As Ron Paul's support grows, we will see more and more normal people here

[erowe1]

The people who have spent the past 3-4 years as regulars here are not normal. We hold out-of-the-mainstream views, some in different ways than others. Some are anarchists, some are theocrats, some are both at the same time. Few, if any, are representative of the typical GOP primary voter.

As Ron Paul's support grows over the next year, up to that crucial level of support that it will take to win the Republican primaries (let's say, ballpark 25%), we will become outnumbered by normal people, people who think that public school is a public good, along with most of what they've gotten used to government doing. They will be people who like most of what Ron Paul says, but wish he didn't have those views on the Federal Reserve. They will be people who think Shawn Hannity is a great American, who voted for McCain and don't regret it, and who came here because they listened to what Ron Paul had to say and thought to themselves, "He sounds more like Ronald Reagan than the others do."

We want this to happen. We need this to happen. As it does happen, even while we're showing them other ways of looking at things, we need to do that in ways that make them feel entirely at home here. Be gentle. Remember most of us were like them not long ago. Don't suggest to them that they might find the establishment candidates more to their liking, because they might take you up on that.

[sailingaway]

It isn't that bad. Just pretend you are in Rand's forum during the midterms.:p

[Bruno]

+ rep

It seems much tamer here over the last few years, actually, but good to keep in mind.

[brandon]

Good post. And hopefully in 1.5 years when the dust settles, and the summer patriots go on their way again, we have a lot more "regulars" here to keep us company.

[civusamericanus]

Damn and I've been trying to be normal my entire life, just a regular Joe, small business owner, husband father, blending in, not causing any waves, I'd even help you pick up the apples if your cart got knocked over... But I support Ron Paul and support him on nearly all the issues, and I'm the one who isn't normal?

I think people who have been hard core Ron Paul supporters for any decent length of time, will need to act as psychological counselors to recently transformed supporters.

Recently transformed Ron Paul supporter: You mean us being over there, makes them want to attack us here?
Ron Paul veteran: Yes! and it's bankrupting the country if we don't stop it!

[MelissaWV]

I would say that it's not necessarily a matter of our more "kooky" or outspoken members zipping up or changing their ways, but more a call for those who can keep a level head and discuss issues in ways that appeal to the masses to stand up and be more vocal.

There are a lot of smart, funny, logical, active folks on here. They just sometimes get drowned out by the very vocal minority. That minority shifts around, too; the people who seem almost akin to trolls on one issue might be our greatest spokespeople on others. "Kill the military" one day, "End the Fed" the next, and on the third day posting semi-nude girlie pics. This is America in a nutshell, anyhow. We have very few people who are absolutely crazy and obnoxious and illogical.


Damn and I've been trying to be normal my entire life, just a regular Joe, small business owner, husband father, blending in, not causing any waves, I'd even help you pick up the apples if your cart got knocked over... But I support Ron Paul and support him on nearly all the issues, and I'm the one who isn't normal?

Your views are not "normal" in the public scheme of things. I'm not so sure most of your views are really abnormal, but as far as the people who vote, people who're most vocal, and the media... you know you're an outlier. I do agree with your characterization of us as having to help people understand the realizations they're beginning to have. "I told you so" doesn't sound as good as "Yes, you're not the first to feel that way. Let me show you some videos/websites you can look at in your spare time; this has been going on for a long time."

[Bergie Bergeron]

sofia.

'nuff said.

[heavenlyboy34]

normal is overrated.

[Kotin]

sofia.

'nuff said.

yuh

[sparebulb]

In reference to the original post:

Yes, I agree. Let's embark on that program of "Peace through Surrender" or "Unity through Silence".

Then we can change this to the Sarah Palin Forums or the Huckabee Forums.

I think that I will continue to be me.

[Grubb556]

I think a lot of people are closet Ron Paul supporters and would actually agree him, except for the fact that mainstream media constantly ostracizes people like Paul.

[pcosmar]

Define "Normal".

[pcosmar]

I can't wait for Ron to announce. I would love to see some of the old timers back posting.

[erowe1]

In reference to the original post:

Yes, I agree. Let's embark on that program of "Peace through Surrender" or "Unity through Silence".

Then we can change this to the Sarah Palin Forums or the Huckabee Forums.

I think that I will continue to be me.

I don't think we have to go that far. But if a good percentage of Palin and Huckabee supporters found that they were more at home with RP than they are with those two, or if either of those two didn't run and some of their supporters saw RP as a second choice, I hope we'd be purposeful in supporting their conclusion that Ron Paul is the best candidate for people with their views, and not go out of our ways to convince them he isn't.

[MelissaWV]

I can't wait for Ron to announce. I would love to see some of the old timers back posting.

I'm not sure they'll come back, but I would love it (in most cases).

[specsaregood]

Some are anarchists, some are theocrats, some are both at the same time. Few, if any, are representative of the typical GOP primary voter.


...some are just assholes.

/me puts mirror away.

[erowe1]

FWIW, I didn't mean to disparage any of my fellow kooks here. The train of thought that led me to post the OP was reflecting on my recent debates here with people who support Social Security on the one hand and who disagree with RP about DOMA on the other hand, and trying to resist the urge to tell them all to take hikes.

[teacherone]

Users active in the past 24 hours
7598 Users have visited the forum. 731 members and 6867 guests

hopefully one or two of those were "normal".

[MelissaWV]

FWIW, I didn't mean to disparage any of my fellow kooks here. The train of thought that led me to post the OP was reflecting on my recent debates here with people who support Social Security on the one hand and who disagree with RP about DOMA on the other hand, and trying to resist the urge to tell them all to take hikes.

I understood your intent, I think, and I stand by my "solution" to it :)

We need to keep our "kooks" and our stubborn, ornery folks and our housewives and our college paranoids and our old cranky farmers... in short, most folks should stick around. We just also need some folks to reach out to the newbies who come in with a twisted idea or two, and set them straight kindly and logically before the rest of the thousands close in and start calling them a troll.

[pcosmar]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image.php?u=740&dateline=1200040610

I miss normal.
;)

[erowe1]

Define "Normal".

Let's not say "normal." Let's say people whose level of agreement with Ron Paul on his overall platform is lower than it is for most of us, and whose level of comfort with establishment politicians is higher than most of us.

But really, the same principle applies to people of any stripe (including the facial flag variety). When new libertarians come here because RP is the most libertarian candidate but they don't like this or that position he has, the principle's the same. And we'll see more of those people too.

[MelissaCato]

I think your wrong about new normal people supporting the Federal Reserve (once told the truth). Most the new normal people I discuss the issue with all don't even believe somone wants to end the fed.
For example: (in my area) normal people from cuban and puerto rico all think the Federal Reserve is abranch of the government, soo as soon as I mention ending the federal reserve they auto think it's anti government and can never be accomlished. It's like shock and awe for these people to learn the truth and knowing there's a Ron Paul. This is what I've noticed. I dunno if it's the language difference or their schooling behind it ... I've noticed these are the people that pay the most attention, ask the most questions in a group setting. These are also the people who borrow all my RP books.
It's no wonder, why the MSM ignored RP for 30 years. They not only decieved Americans here, they decieved everyone coming here.

[ronpaulhawaii]

the typical GOP primary voter...

http://s.azcentral.com/home/File-/picture/38966/1/0

Her name is Francine...

[erowe1]

I think your wrong about new normal people supporting the Federal Reserve (once told the truth). Most the new normal people I discuss the issue with all don't even believe somone wants to end the fed.
For example: (in my area) normal people from cuban and puerto rico all think the Federal Reserve is abranch of the government, soo as soon as I mention ending the federal reserve they auto think it's anti government and can never be accomlished. It's like shock and awe for these people to learn the truth and knowing there's a Ron Paul. This is what I've noticed. I dunno if it's the language difference or their schooling behind it ... I've noticed these are the people that pay the most attention, ask the most questions in a group setting. These are also the people who borrow all my RP books.
It's no wonder, why the MSM ignored RP for 30 years. They not only decieved Americans here, they decieved everyone coming here.

I definitely think we need to take the opportunity we have to bring people around about the Federal Reserve. But for a lot of potential Ron Paul supporters, that won't be the issue that brings them in, especially as our numbers grow.

[pcosmar]

I am fully ready to discuss both positions and principals, and to educate those that don't understand.
I am less able to compromise on those or tolerate views that are entirely contrary. I welcome new folks that are either interested or curious, but not so much those that come to push alternate positions, or promote contrary candidates.

I'm long over that, and the time is short.

[low preference guy]

I think one practical rule the OP is suggesting is this:

-Do not say "You oppose legalizing drunk driving? Why don't you go to Huckabee forums?!?!?!?!!!!!". It's better just not to say anything and let more patient members argue the most controversial positions.

Alternatively, the forum could become a lot less about debating issues and more about grassroots planning to support Dr. Paul. And even that will only be temporary, just between the time Ron Paul announces his candidacy and wins the Republican primary. It even crossed my mind the thought of admins sending a suggestion to all members after Dr. Paul announces, to remind everyone that the foremost objective of RPF is to elect Dr. Paul, not debate every aspect of libertarianism.

[MelissaCato]

I definitely think we need to take the opportunity we have to bring people around about the Federal Reserve. But for a lot of potential Ron Paul supporters, that won't be the issue that brings them in, especially as our numbers grow.

From my point of view it is. Because the people I speak uptop ALL agree the wars NEED to end. It's all linked to the FED. I just wish RP's books were in different languages .. because that would help me help these people more fluently.

[trey4sports]

The people who have spent the past 3-4 years as regulars here are not normal. We hold out-of-the-mainstream views, some in different ways than others. Some are anarchists, some are theocrats, some are both at the same time. Few, if any, are representative of the typical GOP primary voter.

As Ron Paul's support grows over the next year, up to that crucial level of support that it will take to win the Republican primaries (let's say, ballpark 25%), we will become outnumbered by normal people, people who think that public school is a public good, along with most of what they've gotten used to government doing. They will be people who like most of what Ron Paul says, but wish he didn't have those views on the Federal Reserve. They will be people who think Shawn Hannity is a great American, who voted for McCain and don't regret it, and who came here because they listened to what Ron Paul had to say and thought to themselves, "He sounds more like Ronald Reagan than the others do."

We want this to happen. We need this to happen. As it does happen, even while we're showing them other ways of looking at things, we need to do that in ways that make them feel entirely at home here. Be gentle. Remember most of us were like them not long ago. Don't suggest to them that they might find the establishment candidates more to their liking, because they might take you up on that.





great post man, and I totally agree. While we should never back down from our views we should always use logic and never FORCE our views upon someone. I've found that you can never yell loud enough or be condescending enough to change someones opinion. You can, however, persuade them with logic and facts.

[Agorism]

Just think Ron Paul is used to getting elected in his district among average republicans. However, now days when he gives a speech those average republicans are gone, and everyone in the front rows are Paul partisans so he can say whatever message he wants.

[speciallyblend]

I'm NORML

[BlackTerrel]

Maybe. I also think for the most part "normal people" don't post on internet forums. None of my friends do - at least that I know of.

Hannity gets 13 million listeners a day. How many people post on Hannity Forums? 13 thousand? 0.1%

[MelissaWV]

Maybe. I also think for the most part "normal people" don't post on internet forums. None of my friends do - at least that I know of.

Hannity gets 13 million listeners a day. How many people post on Hannity Forums? 13 thousand? 0.1%

Lots of Hannity people post elsewhere on the internet, though.

Those same people who are obsessed with Facebook-Twitter-Whatever will call you pathetic for spending so much time on a forum or in a chatroom :D It always struck me as funny.

[erowe1]

Maybe. I also think for the most part "normal people" don't post on internet forums. None of my friends do - at least that I know of.

Hannity gets 13 million listeners a day. How many people post on Hannity Forums? 13 thousand? 0.1%

Good point. It's true, and I sometimes forget that.

Even still, we have lurkers, visitors, and people who talk about what they see here elsewhere or report on it on their blogs or in articles. I think we do have the ability to influence the impression we make.

Also, it applies to the flesh-and-blood groups we're in too. Hopefully, as many of us as possible are getting involved in tea party groups, our local GOPs, and other places where we have the opportunity to get face time with power voters.

[Maximus]

In reference to the original post:

Yes, I agree. Let's embark on that program of "Peace through Surrender" or "Unity through Silence".

Then we can change this to the Sarah Palin Forums or the Huckabee Forums.

I think that I will continue to be me.

He's not saying don't be you

Just don't flame someone when they ask a question or post something misguided

[BlackTerrel]

Good point. It's true, and I sometimes forget that.

Even still, we have lurkers, visitors, and people who talk about what they see here elsewhere or report on it on their blogs or in articles. I think we do have the ability to influence the impression we make.

Also, it applies to the flesh-and-blood groups we're in too. Hopefully, as many of us as possible are getting involved in tea party groups, our local GOPs, and other places where we have the opportunity to get face time with power voters.

I agree.

[April1775]

We should be nice to them when they show up. If we put them off the forum, it may put them off liberty. I've seen that happen before. Newbies are sensitive and fragile and have special needs. lol....

[MelissaCato]

My local GOP there is no changing. It all needs replaced. This is gonna be one tough Ron Paul campaign in my neck of woods. It can be done though.

I'm kinda thinking about another chip-in (LOL) see if I can buy a building on the same road for a gathering place. There's a building already named the Liberty a few blocks north, the owner will sell it to me for 220,000. It really is a piece of crap though. But I like the name. LOL I'd really like to advertise Ron Paul 2012 on the busiest and most direct route threw Lebanon in a building that's been there forever.

Too much to hope for I guess. :rolleyes:

[robert9712000]

"Normal" by the society accepted standard to me is the definition of insanity,because they live in a reality that only exists in there head,and they choose to ignore the truth because seeing things for what they really are means your now accountable for your own actions.

[outspoken]

The jist of this thread is if you support Ron Paul, try to be like Ron Paul. While it is truly in the spirit of the founders to think with a free mind independently from the herd, this in itself is not 'normal'. It is human nature to want to fit in and assimilate into society and not rock the boat. Be a leader as there is a shift in consciousness welcoming and respecting others as the journey toward the dark side which is in reality the light. It is not human nature to jump head first into the water but rather stick your toe in and test it first. Don't burn people for trying the water out with just a foot or hand first.... this goes for liberals and neo cons who are on the path to rehabilitation. Rome wasn't built in a day and people need to shift in their thinking at a pace they are comfortable with not one you think they should take. My greatest piece of advice as I'm sure Ronald Paul would attest to is that it benefits no one to harp on some NWO even if that is what you believe. The Constitution can be restored without having to use fear-mongering and scare factor to see your(our) point of view. People pursue greater truth with you treat them warmly, respectful, and compassionately. We are all on the journey in life for greater understanding and enlightenment... be a guide along the path not a troll. jmho.

[outspoken]

"Normal" by the society accepted standard to me is the definition of insanity,because they live in a reality that only exists in there head,and they choose to ignore the truth because seeing things for what they really are means your now accountable for your own actions.

Reminds me of the quote....

'It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted in a profoundly sick society.' ~Krishnamurti

[sparebulb]

He's not saying don't be you

Just don't flame someone when they ask a question or post something misguided

The cryptic message was clear to me in the OP's statement. The translation was that he was ashamed of the rhetoric and manners of many of the board participants and that these "obtuse" people harm the recruitment of converts.

I can't say whether the OP is right or wrong. All I know is that the marketplace of free ideas becomes stale and irrelevant when the free ideas are moderated with political correctness and phony courtesies.

I was a RP supporter and financial contributor long before this forum existed, and will be long after I am banned. The content of this board in no way affects my support for RP, and I find it odd that others would decide that they wouldn't support a political candidate just because they didn't like a few comments on a message board.

[TomtheTinker]

+ rep

[RonPaulFanInGA]

As Ron Paul's support grows, we will see more and more normal people here

Hope they don't see the 'Hot Topics' section, or else many will probably flee in terror.

[muzzled dogg]

Lol at normal ppl

[muzzled dogg]

Lol kenny

[QueenB4Liberty]

Posts like these excite me! Bring it on!!!!!! I wasn't here for the first revolution but I am more than ready for this one.

[erowe1]

The cryptic message was clear

Which was it?

[sparebulb]

Which was it?

Ha, ha! Yes, that was pretty contradictory.

Let's change it to: "The cryptic message was clear to me......."

[DjLoTi]

Honestly, I think I'm pretty normal. But when I say normal, I mean that in the sense of 'a person of rational thought'. I think when the traffic of this website increases, it'll seem like more crazy people are here then 'normal' people. We'll have lots of trolls, and lots of arguing, I'm sure we'll see another PETA supporter post some horrible, disgusting photo. I'm sure that'll be only 1 example of some of the craziness here. Anyway I'm gonna go out and have fun, like a 'normal' person I suppose. Even though part of me wants to just stay home =P like the 'loser' part of me ;P

[JoshLowry]

In reference to the original post:

Yes, I agree. Let's embark on that program of "Peace through Surrender" or "Unity through Silence".

Then we can change this to the Sarah Palin Forums or the Huckabee Forums.

I think that I will continue to be me.


The cryptic message was clear to me in the OP's statement. The translation was that he was ashamed of the rhetoric and manners of many of the board participants and that these "obtuse" people harm the recruitment of converts.

I can't say whether the OP is right or wrong. All I know is that the marketplace of free ideas becomes stale and irrelevant when the free ideas are moderated with political correctness and phony courtesies.

I was a RP supporter and financial contributor long before this forum existed, and will be long after I am banned. The content of this board in no way affects my support for RP, and I find it odd that others would decide that they wouldn't support a political candidate just because they didn't like a few comments on a message board.

No site is perfect.

We work hard providing this site to our community. Please don't crucify your account and try to get banned. Just leave if you have nothing nice to say.

Moderating is a balancing act. Our team has done their best to sift through over 3 million posts. Can't make every cat happy.

[Rocco]

I feel like sometimes we forget what we are trying to do here. A lot of mainstream republicans still, inaccurately, view Dr Paul as crazy. When I became a Ron Paul supporter I was very guarded about it, I wondered if I wasnt becoming a kook. If you come here as a relatively mainstream fiscal conservative who like Ron Pauls spending record, start talking about an issue you take for granted (9/11 being the textbook example) and somebody starts being aggressive and hostile towards you over the keyboard, you're gonna think "Wow, these people really are crazy. What was I thinking?". You can believe that this wont affect peoples perceptions, but as a recently converted Ron Paul supporter I can PROMISE you that it does. If we ignore this, we do so at the peril of the entire movement. I'm not saying don't discuss issues, on the contrary discussion of issues is why I love this board, but if we are going to act like jerks on issues like this and not ease people who have shown they are ripe to learn our ideals into the philosophy of liberty we will never win elections.


The cryptic message was clear in the OP's statement. The translation was that he was ashamed of the rhetoric and manners of many of the board participants and that these "obtuse" people harm the recruitment of converts.

I can't say whether the OP is right or wrong. All I know is that the marketplace of free ideas becomes stale and irrelevant when the free ideas are moderated with political correctness and phony courtesies.

I was a RP supporter and financial contributor long before this forum existed, and will be long after I am banned. The content of this board in no way affects my support for RP, and I find it odd that others would decide that they wouldn't support a political candidate just because they didn't like a few comments on a message board.

[satchelmcqueen]

pretty good post OP!

[sparebulb]

No site is perfect.

We work hard providing this site to our community. Please don't crucify your account and try to get banned. Just leave if you have nothing nice to say.

Moderating is a balancing act. Our team has done their best to sift through over 3 million posts. Can't make every cat happy.

My comments are not a criticism of this board's moderators. My comments were in the context of the discussion of the OP's post, not a slam on this board. A re-read of the thread will confirm this, but it's totally not worth it. Please accept my apologies if it was taken otherwise.

As to my comments about being banned, that is my gallows humor. Much like when I say that I will be here until I'm hauled off to the FEMA camp.

[JoshLowry]

My comments are not a criticism of this board's moderators. My comments were in the context of the discussion of the OP's post, not a slam on this board. A re-read of the thread will confirm this, but it's totally not worth it. Please accept my apologies if it was taken otherwise.

As to my comments about being banned, that is my gallows humor. Much like when I say that I will be here until I'm hauled off to the FEMA camp.

Sorry, I take comments the wrong way sometimes and get defensive. :o

[sparebulb]

No problem, we all can.

Thank you for what you do on this board, Josh. I think that you guys are doing a great job for a great cause.

[TNforPaul45]

Normal people!? We dont serve their kind around here. Theyll have to wait outside with the droids.

[MelissaCato]

Lol

[Tinnuhana]

Aside from the issues, we also should remember where we are on the spectrum of political knowledgeability/awareness. We read alot and seek out information. We share new insights and references. There are people who don't do this but agree with us in principle. Consider a society where liberty is strong enough that people don't feel threatened sharing and shopping in the market of ideas.

[MelissaCato]

We read alot and seek out information. We share new insights and references. There are people who don't do this but agree with us in principle. Consider a society where liberty is strong enough that people don't feel threatened sharing and shopping in the market of ideas.

Welcome to America !!! Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

[hugolp]

Op, I wouldnt use the word normal. I think you wanted to say more mainstream thinking people.

Sometimes I feel like the only normal people are the ones that populate this forum.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, funny this should be brought up.

I just so happened to be at a little local meetup of about 20 fellow patriots at a neighbors place tonight.

There was a fellow there who was pushing the 9/12 Project really hard.

I sat off to the side and let the conversation drift as it may, I haven't been in a good frame of mind the past few days anyway, so it was better to just let things go their own way.

Until the topic of Ron Paul came up, and this fellow had a comment to the effect that "Well I like Ron Paul and all, domestically he is right on, but on foreign policy he's nuts".

Well, I blew my stack and went on a five minute rant about how we're all just pissing in the wind about reigning in government and controlling spending, if you are going to continue to ignore military spending, and how we're all sitting around whining about lost freedom when most of freedom has been lost in prosecution of this ridiculous "war on terror".

Thus endeth the rant.

And I figured that would be it and that would be all, I'd be dismissed as the lone Ron Paul nut.

Much to my surprise, after the fact, that many in the room were in agreement and that the point was made well.

There's a time to keep quiet and not make waves.

And there's a time to raise hell.

[low preference guy]

Well, I blew my stack and went on a five minute rant about how we're all just pissing in the wind about reigning in government and controlling spending, if you are going to continue to ignore military spending, and how we're all sitting around whining about lost freedom when most of freedom has been lost in prosecution of this ridiculous "war on terror".

Thus endeth the rant.

And I figured that would be it and that would be all, I'd be dismissed as the lone Ron Paul nut.

Much to my surprise, after the fact, that many in the room were in agreement and that the point was made well.

youtube?

[Anti Federalist]

youtube?

Yeah, I know, didn't happen...lol

[pcosmar]

Aside from the issues, we also should remember where we are on the spectrum of political knowledgeability/awareness. We read alot and seek out information. We share new insights and references. There are people who don't do this but agree with us in principle. Consider a society where liberty is strong enough that people don't feel threatened sharing and shopping in the market of ideas.

Principal..
That is what I saw in Ron Paul. "Normal" people are often focused on party or rhetoric. Sometimes new folks are just confused, sometimes they are opposed to the principals of liberty.
We have to stick to principals. Ron Paul does, and that is what makes him rare.

And yes, I question those that come here and spout off positions contrary to liberty. Some may be just ignorant (and can learn) Some are not and are the enemies of liberty. To believe that all folks coming here are honest,,, That there are no enemies of liberty trying to stifle, distort or confuse the message, is just plain stupid.

We need to be helpful to those that are seeking or are simply confused.
But we need to be aware of those enemies and vigilant in countering them.

[YumYum]

Principal..
That is what I saw in Ron Paul. "Normal" people are often focused on party or rhetoric. Sometimes new folks are just confused, sometimes they are opposed to the principals of liberty.
We have to stick to principals. Ron Paul does, and that is what makes him rare.

And yes, I question those that come here and spout off positions contrary to liberty. Some may be just ignorant (and can learn) Some are not and are the enemies of liberty. To believe that all folks coming here are honest,,, That there are no enemies of liberty trying to stifle, distort or confuse the message, is just plain stupid.

We need to be helpful to those that are seeking or are simply confused.
But we need to be aware of those enemies and vigilant in countering them.

I remember when I first came on this board you said that I was an 'agent provocateur'. I still don't know what that is. :p

But I do feel that the heated debates that transpire on this forum is what draws people here; that is why I joined, because the discussions over on C4L were so controlled that I didn't feel like people were really saying what they wanted to say. It has loosened up a bit though over there. Best motto is to attack the message and not the messenger. It is like you said, the majority of people who are new and come here are confused and have not done the research that many long time members on this board have done. And since a lot of leftists and liberals will be coming to this site, we should welcome them with open arms, and be patient with them while educating them. "Normal" people coming here can also be "angry" about what is happening in our country. Somebody has to keep a cool head, and I think we can pull it off.

[MelissaWV]

...
There's a time to keep quiet and not make waves.

And there's a time to raise hell.

Absolutely. I'm one of the ones that often says this place has gone off the deep end, and it's true I certainly can't recommend the place to recent converts of certain sorts, but so what? I would be far more annoyed by people straining to be something they're not.

I think it's time to make different sorts of waves to appeal to different sorts of people. I know we have the entire spectrum here, so that shouldn't be difficult.

I wonder if people realize we might be alienating "crazy" potential supporters if we act like we're all sitting in the parlour having a spot of tea ;)

Kudos on the hell-raising, my bbw-adoring salty sailor man.

[pcosmar]

I remember when I first came on this board you said that I was an 'agent provocateur'. I still don't know what that is. :p


I think I remember that, but don't remember the threads. I remember that I challenged you. You came off as very collectivist, on the socialist side.
I think you have come around on some issues.
;)
It is hard to tell if someone is misinformed or deliberately contrary. Hence the challenge. I will question others and hope that the simply misinformed will research and learn. I also hope to counter those that would distort or negate the message of Freedom.

We do have people that come here with ulterior motives. It is not wise to ignore this fact.

[YumYum]

We do have people that come here with ulterior motives. It is not wise to ignore this fact.

True, and I think it is pretty obvious who those individuals are in due time. But I have to say, that when someone doesn't understand how Freedom and Liberty works because they have been brainwashed that big government is the answer as long as it is "repaired", they will resist any notion of a reduced Federal government by getting rid of all the government departments. For instance "Jinks" just got banned. I don't know why, and it is none of my business. But I saw that he liked to stir the pot and ruffle feathers. I enjoyed the discussion, and I'm sure other lurkers here did too. I learn from the responses that people on this forum gave to Jinks. People that come here to challenge Freedom and Liberty help to keep Ron Paul supporters sharp in debating the issues. Also, in the long run, truth prevails. How many people on this forum have changed their views since they joined this board? I know I have.

[WyoLiberty]

The more I learn the less "normal" I realize I am...libertarian by day....anarchist/voluntaryist/agorist by night...LOL So I have an identity crisis... Once I fell down the rabbit hole - I just kept going...but I have a hard time coming to terms with anarchism et al, solely based on the fact I can't live like that seeming utopia. I'm sure I'm not the only one...

With that being said...it may take some serious means to jolt people out of their reverie (It did me - as a former zombie, the Alex Jones stuff about did me in...but I survived...) Meet people at their needs - some will only need some minor coaxing...others may be terminal if they are too thin skinned or bull-headed and you may need to raise hell (What have you got to lose at that point?) You can't please everyone - you can't "save" everyone. Just plant some seeds and hope they grow - fast.

[nayjevin]

True, and I think it is pretty obvious who those individuals are in due time. But I have to say, that when someone doesn't understand how Freedom and Liberty works because they have been brainwashed that big government is the answer as long as it is "repaired", they will resist any notion of a reduced Federal government by getting rid of all the government departments. For instance "Jinks" just got banned. I don't know why, and it is none of my business. But I saw that he liked to stir the pot and ruffle feathers. I enjoyed the discussion, and I'm sure other lurkers here did too. I learn from the responses that people on this forum gave to Jinks. People that come here to challenge Freedom and Liberty help to keep Ron Paul supporters sharp in debating the issues. Also, in the long run, truth prevails. How many people on this forum have changed their views since they joined this board? I know I have.

Folks who come and issue genuine complaints keep us sharp. But those who advance fake arguments take the conversation toward that argument - it's a distortion.

We do know what common complaints to Ron's positions are, and they aren't always represented here. I can appreciate those who understand them well enough to say 'a common complaint is that Ron believes X but this is explained by his view of state sovereignty,' etc.

[pcosmar]

For instance "Jinks" just got banned.

Really?
Can't say I'm sorry to hear that.
I had engaged him on a couple of threads. Seemed to have no concept of Liberty or of Ron Paul's positions.
I'm not sure that long argumentative threads are always helpful.

Though they do keep the blades sharp.

[civusamericanus]

The people who have spent the past 3-4 years as regulars here are not normal. We hold out-of-the-mainstream views, some in different ways than others. Some are anarchists, some are theocrats, some are both at the same time. Few, if any, are representative of the typical GOP primary voter.

As Ron Paul's support grows over the next year, up to that crucial level of support that it will take to win the Republican primaries (let's say, ballpark 25%), we will become outnumbered by normal people, people who think that public school is a public good, along with most of what they've gotten used to government doing. They will be people who like most of what Ron Paul says, but wish he didn't have those views on the Federal Reserve. They will be people who think Shawn Hannity is a great American, who voted for McCain and don't regret it, and who came here because they listened to what Ron Paul had to say and thought to themselves, "He sounds more like Ronald Reagan than the others do."

We want this to happen. We need this to happen. As it does happen, even while we're showing them other ways of looking at things, we need to do that in ways that make them feel entirely at home here. Be gentle. Remember most of us were like them not long ago. Don't suggest to them that they might find the establishment candidates more to their liking, because they might take you up on that.


BTW great OP! I plan not to poke the animals with sticks. We should also reach out to other General Republican forums, and as we convert them send them back to RPF.

[rich34]

It would be nice if ole Josh could send out private messages to those folks that have been here since say 08 or 09 and tell them such.. I agree with this mindset completely, but I know others that may be a little more new to the game may not be up to speed yet. Josh, you hear me and can this be done?

[MelissaWV]

Pretty sure that "Jinks" was discovered to be a reincarnation of a prior username. In other words, he was ban-evading. Most of the time no one cares about that until you start trolling.

[Southron]

Pretty sure that "Jinks" was discovered to be a reincarnation of a prior username. In other words, he was ban-evading. Most of the time no one cares about that until you start trolling.

His posting style seemed very familiar, and I could never tell which side of an argument he was taking.

[Bern]

I like the sentiment of the OP but expect that many people won't truly grok it. If you are trying to win support for Ron Paul - or Ron Paul's ideas, you need to take a moment to consider your actions and what you are hoping to achieve with each and every post - with each and every word. Too often, people get dragged in to an argument and it becomes an endeavor of satisfying emotional needs instead of winning support. If you are putting people on the defensive by attacking them, you aren't going to win their support. If you take an absolutist "demand perfection" attitude - where disagreement on a single issue causes you to disparage or otherwise turn away would be support, you are being counter-productive. It is possible to make friends and influence people without being caustic.

Be honest, be cordial and seek the truth with integrity. The rest will take care of itself.

[VegasPatriot]

"That's why in this organization the bedrock is goodwill... it's integrity... it's honesty... and it's civility. And we insist upon it." Quote from Stewart Rhodes founder of Oath Keepers

[sailingaway]

Them:

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/tv_pix/nbc/saturday_night_live_episode_photos/_group_photos/ana_gasteyer33.jpg

Us:

http://amazingdata.com/mediadata34/Image/hot_weird_funny_amazing_cool7_a-these-people-exist-part4-17_20090727094534463.jpg

Normalcy is in the eye of the beholder....

On the other hand, I think it is a good idea to keep in mind what Ron put in his email: "The only Constitution many of these people will read is the constitution of our character."

[pcosmar]

On the other hand, I think it is a good idea to keep in mind what Ron put in his email: "The only Constitution many of these people will read is the constitution of our character."

I have been described (more than once) as a colorful character.
;)

[pacelli]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image.php?u=740&dateline=1200040610

I miss normal.
;)

Me too.

[ItsTime]

And there's a time to raise hell.

Same thing happened to me yesterday. I was at a tea party (put on by libertarian-minded people). I was sitting next to a "I love Glenn Beck" 50ish year old woman. We started talking about spending and the next election. I basically said we could not afford a "Obama-lite" and needed to elect someone that was a real conservative, which included a non-interventionist foreign policy. Talked about how what was happening in the middle east was blowback from our meddling and that THE US has made an involvement for al qaeda to grow. She said how she wishes the younger generation would get what is happening.

After listening to me rant a little bit she said, yeah Mitt Romney offers nothing but the same as Obama, Huckster has all his problems. She asked who I liked in the field, of course I said Ron Paul. I then talked a little about how if you go to a Ron Paul event you will see a lot of college and younger people. The message of limited government and a non-interventionist foreign policy is really catching on in the colleges and Ron Paul can help grow the Republican party.

If we present the argument for Ron Paul in calm, rational way a lot of these neo-cons can and will understand why he is right. Because not to long ago Bush was talking much like Ron is now.

[Cowlesy]

Good post.

There are a lot of lecturers on the forum. They know who they are. Often times a new person will join the board, make a point that doesn't follow the lecturer's political philosophy, and the lecturer proceeds to lampoon them as 1) Uneducated. 2) Trolling.

I was a disaffected Republican when I found out about Ron Paul, and prior to becoming disaffected, a Bush Republican to some degree. I had ZERO internet forum experience. I joined RonPaulForums and I think within five posts I had LibertyEagle blasting me for, if you'll believe it, me blasting 9/11 Truthers. So keep in mind that new people may not also have the internet etiquette (netiquette?) that some of you have.

So have some patience. Obviously, some new sign-ups will be trolls. Flag the posts and we'll deal with them accordingly.

Let's try to be inclusive. There are going to be some diehard activists on here that'll just surf the forum for information and maybe only have a few posts. I remember some of them from B.J. Lawson's campaign. Good people who use the forum for information, and not as community. Their lack of posting doesn't make them sunshine patriots, just that they have a different use for the forum. On the flipside, there are some diehard lazy-boy commandos who just wish to pontificate that if we only all followed their political philosophy, we'd live in the perfect world. Well, fine, but don't scare off all the people knocking on doors and organizing precincts.

I think we've always tried to strike a happy medium. It will never be perfect. You can pretty much expect an increase in trolls (there are already plenty on here as it stands today) and ultimately bans. You can also pretty much expect lots of new posts from well-meaning non-community people for which you need to have some patience.

It's good we get this out there now, even if we inevitably re-hash it all in six months.

[libertybrewcity]

Does anyone else notice the ideological trends of the forum? From the end of 2009 to mid 2010, the forum leaned heavily towards anarcho capitalism. My guess was that a lot of the Ron Paul supporters had stopped contributing to the forum because the RP race had ended and some moved on. As Rand Paul and 2010 midterms came up from mid 2010 to november, the trend was increasingly less anarcho-capitalist and more RP libertarianism. Ancap forum topics with often unrivaled with opposing viewpoints or only one or two dissenters were starting to become evenly matched by less ancap thinkers. Since november, the cpac win, and the money bomb, it seems that much as evened out. Perhaps new RP supporters that are not full on libertarians have entered the arena.

[Anti Federalist]

Me too.

Seconded.

And unban Truth Warrior!!!

[Anti Federalist]

Good post.

There are a lot of lecturers on the forum. They know who they are. Often times a new person will join the board, make a point that doesn't follow the lecturer's political philosophy, and the lecturer proceeds to lampoon them as 1) Uneducated. 2) Trolling.

I was a disaffected Republican when I found out about Ron Paul, and prior to becoming disaffected, a Bush Republican to some degree. I had ZERO internet forum experience. I joined RonPaulForums and I think within five posts I had LibertyEagle blasting me for, if you'll believe it, me blasting 9/11 Truthers. So keep in mind that new people may not also have the internet etiquette (netiquette?) that some of you have.

So have some patience. Obviously, some new sign-ups will be trolls. Flag the posts and we'll deal with them accordingly.

Let's try to be inclusive. There are going to be some diehard activists on here that'll just surf the forum for information and maybe only have a few posts. I remember some of them from B.J. Lawson's campaign. Good people who use the forum for information, and not as community. Their lack of posting doesn't make them sunshine patriots, just that they have a different use for the forum. On the flipside, there are some diehard lazy-boy commandos who just wish to pontificate that if we only all followed their political philosophy, we'd live in the perfect world. Well, fine, but don't scare off all the people knocking on doors and organizing precincts.

I think we've always tried to strike a happy medium. It will never be perfect. You can pretty much expect an increase in trolls (there are already plenty on here as it stands today) and ultimately bans. You can also pretty much expect lots of new posts from well-meaning non-community people for which you need to have some patience.

It's good we get this out there now, even if we inevitably re-hash it all in six months.

In other words, play nice with the straights.

Yes sir.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Jack_Nicholson_Cuckoo.jpg

;)

[Pericles]

As I mentioned a long time ago, I was in the Perot 1992 campaign. Almost all of the effort was volunteer driven and that could be sometimes difficult to keep "on task" with people who had other agendas.

Internet forums and social media have largely replaced the Perot phone bank approach, and with it there is less ability to read the subtle parts of a conversation. As people find and link up with networks of supporters of various ideas, the reception can matter and have secondary effects.

In the early days of Perot 1992, Perot himself would occasionally answer some calls. I would expect that the person calling and that got to speak with him on the phone probably related the experience to family, friends, and coworkers. Very likely this resulted in an enthusiastic supporter.

There were people on the phones who had other agendas to promote and they had to be removed from that task - no reason this place should be that much different.

Imagine your feeling of finding more people out there who think like you do, and coach others to share that feeling.

[libertybrewcity]

As I mentioned a long time ago, I was in the Perot 1992 campaign. Almost all of the effort was volunteer driven and that could be sometimes difficult to keep "on task" with people who had other agendas.

Internet forums and social media have largely replaced the Perot phone bank approach, and with it there is less ability to read the subtle parts of a conversation. As people find and link up with networks of supporters of various ideas, the reception can matter and have secondary effects.

In the early days of Perot 1992, Perot himself would occasionally answer some calls. I would expect that the person calling and that got to speak with him on the phone probably related the experience to family, friends, and coworkers. Very likely this resulted in an enthusiastic supporter.

There were people on the phones who had other agendas to promote and they had to be removed from that task - no reason this place should be that much different.

Imagine your feeling of finding more people out there who think like you do, and coach others to share that feeling.

I think the most important is the fact that while phonebanking and internet forums are important, the only way to win a campaign is to use the computer only as an organizational tool and physically go door to door connecting with voters. This is the key to victory: physical activism.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Entrepreneurial risk takers know how success and failure is measured before they take any risk. If you would like me to shut up and disappear so all you normal people can get along better I will tell you how to do it right now.

Publish what complete and total political cheerleader failure is. Get into the nitty gritty. I want some people of integrity stating what they stand for and where the line in the sand is. So where is it?

Is it when someone is persecuted for committing acts of non-aggression that harm no one? Already plenty of that going on...

Is it when someone's children are taken away? Got plenty of that too...

You tell me where the line in the sand is and I will cite the evidence on how that line has been crossed in the United States within the past century.

A strategy I do not feel like participating in is the eternally vigilant political whining of people who are too afraid to stand up to their own government because the line in the sand has been crossed (likely many times). It's just as bad as listening to a nation of so called Christians who worship the Prince of Peace preaching about bombing brown people. Must be because we love them so much. :rolleyes:

Nor do I feel like participating in a strategy where success can not be measured or clearly defined.

In other words, inspire my abnormal ass to disappear so I will know when to reappear which would be when political cheerleader failure is self evident to all the normal people.