HR 1955 - Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

[mrd]

House Vote #993 - Oct 23, 2007

This is an amendment to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, adding provisions for 'homegrown terrorism'.

"(1) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

This is in direct conflict with the principles of the founders when establishing the second amendment.

The text of the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

Votes on the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
PASSED 404 Ayes, 6 Nays, 22 No Votes

The vote was under 'suspension of the Rules'
"The purpose of considering bills under suspension is to dispose of non- controversial measures expeditiously" according to http://www.rules.house.gov/Archives/suspend_rules.htm

If you don't think this bill is controversial you need a history lesson.

[noxagol]

Wow, this is sickening.

[steph3n]

ummm, we already have laws that punish crimes........why make new laws full of bull?

[bbachtung]

Is it even possible to "intimidate or coerce" the United States government?

[steph3n]

Is it even possible to "intimidate or coerce" the United States government?

lobbyist groups :)

[terlinguatx]

...

[mrd]

From George Washington's Farewell Address in 1796:

"The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government.

All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.

However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

Towards the preservation of your government, and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts. One method of assault may be to effect, in the forms of the Constitution, alterations which will impair the energy of the system, and thus to undermine what cannot be directly overthrown. In all the changes to which you may be invited, remember that time and habit are at least as necessary to fix the true character of governments as of other human institutions; that experience is the surest standard by which to test the real tendency of the existing constitution of a country; that facility in changes, upon the credit of mere hypothesis and opinion, exposes to perpetual change, from the endless variety of hypothesis and opinion; and remember, especially, that for the efficient management of your common interests, in a country so extensive as ours, a government of as much vigor as is consistent with the perfect security of liberty is indispensable. Liberty itself will find in such a government, with powers properly distributed and adjusted, its surest guardian. It is, indeed, little else than a name, where the government is too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction, to confine each member of the society within the limits prescribed by the laws, and to maintain all in the secure and tranquil enjoyment of the rights of person and property. "

Surely, in his farewell address, George Washington espoused in the necessity of liberty to have these destructive factions able to keep our government in check?

[terlinguatx]

...

[Corydoras]

Laws are already on the books that prohibit violence and conspiracy to commit violence. Why is a new law needed and a new label?

This law does not prohibit violence. This law prohibits a thought-- namely, having a political or social purpose. This law creates a thought crime.

I noticed that Ron Paul was a "no vote" instead of a "nay" on this. I wonder where he was?

[freedominnumbers]

Seriously, consider this. If a hostile action is started, whether by protestors or police, at any form of rally or political action the activists involved would fully meet the definition "Homegrown Terrorist".

[terlinguatx]

...

[CurtisLow]

Nuts!

[JoshLowry]

Congress would be better off if they did nothing.

[constituent]

Congress would be better off if they did nothing.

i don't know about them, but we would.

[Corydoras]

What really gets to me is that this bill makes it worse to commit a crime with "political or social objectives" than for just the hell of it.

I mean, what, those monsters who destroyed the Petit family (that doctor's family in Connecticut) would have been somehow worse if they'd done it in the name of some loony ideal?

[RP4ME]

what chance do we have with the American freedom agenda act if this passes with a landslide

[american.swan]

lobbyist groups :)

RIGHT ON!!! PUT those lobbyist in jail!!!! Who else can do it but them? It's like a anti lobbying law!! By mistake.

Ok someone needs to seriously bring charges against a lobbying group under this law.

(why? because it would show the stupidity of the law)

[american.swan]

I sent this bill to my brother for review. I'll tell you want he says.

[beerista]

House Vote #993 - Oct 23, 2007
This is an amendment to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, adding provisions for 'homegrown terrorism'.

"(1) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence... to intimidate or coerce... the civilian population of the United States... in furtherance of political or social objectives."
You know, if you look past all the legalese it's really a pretty good bill. Sounds like they'll be locking up everyone who voted to further the War on Drugs and other bits of "political or social objectives" backed with the threat of violent arrest and prolonged detention any day now.

This is in direct conflict with the principles of the founders when establishing the second amendment.
I think you've got that exactly backwards.

[B]Votes on the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
PASSED 404 Ayes, 6 Nays, 22 No Votes
Funny, I didn't realize there were 404 Republicans in the House. If Democrats started voting for things like this, the American voters would soon start to wonder why they "threw the rascals out" last November. Good thing none did.

The vote was under 'suspension of the Rules'...
The "rules" in question, of course, being the Constitution.

[unklejman]

Sickening. I saw this coming.

[syborius]

the administration is very concerned there will be hell to pay soon and is putting as much legislation on the books to stomp down opposition. This is a definite sign of desperation as to how poorly crafted the language is in these bills. The wording here implies any opposition really, and thought becomes a crime against the approved orthodoxy. I think the end is coming soon, we will have an uprising because sure as shit the RP revolution will come crashing down on their party. The question is, will they continue to resist popular sentiment. I am willing to bet they won't go down without a huge fight. It will get very messy.

[noxagol]

The death throws of the dying beast.

[sedele]

You know, if you look past all the legalese it's really a pretty good bill. Sounds like they'll be locking up everyone who voted to further the War on Drugs and other bits of "political or social objectives" backed with the threat of violent arrest and prolonged detention any day now.

I think you've got that exactly backwards.

Funny, I didn't realize there were 404 Republicans in the House. If Democrats started voting for things like this, the American voters would soon start to wonder why they "threw the rascals out" last November. Good thing none did.

The "rules" in question, of course, being the Constitution.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:9km_YuNEKqGDzM:http://www.realmofdarkness.net/pranks/chappelle-4.jpg

[Wendi]

I'm stuck on the sickening irony of the date it was introduced. April 19th.

Where's the smiley for puking?

[mweldon]

CALL THEM, WRITE THEM, EMAIL THEM..

"Do not go quietly into that good night!!"

I hope for every posting you make about this resolution you send off at least an email to your senator...

Due to Ron Pauls message, we now have one of the most powerful political action groups assembled in the US in decades. Let's use it!! Flood your congressmans email box like we do with every good or bad reporter in the media.

I've studied this type of movement going back for decades and we have something that goes beyond the Barry Goldwater action groups. We have the capacity to make the John Birch society look like traffic cop on queludes.

goto senate.gov, look up your senator and email them, write them and call them, we have the numbers.

I keep a stack of premade addressed and postage paid envelopes for my rep and two senators read at all times. And by god they get a letter every time something like this comes up and I'm just one bloke.

Call them , email them, write them....they do listen and they do take notice. The Immigration reform bill was a prime example, the people spoke out and there were several key senators that would not budge from their constituency.

ACTION PEOPLE!!!!! MOVE ON IT!!!!!

CALL THEM, EMAIL THEM, WRITE THEM!!!

[conner_condor]

The definition of violent radicalization uses vague language to define this term of promoting any belief system that the government considers to be an extremist agenda. Since the bill doesn’t specifically define what an extremist belief system is, it is entirely up to the interpretation of the government. Considering how much the government has done to destroy the Constitution they could even define Ron Paul supporters as promoting an extremist belief system. Literally, the government according to this definition can define whatever they want as an extremist belief system. Essentially they have defined violent radicalization as thought crime.

[mrd]

Consider this: they will study how people become political demonstrators/protestors in order to stifle that behavior. The Congress is directly undermining the political process. The Founding Fathers would be taking arms.

And this idea of labeling our own citizens as terrorists? This should be a red flag to every citizen! The things we allow our government to do to foreigners labeled a 'terrorist' are horrible enough, now we're opening the door for this treatment to ourselves! And to the end of repressing political activism! How more blatant can this get?

[Wendi]

Oh, but it's okay. We all know the only "extremist belief system" is radical Islam, so the rest of us are safe....

((( yeah, right )))

... Just remember that when you're in church with your family next Sunday, and hope your Pastor never dares to say the gov't is wrong in anything they do.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
(Martin Niemoeller)

[deedles]

I just called *my*(hahahahhaahaha) representative.

What a joke. We are in so much trouble in this country... I shudder to think.

Maybe this is what all those FEMA camp beds are waiting for? Us?

[american.swan]

Well well well a news release from a local station in Texas listed my home districts Democrat house member as one of the most powerful members of the US house. I am going to be hounding him on this vote and any other civil rights issues that come up.

[mrd]

Anyone know what that current status on this bill is? Did it hit the Senate yet?

[Jobarra]

"`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens."

Woah. End game. Even worse is the Committee for Homeland Violence(or whatever the label is. It's actually the name of the bill without the Prevention Act of 2007 at the end)

This is some really scary stuff after watching V for Vendetta so recently. And of course the media refers to V as a 'terrorist'.

Edit to Add: Ugh, sure enough my 'representative' voted on it. You know, I'm not really a public speaker in any sense of the word, but I think my rage might be able to get me through enough speeches to replace my 'representative' in elections and help this country.

[freelance]

Congress would be better off if they did nothing.

I pray for the return to gridlock.

[apropos]

The wording of that excerpt reminds me of the Soviet Union's Article 58, which sent millions of 'counter-revolutionaries' to the gulag.

Contact your reps at http://www.congress.org.

[pcosmar]

I pray for the return to gridlock.

I pray for change.

[PatriotG]

Previously discussed...

and very disturbing this bill is in its current form.
They need to be more clear on the definitions, notably 2 -3 - and 4.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=31027


PatriotG

[pcosmar]

Previously discussed...

and very disturbing this bill is in its current form.
They need to be more clear on the definitions, notably 2 -3 - and 4.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=31027


PatriotG

Current form???
It is disturbing from it's very conception. I needs to be scraped and those that wrote it need to be jailed, or hanged. It is a crime against all Americans.
It is a violation of Civil Rights.
It is an abomination.

[PatriotG]

Current form???
It is disturbing from it's very conception. I needs to be scraped and those that wrote it need to be jailed, or hanged. It is a crime against all Americans.
It is a violation of Civil Rights.
It is an abomination.

No argument from me
Im easy.
Scrap it all together! Even Better

PatriotG