Breaking News - Wisconsin

[Koz]

No Democratic Lawmakers are showing up for the vote for the new union legislation. They have the police out looking for them. They have to have at least one democrat there to vote on the bill.

[hazek]

lol?

[moostraks]

lol...they sent the police? Too good!

[torchbearer]

if they need one democrat in order to vote, couldn't one of the republicans go to the voter registrars office and change his affiliation real quick?

[Nate-ForLiberty]

if they need one democrat in order to vote, couldn't one of the republicans go to the voter registrars office and change his affiliation real quick?

They need at least 20 members of congress present. There are 19 Republicans.

[Koz]

I just hear it on the news that the it was confirmed that the Democrats are 'in hiding.' Ridiculous, don't you think they would want to stand up and represent thier constituents. Apparently if the police find them they are under orders to 'drag them to the statehouse.'

[malkusm]

I just hear it on the news that the it was confirmed that the Democrats are 'in hiding.' Ridiculous, don't you think they would want to stand up and represent thier constituents. Apparently if the police find them they are under orders to 'drag them to the statehouse.'

Is there any precedent to something like this? Seems absolutely incredible to me....

[malkusm]

Also, can anyone from Wisconsin share a link to this story from a local news outlet?

[pahs1994]

I just hear it on the news that the it was confirmed that the Democrats are 'in hiding.' Ridiculous, don't you think they would want to stand up and represent thier constituents. Apparently if the police find them they are under orders to 'drag them to the statehouse.'
can they even do that? I don't know how this works... do the republicans have grounds to vote to expell them now? or does this mean every party will just not show up to vote when they know they will lose from now on?

[Stary Hickory]

Yeah....well vote without them....simply refusing to vote, is not going to cut it. This is a deliberate act, not like it's some snowstorm that prevented them from being present...which is why a rule like that is in place. How low can you go?

Lesson learned...vote out more Democrats, hopefully WI will do just that

[sluggo]

Here's the Yahoo story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions/

[tangent4ronpaul]

I just hear it on the news that the it was confirmed that the Democrats are 'in hiding.' Ridiculous, don't you think they would want to stand up and represent thier constituents. Apparently if the police find them they are under orders to 'drag them to the statehouse.'

Me WANTS VIDEO! lol! :D

[Krugerrand]

Is there any precedent to something like this? Seems absolutely incredible to me....

I've heard of things like this before years back ... but I can't remember the details to find anything specific.

[teacherone]

so the democrats are shutting down government!!

but....that's crazy!

[UtahApocalypse]

well this could cause some serious problems

[hazek]

Here's the Yahoo story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions/

Can you imagine the chaos when TSHTF and the dollar finally crashes what will people like this say:
"We are all willing to come to the table, we've have all been willing from day one," said Madison teacher Rita Miller. "But you can't take A, B, C, D and everything we've worked for in one fell swoop."

Also:
"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch of Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

I guess if you're the minority it's called the end of the democratic process, bwahahahaha.

[Jack Bauer]

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/so_much_win_graphic.png

[RedStripe]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

[low preference guy]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle parasite class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

fixed.

Republicans and Democrats screw everyone all the time, but this time the former are doing the right thing.

[TruePatriot44]

Texas democrats did this a couple years back over redistricting. They all left and took refuge in an Oklahoma Hotel.

[akforme]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

that's a small view look at the situation. On it's face, yes, but why are all these people dependent on government? What happens when governments can't pay their bills and get get loans? I got fired by my best friend because work just stopped coming. Was he trying to hurt me? As for the humor, you can find anything funny. We can't change it, might as well laugh at it.

[Elwar]

Hopefully for Wisconsin the Democrats stay out of state for the rest of the year.

[aGameOfThrones]

The Public sector wants the government to Tax(Steal) more money from the Private sector... because they don't want to pay for their own benefits?

[specsaregood]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

If they don't like the wages their employer (the taxpayer) is offering, then they are free to find a job in the private sector.

[Krugerrand]

I hope their pay is docked for their time in hiding. Their health benefits should be suspended as well.

[moostraks]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

I am not cheering them on. These roaches are two sides of the same coin. I find it amusing they have to flee the police to avoid making a vote. Wonder how it feels to have to be hunted? However sounds like just think themselves above the situation and fancy themselves brilliant at their move. Eventually they will have to face the music.

We are going to see a similar situation in Ohio soon. Our Republican governor is another who is selling out one group to support his cronies. The best I can hope for is people to realize it isn't r or d but the one party system. They had options for a third party here but found them all unelectable. So it will take more pain before people start to wake up to the corruption.

[newbitech]

so the state workers are pissed off because the Governor is doing what is in the best interest of EVERYONE instead of doing what is in the best interest of this small special interest group?

So this is the pro-BIG GOVERNMENT rally right?

[moostraks]

so the state workers are pissed off because the Governor is doing what is in the best interest of EVERYONE instead of doing what is in the best interest of this small special interest group?

So this is the pro-BIG GOVERNMENT rally right?

It is a politically popular move by Republican governors right now. Don't be so quick to decide it is all right or wrong from one side. Ohio's wants to do the same thing but has no problem wasting money on his own friends and privileges.

[fiddler1]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic. I pay taxes in Kenosha, Wisconsin. My property values just went down. My property taxes went up almost 10% The school system here just had a budget increase of almost 10% from last year.. The teachers just got a raise. Who is getting screwed? I AM. I think the middle class includes me..

info:

Teachers in Kenosha Unified on the average earned $53,860 annually, according to data from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction for 2008-09 This year, the average salary for a teacher is $56,594.61 with an average of $32,580.59 in benefits, according to the district.

And they are whining? Iam totally ticked off... Get a clue

[RedStripe]

fixed.

Republicans and Democrats screw everyone all the time, but this time the former are doing the right thing.

You really don't understand, at a fundamental level, how this economy actually works do you?

If you think anyone but the top 5% of Americans are the parasites you are simply ignorant.

Oh and I love how people on this forum love attacking public service workers who actually provide services organized by a remotely democratically representative government body (state) and only a few threads away fawns over people receiving federal paychecks for carrying around a gun in foreign countries.

[newbitech]

It is a politically popular move by Republican governors right now. Don't be so quick to decide it is all right or wrong from one side. Ohio's wants to do the same thing but has no problem wasting money on his own friends and privileges.


I just want to be clear. These are people who don't contribute to their own retirement, make 50k+ an hour, and have their health care paid for. The post right above mine shows these folks, teachers, are compensated about 90k a year. The state is broke and in debt. I would think that a teacher would be able to figure out the math. There is no money to keep paying your salary and benefits, so the Governor is doing the only thing he can do, reduce compensation by eliminating the right to walk off the job to force being paid and still keep your job.

These people need to realize that the money is not there, and by shutting down the State services and holding those services hostage, they are in effect demanding the governor to raise taxes on everyone else.

Just saying, this is a pro-big government rally. These people are pissed, but do they realize that the only way to make the math work is to raise taxes for everyone else? I hope they get their way so that the other 80-90% of their fellow citizens in that state will realize that they cannot afford those services. Then maybe we'll see some competition in things like schools, libraries, etc etc..

[Elwar]

You really don't understand, at a fundamental level, how this economy actually works do you?

If you think anyone but the top 5% of Americans are the parasites you are simply ignorant.

Oh and I love how people on this forum love attacking public service workers who actually provide services organized by a remotely democratically representative government body (state) and only a few threads away fawns over people receiving federal paychecks for carrying around a gun in foreign countries.

My fire department and garbage service is private. My water and electric are also private.

Until all of these services are privatized everywhere, government is bloated.

And there are plenty of other public services that could be privatized, I just don't happen to live in a place with more.

[RedStripe]

The Public sector wants the government to Tax(Steal) more money from the Private sector... because they don't want to pay for their own benefits?

Close your eyes for a moment and imagine that the government is just a giant corporation collecting rent/interest from us all... illusory public/private sector distinction gone. Corporations have power because they rely on government force. Governments have power because they rely on government force. You're living in a fantasy land if you think there's a real difference.

[low preference guy]

Oh and I love how people on this forum love attacking public service workers who actually provide services organized by a remotely democratically representative government body (state) and only a few threads away fawns over people receiving federal paychecks for carrying around a gun in foreign countries.

Who? Definitely not me.

[RedStripe]

If they don't like the wages their employer (the taxpayer) is offering, then they are free to find a job in the private sector.

Out of one corner of your mouth you want to argue that these people are economically "free" to find other ways of making a living. Out of the other corner of your mouth you want to argue about how heavily restricted the middle class is, economically-speaking, by regulations and taxes. Which is it?

[RedStripe]

My fire department and garbage service is private. My water and electric are also private.

Until all of these services are privatized everywhere, government is bloated.

And there are plenty of other public services that could be privatized, I just don't happen to live in a place with more.

Oh right, I totally forgot how corporations are private, free market entities. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

[low preference guy]

Oh right, I totally forgot how corporations are private, free market entities. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

*facepalm*

a corporation is a group of people who get together to achieve some objective. that's perfectly fine, and they're free market entities. are you a communist?

are you saying communism=free market?

[civusamericanus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTMCgVfrWqU

[Flash]

*facepalm*

a corporation is a group of people who get together to achieve some objective. that's perfectly fine, and they're free market entities. are you a communist?

are you saying communism=free market?

Companies /=/ Corporations. Corporations are an entity that exists independently of it's owners. I don't see how corporations would exist in a truly free market.

[moostraks]

I just want to be clear. These are people who don't contribute to their own retirement, make 50k+ an hour, and have their health care paid for. The post right above mine shows these folks, teachers, are compensated about 90k a year. The state is broke and in debt. I would think that a teacher would be able to figure out the math. There is no money to keep paying your salary and benefits, so the Governor is doing the only thing he can do, reduce compensation by eliminating the right to walk off the job to force being paid and still keep your job.

These people need to realize that the money is not there, and by shutting down the State services and holding those services hostage, they are in effect demanding the governor to raise taxes on everyone else.

Just saying, this is a pro-big government rally. These people are pissed, but do they realize that the only way to make the math work is to raise taxes for everyone else? I hope they get their way so that the other 80-90% of their fellow citizens in that state will realize that they cannot afford those services. Then maybe we'll see some competition in things like schools, libraries, etc etc..

I agree with your sentiment and understand your position. However, is this specifically targeted at bloated pay or just the union groups that would not be responsible for enforcing/dealing with riot type issues? I was under the impression this was a sweeping declaration against everyone but police and fire (who supposedly also benefited this man's election). That includes a great deal of people more than your standard teacher. They make the rules to benefit themselves not because they are supporting the public outcry. The governors are no different than the rest of the crooks in Washington.

[Cowlesy]

These poor union workers. They're going to have to pay in a small percentage of their wages for their healthcare and lucrative pension plans that'll pay out vastly more than they'll ever contribute all the while backstopped by the taxpayer. Meanwhile, all the private sector workers ponying up to their 401(k) have no backstop from the taxpayer.

I am just tearing up over this. These poor, poor workers.

[ravedown]

My fire department and garbage service is private. My water and electric are also private.

Until all of these services are privatized everywhere, government is bloated.

And there are plenty of other public services that could be privatized, I just don't happen to live in a place with more.

wow- do you live in galts gulch?

[Flash]

My fire department and garbage service is private. My water and electric are also private.

Is your local landfill controlled by the city? Or is it privately-owned?

[low preference guy]

Companies /=/ Corporations. Corporations are an entity that exists independently of it's owners. I don't see how corporations would exist in a truly free market.

they can exist through contracts. you might have some disagreements with the current legal framework but they can perfectly arise through contracts.

first, the owners have a contract too put together some of their wealth to some use. they also specify what are the rules of transferring of ownership and transferring of responsibilities. why don't you think that corporations could come to be through contracts? what makes them "non-free market"?

[moostraks]

*facepalm*

a corporation is a group of people who get together to achieve some objective. that's perfectly fine, and they're free market entities. are you a communist?

are you saying communism=free market?

"When most people hear the word "fascism" they naturally think of its ugly racism and anti-Semitism as practiced by the totalitarian regimes of Mussolini and Hitler. But there was also an economic policy component of fascism, known in Europe during the 1920s and '30s as "corporatism," that was an essential ingredient of economic totalitarianism as practiced by Mussolini and Hitler. So- called corporatism was adopted in Italy and Germany during the 1930s and was held up as a "model" by quite a few intellectuals and policy makers in the United States and Europe. A version of economic fascism was in fact adopted in the United States in the 1930s and survives to this day. In the United States these policies were not called "fascism" but "planned capitalism." The word fascism may no longer be politically acceptable, but its synonym "industrial policy" is as popular as ever....

Virtually all of the specific economic policies advocated by the Italian and German fascists of the 1930s have also been adopted in the United States in some form, and continue to be adopted to this day. Sixty years ago, those who adopted these interventionist policies in Italy and Germany did so because they wanted to destroy economic liberty, free enterprise, and individualism. Only if these institutions were abolished could they hope to achieve the kind of totalitarian state they had in mind.

Many American politicians who have advocated more or less total government control over economic activity have been more devious in their approach. They have advocated and adopted many of the same policies, but they have always recognized that direct attacks on private property, free enterprise, self-government, and individual freedom are not politically palatable to the majority of the American electorate. Thus, they have enacted a great many tax, regulatory, and income-transfer policies that achieve the ends of economic fascism, but which are sugar-coated with deceptive rhetoric about their alleged desire only to "save" capitalism.

American politicians have long taken their cue in this regard from Franklin D. Roosevelt, who sold his National Recovery Administration (which was eventually ruled unconstitutional) on the grounds that "government restrictions henceforth must be accepted not to hamper individualism but to protect it." In a classic example of Orwellian doublespeak, Roosevelt thus argued that individualism must be destroyed in order to save it.

Now that socialism has collapsed and survives nowhere but in Cuba, China, Vietnam, and on American university campuses, the biggest threat to economic liberty and individual freedom lies in the new economic fascism. While the former Communist countries are trying to privatize as many industries as possible as fast as they can, they are still plagued by governmental controls, leaving them with essentially fascist economies: private property and private enterprise are permitted, but are heavily controlled and regulated by government...."

Economic Fascism

by Thomas J. DiLorenzo http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeker/1994archive/121_3/ts213l.html

[libertybrewcity]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

You are very wrong. The bill only affects state workers unions, not private unions. The state workers, especially the omnipotent teachers union has bled the state dry over the years. Private workers have paid something like 8 billion dollars to teacher pensions while the teachers have only paid 300 million. They only work 8 months out of the year and still get insanely good benefits for their entire family. I should know, my mother is a wisconsin teacher.

[BamaAla]

They are showing the protests on T.V. now. A real fine look bunch...

[Elwar]

Is your local landfill controlled by the city? Or is it privately-owned?

From what I've heard there are several landfills all over the county. You buy a lot of land, ask for a zoning variance for a landfill and you've got one...

I haven't been to one yet though.

As for garbage service being corporate owned. I'm sure mine is an LLC. But I have seen a guy driving around in a truck with about 6 garbage cans on the back. He drives up to a house, drops off an empty and picks up a full one. Goes out and empties them at the landfill and keeps on going. There's probably not much reason for him to form an LLC other than for tax purposes.

[libertybrewcity]

does anyone know what happens if they never come back? I am sure it would negatively affect democrats in the state elections over time, but is this illegal? Apparently the police are looking for them.

[newbitech]

they need to take that money they pay in union dues and put it towards health care or invest in a 401k. Heck if they were really thinking, they'd buy some PM's with those union dues. From what I have read, teachers are compelled to pay up to 1,100 a year in dues. So take that money and put it towards your retirement. 30 years of 1100 a year is 33,000.

[Mark37snj]

I would keep bringing this up for a vote every single day and keep the Liberals at home full time, lol.

[Jack Bauer]

I would keep bringing this up for a vote every single day and keep the Liberals at home full time, lol.

lol

[archangel689]

Is there any precedent to something like this? Seems absolutely incredible to me....

Yes... It's called a call of the house... it's normal and allowed for under most parliamentary procedures, including Roberts Rules. It's for when assholes dont want to show up and therefore you can't do any business because you can't obtain a quorum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum#Call_of_the_house_.28compelled_attendance.2 9

The call of the house procedure may be used if necessary to obtain a quorum in legislatures and other assemblies that have the legal power to compel the attendance of their members. The procedure does not exist in ordinary societies, since voluntary associations have no coercive power. The call of the house "is a motion that unexcused absent members be brought to the meeting under arrest." The call of the house procedure is governed by the rules of the assembly, which may provide that one-third, one-fifth, or some other number less than a majority present may order a call of the house by majority vote. Under Robert's Rules, when a quorum is not present, the motion takes precedence over every motion except that to adjourn. But "if the rule allows the call to be moved while a quorum is actually present (for the purpose of obtaining a greater attendance), the motion at such times should rank only with questions of privilege, should require a majority vote for adoption, and, if rejected, may not be renewed while a quorum is present."[8]

[Elwar]

wow- do you live in galts gulch?

I live in an unincorporated area far away from the county capital. The only public service the county provides us is police and schools (and probably the library).

And my taxes are quite low.

[Elwar]

From what I've heard there are several landfills all over the county. You buy a lot of land, ask for a zoning variance for a landfill and you've got one...

I haven't been to one yet though.

As for garbage service being corporate owned. I'm sure mine is an LLC. But I have seen a guy driving around in a truck with about 6 garbage cans on the back. He drives up to a house, drops off an empty and picks up a full one. Goes out and empties them at the landfill and keeps on going. There's probably not much reason for him to form an LLC other than for tax purposes.

Edit: now that I think about it, I believe our electricity is created from our garbage...

[lester1/2jr]

The Grey Poupon Riot. Millions out of work and they are upset about cuts to their BENEFITS

[archangel689]

Yeah....well vote without them....simply refusing to vote, is not going to cut it. This is a deliberate act, not like it's some snowstorm that prevented them from being present...which is why a rule like that is in place. How low can you go?

Lesson learned...vote out more Democrats, hopefully WI will do just that

They CAN'T if they don't have a quorum, it breaks the rules and dems will correctly claim that no regular business can be done without quorum (even if they arent there and are being assholes, you still cant pass anything--you have to bring them there by force to vote by a call of the house)... there are MANY good reasons for requiring a quorum.


They got on a bus, left and went to another state. Where call of the house doesn't work, theres no jurisdiction for it....

You're screwed. Total Deadlock.

[angelatc]

These poor union workers. They're going to have to pay in a small percentage of their wages for their healthcare and lucrative pension plans that'll pay out vastly more than they'll ever contribute all the while backstopped by the taxpayer. Meanwhile, all the private sector workers ponying up to their 401(k) have no backstop from the taxpayer.

I am just tearing up over this. These poor, poor workers.

From a closeted union conservative, posting in another forum:
We are jokingly calling ourselves The 5th Column like the counter insurgents on the “V” TV show. The unions are scared to death they will lose their gravy train, you are forced to join the union upon state employment as a condition of employment, what is more tyrannical than that? So, now, the workers would be able to CHOOSE to join the union or not, and many will leave it. The rest will have to cut an actual check to the union each month, instead of having it garnished from their check, and the union knows people will get tired of that. THAT is what this is really about.

Our benefit package in WI is 2nd to none in the US for state workers, this is a minor sacrifice when all is said and done. Under our former Democratic Governor, we had to take a 3% paycut the last two years in the form of mandatory furloughs. Walker intends to stop that, so we could regain that money, couple that with union dues we get back for quitting the union and it’s nearly a wash on the slight increase in pension and health care costs. That proves this is not about those changes, but about a political agenda by the left and the unions being threatened.

[angelatc]

I live in an unincorporated area far away from the county capital. The only public service the county provides us is police and schools (and probably the library).

And my taxes are quite low.

Me too. We have well water, a septic tank and private garbage. We even get to choose our natural gas supplier. We don't have police - the country provides that.

[angelatc]

They CAN'T if they don't have a quorum, it breaks the rules and dems will correctly claim that no regular business can be done without quorum (even if they arent there and are being assholes, you still cant pass anything--you have to bring them there by force to vote by a call of the house)... there are MANY good reasons for requiring a quorum.


They got on a bus, left and went to another state. Where call of the house doesn't work, theres no jurisdiction for it....

You're screwed. Total Deadlock.

The governor should start firing the workers who aren't showing up.

[Elwar]

Sounds like we've just solved our unemployment problem...

A whole lot of open positions up in Wisconsin!!! Have at it!

[angelatc]

Sounds like we've just solved our unemployment problem...

A whole lot of open positions up in Wisconsin!!! Have at it!

Worked with the air traffic controllers....

[archangel689]

Declare their seats vacant and call for an emergency election... :D

[trey4sports]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

:rolleyes: right

[VBRonPaulFan]

I would keep bringing this up for a vote every single day and keep the Liberals at home full time, lol.

hahahah +rep.

I agree with most here. They already have excellent compensation packages, and they're asked to take a small cut while millions are out of work. Don't be angry at me for not shedding a tear for these guys.

[Mark37snj]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

If you really want to see the middle class being screwed over you should come to New Jersey. The Unions here make outragous money compared to their counterparts in the private sector and have lower work performance. The middle class in NJ is being and has been for many years screwed by their high salarais and pensions. Our property taxes are the highest in the nation and have been so for a very long time.

[fcmagic01]

What is everyone's few on this?

Our YAL group at UW-Madison is pretty split.

[Chieppa1]

If you really want to see the middle class being screwed over you should come to New Jersey. The Unions here make outragous money compared to their counterparts in the private sector and have lower work performance. The middle class in NJ is being and has been for many years screwed by their high salarais and pensions. Our property taxes are the highest in the nation and have been so for a very long time.

This. Problem in Jersey is everywhere you look there is a state employee. There aren't enough private sector people to make a difference. 50% of the people I went to college with went to be teachers. Now I have to listen to them bitch every two minutes.

[Chieppa1]

What is everyone's few on this?

Our YAL group at UW-Madison is pretty split.

How? Unions have sucked the state dry. A.K.A, people have been forceful stealing from their neighbor for too long. These people have families, I get it, but when you look them in the eye and tell them the strain they have on EVERYONE ELSE they don't care. I have no remorse for people willing to live off the theft of others.

[Mark37snj]

This. Problem in Jersey is everywhere you look there is a state employee. There aren't enough private sector people to make a difference. 50% of the people I went to college with went to be teachers. Now I have to listen to them bitch every two minutes.

qft Our State Goverment is WAY too big. I would say NJ has to go on a diet but I don't think Christie would have much credibility in the diet department. :D

[AuH20]

Many public sector unions are guaranteed 10% pension increases from year to year regardless of our dire financial environment. They literally own the so-called "arbitrators." They're basically cowardly thieves. On a moral plane, they're just as bad as the banksters. There is very little difference in their behavior. They steal as much as they can get away with little remorse.

[Koz]

fixed.

Republicans and Democrats screw everyone all the time, but this time the former are doing the right thing.

Good fix.

[UtahApocalypse]

Yes... It's called a call of the house... it's normal and allowed for under most parliamentary procedures, including Roberts Rules. It's for when assholes dont want to show up and therefore you can't do any business because you can't obtain a quorum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum#Call_of_the_house_.28compelled_attendance.2 9

The call of the house procedure may be used if necessary to obtain a quorum in legislatures and other assemblies that have the legal power to compel the attendance of their members. The procedure does not exist in ordinary societies, since voluntary associations have no coercive power. The call of the house "is a motion that unexcused absent members be brought to the meeting under arrest." The call of the house procedure is governed by the rules of the assembly, which may provide that one-third, one-fifth, or some other number less than a majority present may order a call of the house by majority vote. Under Robert's Rules, when a quorum is not present, the motion takes precedence over every motion except that to adjourn. But "if the rule allows the call to be moved while a quorum is actually present (for the purpose of obtaining a greater attendance), the motion at such times should rank only with questions of privilege, should require a majority vote for adoption, and, if rejected, may not be renewed while a quorum is present."[8]

Thisd could get very interesting depending how it develops.

[S.Shorland]

Lincoln reportedly jumped from a window to escape a quorum.I watched it in a Tom DiLorenzo video but forget the details.If you are part of a 'participating library' you can read about it here!
http://www.jstor.org/pss/40189470

[specsaregood]

Thisd could get very interesting depending how it develops.

I hope they put out warrants for their arrest and drag them back in handcuffs.

[Ninja Homer]

So what can be done? Here's the Wisconsin constitution: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/bb/05bb/191-242.pdf

"Filling vacancies. SECTION 14. The governor shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies as may occur in either house of the legislature."

[malkusm]

So what can be done? Here's the Wisconsin constitution: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lrb/bb/05bb/191-242.pdf

"Filling vacancies. SECTION 14. The governor shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies as may occur in either house of the legislature."

So, is there a pre-determined amount of time that constitutes a 'vacancy'?

[Koz]

Well, here it is they are all in Illinois.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/116390569.html

This is going to be really interesting how this plays out.

[2young2vote]

Are state employees allowed to go on strike or protest in Wisconsin? I know in Michigan the state employees aren't allowed to skip work to strike. They legally cannot stop working. My teachers seemed to constantly be protesting or on strike or whatever (they wear little stickers on their shirts while at school), so their protests seemed kind of pointless.

[Koz]

I wonder if they can be fired for job abandonment?

[gls]

I wonder if they can be fired for job abandonment?

I doubt it; refusing to vote on controversial bills is the first step to becoming President (if Obama's rise is any indication).

[aravoth]

no counter protest? That sucks..

[Ninja Homer]

So, is there a pre-determined amount of time that constitutes a 'vacancy'?

I didn't see anything about it, but I didn't read the whole constitution. My guess is they expected that the legislators would be adults, and not throw a tantrum and flee the state when they didn't get their way.

If the governor issues writs of election, my guess would be that the missing legislators would have to return in order to put a stop to it.

[nateerb]

no counter protest? That sucks..

Nope. Just a brief mention to "email your support" from my former Milwaukee County Republican Party twit, then on to the usual "support our neocon roster of shitbags":

Hello fellow Republicans of the Milwaukee North Branch of the Republican Party of Milwaukee County. Are next meeting is on Monday, Feb. 21, at 7:00 p.m. at the Barnes and Nobles in Mayfair. Please join us to discuss how we can grow our membership.

Here are your new officers as elected at the caucus:

Chairman—Sam Hagedorn
First Vice Chairman—James McFarland
Second Vice Chairman—John Rinehart
Secretary/Treasurer—Kyle Maichle
At Large Member of Board—Tom Parks
At Large Member of Board—John Kittelson

CALL YOUR SENATOR AND REPRESENTATIVE (AND E-MAIL THE GOVERNOR)

Register your support for Governor Walker’s Budget Repair Bill which would reduce bargaining rights for public employees. It is time we take away the unions’ abilities to extort Cadillac benefits and excessive pay increases while the rest of us are suffering cuts in benefits and wages or unemployment. Don’t let the Democrats (who represent most of us) get away with claiming everyone in their districts is against this. Register your opinion. Let the Governor know you support it as well. I’ve even e-mailed the Senate Majority Leader, Scott Fitzgerald, and the Speaker of the Assembly, Jeff Fitzgerald, letting them know I am a Republican activist who supports this. It is the only way we will get our budget problems out of control. Let them know you are appalled by the Senate Democrats’ shirking of their duties and boycotting the session. Republicans did not do that when the Democrats rammed through tax increases behind closed doors during the last two years. Follow this link to find the phone number of your Senator and Representative (or find out who they are if you don’t know): http://www.wisconsin.gov/state/core/government.html

Reagan Birthday Dinner: Friday, Feb. 25, Serb Hall, 5:30 Cocktails, 7:00 dinner, Senator Ron Johnson, speaker—return your form to attend today—you should have received it in the mail some time ago

Sat., 3/5/11— RPMC Caucus, 9:00 a.m, RPMC Headquarters (1484 S. 84th St.)
Sat., 3/26/11—4th Congressional District Republican Party Caucus, 9:00 a.m., Milwaukee Athletic Center
Tues., 4/5/11—General Election, Vote for Jeff Stone for County Executive and Justice David Prosser

Speaking of the election, the good news is Rep. Jeff Stone, the only conservative candidate for County Executive, had the most votes in the primary. The bad news is he had only 44%, so more people voted for others. Our work is cut out for us. Chris Abele is spending a massive amount of his own money to get elected, pretending to be a moderate, independent, outsider, when the truth is he is a raving liberal. Help Jeff Stone.

Please consider making phone calls for him at the campaign office on 84th and Bluemound in the building in which Bruegger’s Bagels exists. Contribute to his campaign. Go to campaign fundraisers. We do not need to return to the bad old days when Democrats regularly increased the county portion of the property tax levy. It is bad enough that Mayor Barrett and the school board does it to us.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I'm glad I am getting out of here in a few months. Unions shouldn't even exist for State-employees. They are all ready in a 'union' it's called the Taxpayers and if you want more benefits then vote for people who will steal more from people. Personally, I would love to see Walker just abolish all the public schools and slash taxes massively. RedStripe again totally clueless. A parasite is any net RECEIVER of tax money, and corporations and State-employees are as such (and I am including myself as a parasite). Of course he takes a Marxian view of class analysis which is flawed on its face, when he should be using the Classical Liberal class analysis. Good on Scott for taking on these thugs.

[Cowlesy]

no counter protest? That sucks..

They're all at work.

[Southron]

This is entertaining.

[pcosmar]

So they haven't caught found any of them yet?

Apparently the police are inept as well. (do they have a union?)

:(

[QueenB4Liberty]

Ok hold on. So apparently Wisconsin isn't in a budget deficit at all? They apparently have a surplus of $56 million leftover? According to this: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

Someone tell me where I'm wrong?

[AlienLanes82]

A parasite is any net RECEIVER of tax money, and corporations and State-employees are as such (and I am including myself as a parasite).

What about contractors whose primary contracts are with the government? Those who pave roads, build government buildings? Also a bunch of parasites, presumably?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

What about contractors whose primary contracts are with the government? Those who pave roads, build government buildings? Also a bunch of parasites, presumably?

Yes. That is why many States in early America outlawed any public funds going for internal improvements because they saw the corruption, the horrible products they received, and because it requires more tax and bigger Gov. Many times these companies have large shareholders whom are in the Government who give out these things to enrich themselves. Say no to tax. Say yes to the market.

[AlienLanes82]

Say no to tax.

So you're an anarchist? If not, how do you fund government? Why did Ron Paul suggest a 10% tax rate at CPAC if it were just as simple as "say no to tax"?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

So you're an anarchist? If not, how do you fund government? Why did Ron Paul suggest a 10% tax rate at CPAC if it were just as simple as "say no to tax"?

Yes, I am a voluntaryist. The services Government monopolizes can be provided for in the market through voluntary interaction. Besides, this isn't a thread for that -- the point is Government at all levels is a giant redistributer. It has no money of itself. The Government is a socialist institution.

That quote from Ron was rhetorical. He elaborated upon it on I think Morning Joe a few days ago.

[Jack Bauer]

So you're an anarchist? If not, how do you fund government? Why did Ron Paul suggest a 10% tax rate at CPAC if it were just as simple as "say no to tax"?

I am not sure what Austrian Econ Disciple means by tax but to me, tax is synonymous with the federal income tax.

For a large part of history, the US did not have the income tax but had revenue tariffs and that is how the federal government was funded.

In that context, at least, say no to tax.

[AlienLanes82]

Points well made. Consider this interlude terminated and let us return to the much more exciting events in Wisconsin.

[libertybrewcity]

What is everyone's few on this?

Our YAL group at UW-Madison is pretty split.

How can the YAL group possibly be split over this? The Wisconsin unions have been abusing their bargaining privileges for decades. The state will go completely bankrupt if they continue without some regulation.

[Jack Bauer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxKk3DSW6Sk&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

[pcosmar]

Screw it.
Personally I can't wait for states to go tits up. Starting with my own, Michigan. Screw the half steps and quick fixes. GO BROKE.

I can not wait for the tax feeders checks to bounce and offices to close.
No paychecks for cops. clerks schools or welfare.

It will not affect me at all, and folks might even wake to a brighter morning.

[torchbearer]

Screw it.
Personally I can't wait for states to go tits up. Starting with my own, Michigan. Screw the half steps and quick fixes. GO BROKE.

I can not wait for the tax feeders checks to bounce and offices to close.
No paychecks for cops. clerks schools or welfare.

It will not affect me at all, and folks might even wake to a brighter morning.

i wanted to rep ya, but aparently, i haven't been egalitarian enough with my rep giving.
+1 internets instead.

[Trigonx]

Ok hold on. So apparently Wisconsin isn't in a budget deficit at all? They apparently have a surplus of $56 million leftover? According to this: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

Someone tell me where I'm wrong?

That's what they think(or the word they use "project") will be there on June 30th, 2011


and if you read further, you'd notice Wisconsin owes money but was not included on that table

There are two items, not included in Table 1, which would reduce the general fund balance
if payment is made in the 2010-11 fiscal year. Those items are discussed below.

Minnesota/Wisconsin Income Tax Reciprocity Payment. On September 18, 2009,
Minnesota's Governor informed Wisconsin's Governor that Minnesota was terminating the two
states' income tax reciprocity agreement as of tax year 2010 (beginning January 1, 2010).
Therefore, the agreement last applied to tax year 2009. Because more individuals live in
Wisconsin and earn income in Minnesota than live in Minnesota and earn income in Wisconsin,
Wisconsin's estimated net payment to Minnesota due on December 1, 2010, for tax year 2009,
was $58.7 million. In addition, under the agreement, interest is applied to late payments. The
daily interest cost owed to Minnesota is $4,584. To date, these payments have not been made.

Patients Compensation Fund. On July 20, 2010, the State Supreme Court ruled that the
state cannot transfer monies out of the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund (Fund).
In the 2007-09 state budget, $200 million was transferred from the Fund to advantage the general
fund. The Court remanded the case to the circuit court with directions that the $200 million,
with lost earnings and interest, be placed in the Fund. To date, the circuit court has not
established an amount or date of payment.

[jmdrake]

Is there any precedent to something like this? Seems absolutely incredible to me....


Texas democrats tried this to avoid redistricting under Tom Delay.

[angelatc]

no counter protest? That sucks..

Absolutely. The unions will bus in people from all over that part of the country. The conservatives aren't anywhere near that organized.

[olehounddog]

So they haven't caught found any of them yet?

Apparently the police are inept as well. (do they have a union?)

:(


Yes. On one of the shows earlier a reporter was saying how the protesters were in complete control of the state house. The cops were just standing around. He made the comment that 1 of the cops said "hey, I'm in a union too".

[Chester Copperpot]

Is there any precedent to something like this? Seems absolutely incredible to me....

YOu never heard of the incident of a bunch of congressman (including abe lincoln) jumping out of windows to avoid voting on a measure once?

He broke his leg i think.

[Koz]

I doubt it; refusing to vote on controversial bills is the first step to becoming President (if Obama's rise is any indication).

I was talking about the teachers.

[Kylie]

I'm of a mind that there should be no collective bargaining when it comes to my tax dollars.

If you get paid from money that is taken from me, then you should be able to bargain on your own. You should be responsible for only yourself when it comes time to show if you are worth the money that I am paying you. This would help significantly with ridding the school system of shitty teachers(and we all know there are some shitty teachers out there, my boy had one last year).

Private sector unions- yes.

Public sector unions- no.

Keeps everyone honest and allows the cream to rise to the top(of the payscale, that is). I've always leaned more towards non-union jobs, and it was because I didn't want to be part of the collective. I am better at my job than most of the others, so why would I want to be lumped in with them or help them keep their jobs when they suck at it? I also bargained for myself, and usually got a better pay rate because I had more experience and did the job better than anyone around me.

I am an individual and expect to be treated as such. Why should I not have that expectation from people who get paid with my tax money?

[ItsTime]

What a bunch of cowards.

[specsaregood]

Keeps everyone honest and allows the cream to rise to the top(of the payscale, that is). I've always leaned more towards non-union jobs, and it was because I didn't want to be part of the collective. I am better at my job than most of the others, so why would I want to be lumped in with them or help them keep their jobs when they suck at it?

Yeah, unions weren't created and don't exist for people like yourself or jobs that require special talents.

[tangent4ronpaul]

They found the Dem senators - they are hiding in a Holiday Inn in Illinois.

Obama is sticking his nose in the situation - like he has any authority to do that and considering his track record... :rolleyes: but the unions are his main base, so Constitution be dammed!

The good news is that a lot of Dem Senators in WI can look forward to pink slips next election.

-t

[Slutter McGee]

Republicans trying to screw over the middle class again and all I see on this forum is people cheering them on. Pathetic.

What a stupid statement. You do realize that this is a fight over "public" unions being able to screw over the taxpayer with outrageous pensions and benefits far exceeding what can be earned in the private sector.

Slutter McGee

[Slutter McGee]

Texas democrats tried this to avoid redistricting under Tom Delay.

The thing we need to remember is that it worked. The bill eventually died.
Hopefully Wisconsin will stand strong.

Slutter McGee

[Stary Hickory]

I am routing for WI, we have to start to tackle the unions. The financial state of our nation depends on it. At the state level it has to happen.

[kahless]

What a stupid statement. You do realize that this is a fight over "public" unions being able to screw over the taxpayer with outrageous pensions and benefits far exceeding what can be earned in the private sector.

Slutter McGee

Yeah, wtf. He also says Marxism is worthly of consideration. Although I have not read all his posts, considering his Anarchist avatar and a few comments I read, I am going to take a guess he is a Socialist-Anarchist, Communist Anarchist or Left-wing anarchist. All whom reject private property rights and probably like some other posters here just support RP on foreign policy.

[Chieppa1]

I am routing for WI, we have to start to tackle the unions. The financial state of our nation depends on it. At the state level it has to happen.

WI and NJ. Good signs.

[puppetmaster]

just heard the mayor of San Jose California say they were out of money...they have a 110 million dollar deficit just for the city......WOW. He said he was sorry to have to tell them this but there is no more money!.....

happening everywhere

[Chieppa1]

Steve Lonegan, Ron Paul endorsed candidate for governor in NJ will be on FOX Business tonight at 5 talking about WI. No one better to talk about the damage of the Teacher's Union then someone from New Jersey.

[Stary Hickory]

just heard the mayor of San Jose California say they were out of money...they have a 110 million dollar deficit just for the city......WOW. He said he was sorry to have to tell them this but there is no more money!.....

happening everywhere

Doesn't matter man, it's illegal to be bankrupt! So it can't happen, cover your ears and scream nana nana man....pretend it can't happen. Might as well pass a law saying it may not rain during the month of April...this has gotten damn absurd.

[aravoth]

They're all at work.

ahh, I forgot that someone was actually paying for the benefits that the union is demanding.

[coastie]

ahh, I forgot that someone was actually paying for the benefits that the union is demanding.


Innocent mistake nowadays, after all, the government pays them, not the taxpayers.;)


/s

I seriously had someone say that to me the other day, and is the root mindset of 100% of the supporting the strikers.

Saw the MSM showing the people with signs saying things such as 'This is our Egypt" "Walk like an Egyptian" and this winner "This is NOT about $$$, this is about our RIGHTS".:confused::eek:

Holy fucking face-palm batman, we're in deep, deep trouble if the counter protests don't start happening, yesterday, and this gains traction with the sheep thinking they're rebelling against "oppression"(it already is).

On a bright note, I was astonished while scanning through the MSM propaganda shows that numerous talking heads were pointing out "our" side(i.e. the obvious truth) in regards to the overblown salaries and pensions, one program even ran an entire segment on the Cali state union getting "air time", buying five years worth of time ("work") towards their pensions, iow getting paid for five years of work that never happened.:eek:

[Matt Collins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PodrQoXWQlg&feature=player_embedded

[eduardo89]

Mods: shouldn't we merge all the Wisconsin threads together? There are like 5 active right now on just the first page of General Politics...

[Ninja Homer]

Saw the MSM showing the people with signs saying things such as 'This is our Egypt" "Walk like an Egyptian" and this winner "This is NOT about $$$, this is about our RIGHTS".:confused::eek:

I've seen a lot of that too. These people are too stupid to realize that what they're protesting for is the exact opposite of Egypt.

[Pericles]

I've seen a lot of that too. These people are too stupid to realize that what they're protesting for is the exact opposite of Egypt.

+1 and rep

[silentshout]

I wish this was a protest about extending the Patriot Act or the "see something, say something" bs, or the wars (what are those? ha). Pretty sad.

[Fredom101]

This is like something out of Monte Python!

[Matt Collins]

Governor Walker of Wisconsin is lying about the union problem:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFDyqqdwPo

[awake]

Where is the democracy when you only allow a vote if it goes in your favor, otherwise go into hiding like cockroaches....Oh yea, democracy is not really all that important to the preachers of it as a principled system of "self government".

'I'm all for democracy so long as the vote comes out the way we want', which is why you will never get to vote on the idea of democracy itself, should we have it, or not - never ever can you vote yourself out of it.

[Matt Collins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVJM5s8GzJ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRVZYzfxgI&feature=related