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View Full Version : CBS exposé on federal fishing regulators - Fined Fisherman $19,000 for Catching 20 fish




emazur
02-16-2011, 09:03 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/16/eveningnews/main20032336.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

Saw this on the news tonight - there aren't enough stories like this going after government regulatory agencies:

Now dozens of New England fishermen charge their livelihood is at risk. Sinking under the weight of 700 pages of confusing federal regulations.

"You almost have to have a college degree to understand what's really going on in this industry," said fisherman Richard Burgess.

Burgess said NOAA told him he had to pay $27,000 because of a problem with his paperwork.

"They just said if I tried to fight it and it goes in front of one of their judges - that I most likely - the fine will be between $120,000-$140,000," Burgess said.

An investigation by the Commerce Department's Inspector General found the regulations were "unduly complicated." Federal agents "overzealous" and "abusive." Excessive fines including one for $270,000 for "administrative errors."

"We're honest hard-working people," Burgess said. "And we have been treated as common criminals."

Anti Federalist
02-16-2011, 09:10 PM
I sat face to face with the director of NMFS, over 20 years ago now, who stated flat out, "I intend to put half of you people (commercial fishermen) out of business".

It is things like this that make me less inclined to "politely listen" to government mouthpieces.

What has happened to commercial fishermen, small farmers, independent truckers, to name a few of the "targeted" professions, will soon be happening to everybody.


"We're honest hard-working people," Burgess said. "And we have been treated as common criminals."

This is personal for me, I've been put out of work twice now by the everfucking government.

I'm very, very close to having it happen a third time, and if it plays out in the worst case scenario fashion, it will bankrupt me.

EndDaFed
02-16-2011, 09:24 PM
So it will end up being just a few corporate players left. The companies that have the resources to put up with all that regulatory bullshit. This will weed out competition given that it takes a team of lawyers to understand it. Laws that actually protect public fisheries are simple to understand and are normally done by state/county governments. I.E toss back fish that are under or over X size.

trey4sports
02-16-2011, 09:28 PM
that is absolutely insane!

Anti Federalist
02-16-2011, 09:42 PM
From the OP's news article:


The inspector general found the $30 million the fishermen paid in fines went to a NOAA fund with no oversight. The fund was used by regulators to buy more cars (202) than agents (172,) and for trips to fishing conferences in exotic locales such as Australia, Malaysia and Norway. It was also used to purchase a $300,000 "luxury vessel" used by government employees for "fishing trips."

And according to this memo obtained by CBS News while under investigation NOAA officials in Washington had a "shredding party" destroying garbage bags full of documents.

CountryboyRonPaul
02-16-2011, 09:48 PM
^^ You've gotta be fing kidding me

Taking from working fishermen, to buy luxury recreational fishing trips/boats?

Anti Federalist
02-16-2011, 09:56 PM
^^ You've gotta be fing kidding me

Taking from working fishermen, to buy luxury recreational fishing trips/boats?

Not kidding at all.

Local cops do it all the time through "asset forfeiture".

I'm sure if you looked hard enough there would be some cash expenditures for hookers and blow buried in there also. :mad::mad::mad:

CountryboyRonPaul
02-16-2011, 10:01 PM
:mad:

pcosmar
02-16-2011, 10:11 PM
Revenuers

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2897091250_d9651e9d89_z.jpg?zz=1


It's worse than you think.
:mad:

aGameOfThrones
02-16-2011, 10:14 PM
Pay $27k... No? If you complain you might have to pay us over $100k... Either way We Win.

Freedom 4 all
02-17-2011, 09:57 AM
What has happened to commercial fishermen, small farmers, independent truckers, to name a few of the "targeted" professions, will soon be happening to everybody.

This is absolutely disgusting, and the endgame seems pretty clear to me. Fishermen, farmers and truckers are one of the few professions left where you can make a good and honorable living while being completely independent. Government has more control in a society where you can't be gainfully self-employed and must work either for them or one of their large crony corporations owned by party members. I'm curious though, did that guy from NMFS give any kind of supposed justification whatsoever, or what it basically just "I'm a gigantic social parasite who will take everything from hardworking people who actually make contributions to society because the state said I can."

EDIT: Read some of the comments on the CBS news article and think I'm going to hurl. Where the hell do these people get off?

Liberty Rebellion
02-17-2011, 10:42 AM
That's bs. In a related story, I saw this video on the facebooks last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3QtviRYonw

Anti Federalist
02-17-2011, 02:38 PM
EDIT: Read some of the comments on the CBS news article and think I'm going to hurl. Where the hell do these people get off?

No greater disdain exists among the Boobeoisie than the contempt it has for the most vital of people in society.

From the article comments:


by laudan525 February 17, 2011 8:35 AM EST
The only reason the Atlantic Fisheries are coming back to life are because of Federal Regulations. If the fishermen had their way the fishery would have colapsed (sic) years ago. Quit blamming (sic) the government for all your problems. Go back to watching NASCAR and eating Cheato's.

The reason there was a "bubble" in commercial fishing vessels and consequently overfishing was BECAUSE of government.

Go look up the Magnuson Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Stevens_Fishery_Conservation_and_Management_Act

One of things it did right after being passed, was to provide low interest government loans to build commercial fishing vessels.

Thus, in the late 70s and early 80s, everybody and their brother was building boats and sending them offshore.

That led to overfishing and a collapse in prices which led to even more overfishing. Then the feds came along in the mid to late 80s and decided they needed to put out of business all the people they subsidized to get into the business in the first place.

Commercial fishermen have been fucked for decades now, the regulators, university class, petty authoritarians and clam cops love it, since they are tiny minority of people, with very little public support or exposure, so they can treat the fishermen like lab rats with almost no risk of public backlash.

Freedom 4 all
02-17-2011, 03:55 PM
No greater disdain exists among the Boobeoisie than the contempt it has for the most vital of people in society.

From the article comments:



The reason there was a "bubble" in commercial fishing vessels and consequently overfishing was BECAUSE of government.

Go look up the Magnuson Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Stevens_Fishery_Conservation_and_Management_Act

One of things it did right after being passed, was to provide low interest government loans to build commercial fishing vessels.

Thus, in the late 70s and early 80s, everybody and their brother was building boats and sending them offshore.

That led to overfishing and a collapse in prices which led to even more overfishing. Then the feds came along in the mid to late 80s and decided they needed to put out of business all the people they subsidized to get into the business in the first place.

Commercial fishermen have been fucked for decades now, the regulators, university class, petty authoritarians and clam cops love it, since they are tiny minority of people, with very little public support or exposure, so they can treat the fishermen like lab rats with almost no risk of public backlash.

That is absolutely terrible. I've actually noticed the contempt for the vital too though. Usually the profile for such a person would be a low level bureaucrat in a meaning-free government job. Interestingly, these people will invariably be badge lickers and talk about what a vital "working man's" job being a cop is while completely ignoring fishermen, farmers, firefighters etc. Marxists are generally a different breed, but it's interesting how they too love to talk about the "working man" despite the fact that they seem to think they're above it themselves. None of the Marxists I know have ever worked anything I'd call a real job. Possibly it's a weird form of jealously of the fact that what fishermen and farmers do has meaning and purpose that these pencil pushing thugs will never know in their parasitic existence. This is why I always say the government should never take action of any kind unless an actual problem that cannot be solved without government (there are VERY few of these) presents itself. Government action creates massive fuckups which in turn causes idiots to call for more action from the same government that fucked everything up in the first place.

Koz
02-17-2011, 04:28 PM
This is absolutely disgusting, and the endgame seems pretty clear to me. Fishermen, farmers and truckers are one of the few professions left where you can make a good and honorable living while being completely independent. Government has more control in a society where you can't be gainfully self-employed and must work either for them or one of their large crony corporations owned by party members. I'm curious though, did that guy from NMFS give any kind of supposed justification whatsoever, or what it basically just "I'm a gigantic social parasite who will take everything from hardworking people who actually make contributions to society because the state said I can."

EDIT: Read some of the comments on the CBS news article and think I'm going to hurl. Where the hell do these people get off?

I have a lot of friends who are farmers, every one of them sucking off of the government tit with the farm subsidies. How it makes sense to pay a farmer to not grow a crop is beyond me.

Anti Federalist
02-17-2011, 07:55 PM
///

coastie
02-17-2011, 08:13 PM
But wait, there's more....the catch is then put up for bid to local restaurants/fish houses, I believe at market price, I honestly can't remeber it's been a while since I did Gulf Fisheries enforcement). So not only does the fisherman have to pay the fine to the USG-the USG (NOAA specifically:confused:)also get the money from the sale of the catch-and their vessel as well if the offense is serious enough;)

Magnuson....Yeah, I could tell you many o' tale of the USCG busting people for fishing in the closed areas of the coast of Florida-and then dropping lines down on the same reefs they're "protecting" from said people.:mad::eek:

Anti Federalist
02-17-2011, 08:39 PM
But wait, there's more....the catch is then put up for bid to local restaurants/fish houses, I believe at market price, I honestly can't remeber it's been a while since I did Gulf Fisheries enforcement). So not only does the fisherman have to pay the fine to the USG-the USG (NOAA specifically:confused:)also get the money from the sale of the catch-and their vessel as well if the offense is serious enough;)

Magnuson....Yeah, I could tell you many o' tale of the USCG busting people for fishing in the closed areas of the coast of Florida-and then dropping lines down on the same reefs they're "protecting" from said people.:mad::eek:

Yup, that's true.

But if it's caught onboard it has to be thrown back, dead.

coastie
02-17-2011, 08:43 PM
Yup, that's true.

But if it's caught onboard it has to be thrown back, dead.

Caught on board? I've escorted a vessel or three with catch on board all the way to the pier, where it was then removed(by the fisherman) placed in coolers on the dock and hauled off in a GV to be sold....

Anti Federalist
02-17-2011, 09:17 PM
Caught on board? I've escorted a vessel or three with catch on board all the way to the pier, where it was then removed(by the fisherman) placed in coolers on the dock and hauled off in a GV to be sold....

I wasn't making myself clear.

If fish caught onboard, by the crew, is not "legal", meaning not fitting an arbitrary size, it must be thrown back, even though it's dead.

coastie
02-20-2011, 11:35 AM
I wasn't making myself clear.

If fish caught onboard, by the crew, is not "legal", meaning not fitting an arbitrary size, it must be thrown back, even though it's dead.

Correct, sir.

Live_Free_Or_Die
02-20-2011, 12:17 PM
Not kidding at all.

Local cops do it all the time through "asset forfeiture".

I'm sure if you looked hard enough there would be some cash expenditures for hookers and blow buried in there also. :mad::mad::mad:

Point of clarification. All political subdivisions, federal and local, have been created by States, with your consent of course. :rolleyes:

Many States enact legislation, for instance Motor Vehicle Statues. If local political subdivisions enforce said State Statues they get a kick back, which is often written right into the Statues... asset forfeiture... aka limited liability for theft.

Captain Shays
02-20-2011, 04:02 PM
I sat face to face with the director of NMFS, over 20 years ago now, who stated flat out, "I intend to put half of you people (commercial fishermen) out of business".

It is things like this that make me less inclined to "politely listen" to government mouthpieces.

What has happened to commercial fishermen, small farmers, independent truckers, to name a few of the "targeted" professions, will soon be happening to everybody.



This is personal for me, I've been put out of work twice now by the everfucking government.

I'm very, very close to having it happen a third time, and if it plays out in the worst case scenario fashion, it will bankrupt me.

You know AF, sometimes I don't take the time to think about what another person may have gone through that makes them act the way they do. All I know is that my father, my mother and myself have been screwed royally by the government. My father was used as a guinea pig for experimental colbolt treatments that caused him to suffer painful headaches the rest of his life. It caused our entire family to suffer through them as well. We would be sitting at the dinner table and all of a sudden my father would fall out of his chair and he would scream in agony tot he point that he would bang his head up against the wall pleading for it to stop until he eventually passed out from the pain. It went on my entire childhood.
He was the hardest working man I had ever seen. Not very well educated but he could figure out a 1,000 different ways to make a good living. But his sickness made it tougher and tougher until he was finally diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. But the loss of work and doctors bills depleted my parents of nearly everything except their house. When he bought it he paid $17,000 and when he died in 1985, it was worth $225,000.. My mother desperate for money sold it for $150,000 and the IRS took over half of it. More than half.
I have been thrown in jail for two whole weeks for not paying child support even though I had full custody and my ex wife was paying me $800 per month. Just a computer glich ya know?
Last year when my wife got laid off from her job, we fell behind in our IRS payments. It was either eat and keep warm in the winter or pay the IRS. So they took our stimulas check and the next year with my business return they owed me money which should have been deducted from the total amount. So I called and asked for a new payment plan based on the new amount. The guy I spoke with said he would call me back but just a couple of days later they instead, went into my bank account and took every penny that we had causing not only EVERY bill to go unpaid, but because we had already sent out the payments we then had $300 in overdraft fees to contend with plus a $100 fee my bank charged to to the honors.
Just to be able to work, the government does a background check on me, drug tests me and holds me to a higher standard than anyone else for what I do. Any day, I could make one mistake and be out of a job or worse.

I forget this all sometimes especially with our recent exchange relative to the CPAC guys. I came down on them pretty hard but looking back at how the government has screwed me and my family several times (there are other things I didn't mention) and how they screwed you over, I don't blame them or you, one bit for shouting or doing whatever you do in protest. That old, "they came for the Jews and I wasn't Jewish" mantra means we better all hook up quick and put a stop to this.

But I think you and I both know it might be too late to change the trajectory we're on.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2011, 04:13 PM
Man...wait...words...shit...

This is not hyperbole, I read your post and wept.


You know AF, sometimes I don't take the time to think about what another person may have gone through that makes them act the way they do. All I know is that my father, my mother and myself have been screwed royally by the government. My father was used as a guinea pig for experimental colbolt treatments that caused him to suffer painful headaches the rest of his life. It caused our entire family to suffer through them as well. We would be sitting at the dinner table and all of a sudden my father would fall out of his chair and he would scream in agony tot he point that he would bang his head up against the wall pleading for it to stop until he eventually passed out from the pain. It went on my entire childhood.
He was the hardest working man I had ever seen. Not very well educated but he could figure out a 1,000 different ways to make a good living. But his sickness made it tougher and tougher until he was finally diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. But the loss of work and doctors bills depleted my parents of nearly everything except their house. When he bought it he paid $17,000 and when he died in 1985, it was worth $225,000.. My mother desperate for money sold it for $150,000 and the IRS took over half of it. More than half.
I have been thrown in jail for two whole weeks for not paying child support even though I had full custody and my ex wife was paying me $800 per month. Just a computer glich ya know?
Last year when my wife got laid off from her job, we fell behind in our IRS payments. It was either eat and keep warm in the winter or pay the IRS. So they took our stimulas check and the next year with my business return they owed me money which should have been deducted from the total amount. So I called and asked for a new payment plan based on the new amount. The guy I spoke with said he would call me back but just a couple of days later they instead, went into my bank account and took every penny that we had causing not only EVERY bill to go unpaid, but because we had already sent out the payments we then had $300 in overdraft fees to contend with plus a $100 fee my bank charged to to the honors.
Just to be able to work, the government does a background check on me, drug tests me and holds me to a higher standard than anyone else for what I do. Any day, I could make one mistake and be out of a job or worse.

I forget this all sometimes especially with our recent exchange relative to the CPAC guys. I came down on them pretty hard but looking back at how the government has screwed me and my family several times (there are other things I didn't mention) and how they screwed you over, I don't blame them or you, one bit for shouting or doing whatever you do in protest. That old, "they came for the Jews and I wasn't Jewish" mantra means we better all hook up quick and put a stop to this.

But I think you and I both know it might be too late to change the trajectory we're on.

Captain Shays
02-20-2011, 04:26 PM
We're both in it Bro

Anti Federalist
02-20-2011, 04:28 PM
Ok...let's see if I have my wits about me...

Captain Shays, your story touched me in many ways, not just because of the financial difficulties, or the tax difficulties or the difficulties with the everfucking IRS which are bad enough.

It touched me because this is not how it's supposed to be, something is just so far out of whack, it shows just how far we've fallen, how much of a slave we have all become...fuck...IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THIS....ARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!

And then there is this:


I forget this all sometimes especially with our recent exchange relative to the CPAC guys. I came down on them pretty hard but looking back at how the government has screwed me and my family several times (there are other things I didn't mention) and how they screwed you over, I don't blame them or you, one bit for shouting or doing whatever you do in protest. That old, "they came for the Jews and I wasn't Jewish" mantra means we better all hook up quick and put a stop to this.

Brother, I could not have said it better myself.

People, this is the only thing I meant in "defending" whatever action people took at CPAC or anywhere else.

And I even admitted that maybe it wasn't the most productive thing to do, but damnit, people are pissed and rightly so, we are on the verge of worldwide revolution and stand at a point in time where mankind's fate may be decided for next thousand years.

I'll be dead and gone, but I don't won't my children to grow up in a high tech slave grid.

And the only way we'll stop that is that each and every single one of stand together, regardless of flaw, anger, imperfection, unpolished approach, difference of opinion or religion or whatever.

We're all we have...in the end, that's it, and it's going to take the heart, soul and talent of each and every one of us, doing whatever we whenever we can to stop this thing. The last thing needed is complaints from the sidelines about "how you're doing it wrong!"

awake
02-20-2011, 04:38 PM
I can't wait for the day when people can fish, or procreate fish, as much as they want on their own ocean fish farm plots. The problem here is that currently ocean property rights are communistic, a free for all to deplete the resources before the other guy.What's worse is that you have a goon squad (under false pretenses) trying to pretend that they are 'managing' a "common resource" when the truth is they are just using their office to steal money.

Captain Shays
02-20-2011, 04:49 PM
Ok...let's see if I have my wits about me...

Captain Shays, your story touched me in many ways, not just because of the financial difficulties, or the tax difficulties or the difficulties with the everfucking IRS which are bad enough.

It touched me because this is not how it's supposed to be, something is just so far out of whack, it shows just how far we've fallen, how much of a slave we have all become...fuck...IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THIS....ARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!

And then there is this:



Brother, I could not have said it better myself.

People, this is the only thing I meant in "defending" whatever action people took at CPAC or anywhere else.

And I even admitted that maybe it wasn't the most productive thing to do, but damnit, people are pissed and rightly so, we are on the verge of worldwide revolution and stand at a point in time where mankind's fate may be decided for next thousand years.

I'll be dead and gone, but I don't won't my children to grow up in a high tech slave grid.

And the only way we'll stop that is that each and every single one of stand together, regardless of flaw, anger, imperfection, unpolished approach, difference of opinion or religion or whatever.

We're all we have...in the end, that's it, and it's going to take the heart, soul and talent of each and every one of us, doing whatever we whenever we can to stop this thing. The last thing needed is complaints from the sidelines about "how you're doing it wrong!"

Well stated AF! Right on the spot but it's worse and you know it. I just watched a video about a guy at a John McCain rally where Sarah Palin was giving the speech. McShame and others were standing behind her. The title of the video was "Violent Liberal at McCain Rally" (or something to that effect). There was a young kid standing at the back who shouted out something about the corporate bailouts. I thought to myself, this could have been ME! I was angry about that shit too and it would have pissed me off to see what the elites were doing to that crowd. Of course a bunch of thugs ganged up on that kid and dragged him out through the crowd and he looked to me like HE was the one in hostile territory. Somewhat of a sacrificial lamb being lead to his slaughter as the crowd all yelled at him and spit on him.
It dawned on me, that we might some day be touted as the bad guys. Even terrorists. Well, we were accused of being like terrorists by Glenn Beck and I KNOW how that felt. But what of all the people who believed him? How far do they have to be lead to attack us as terrorists? Remember the FBI training manual that taught the cops that anyone who had a Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin or Ralph Nader bumper sticker on their car should be pulled over? And the other things in that document that portrayed Fundamental Christians who carried pocket Constitutions as being more dangerous than fundamentalist Muslims?

You say "we're all we have" but I say to that, we better know who we are first and then stick together. I ain't gonna eat anyone else who expresses anger or rage at whats going on. NO MORE. I am feeling nothing but rage at what I'm seeing of late and I don't want to be helpless or alone. I could arm up and build a compound in the mountains but what am I against 100 National Guard troops outside my house but a martyr?

Who can stop it? Kids are being thrown in mental institutions for crying that they miss their father who is in Iraq. Other kids are being expelled from school for having an asperine. Others for pointing their finger like a gun at recess while playing cops and robbers. A guy in North Carolina was cited for a DUI because he was drinking a beer while on his riding lawn mower. A 17 year old girl was strip-search on the side of a road. Her car was pulled over because it had a Grateful Dead bumper sticker on it and the cop thought he saw her put something in her dress.
I also just watched the video of the people at Hatteras Island who are losing their homes and businesses to save a bird.
Check this out
http://www.lewrockwell.com/whitehead/whitehead26.1.html

So where and when do we start fighting this insanity? What weapons do we use? Words? Bullets? Flowers? Protests? Where do I sign up? Because I see what you're saying and one of us might go off about one issue or another or one liar or another and the media would try to make us all look bad or discredit a good guy like Ron Paul or a bunch of good patriots like us even though w'ere in the right. I was saying that we can't give them more excuses but I see how they treat communists at the protests better than Ron Paul supporters in the media so it almost doesn't matter what we do or don't do. If the media and the elites are out to get ya they will get ya.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2011, 09:56 PM
So where and when do we start fighting this insanity? What weapons do we use? Words? Bullets? Flowers? Protests? Where do I sign up?

We're all marked, the system has identified us as the enemy and has for almost 20 years now.

We stay peaceful, make no mistake about this, the one who shoots first loses, but we also firmly commit to defend ourselves if attacked (a vital right that oppressed people fighting for their freedom right now across the globe don't have), we get louder, we get stronger, we get larger, we never look back, we never stop pushing, we get in the system's face every minute of every hour of every day and call them out for the corrupt pieces of shit they are.

We do, in other words, this:

We will not be silenced, whether you're a Christian, whether you are a Muslim, whether you are an Atheist, you will demand your goddamn rights, and we will have our rights, one way or the other! We will never be silenced!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvBJMzmSZI&feature=player_embedded

Anti Federalist
02-21-2011, 02:29 AM
bump

Tal
02-21-2011, 10:35 AM
The more I read about these cases of overly complicated laws being used to oppress honest hard working people the more enraged I get at the state and government bureaucrats in general, alot of these laws need to be deleted.