way about us, but there's nothing we can do now that you've left the union. I guess we really blew it."

Icymudpuppy
02-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Would love to see NW Washington state split from the rest of the state. Seattle, Everett, Olympia, and Tacoma can leave, and Spokane, Tri-Cities, and Vancouver can be the other part.

S.Shorland
02-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Hopefully the N.Arizonans would ask for a corridor to Mexico?

Stary Hickory
02-27-2011, 12:16 PM
yeah, exactly. Maybe our strategy should be to get big government supporters so angry with us that they split off and form their own governments. We'll have to pretend like it really hurt our feelings though, so that they think they've really 'stuck it to us.'

Example:
"Aw man, Massachusetts decided to leave us. I hate that you all feel that way about us, but there's nothing we can do now that you've left the union. I guess we really blew it."

I wish we could convince the District of Columbia to break off and form it's own state, or country even! Imagine what they could accomplish without the rest of the country dragging Washington DC down!

Maximus
02-27-2011, 12:35 PM
I wish we could convince the District of Columbia to break off and form it's own state, or country even! Imagine what they could accomplish without the rest of the country dragging Washington DC down!

I'd support it becoming a country, I want nothing to do with two senators coming from there.

Brian4Liberty
02-27-2011, 01:04 PM
Not familiar with Arizona demographics. Is this an ethnic split?

Also it would be ridiculus to split smaller States until Texas and California are broken into several States each.

FrankRep
02-27-2011, 01:07 PM
Not familiar with Arizona demographics. Is this an ethnic split?

The anti-Nullification part of Arizona wants to break away. Not sure of the demographics, but I'm guessing its the Democrat part.

libertybrewcity
02-27-2011, 01:30 PM
If everyone had their split there would be 1000 states! I am a supporter of allowing Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. I wouldn't mind the UP splitting off and I think that California should split into a northern and southern state with San Francisco in the south. Centrifugal forces will all exist but splitting states along party lines could lead to conflict in the future. Our nation is polarized enough as it is! That is not to say that some parts of states are definitely being abused by other parts and deserve their own state.

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-27-2011, 01:33 PM
If everyone had their split there would be 1000 states! I am a supporter of allowing Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. I wouldn't mind the UP splitting off and I think that California should split into a northern and southern state with San Francisco in the south. Centrifugal forces will all exist but splitting states along party lines could lead to conflict in the future. Our nation is polarized enough as it is! That is not to say that some parts of states are definitely being abused by other parts and deserve their own state.

Who said that a newly formed independent state would necessarily have to be annexed by the USG? I am all for more than 1000 states! Why should the residents who decidely do not want to live under blue, red, yellow, green, or anything in between be forced to do so? What is so wrong with City-States? Are you saying that forcing two opposing sides to be co-joined is less conflicting then allowing each to govern themselves? Srs?

Orgoonian
02-27-2011, 01:35 PM
In 1941 Southern Oregon,and Northern California wanted to form their own state called Jefferson.
WW2 stopped it from happening.
There is still a movement going on for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKyHjZV4Y6A&NR=1&feature=fvwp

MelissaWV
02-27-2011, 01:51 PM
If everyone had their split there would be 1000 states! I am a supporter of allowing Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. I wouldn't mind the UP splitting off and I think that California should split into a northern and southern state with San Francisco in the south. Centrifugal forces will all exist but splitting states along party lines could lead to conflict in the future. Our nation is polarized enough as it is! That is not to say that some parts of states are definitely being abused by other parts and deserve their own state.

I don't think there would be 1000 states, no. There are some segments of neighboring states that would likely join and become larger.

doodle
02-27-2011, 01:58 PM
So ironical.

4-5 years ago we were plotting splitting of Iraq...today splitting is still a topic but it is of America.

Freedom has never backfired like this before in history of freedom.

MelissaWV
02-27-2011, 02:05 PM
So ironical.

4-5 years ago we were plotting splitting of Iraq...today splitting is still a topic but it is of America.

Freedom has never backfired like this before in history of freedom.

Huh? Have you been to any of the places we're talking about?

The differences are many, and "states" were historically formed by a combination of shared economic interest and geographic markers. North Florida has more in common with Southern Georgia than it will ever have with the likes of Miami and Orlando. Detroit? No one wants Detroit :p California's peaceful more "country" areas really don't have much in common with LA/Hollywood and the like. Texas... don't get me started on Texas.

Many of our states suffer from being defined by their big cities at the expense of people who choose not to live there.

As far as freedom "backfiring," I fail to see how this would backfire in any way. States have split before, and states have proposed joining before. How it's handled by the administration and citizenry at the time is what defines its success or failure.

majinkoola
02-27-2011, 02:17 PM
Not familiar with Arizona demographics. Is this an ethnic split?

Also it would be ridiculus to split smaller States until Texas and California are broken into several States each.

The northern part is more conservative for a few reasons.

There is a large Mormon contingent in Arizona, who almost entirely live in Maricopa County or farther north. They tend to be heavily conservative. There are also a lot of retirement communities, and older people tend to be conservative. Although there are a lot of Hispanics in Maricopa County, the percentages are higher in the south, and they tend to be more liberal.

Being from Maricopa County, I'd be fine with it. And it would make the Arizona-Arizona State rivalry absolutely insane.

pcosmar
02-27-2011, 02:27 PM
1000 states?
Nothing wrong with that, but unnecessary. The problem is centralization.
if we were to get back to the idea of local government, (and a lot less of it) these issues would go away.

Using Michigan as an example (and the oldest or those mentioned) The Upper Peninsula is vastly different from the Lower and has a lower population.
We have no chance whatsoever of out voting even one of the several large cities, so laws made in the south are imposed on the UP.
If it was more localized, communities or counties could have more local control over resources and regulation (or lack thereof).

libertybrewcity
02-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Huh? Have you been to any of the places we're talking about?

The differences are many, and "states" were historically formed by a combination of shared economic interest and geographic markers. North Florida has more in common with Southern Georgia than it will ever have with the likes of Miami and Orlando. Detroit? No one wants Detroit :p California's peaceful more "country" areas really don't have much in common with LA/Hollywood and the like. Texas... don't get me started on Texas.

Many of our states suffer from being defined by their big cities at the expense of people who choose not to live there.

As far as freedom "backfiring," I fail to see how this would backfire in any way. States have split before, and states have proposed joining before. How it's handled by the administration and citizenry at the time is what defines its success or failure.

How would you suggest splitting Texas?

nobody's_hero
02-27-2011, 08:21 PM
I wish we could convince the District of Columbia to break off and form it's own state, or country even! Imagine what they could accomplish without the rest of the country dragging Washington DC down!

Yeah, lol. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I mean, I'd hate to see them go, but I'd respect their decision.

Fredom101
02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
Cow Hampshire should split. The tax dodging Mass liberals took over the Southern Border and the rest is Live Free or die.

Ha, if only. The rest is Live Free or vote for John McCain.

TCE
02-27-2011, 09:05 PM
The major cities, New York City, Chicago, L.A. would work nicely as their own entities. NYC is nothing like the more conservative, rural parts of New York State. Speaking as a Chicagoan, 95% of the laws in this state or more are because of are aimed toward the city of Chicago, they aren't needed for the rest of us. All of our problems could be solved if the rest of the state, or at least Forgottonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgottonia) would secede. Seriously, Illinois would be awesome without Chicago legally attached to it.

james1906
02-27-2011, 09:19 PM
How would you suggest splitting Texas?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_j9oDqG2zBGE/SgyBgNpjBiI/AAAAAAAACmY/ury6mjwhQe4/s320/texas+five+states.JPG

Something like this

heavenlyboy34
02-27-2011, 09:37 PM
Michigan makes more sense from a geographic standpoint.

I wish Florida would split. North Florida is nothing like Central and South.

FWIW, the same could be said of Arizona. The south is mostly low elevation, arid desert and the north is mountainous and feels much like Colorado.

Flash
02-27-2011, 09:39 PM
I would be in favor of increasing the number of States. I would assume an increase in Senators would lead to less corruption, as the the establishment would have a harder time preventing more liberty-oriented politicians from being elected. As crazy as it sounds, smaller states with a lower population would allow for Senatorial candidates to actually meet with their constituents and explain their positions in person. One of the reasons Rand Paul won was due to his ability to MEET with a large amount of the voters in person. How can this be done in a state like Texas that has 20 million or so people in it?

A huge opportunity would arise for libertarians as they could run in conservative areas and promote ending the Department of Education, reforming social security, cutting the spending, lowering taxes, etc... without the fear of not being re-elected. Obviously it would result in an increased amount of radical right-wingers being elected.

I would suggest supporting the Thirty Thousand movement, it's goal being to increase the number of representatives in the House. This would allow greater representation for more fringe political ideologies, perhaps a third or fourth party in the Congress, and would make it much more difficult for bad laws to be passed.


http://www.thirty-thousand.org/

Stary Hickory
02-27-2011, 10:12 PM
We need to start a Washington DC secession movement. Help free DC from the backwardness of the USA. We need a website www.liberateDC.com.