No Killing: Reversing Itself, Navy Grants Christian Man Conscientious Objector Status

[doodle]

Reversing Itself, Navy Grants Ensign Conscientious Objector Status

Michael Izbicki Was Stationed At Submarine School

Michael Izbicki, a US Naval officer on active duty at the Groton naval base has applied for the release of his duties on religious grounds as a conscientious objector. He has been twice refused, however, this third time a lawsuit filed on his behalf by the ACLU-CT has help him win his release. Izbicki, whose Christian convictions preclude his participation in war, is currently living at the Saint Francis House in New London. A Naval Academy graduate in May of 2008. "Id like to take what I learned in the navy and help make the world a better place, through peaceful means," he says of his future plans. (Richard Messina, Hartford Courant / February 22, 2011)


Izbicki said he eventually decided his Christian beliefs forbid him from killing. He initially hoped he could continue his career in a noncombat role, but ultimately decided he could not support war in any way, he said.

But two Navy investigations, the second after he was assigned to the Naval Submarine School in Groton, questioned the depth and duration of his beliefs.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-izbicki-objector-0223-20110222,0,5322160.story

[Legend1104]

Good for him

[AZKing]

Can I conscientiously object to paying taxes since it goes to killing people in the middle east?

[doodle]

AZK, no no no. Thiis is United States of Free Capitalism, no one comes before the $, not even God.

[goldencane]

He volunteered to go to the naval academy and join the military. It is common knowledge that one of the jobs of the military is to go to war and kill. And he signed up while we were at war! This is just ridiculous. The taxpayers paid for his education, they pay for his salary, and they pay for his benefits. He needs to do his job. If he was drafted I would say he had a case, but he volunteered so he should not complain.

[kah13176]

I'm atheist, however, I always like to ask Christians this:

Christians always throw out the disgustingly hypocritical "What would Jesus do?" saying. Well then, can you can imagine CHRIST IN WHITE firing an M16 rifle at people he's never even met? Can you imagine the LORD operating Abu Ghraib prison, or fighting on a side that sees no problem with covert ops in foreign lands?

[doodle]

He volunteered to go to the naval academy and join the military. It is common knowledge that one of the jobs of the military is to go to war and kill. And he signed up while we were at war! This is just ridiculous. The taxpayers paid for his education, they pay for his salary, and they pay for his benefits. He needs to do his job. If he was drafted I would say he had a case, but he volunteered so he should not complain.



This may shed some light on evolution of his thoughts on his beliefs:


While in high school, Izbicki also began a long and sometimes arduous quest to develop his religious beliefs. He started attending a nondenominational church and eventually read the Bible cover to cover.

A standout student and voracious reader, he studied the religions of the world as his identity as a Christian grew. While at the academy, he attended campus services, went to an off campus Baptist church and engaged his friends in marathon discussions on faith and belief, he said.

Even when he graduated from the Naval Academy as an ensign in 2008, he said he saw no conflict between his religious beliefs and military service.

But after being assigned to submarine training in South Carolina, he was given a routine psychological exam. Among the several hundred questions, he was asked if he could launch a nuclear missile.

"It was the first time anybody had really put it so bluntly," he said. "At that point I thought to myself, I couldn't."

[doodle]

This is history lesson about recent Iraq war and US Christians role.

Dear Mr. President

http://erlc.com/article/the-so-called-land-letter/

[goldencane]

It was a question among hundreds. In every psychological exam there are questions about extremes. If they actually asked him to do that I would understand about him backing out because he would have a valid reason, nuclear weapons kill massive amounts of civilians. I am not a fan of war at all, but i think he should have understood what he was signing up for. And how is being in a support role to the people doing killing any better than the person doing killing anyways? Thats like saying the butcher is more responsible for the death of the animal than the meat eater, it isn't true. He joined an organization that kills people, everyone involved is just as responsible for the killing. Again, he has received hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money for school, salary, and benefits. He needs to do the job he signed up for.

[AZKing]

no one comes before the $, not even God.

Who? ;)

[ifthenwouldi]

i think he should have understood what he was signing up for.

From the article:


"It was the first time anybody had really put it so bluntly," he said.

It's no secret the US government tends to minimize the actual killing "part" of war when they're recruiting. That question should've been asked of him when he walked in the recruiter's office.

[doodle]

Who? ;)


$ Almighty :)

[doodle]

That question should've been asked of him when he walked in the recruiter's office.

That pep talk usually revolves around "do you want your education paid for, travel and see the world and be all you can be" :)

Oh yeah, and "do you want to be cool like (rap music star) shaggy?, he is a marine". That was actually reported in news during Iraq season.

[Vessol]

Killing is murder unless it is in immediate self-defense.

[Legend1104]

Do the job he was paid for? So...even though I believe that killing innocents is murder, if they paid for my schooling I should just shut up and push the button? I could have supported freedom, peace, love, and protection of the innocent, but if the federal government pays my way I have no say in the matter? Conscience out the window. It doesn't matter if I have a change of opinion or heart down the road? Got it. Glad to know where you stand.

[doodle]

The taxpayers paid for his education, they pay for his salary, and they pay for his benefits. He needs to do his job.

Would you support adding all the key details of the "job" be added to recruitment ads? Ads shown usually highlight free education, travel, see the world.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

This is United States of Free Capitalism, no one comes before the $, not even God.

Uh, this is the United States of Corporatism, not Free Market Capitalism. Do not confuse the two.

[mczerone]

He volunteered to go to the naval academy and join the military. It is common knowledge that one of the jobs of the military is to go to war and kill. And he signed up while we were at war! This is just ridiculous. The taxpayers paid for his education, they pay for his salary, and they pay for his benefits. He needs to do his job. If he was drafted I would say he had a case, but he volunteered so he should not complain.

Exactly. Further, even if he is not pulling the trigger, he is doing something that allows the guy to be there to pull he trigger. He's still participating in the criminal conspiracy, and if his morality would condemn pulling the trigger, it would forbid participating in the entire process.

[silentshout]

//

[goldencane]

Do the job he was paid for? So...even though I believe that killing innocents is murder, if they paid for my schooling I should just shut up and push the button? I could have supported freedom, peace, love, and protection of the innocent, but if the federal government pays my way I have no say in the matter? Conscience out the window. It doesn't matter if I have a change of opinion or heart down the road? Got it. Glad to know where you stand.
First of all, everyone knows that innocent people die in every war and that being a part of the military means that in someway you would have a part of that. Second, they never actually asked him to kill an innocent person, or anyone for that matter. If they did ask him to kill an innocent person, I have no problem with him backing out. I agree that people can have a change of heart, but the big problem I have with this is that it can set a bad precedent at the tax payers expense. The military gives out good salaries (especially for officers), great benefits, and expensive education or training, all paid for by the tax payers. If the military keeps allowing people to leave because of a sudden religious revelation, many many people will join during peace time (or maybe even not in this case), take all the salary, benefits, and education provided to them by the tax payers and then once they are called upon to go to war claim it is against their religion to go to war. Suppose we are in a legitimate war in the future where we were attacked. As the tax payers, we hire these people to defend us, but if they are able back out once they are actually called upon, all that we previously spent on them would be a waste. And we would have one less qualified person that we hired to defend us.

[goldencane]

Would you support adding all the key details of the "job" be added to recruitment ads? Ads shown usually highlight free education, travel, see the world.
I don't claim that ads provide accurate job descriptions, but they aren't the contract. The contract mentions that you may have to kill if called upon.

[doodle]

Who? ;)

Corporatism, I have been corrected and rightfully so. I was confusing corporatism with free capitalism earlier.

[Flash]

Corporatism, I have been corrected and rightfully so. I was confusing corporatism with free capitalism earlier.

I think it's fair to equate Capitalism with Corporatism. The majority of Americans think the two are the same nowadays so why bother? I prefer to say I'm for the Free Market.

[doodle]

I think it's fair to equate Capitalism with Corporatism. The majority of Americans think the two are the same nowadays so why bother? I prefer to say I'm for the Free Market.

True, perhaps we need to be better educated on this.