Greece: "Don't obey the rich — Fight back!"

[aGameOfThrones]

ATHENS, Greece – Greek riot police and protesters have clashed outside parliament during a mass rally taking place as part of a general strike.

Police fired tear gas Wednesday at scores of protesting youths, who hurled rocks and firebombs as running battles broke out.

More than 30,000 protesters had attended the rally, while the general strike halted public transportation and led to the cancellation of more than 100 flights at Athens International Airport, as unions stepped up opposition to the country's austerity measures.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — A general strike halted public transportation across Greece on Wednesday and led to the cancellation of more than 100 flights at Athens International Airport, as unions stepped up opposition to the country's austerity measures.

More than 30,000 protesters chanting "Don't obey the rich — Fight back!" marched to parliament as the city center was heavily policed. A brass band, tractors and cyclists joined one of two main rallies, by a Communist-backed union.

State hospital doctors, ambulance drivers, pharmacists, lawyers and tax collectors also joined school teachers, journalists and thousands of small businesses in the 24-hour strike as more middle-class groups took part in the protest than have in the past. Athens' main shopping district was mostly empty, as many small business owners shuttered their stores.

This year's first major labor protest in Greece began as Prime Minister George Papandreou's Socialist government faces international pressure to make more lasting cuts after the nation's debt-crippled economy was rescued from bankruptcy by the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_greece_financial_crisis_4

[jrskblx125]

Give us more things for free!!!!! We lack responsibility!!!!! Stupid stupid. Almost cant blame em though europes been screwed a long time just read daniel hannans book the new road to serfdom.

[Stary Hickory]

The Greek people represent the ultimate and final effects of socialist propaganda. They are still pushing the same line "kill the rich" after punishing anyone stupid enough to try and make a single euro for years and years.

I am always curious are they that brainwashed? Have they fallen that far? Do they think they can have "things" and not produce them? What they want is the impossible, they wanted to be lied to by politicians, and they were.

R.I.P. Greece, once a long long long time ago, the very pinnacle of Western society.

[cheapseats]

Give us more things for free!!!!! We lack responsibility!!!!! Stupid stupid. Almost cant blame em though europes been screwed a long time just read daniel hannans book the new road to serfdom.

ALMOST can't blame them?

[cheapseats]

The Greek people represent the ultimate and final effects of socialist propaganda. They are still pushing the same line "kill the rich" after punishing anyone stupid enough to try and make a single euro for years and years.

I am always curious are they that brainwashed? Have they fallen that far? Do they think they can have "things" and not produce them? What they want is the impossible, they wanted to be lied to by politicians, and they were.

R.I.P. Greece, once a long long long time ago, the very pinnacle of Western society.

Do you suggest that Ruling Elite play fair, and that the game is NOT rigged to their advantage?

[cheapseats]

Fear not, I'm just passing thru. If y'all don't recognize that Class Warfare is ON, and that American Middle Classes are in the middle of the battlefield WITHOUT WEAPONS OR ARMOR, it is perhaps YOU who have some brainwashing to reverse. If beleaguered Americans agree on NOTHING else, they DO agree that Conscienceless Uber Rich have been running roughshod over the Citizens and Treasuries of damn near every country on earth.

[cheapseats]

If y'all are suggesting that we should OBEY the Rich, no worries - we ARE obeying the Rich. HOWZ THAT WORKIN' OUT FOR US?

[AuH20]

Do you suggest that Ruling Elite play fair, and that the game is NOT rigged to their advantage?

But the Greeks were stupid enough to swallow the poison and then happily ask for seconds. Now they denounce the elite after greedily taking their tainted services for all these years. They're hypocrites of the highest order.

[cheapseats]

But the Greeks were stupid enough to swallow the poison and then happily ask for seconds.

Americans WEREN'T? Americans DIDN'T?



Now they denounce the elite after greedily taking their tainted services for all these years. They're hypocrites of the highest order.

Americans are so different?

Is not the objective for people to WAKE UP, realize they are being abused WHILE being sold down river, and resolve to TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRIES?

[AuH20]

Americans WEREN'T? Americans DIDN'T?




Americans are so different?

Is not the objective for people to WAKE UP, realize they are being abused WHILE being sold down river, and resolve to TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRIES?

Not to the degree the greeks have. But we're right behind them.

[Stary Hickory]

Do you suggest that Ruling Elite play fair, and that the game is NOT rigged to their advantage?

WTF are you talking about....let me do the same to you.

DO you support Socialism and the violent methods by which is brought about and enforced?

[cheapseats]

Not to the degree the greeks have. But we're right behind them.

Yep.

Which is why we should be RIGHT BEHIND THEM.

[Stary Hickory]

Yep.

Which is why we should be RIGHT BEHIND THEM.

Again who cares..really...

The entire post was in response to the punish the rich garbage that pukes out of the ignorant mouthes of the socialist brain dead. The Greeks are idiots, they are screaming against reality itself. A total relapse into apehood, instead of observing reality and building a better future, they are screaming out against reality, and making ridiculous demands.

[cheapseats]

WTF are you talking about....let me do the same to you.

DO you support Socialism and the violent methods by which is brought about and enforced?

I do NOT support Socialism. Socialism DOES require Force to "work." Socialism is a hop, skip and Kum Bay Yah from Communism.

I DO, however, support fighting FIRE WITH FIRE.

Your turn.

Do you suggest that International Elite play fair, and that game is not rigged BY them FOR them?

[Deborah K]

Americans WEREN'T? Americans DIDN'T?




Americans are so different?

Is not the objective for people to WAKE UP, realize they are being abused WHILE being sold down river, and resolve to TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRIES?

Corporatism is really the issue. Big business in bed with the gov't. And the govt's interference with the free market (by way of the Fed and favoritism). Tinkering with the economy instead of letting freedom of choice rule the day, is what has gotten us in this mess.

[cheapseats]

Again who cares..really...

The entire post was in response to the punish the rich garbage that pukes out of the ignorant mouthes of the socialist brain dead. The Greeks are idiots, they are screaming against reality itself. A total relapse into apehood, instead of observing reality and building a better future, they are screaming out against reality, and making ridiculous demands.


Yeah, I know y'all are very big on COMPARTMENTALIZATION. Speaking of reality, that is NOT how Life works. Even aside from New World Order skullduggery, Life is infuriatingly INTERCONNECTED.

[cheapseats]

Corporatism is really the issue. Big business in bed with the gov't. And the govt's interference with the free market (by way of the Fed and favoritism). Tinkering with the economy instead of letting freedom of choice rule the day, is what has gotten us in this mess.

Corporatism is a SYMPTOM of Big Money calling the shots.

WAR PROFITEERING, fer instance, is not perpetrated by Big Bad Corporations alone. INDIVIDUALS buy military-industrial stocks as "investments."

Tinkering with the economy IS an issue. ABSENCE OF ETHICS is a bigger issue. Control Freaks are bad. UNSCRUPULOUS Control Freaks are much worse.

[Deborah K]

Corporatism is a SYMPTOM of Big Money calling the shots.

WAR PROFITEERING, fer instance, is not perpetrated by Big Bad Corporations alone. INDIVIDUALS buy military-industrial stocks as "investments."

Tinkering with the economy IS an issue. ABSENCE OF ETHICS is a bigger issue. Control Freaks are bad. UNSCRUPULOUS Control Freaks are much worse.

I've always contended that no matter what system is in place, man will eventually succumb to his natural inclination toward domination, and it is our constant challenge to rise above this desire. To the degree that all social systems devolve into eventual tyranny is a testament to our failure to be vigilant to the cause of individual freedom. "Absence of ethics" allows this natural inclination to fester.

[AuH20]

I've always contended that no matter what system is in place, man will eventually succumb to his natural inclination toward domination, and it is our constant challenge to rise above this desire. To the degree that all social systems devolve into eventual tyranny is a testament to our failure to be vigilant to the cause of individual freedom. "Absence of ethics" allows this natural inclination to fester.

Exactly. That's why we are in dire need of decentralization because it's a potential hazard.

[ChaosControl]

Shouldn't have bailed them out.
If they want to change their system to a communist/socialist/whatever system, fine, but don't expect other nations to bail you out if you go bankrupt.

[ChaosControl]

Exactly. That's why we are in dire need of decentralization because it's a potential hazard.

If only the people who actually support legitimate socialism realized that decentralization is also their friend as much as it is the capitalists. Systems work best small and localized. They become corrupted and twisted once they are large scale. So it is in the interest of any economic system for things to be kept local. But I suppose to be fair, it isn't just the socialists who fail to realize this, most capitalists do too.

[Slutter McGee]

The rich are only your enemies if they are rich because of the direct result of government policies, not if they are rich inspite of them.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[cheapseats]

The rich are only your enemies if they are rich because of the direct result of government policies, not if they are rich inspite of them.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee


What if they are rich via lying and cheating, WITHOUT benefit from or with "only" INDIRECT benefit from Institutionalized Favoritism?

America gained nearly THREE HUNDRED BILLIONAIRES via manmade financial "crisis". Median Congressional net worth INCREASED via manmade financial "crisis".

It has been my online experience that younger Libertarians OVERWHELMINGLY have DOLLAR SIGNS in their eyes and that older Libertarians OVERWHELMINGLY attribute their OWN character traits TO their "own" - based "purely" on sound bytes, without ANY supporting behavioral evidence.

Who's minding the ethics of the Tea Party fundraising, by the way? 'Cuz it's a sure that TEA PARTY FINANCES will soon come under a klieg light. I surely do hope Liberty Fundraising ducks are tidily in a row - i's dotted, t's crossed, strict adherence to letter AND SPIRIT of law.

[cheapseats]

If only the people who actually support legitimate socialism realized that decentralization is also their friend as much as it is the capitalists. Systems work best small and localized. They become corrupted and twisted once they are large scale. So it is in the interest of any economic system for things to be kept local. But I suppose to be fair, it isn't just the socialists who fail to realize this, most capitalists do too.

City of Bell District Attorney Steve Cooley arrested all but one City Council member for flagrant corruption. City of Bell has population of fewer than 40,000.

LOCAL and SMALL do NOT automatically safeguard Citizens and Taxpayers.

If you will say YEAH, BUT SEE HOW ARRESTS CAN OCCUR IN A SMALL TOWN, I will say ARRESTING CORRUPT OFFICIALS IS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLED COURAGE, NOT OF THE SIZE OR LOCATION OF THE VENUE IN WHICH THE ABUSE OF POWER OCCURS.

[ChaosControl]

City of Bell District Attorney Steve Cooley arrested all but one City Council member for flagrant corruption. City of Bell has population of fewer than 40,000.

LOCAL and SMALL do NOT automatically safeguard Citizens and Taxpayers.

If you will say YEAH, BUT SEE HOW ARRESTS CAN OCCUR IN A SMALL TOWN, I will say ARRESTING CORRUPT OFFICIALS IS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLED COURAGE, NOT OF THE SIZE OR LOCATION OF THE VENUE IN WHICH THE ABUSE OF POWER OCCURS.

I didn't say corruption doesn't occur in small communities, I just said that things become corrupt once they become large scale. And personally I don't think 40,000 is small enough. I think communities should be more like a few hundred to maybe a couple thousand. Not these ridiculous tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions. Bad stuff happens yes, but it is easier to correct and since things are small and local it doesn't become as widespread.

[ChaosControl]

The rich are only your enemies if they are rich because of the direct result of government policies, not if they are rich inspite of them.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Or if they use their wealth to screw you over. :|
It is as much how they use it as it is how they got it.

[cheapseats]

I've always contended that no matter what system is in place, man will eventually succumb to his natural inclination toward domination, and it is our constant challenge to rise above this desire. To the degree that all social systems devolve into eventual tyranny is a testament to our failure to be vigilant to the cause of individual freedom. "Absence of ethics" allows this natural inclination to fester.

Leaders/Dominators DO naturally arise, but the flip side of that is they CAN arise because NOT everyone wants to dominate. DOMINATING is full-time work. You don't DARE turn your back on the Dominated.

Everyone DOES want to FARE WELL. Plato called it, that man perceives ADVANTAGE in Injustice. People WILL cut corners, people WILL pull fast ones, people WILL trod over others to advance themselves . . . IF THEY CAN. Corrupt Officials and Silent Majorities make it so they CAN.

Human Nature IS Human Nature - it hasn't changed ONE IOTA in millennia. History hardly repeats itself BY itself - history books don't get it into their bindings to alight from shelves and DO the repeating.

Corporate Marauders, Take-No-Prisoner A-Type Personalities, Hoodwinkers & Bamboozlers - they all do what comes NATURALLY to them. CORRUPT OFFICIALS ARE PUBLIC ENEMY NUMERO UNO.

Opposition better this straight, or gain inadequate traction with beleaguered Middle Classes to unseat Obama: THE HONOR SYSTEM IS INADEQUATE SAFEGUARD AGAINST THE VAGARIES OF HUMAN NATURE.

Yes, yes, I KNOW we are drowning in regulations. That's 'cuz they are trying to 1.) TAX & FINE America into prosperity and 2.) keep intact the pecking order that GOT us here. But NO regulations? Yer outta yer cotton-picking minds.

NO REGULATION >> CONSPIRACIES IN RESTRAINT OF TRADE + HOST OF OTHER ABUSES. At the most basic level - TRULY putting 12, not 11, ounces into container marked 12 ounces - left to its own designs and devices, Human Nature is NOT trustworthy.

Right function of a Free Market is predicated on an ABSENCE OF PHILANTHROPISTS (no coerced charity) and an ABSENCE OF THIEVES (no lying, cheating, stealing, scam artistry).

[Brian4Liberty]

Let's not forget that corporatism/cronyism includes lack of enforcement of laws or prosecution of crimes, and a revolving door between the big criminals and the people and departments meant to police them.

[cheapseats]

I didn't say corruption doesn't occur in small communities, I just said that things become corrupt once they become large scale. And personally I don't think 40,000 is small enough. I think communities should be more like a few hundred to maybe a couple thousand. Not these ridiculous tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions. Bad stuff happens yes, but it is easier to correct and since things are small and local it doesn't become as widespread.

Oh, brother. You define your OWN community. I'm talking about a fucking CITY. A CITY of 40,000 is too big to run efficiently and honestly? You would create HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS UNTO MILLIONS OF NEW CITIES - with full administrative and service apparatuses - 'cuz you imagine puny is cozy and goof-proof?

Bernie Madoff wuz a community of ONE -- is THAT small enough for you?

[cheapseats]

Let's not forget that corporatism/cronyism includes lack of enforcement of laws or prosecution of crimes, and a revolving door between the big criminals and the people and departments meant to police them.

I, for one, NEVER forget this.

Libertarians will find more public receptivity for ENFORCING THE LAWS WE HAVE AND PROSECUTING WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS than they will for NO regulation. Without HONEST REGULATORS, all talk of Regulation is pissing at the moon, trying to make it more yellow.



...I just said that things become corrupt once they become large scale...

INCORRECT.

Things become corrupt. Period. End of sentence. Without fail.

SIZE becomes a negative at a certain size, in the same way it became a plus at a certain size. At a certain size, ECONOMIES OF SCALE give way to INEFFICIENCY, REPLICATION & OTHER WASTE.

Things become corrupt when PEOPLE are corrupt.

Corruption becomes large-scale when we ACCOMMODATE corruption. Why WOULDN'T it? Corruption pays very well.

[Travlyr]

:D Counterfeiting pays big bucks! :D

[ChaosControl]

Oh, brother. You define your OWN community. I'm talking about a fucking CITY. A CITY of 40,000 is too big to run efficiently and honestly? You would create HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS UNTO MILLIONS OF NEW CITIES - with full administrative and service apparatuses - 'cuz you imagine puny is cozy and goof-proof?

Bernie Madoff wuz a community of ONE -- is THAT small enough for you?

Stop with the caps, it is annoying. And swearing just makes you look immature.
You say you're not talking about a city, but you specifically mentioned a city.
A community is a group of people, yes we make our own communities. A city should be a community.
It isn't that 40,000 is too large to run efficiently and honestly, it is just that as it grows to that size and larger it becomes more difficult to do so as it is becomes more likely there will be power hungry corrupt people.

And like I said already, a small community is not exempt from corruption, it is just that the more local is easier to manage. You keep ignoring that I say that.

Yes it would mean there would be more communities, more towns, I don't think that is a bad thing. I think a lot of small towns scattered around that are designed to compliment the environment around them is better than the giant concrete jungle cesspools of decadence known as cities.

With small towns, there is less power concentrated into one area, you prevent people from gaining as much power simply because there isn't as much power to be had. Someone like Bernie Madoff, would never have been able to achieve the power to corrupt things had my ideal system been in place. It isn't just small towns, it is the entire system of the nation being decentralized, including the elimination of corporations.

[cheapseats]

Shouldn't have bailed them out.
If they want to change their system to a communist/socialist/whatever system, fine, but don't expect other nations to bail you out if you go bankrupt.

We shouldn't have bailed out Fannie Mae.

We shouldn't have bailed out Freddie Mac.

We shouldn't have bailed out Bear Stearns.

We shouldn't have bailed out A.I.G.

We shouldn't have bailed out Detroit.

We shouldn't have bailed out banks.

We shouldn't have bailed out a LOT of people.

Are you down with NOT raising the debt ceiling, and obliging AMERICA to suck up the repercussions of years of Corruption followed by a BAILOUT BONANZA?

I am, but I do not observe the same backbone in newly elected Tea Partiers.

[cheapseats]

Stop with the caps, it is annoying.

You tellin' me how to post, Faux Libertarian?



And swearing just makes you look immature.

Sez you.

In my book, POLLYANNAS such as yourself are FAR more immature (also naive, unrealistic and, as you say, ANNOYING) than people who cuss.



Oh, brother. You define your OWN community. I'm talking about a fucking CITY.


You say you're not talking about a city, but you specifically mentioned a city.


Quit while you're behind, that's my advice to you.

[ChaosControl]

We shouldn't have bailed out Fannie Mae.

We shouldn't have bailed out Freddie Mac.

We shouldn't have bailed out Bear Stearns.

We shouldn't have bailed out A.I.G.

We shouldn't have bailed out Detroit.

We shouldn't have bailed out banks.

We shouldn't have bailed out a LOT of people.

Are you down with NOT raising the debt ceiling, and obliging AMERICA to suck up the repercussions of years of Corruption followed by a BAILOUT BONANZA?

I am, but I do not observe the same backbone in newly elected Tea Partiers.

I agree, we shouldn't have bailed out any of those things.
We shouldn't raise the debt ceiling, we should be forced to pay for what we have caused as a nation. Ideally I prefer those responsible paying, and not everyone. That means the mega corps, including those places you mentioned, and the politicians they control.

[ChaosControl]

You tellin' me how to post, Faux Libertarian?
I'm not a libertarian. If I'm anything, it is more of a combination of liberal, conservative, and libertarian depending on the specific issue. What I am though is anti-authoritarian. I'm offering advice, not initiating force.


In my book, POLLYANNAS such as yourself are FAR more immature (also naive, unrealistic and, as you say, ANNOYING) than people who cuss.
I don't see anything I've stated that is immature. Care to point it out?


Quit while you're behind, that's my advice to you.
You didn't address anything I said...
Behind what? A discussion that localism is superior in that it offers people the option to live in places where people share their values and can have the government they desire? That localism decentralizes things and prevents power from consolidating therefore limiting corruption? What exactly am I behind in?

[South Park Fan]

Is there any way that libertarians could form a third-position movement to protest both the government's inconsistent, insufficient spending cuts and the unions' entitlements, when this battle inevitably gets foisted upon us (see Wisconsin for evidence)? To take either side in the current battle would be a breach of principle.

[moostraks]

Is there any way that libertarians could form a third-position movement to protest both the government's inconsistent, insufficient spending cuts and the unions' entitlements, when this battle inevitably gets foisted upon us (see Wisconsin for evidence)? To take either side in the current battle would be a breach of principle.

Well said and good idea.