How do we convert a Huckabee person?

[Akus]

:(

[njandrewg]

tell them he is for amnesty, tell them to look at his fiscal record, tell them to show that he is a hypocrite for urging other candidates to slice their veins open in a tub of hot water.

[Brad Zink]

To me, the best way to show the positives of Dr. Paul is to let Dr. Paul speak for himself. I would show a Huckabee supporter the videos on YouTube of Dr. Paul.

If the person is in the Christian Conservative mold, you can appeal to the better angels of their nature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPck3ELGBR8

The videos by aravoth are awesome, and Ron Paul: A New Hope is great.

Finally, people need to be broken from the hysteria about Muslims. People who watch Fox News and listen to talk radio are so brainwashed that they are willing to give up their liberties because they think that some guy in a cave is out to get them!

[Shogun108]

tell them he is for amnesty, tell them to look at his fiscal record, tell them to show that he is a hypocrite for urging other candidates to slice their veins open in a tub of hot water.

1) He is not for amnesty

2) He is fiscally responsible

3) The comment was a saying he recycled from his heritage.

ANSWER:

How do you convert a huckabee supporter?

You debate him! Some people won't be won over by those points... Oh and telling him more about Paul Won't do if he already like Ron Paul...

[Gimme Some Truth]

Whats huckerbee's tax record like?

[twister5400]

he is not fiscally responsible though? at least that is not what his record says...

http://www.taxhikemike.org/

[Lord Xar]

? He is for Amnesty. Go to numbersusa.com and see his record. Its is very obvious where he stands.

He voted against a bill that would have prevented illegal aliens from voting.

"IF" you do not know these facts what is the use in debating becasue you are not informed enough to have a conversation because you will not even know what you are defending against.

[Akus]

thanks twister

[jointhefightforfreedom]

Show them this post The Single Greatest threat to america (http://jointhefightforfreedom.com/node/88)

all the other issues won't matter if that one isn't solved and Huck does not have the experience nor the will to do it

Changing foreign policy is the only thing that can solve it before it's too late!

Ross Perot preached about it several yrs ago and nobody listened
and now we may not be able to solve it before we are a 3rd world country
were the dollar ratios will be 100:1

[davidhperry]

No matter whom they support, you can't just spout facts and expect to convert them. You have to listen to why they are attracted to their candidate and then you can work on contrasting that with Dr. Paul. You also have to understand what they really mean, not necessarily what they say. for example, someone might say that they support the war but what they really mean is that they don't feel safe. If you listen closely and are perceptive, you can pick up on this kind of stuff. Make sense?

[Lord Xar]

he is not fiscally responsible though? at least that is not what his record says...

http://www.taxhikemike.org/

wow. how come nobody on the hucksters forums knows about this site?

[saahmed]

I think Huckabee is going to be taking many potential Paul supporters. Recently, he has been mimicking so many of the ideas the Ron Paul has been talking about from the beginning. Huckabee is getting much more mainstream support and I think basically he will be attracting the people who may be somewhat fond of Ron Paul, but still supports the war.

[nayjevin]

I think Huckabee is going to be taking many potential Paul supporters.

what? there's already a solution.

www.taxhikemike.com

[Shogun108]

No it is not Huck who has been mimicking you guys it is the grassroots mimicking the grassroots.

Also Huck's support is much different than just media and is Paul's. Whereas all the front runners vie on the media for life.

[Ron Paul Fan]

I see Huckabee has spent his limited funds wisely by sending a spy on here so that he can copy our grassroots support! It's not Ron Paul that is necessarily causing the uproar, it's the message! The freedom message brings us together, it doesn't divide us. And Ron Paul is our current representative of the freedom message and when we make a mistake, it is the obligation of the people through their representatives to correct the mistake not to continue the mistake! Huckabee would keep doing what isn't working for the sake of saving his honor. He probably won't ever drop out of this race because it wouldn't be very honorable and he has an obligation to every man and woman supporting his campaign(all 300 of them) to not leave the race with anything less than the honor that they deserve!

Huckabee has no where near the record as Ron Paul does on the issues. He's on the wrong side of the argument on the war, immigration, taxes, and he thinks the other candidates with more money should "sit in a warm bathtub with razor blades closeby." His only shot is in Iowa. If he doesn't win there, he's finished! But at least he'll still have his honor.

[Corydoras]

This person doesn't care about invasions of privacy by the government as allowed by the Patriot Act and HIPAA? About the disposal of habeas corpus as in the Military Commissions Act?

[literatim]

1) He is not for amnesty



“If I were to say some of it is driven by just sheer racism, I think I would be telling you the truth,” Huckabee said as he shared sandwiches and salad with close to 20 national and regional political reporters.

“I’m not saying everybody who is very, very angry [about immigration ] is a racist. I want to be very clear about that. But I’ve had conversations with people, and it became evident what they really didn’t like is that people didn’t look like them, didn’t talk like them and didn’t celebrate the holidays they do, and they just had a problem with it.”

He said many politicians take advantage of that. “We’ve got people in my own state certainly that have used this as a way to fling red meat out at crowds,” he said, without mentioning names.

Huckabee praised President Bush’s approach to im- migration, outlined in a speech to the nation Monday night.

“This is an issue that’s not going to satisfy everyone no matter what he proposes,” he said. “What people seem to want is unrealistic, unreasonable and undoable.”

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/154897/


2) He is fiscally responsible



Washington – The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette ran an article (http://www.nwanews.com/adg/national/203850/) today confirming what the Club for Growth PAC has been saying for months now: Mike Huckabee is a tax-hiker plain and simple.

According to the Democrat-Gazette, “the average Arkansan’s tax burden grew from $1,969 in the fiscal year that ended June 30, 1997, to $2,902 in the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2005, including local taxes,” a whopping tax increase of 47% under Huckabee’s tenure. Tax legislation passed while Huckabee was governor totaled “a net tax increase of $505 million, a figure adjusted for inflation and economic growth,” according to the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration.

Huckabee likes to wave away criticisms of his economic record by saying he cut taxes 90 times, but the same Democrat-Gazette article points out that the so-called 90 tax cuts included one medium tax cut ($90 million) and 89 tiny cuts. Clearly, Huckabee’s tax increases far outstripped any of his tax cuts, reaching a net tax increase of $505 million. Some of these include:

* Higher sales taxes (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/07/96)
* Higher gas taxes (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 06/29/99)
* Higher grocery taxes (Associated Press, 09/11/02; Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 11/17/02)
* Higher taxes on nursing home beds (Associated Press, 06/25/01)

“In past debates, Huckabee has dismissed criticisms of his tax record with superficial answers and half-truths,” said Club for Growth President Pat Toomey. “Hopefully, tonight’s moderators will not let Huckabee off the hook so easily. Voters across America have a right to know the truth about Mike Huckabee’s tax-hiking record.”

http://www.taxhikemike.org/

[nbhadja]

Shogun108, are you gonna show your face and talk about how you were wrong about Hucky supporting amnesty and illegal immigrants??

Huckabee vehemently opposed a 2005 bill sponsored by Arkansas State Senator Jim Holt which would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants, calling it "un-Christian." This is one of the many examples.
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347.html

"Huckabee claims to have cut taxes while governor, saving Arkansas' citizens close to $380 million.[53] For 2007, he claims his state enjoyed a surplus of nearly $850 million.[53] However, Huckabee has also been criticized for his fiscal record.[54][55][56][57] Club for Growth argues that he increased state spending 65.3 percent (1996–2004) and supported 5 tax increases, prompting them to accuse Huckabee of being a liberal in disguise"

Here are all of his controversies- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Huckabee
And read the sources they give if you think its wrong.

[Gimme Some Truth]

Atleast on Domestic issues I think Shogun is (or ought to be) a Ron Paul supporter.

He just hasnt looked very much in depth into either candidate as judged by his views on Huckerbee on taxes and amnesty aswell as him getting Ron Paul's policies wrong on his latest Huckerbee - Paul comparison blog ie. the UN , Social security and seemingly not knowing Paul wants to abolish the IRS .

Only thing i see that he agrees with Huckerbee over Paul is the war and how we need to be "honorable"

I think he needs to dig a little deeper into both candidates and especially their voting records.

Shogun , if you have any questions with regards to why Paul voted for or against a bill (eg. some get confused about his no to internet neutrality ) feel free to ask and we'll tell you.
Please, even if you end up supporting Huckerbee, do yourself a favour and look into both candidates further. I know you have slammed Paul quite abit on your blog and may find it hard to openly support him on your blog now but i wouldnt be if i were you. Making damn sure you know you are definately supporting the right candidate ,for you, is more important.

[steph3n]

agree fully, and I am glad to see youth involved and seeking anyway, not going with the fox news freight train Rudy or the others.
(I speak as said youth as well)


Atleast on Domestic issues I think Shogun is (or ought to be) a Ron Paul supporter.

He just hasnt looked very much in depth into either candidate as judged by his views on Huckerbee on taxes and amnesty aswell as him getting Ron Paul's policies wrong on his latest Huckerbee - Paul comparison blog ie. the UN , Social security and seemingly not knowing Paul wants to abolish the IRS .

Only thing i see that he agrees with Huckerbee over Paul is the war and how we need to be "honorable"

I think he needs to dig a little deeper into both candidates and especially their voting records.

Shogun , if you have any questions with regards to why Paul voted for or against a bill (eg. some get confused about his no to internet neutrality ) feel free to ask and we'll tell you.
Please, even if you end up supporting Huckerbee, do yourself a favour and look into both candidates further. I know you have slammed Paul quite abit on your blog and may find it hard to openly support him on your blog now but i wouldnt be if i were you. Making damn sure you know you are definately supporting the right candidate ,for you, is more important.

[wsc321]

I think Huckabee is going to be taking many potential Paul supporters. Recently, he has been mimicking so many of the ideas the Ron Paul has been talking about from the beginning. Huckabee is getting much more mainstream support and I think basically he will be attracting the people who may be somewhat fond of Ron Paul, but still supports the war.

I've personally seen this happen at least once with a family member: it's the idea of the necessity of the war. The idea that we'd be sort of committing national suicide if we don't continue the war ad infinitum.

[steph3n]

I've personally seen this happen at least once with a family member: it's the idea of the necessity of the war. The idea that we'd be sort of committing national suicide if we don't continue the war ad infinitum.

it is national suicide to continue :)
not saying to hammer that all the time, but the monetary crisis will get much worse in the coming months.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Speaking of suicide, Mike Huckabee advocates it as a way to eliminate his opponents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-2Sb7dFsvM

[literatim]

Speaking of suicide, Mike Huckabee advocates it as a way to eliminate his opponents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-2Sb7dFsvM

Isn't this guy suppose to be a Minister?

[Ron Paul Fan]

Isn't this guy suppose to be a Minister?

I guess so. I don't think a minister and Presidential candidate should be encouraging others to commit violent acts just so he can get rid of his opponents that are raising a lot more money than him. Isn't he supposed to be a man of God?

Anyway, here's how the good doctor Ron Paul responded to a similar question. I think Pastor Huckabee should take yet another page from Dr. Ron Paul's playbook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADOoKIQ1Y8I

[Geronimo]

He's a man with too many scripted one liners.

[lasenorita]

Shogun108, you're mistaken about the Congressman and his stance of several issues. For example:

Ron Paul is vehemently against our membership in the United Nations. He is strongly outspoken about it and has even said that the UN “is inherently illegitimate, because supra-national government is an inherently illegitimate concept.”

And no, Ron Paul doesn't want to keep Social Security. He wants to eliminate it and give the 'young people' an opportunity to be free from it. But he's not so heartless that he would leave the millions of seniors and truly impoverished in the dust all for the sake of privatization.

As for lowering taxes... Ron Paul not only wants to lower taxes, he wants to completely eliminate the income tax. He's not joking when he says he has never voted to raise taxes and has never voted for an unbalanced budget. On the other side, Huckabee doesn't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to taxes, does he? If I'm not mistaken, you'll find that he's actually raised them.

Also, if you don't understand the issue about the Federal Reserve, I suggest you read up on it. It's no surprise that they don't teach you about this in high school. (Actually, they don't teach a lot of things in high school ;) )America: Freedom to Fascism (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173) and The Money Masters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936) are two good films that will do much to further your education.

Keep in mind that subsidizing the rich and a free market aren't the same thing. We don't live in a truly free market society. We have a central bank that exerts control over our currency and favors the wealthy, and a government that heavily subsidizes companies and corporations. That's not capitalism, it's corporatism.

There are several more issues you seem to be insufficiently informed about. Please feel free to PM one of the senior members and I'm sure they'll answer your questions regarding Ron Paul and direct you to other helpful resources.

Cheers! :)




P.S. - I'd also like to point out that war is a major factor in the "degradation of the family and the loss of respect for the sanctity of life." We have thousands of military families torn asunder by their loved ones either being killed or disabled. We're killing hundreds of innocent men, women, and children in Iraq and caused the displacement of 12 million Iraqis from their homes. Restoring moral order is not possible when we do not follow moral principles and use sound policies.

[thechitowncubs]

Shogun108,

Are you on the wrong forum or am I mistaken?

[TurtleBurger]

Shogun108,

Are you on the wrong forum or am I mistaken?

It's the Huck forum that doesn't allow supporters of other candidates. :) We Paulites are a big tent!

[kylejack]

Huckabee supporters are some of the toughest nuts to crack, because they're generally more informed than Rudy and Mitt supporters and have already decided on Huckabee. They're probably sympathetic to Ron, but they've decided that they're pro-war. I think probably the only way to steal them is to flip them on the war, which is not an easy thing to do.

The other dilemma is that Huckabee oozes charisma. They see him as a "good" man, so attacks on his character are not likely to succeed. I'm not sure what angle to take on that, really, but ultimately I think that we should be promoting Ron's powerful strengths (nearly iron-clad voting record [very rare], and his principled integrity) rather than bashing Huckabee. I think that's going to be a lot more successful.

In general, though, Huckabee's supporters should be a lower priority due to their hardened nature. Mitt and Rudy are extremely soft targets with extremely lackadaisical supporters. Do you know why so many people are supporting Giuliani? They don't know anything about him. He's a scumbag that doesn't match their political views hardly at all, but they see him as Mr. 9/11. Most people who are being polled have never heard of any of the names besides McCain and Giuliani, and in early primary states, Mitt also. Our task needs to be to continue to get Ron's names and policies out there to steal these easy votes rather than going after the tough-sell Huckabee voters.

[Brutus]

The thing about this election cycle which has disturbed me the most is how it reveals that the core issue to so many conservatives is never ending war.

As to Huckabee, I have a friend who organizes a group associated with Schlafly and she does this stuff full time. I mentioned to her that Paul was my run away favorite and Huck was a very distant 2nd with no one else worth talking about. She told me that I was mistaken about Huck -- he shouldn't be on my list at all. She thought someone else should be on my list, but not Huck. This was before he said we should keep sacrificing our sons in the Middle East to protect the honor of politicians.

My friend is a fairly "mainstream" religious conservative and she waved me off (I'm a non-mainstream religious conservative, apparently) so I knew that there wasn't any reason to even bother going into his tax record if she was disturbed by it.

This country is headed for a cliff. Ron Paul is the only politician discussing the impending cliff. Everyone else wants to make the passengers feel good as they go over it because by doing so they get to pick their pockets and hope to jump off before the end comes.

[TVMH]

In case they aren't familiar with Huckabee, you might share this newspaper article with them:

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=154e1aad-fd18-4efd-8d80-b5dab8559419

[Eric21ND]

Isn't he pro-torture?

[me3]

Don't waste your time converting a Huckabee supporter. Find more people who are apathetic, or Republicans who have left the party. We'll need them if Dr. Paul gets into a situation where he can run as a 3rd party candidate.

[werdd]

Show them this post The Single Greatest threat to america (http://jointhefightforfreedom.com/node/88)

all the other issues won't matter if that one isn't solved and Huck does not have the experience nor the will to do it

Changing foreign policy is the only thing that can solve it before it's too late!

Ross Perot preached about it several yrs ago and nobody listened
and now we may not be able to solve it before we are a 3rd world country
were the dollar ratios will be 100:1

qft, if the american people werent so stupid ross perot woulda been our pres

[ThePieSwindler]

Ah interesting how on his blog, shogun talks about citing his sources, being a good debater, using facts rather than appeals to emotion, etc... yet here we are, citing our sources and disproving his assertions with our facts.. and he decides not to respond. How convenient of him!

[Phenom24]

How do you convert them? Send 'em to GITMO! Oh, wait....

LOL

[Shogun108]

Ah interesting how on his blog, shogun talks about citing his sources, being a good debater, using facts rather than appeals to emotion, etc... yet here we are, citing our sources and disproving his assertions with our facts.. and he decides not to respond. How convenient of him!

:D Oh yes how convenient indeed! BTW there is one problem I have with your source. Simply Its credibility is a factor. The reason I have not replied is that I've been busy. I've a life you know;)

Anyway, I like that you are trying to find sources to "convert" me, but these are too negative. I recommend you look to more positive approaches at rhetoric. Find unbias sources and objective articles and then we will talk, but until then focus on telling me how great Paul is!


Huckabee supporters are some of the toughest nuts to crack, because they're generally more informed than Rudy and Mitt supporters and have already decided on Huckabee. They're probably sympathetic to Ron, but they've decided that they're pro-war. I think probably the only way to steal them is to flip them on the war, which is not an easy thing to do.

The other dilemma is that Huckabee oozes charisma. They see him as a "good" man, so attacks on his character are not likely to succeed. I'm not sure what angle to take on that, really, but ultimately I think that we should be promoting Ron's powerful strengths (nearly iron-clad voting record [very rare], and his principled integrity) rather than bashing Huckabee. I think that's going to be a lot more successful.

In general, though, Huckabee's supporters should be a lower priority due to their hardened nature. Mitt and Rudy are extremely soft targets with extremely lackadaisical supporters. Do you know why so many people are supporting Giuliani? They don't know anything about him. He's a scumbag that doesn't match their political views hardly at all, but they see him as Mr. 9/11. Most people who are being polled have never heard of any of the names besides McCain and Giuliani, and in early primary states, Mitt also. Our task needs to be to continue to get Ron's names and policies out there to steal these easy votes rather than going after the tough-sell Huckabee voters.

BINGO! Listen to this man he has his head on strait!

[Pauliana]

From his website:

"We must continue subsidies because our farmers compete with highly subsidized farmers in Europe and Asia, and they face fixed costs (land, equipment, seed, supplies) whether or not they produce a crop. Subsidies insulate farmers from natural disasters like droughts, floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes, as well as from sudden spikes in the price of fuel, feed, and fertilizer.

I also support a more flexible counter cyclical revenue program that makes payments based on low yields and/or low prices rather than the current program, which is based only on low prices. I support a fully-funded crop insurance program, so that Congress will not have to pass emergency assistance every time disaster strikes.

We need agricultural policies that encourage our young people to enter and stay in farming. They face the high costs of starting and capitalizing a farm, plus the fears generated by onerous government regulations and rapid policy changes. We have to reduce their risks and increase their potential for profitability. We have to assure that they have outstanding rural schools, state-of-the-art health care, and first-rate infrastructure."

In my opinion, farm subsidies are probably one of the biggest evils in the world. They keep the third world from being able to compete agriculturally on the world market, and all they have is an agrarian economy. Not allowing 3rd world farmers to be viable is what perpetuates the need for Sally Struthers to keep showing you that starving child with the flies buzzing around his head. The same Christians who devoutly send their cup-a-coffee a day money are voting for politicians who implement policies that necessitate that charity. It's sick. Sick sick sick.

And other countries give the same excuse we do for THIER farm subsidies. The US is doing it, so we have to too to compete. It needs to STOP.

It's disingenuous to tout yourself as such a fiscal conservative when you support this kind of spending. If you can justify this, you can justify everything.

But you do well in Iowa, and that's what matters, right?

[Shogun108]

Justifying subsidies is hard when I do not support them... :p

I will tell you that enabling market freedom would be more of a fix than subsidies; however, the farmers do need a fair price for their goods... Oh... talk about a crazy issue. It really cannot be solved either way. What needs to be done is find a way to increase demand. The problem is the tax system foremost... But then what will make farming more profitable?

I have never seen a good approach to this issue, but there has to be American farmers one way or another...

[Pauliana]

Justifying subsidies is hard when I do not support them... :p

I will tell you that enabling market freedom would be more of a fix than subsidies; however, the farmers do need a fair price for their goods. What needs to be done is find a way to increase demand.

I have never seen a good approach to this issue, but there has to be American farmers one way or another...

Um... people will buy food when they are hungry. That's demand. And WHY really do we need American farmers? If we are trading peacefully with other countries and maintaining honest friendship, they aren't going to poison their customers.

The market determines a fair price. But that hasn't been tried in your lifetime so maybe that's why you haven't seen it.

[conner_condor]

How about showing what he is supporting and wants to grant ammenisty to.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

I am sure someone can word this better than I can to get the hucks supporters..

[Pauliana]

Also, he LOVES to pardon people.

http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html

Nasty people:

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=154e1aad-fd18-4efd-8d80-b5dab8559419

[Shogun108]

How about showing what he is supporting and wants to grant ammenisty to.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

I am sure someone can word this better than I can to get the hucks supporters..

Very old news that Is... Say no to amnesty! Here is Huck...


* My number one priority is to secure America's border.
* We have to know who is coming into our country, where they are going, and why they are here. We need a fence along our border with Mexico, electronic in some places, and more highly-trained border agents.
* Those who are caught trying to enter illegally must be detained, processed, and deported.
* Illegal immigrants already living among us who commit crimes must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and incarcerated or deported.

[Shogun108]

Also, he LOVES to pardon people.

http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html

Nasty people:

http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=154e1aad-fd18-4efd-8d80-b5dab8559419

Again with the negativity. Why do you insist on doing that? I've seen that... :(

[conner_condor]

Very old news that Is... Say no to amnesty! Here is Huck...

Yea it might be old to some but new news to others..

How many didn't know about RP till recently like the last 6 months?

[Ron Paul Fan]

So you link us to some info on Huckabee's website. The point Shogun is that anyone can talk the talk. And I'll give Huckabee credit for being a great talker. But when it comes to walk the walk, he's no Ron Paul. Immigration, taxes, spending, you name it Huckabee fails. He's on the wrong end of the war issue and he's overshadowed by the top 4 candidates. Ron Paul stands out, has the record to back up what he says, and doesn't go around telling people to commit suicide for his own amusement.

[TVMH]

Again with the negativity. Why do you insist on doing that? I've seen that... :(

The "negativity" that you identify here is purely subjective.

The objective facts are stated in the article, while the reader is allowed to come to his or her own conclusions.

Is it fair for us to discuss Dr. Paul's voting record in Congress? I think so.

Likewise, is it fair for us to discuss Mr. Huckabee's record as governor? Again, I think so.

[Pauliana]

Exactly. Huckabee is just another smooth-talking politician you won't like once he's got the job. But he gives a great interview. People need to know the truth. This election shouldn't just be about who is the best panderer. Call me negative. That's fine.

[emilysdad]

Mike Huckabee? Isn't this the guy who believes the earth is 6000 years old, that dinasaurs were put here by GOD to test the will of the human species. Okay, so Mike won't come clean with his answer, but isn't that what his followers believe? Are there really a majority of Americans who believe Adam and Eve slept with the dinasaurs? My research of Mike pretty much stops there.

[Shogun108]

So you link us to some info on Huckabee's website. The point Shogun is that anyone can talk the talk. And I'll give Huckabee credit for being a great talker. But when it comes to walk the walk, he's no Ron Paul. Immigration, taxes, spending, you name it Huckabee fails. He's on the wrong end of the war issue and he's overshadowed by the top 4 candidates. Ron Paul stands out, has the record to back up what he says, and doesn't go around telling people to commit suicide for his own amusement.

*sigh* this is getting no where guys...


Exactly. Huckabee is just another smooth-talking politician you won't like once he's got the job. But he gives a great interview. People need to know the truth. This election shouldn't just be about who is the best panderer. Call me negative. That's fine.

I was saying that you should focus on Ron Paul to convince me... I can assure you that you will find nothing on Huckabee I have not seen.


The objective facts are stated in the article, while the reader is allowed to come to his or her own conclusions.

Ok and I did now what?

[TVMH]

Ok and I did now what?

I must've missed your conclusion; stating that the article is negative is merely a subjective observation.

A conclusion on your part would be to identify how the facts in the article make you feel about Mr. Huckabee's ability, or lack thereof, to serve the interests of law and order, particularly with regard to protecting the public safety.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Shogun, the reason you should support Paul is the war issue. Can Huckabee overcome the 4 top tier pro war candidates who have more name recognition and more money? No. Can Huckabee run a decent campaign with a paltry $1-$2 million? No. His only shot is in Iowa. If he doesn't win there, he should get in a warm tub and have some razor blades closeby.

If you've ever heard Paul speak, he talks about blowback. Your own man Huckabee along with Tancredo and Thompson talked about blowback from the Turkey genocide vote in the House at the last debate. What we do around the world does incite hatred. Huckabee is very wrong on this issue and Paul is right. You know it, I know it, our job is to make the American people know it because they are at greater risk. Here we are, we can't even protect our own cities while we're prancing around the world! It's time to get out of the middle east and leave those folks alone.

[nbhadja]

Shogun, Huckster has a history of catering to illegal immigrants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Huckabee

Please read the illegal immigration section and the sources, you are dead wrong. Also the other controversies as well (which are a lot). He is pro-amnesty.

[Shogun108]

I also suggest reading up on Huckabee...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58178

[erowe1]

1) He is not for amnesty

2) He is fiscally responsible

3) The comment was a saying he recycled from his heritage.

ANSWER:

How do you convert a huckabee supporter?

You debate him! Some people won't be won over by those points... Oh and telling him more about Paul Won't do if he already like Ron Paul...

Wait, you're saying Huckabee IS fiscally responsible? You're kidding right? Huckabee never met a problem he didn't think could be solved by bigger government. His fiscal record as governor was terrible. And in every debate he takes every chance that is given to him to promise that government will do more not less to address the problems he is asked about.

If I get time I'd like to write up something outlining issue-by-issue how liberal Huckabee is (except on the social issues). I just haven't had the time yet. But is somebody else beats me to the punch that would be great.

[steph3n]

erowe, our friends over at brownshirt republic and commiestate will do this for us, they hate Huckabee. They can only throw insults at Dr Paul because there is no substance, but they can throw the filing cabinet at Huckabee.

[erowe1]

Huckabee supporters are some of the toughest nuts to crack, because they're generally more informed than Rudy and Mitt supporters and have already decided on Huckabee. They're probably sympathetic to Ron, but they've decided that they're pro-war. I think probably the only way to steal them is to flip them on the war, which is not an easy thing to do.

The other dilemma is that Huckabee oozes charisma. They see him as a "good" man, so attacks on his character are not likely to succeed. I'm not sure what angle to take on that, really, but ultimately I think that we should be promoting Ron's powerful strengths (nearly iron-clad voting record [very rare], and his principled integrity) rather than bashing Huckabee. I think that's going to be a lot more successful.

In general, though, Huckabee's supporters should be a lower priority due to their hardened nature. Mitt and Rudy are extremely soft targets with extremely lackadaisical supporters. Do you know why so many people are supporting Giuliani? They don't know anything about him. He's a scumbag that doesn't match their political views hardly at all, but they see him as Mr. 9/11. Most people who are being polled have never heard of any of the names besides McCain and Giuliani, and in early primary states, Mitt also. Our task needs to be to continue to get Ron's names and policies out there to steal these easy votes rather than going after the tough-sell Huckabee voters.

Huckabee supporters may be more informed than Romey supporters, but that's not saying much. for most of them, they only think Huckabee's conservative because they believe what he says about himself instead of looking critically at his record and the promises he makes. Most of them hear him say things about how conservative he is like he did at the last debate and get all giddy thinking about the prospect of a conservative president. What we need to do is show them that he's lying, and that he's a big government liberal, who's idea of "conservative" is the same as GW's "compassionate conservatism", which is another way of saying "liberal".

[john_anderson_ii]

First, I would say to not waste your time on converting a Huckabee person, but instead try to develop a situation where you can convert several at once!

Someone said you should listen to their concerns and I agree 100%. But that doesn't mean don't prepare yourself for whatever those concerns are. I think one of Hucks strong points is compassion. Its misguided, but he is compassionate. I think a good course of action to take, if its found through listening, that Hucks supporters are drawn to his compassion, then show them the downside of misguided compassion.

If they think we are doing the Iraqi people proud. Tell them we already defeated the evil Saddam regime, and are now kicking the Iraqi people while they are down just because Al Queda is provoking us. That's not fair to the Iraqi people and its not fair to our troops.

If they think we should be more compassionate to illegals, explain to them what the huge influx of illegals is doing to local schools and hospitals, and how our infrastructure cannot cope with the onslaught. As a result, education is dropping and quality of care is dropping. How are we going to take care of all of
South America when we can't take care of ourselves? Its the put on your oxygen mask before assisting others philosophy.

[terlinguatx]

...

[ThePieSwindler]

:D Oh yes how convenient indeed! BTW there is one problem I have with your source. Simply Its credibility is a factor. The reason I have not replied is that I've been busy. I've a life you know;)

Anyway, I like that you are trying to find sources to "convert" me, but these are too negative. I recommend you look to more positive approaches at rhetoric. Find unbias sources and objective articles and then we will talk, but until then focus on telling me how great Paul is!




Dude you were still on for like a half hour last night after your original post, yet you didnt stay anything. Yea, we all have lives, and thats fine if you're using that as an excuse, but i saw the little green dot for at least a half an hour after your original "he is not a tax hiker" post.

As far as credibility of sources... you dont consider the club for growth, or objective, nonpartisan reviews of his policies, as credible sources? numbersUSA and the like are just what you are pining for - objectivity, yet when we quote them and they reflect negatively on your candidate, you say they are biased? Then you talk about debating the issues.. which we are... and you say we are being subjective and/or negative, and then proceed to dismiss what we say? One other thing i can't get past, is on your blog, you tout Keynesian economics as somehow having disproved classical economics, when it is neoclassical economics that has generally disproved the Keynesian models for economic growth. I disagree with the neoclassicists on monetarism, as i don't believe a government should have a monopoly on liquid mediums of exchange, nor should the power to manipulate the market be placed in the hands of the few. Funny you call yourself conservative yet advocate Keynesian economics - the same economic paradigm that advocated progressive taxation, heavy intervention in pricing (when you say you are against subsidies and price fixing, etc), deficit spending (when you claim to be a fiscal conservative) and government control of many private industries (including banking) whe you claim to be for privitization of government programs. Why all the contradictions?

Look man, Huckabee is not a bad guy. Hes one of the few Republicans (and presidential candidates overall) that i respect as a person. But I do not believe him to be the best choice for president, at all. The biggest issue i disagree with him on is the war - his whole "we broke it, we bought it" premise fails in light of the fact that most of the Iraqi people want us OUT - if they WANTED us to stay and help rebuild, then sure, maybe we would have that obligation, but the truth of the matter is they want us OUT so they can rebuild and so the government can try to work on its own without being a puppet of the United States. Is that the best course of action for Iraq? No, maybe not, but its their country, they get to decide what course of action they want to take, and its certainly not to have us occupy for another four years. We are the ones instigating violence, we ar ethe ones preventing the Iraqi people from peacefully rebuilding as we hand out no-bid contracts to defense contracters to do what the Iraqi people want to and should be doing.

[LibertyEagle]

*sigh* this is getting no where guys...

I was saying that you should focus on Ron Paul to convince me... I can assure you that you will find nothing on Huckabee I have not seen.


Paul wants to return the federal government to its proper role and to reinstate the Constitution. Our country was established such that the federal government would play a very limited role. The majority of the power was to reside with the states and the people. We have allowed the federal government to get into all kinds of areas that they were never intended to go. It costs us a great deal of money needlessly, moves the decision-making much further from We the People, not to mention the fact that it is being used to totally trample the Bill of Rights. A major purpose of the Constitution was to limit the power of the federal government, so they could not become tyrannical. However, we have increasingly allowed them to almost totally disregard this document. We do this at our own peril.

Paul is the true fiscal conservative. He has won the title of Taxpayers' Best Friend, from the National Taxpayers Union, ten years in a row.

Paul is not bought and paid for. He doesn't sacrifice the Constitution for special interests, lobbies, or the money they so willingly float around Washington D.C. for those willing to do otherwise.

Paul stands for the U.S., first and foremost and all that entails. He doesn't believe in sacrificing our national security for corporate interests, or for sending our brave military to fight and die to enforce UN treaties and nation-building. Our military should be used for one reason and one reason only. For our OWN national security.

Paul believes in America's sovereignty. He is opposed to the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization, NAFTA, CAFTA and any other sovereignty-robbing organizations that exist.

Paul is a firm proponent of free trade with all nations. Talk with people, trade with people. Other nations are far less inclined to do you harm, if they are doing business with you. NAFTA, CAFTA and the like are not free trade agreements, regardless of the name attached to them. They are nothing more than big government, managed trade agreements. Since when did we need over 700 pages of trade regulations to conduct free trade?


And so, among champions of free trade, the label "North American Free Trade Agreement" (NAFTA) is supposed to command unquestioning assent. "But how can you be against free trade?" It's very easy. The folks who have brought us NAFTA and presume to call it "free trade" are the same people who call government spending "investment," taxes "contributions," and raising taxes "deficit reduction." Let us not forget that the Communists, too, used to call their system "freedom."
Murray N. Rothbard,
Making Economic Sense,
Chapter 87: The NAFTA Myth

Who Killed Free Trade?
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=189&sortorder=articledate

What is Free Trade?
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2000/cr050200.htm


"As economist Murray Rothbard explained, true free trade does not require treaties or agreements between governments. On the contrary, true free trade occurs in the absence of government intervention in the free flow of goods across borders. Organizations like the WTO and NAFTA represent government-managed trade schemes, not free trade. Government-managed trade is inherently political, meaning politicians and bureaucrats determine who wins and loses in the marketplace. We should not allow globalist trade schemes to masquerade as free trade.

One critical point must not be ignored. The Constitution grants Congress, and Congress alone, the authority to regulate trade and craft tax laws. Congress cannot cede that authority to the WTO or any other international body, nor can the President legally sign any treaty that purports to do so. Our Founders never intended for America to become entangled in global trade schemes, and they certainly never intended to have our domestic laws overridden by international bureaucrats. Quasi-governmental organizations like the WTO are simply incompatible with American national sovereignty." -- Dr. Ron Paul

However, if a country is stupid enough to attack us or pose an imminent threat, we should declare WAR, and attack them convincingly and decidedly. After we have defeated them, we should return home and resume minding our own business and talking and trading with all nations.

Paul is for stopping illegal immigration. No amnesty; no birthright citizenship; no welfare; secure ports and borders. The difference with Paul though, is that he will resolve the problem at its core. If we stop the freebies, the flow will be greatly curtailed and it is those freebies that are costing us tremendous amounts of money.

With Congressman Paul, we finally have someone with true integrity for whom to vote. Someone who doesn't just spout rhetoric, or sway with whatever way the political wind is blowing, but has shown through almost 20 years in Congress that he walks his talk.

“...the two American political figures Ron Paul strikes me as being the most similar to are Thomas Jefferson and Barry Goldwater.” – Chuck Muth

“I strongly support Ron Paul. We very badly need to have more Representatives in the House who understand in a principled way the importance of property rights and religious freedom” – Milton Friedman, Nobel Prize Economist

"If the framers of the Constitution were somehow to come back, Ron Paul is one of possibly only three people in Congress that they'd even talk to," said Mr. Williams, adding that most politicians have a "generalized contempt" for the values of the Constitution. – Walter Williams

“...in his heart and in his head, in his character and in his intellect, in what he has done and in what he will become, the Thomas Jefferson of our day, Ron Paul is one of us!" --Judge Andrew Napolitano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QwTKKSvR8

"Texas Congressman Ron Paul's pro-gun credentials are impeccable and he has been a leading proponent of rolling back the past 40 years of gun control." -- Gun Owners of America

--------
For more information, go here and start reading: www.RonPaulLibrary.org :)

[coffeewithchess]

Tell them to visit TaxHikeMike.org and I say that if Gov. Huckabee was a Southern Baptist Preacher and he doesn't defend the Bible, how can we expect him to defend the Constitution!?

Mike Huckabee is the Bill Clinton of the Republican party...he is pandering for the "Christian right" support and I'm disgusted by it.

[Benaiah]

Mike Huckabee? Isn't this the guy who believes the earth is 6000 years old, that dinasaurs were put here by GOD to test the will of the human species. Okay, so Mike won't come clean with his answer, but isn't that what his followers believe? Are there really a majority of Americans who believe Adam and Eve slept with the dinasaurs? My research of Mike pretty much stops there.

Dude, I believe that the Earth is 6,000 - 10,000 years old, I go to 4 church services a week, and I'm not going to kiss my "girlfriend" until we're married. I'm as "religious nut job" as it gets. Heck, I even go door-knocking to try and convert people like you. My whole family is just like me, and I've converted all of them to Ron Paul.

I go to school full time, work full time, and church full time. I still find 1-3 hours a day to spread the word about Ron Paul in my town, though. I even turned my brother onto Paul 3 weeks ago. He's a missionary to a country that will throw him in jail if they found out that he is. Since I turned him onto Paul, he has made fliers and passed them out to every American he knows over there. He's also calling and emailing everybody stateside that he knows. When my mom isn't home schooling my 4 brothers (3 of which, want to become preachers when they grow up) they can be found mowing lawns in their neighborhood so that they can donate to Ron Paul's campaign.

So make fun of Christians all you want..... just looks foolish when observed from my vantage point.


[edit] I'm as Baptist as it gets. You all would be disgusted at how religious I am, seriously. Coming from myself, a Baptist, I'm here to tell you that the LAST thing we need is ANOTHER Baptist from Arkansas as president.

[dircha]

Mike Huckabee,
wrong on amnesty for illegal aliens,
wrong on socialized medicine,
wrong on government spending,
and wrong on the environment.

As governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee raised the average citizen's tax burden a whopping 47%. Huckabee raised taxes from the grocery store to the gas pump, right where it hurts working families most.

As President, Mike Huckabee would raise taxes on business, increase government regulation of healthcare, and grant amnesty to illegal aliens.

Mike Huckabee even endorses a nation-wide smoking ban.

Mike Huckabee, WRONG for America.

[me3]

Lets ignore this guy. We have a campaign to win.

[dircha]

Mike Huckabee is wrong on every issue that matters to fiscal conservatives:
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/01/a_report_on_mike_huckabees_fis.php

[steph3n]

We are indeed a diverse group. I too am a Christian, I am VERY secure in my beliefs and I know for a fact that some are not. Coming here would turn them off quickly, because even among liberty minded people voting for the same person, it can get VERY heated.
If somene can stand the heat they will come out as hardened steel in their faith, but some shrink away never to come back, it is a tough balance.

The attacks on religion, or even attacks on atheism should cease. If you want to debate this, fine, make a topic for it.


Dude, I believe that the Earth is 6,000 - 10,000 years old, I go to 4 church services a week, and I'm not going to kiss my "girlfriend" until we're married. I'm as "religious nut job" as it gets. Heck, I even go door-knocking to try and convert people like you. My whole family is just like me, and I've converted them all to Ron Paul.

I go to school full time, work full time, and church full time. I still find 1-3 hours a day to spread the word about Ron Paul in my town, though. I even turned my brother onto Paul 3 weeks ago. He's a missionary to a country that will throw him in jail if they found out that he is. Since I turned him onto Paul, he has made fliers and passed them out to every American he knows over there. He's also calling and emailing everybody stateside that he knows. When my mom isn't home schooling my 4 brothers (3 of which, want to become preachers when they grow up) they can be found mowing lawns in their neighborhood so that they can donate to Ron Paul's campaign.

So make fun of Christians all you want..... just looks foolish when observed from my vantage point.

[erowe1]

Deleted--Accidental double post.

[erowe1]

Dude, I believe that the Earth is 6,000 - 10,000 years old, I go to 4 church services a week, and I'm not going to kiss my "girlfriend" until we're married. I'm as "religious nut job" as it gets. Heck, I even go door-knocking to try and convert people like you. My whole family is just like me, and I've converted them all to Ron Paul.

I go to school full time, work full time, and church full time. I still find 1-3 hours a day to spread the word about Ron Paul in my town, though. I even turned my brother onto Paul 3 weeks ago. He's a missionary to a country that will throw him in jail if they found out that he is. Since I turned him onto Paul, he has made fliers and passed them out to every American he knows over there. He's also calling and emailing everybody stateside that he knows. When my mom isn't home schooling my 4 brothers (3 of which, want to become preachers when they grow up) they can be found mowing lawns in their neighborhood so that they can donate to Ron Paul's campaign.

So make fun of Christians all you want..... just looks foolish when observed from my vantage point.

I'm with you 100% Benaiah. The old religious right is a field ripe for the harvest for Ron Paul. In fact, the more staunchly fundamentalist someone is the more liable they are to go for Paul over Huckabee. Huckabee is more the darling of the new religious right exemplified by evangelical authors like Bill Hybels and Rick Warren, and that embraced G. W. Bush. When I was a kid in a fundamentalist Baptist home I was taught that one of the hallmarks of Satanism is the belief in one-world government. Among people of that stripe there is a great distrust in secular government to be trusted to do the Lord's work. As far as people like us are concerned, the less power is entrusted to the state the better. We have already seen what the feds do when they control the abortion issue (Roe v. Wade). Can we really doubt that when we give them control of marriage, it will ultimately be the proponents of gay marriage who win and not the Christians? If we don't ever want to become like Sweden, where preachers who call homosexuality a sin can be jailed, then Paul is our guy. The enormous power that Huckabee would have us give to his leviathan state will one day be wielded by someone a lot less friendly to Christians than he is.

In case people haven't noticed, while Huckabee has been running away with the 1st place finishes at the Values Voter events, Paul has gotten two second place finishes, and one third. That's not what I'd expect if Paul's views were diametrically opposed to theirs. And where will they turn after Huckabee bows out?

[Benaiah]

I just don't want us all to start arguing over religion. I want us all to stick together and get this guy elected. We ALL win if we had Paul in office. I'm totally down for person A being able to do drugs and boink prostitutes, if it means that my preacher can preach whatever the heck he wants.

I don't want person A forcing his life on me, and I wont force mine on him.

[Shogun108]

"Mike Huckabee,
wrong on amnesty for illegal aliens,
wrong on socialized medicine,
wrong on government spending,
and wrong on the environment"

Huckster is advocating Enforcement of our immigration laws so I guess you like amnesty.

Huckabee is against socialized medicine so I guess you are for it.

Huckabee supports government waste cut initiatives so you like earmarks?

Wow maybe you shouldn't be supporting Ron Paul you sound like a socialist... :p (sarcasm)

Look into the candidate as a person and on the whole. Message the campaign. I've done so with Paul so I could make an unbiased decision based on my beliefs.

[steph3n]

but you evaluated based on multiple false grounds, which have been pointed out to you multiple times.


"Mike Huckabee,
wrong on amnesty for illegal aliens,
wrong on socialized medicine,
wrong on government spending,
and wrong on the environment"

Huckster is advocating Enforcement of our immigration laws so I guess you like amnesty.

Huckabee is against socialized medicine so I guess you are for it.

Huckabee supports government waste cut initiatives so you like earmarks?

Wow maybe you shouldn't be supporting Ron Paul you sound like a socialist... :p (sarcasm)

Look into the candidate as a person and on the whole. Message the campaign. I've done so with Paul so I could make an unbiased decision based on my beliefs.

[ronpaulfan]

It is impossible to convert someone pigheaded and unwilling to listen to you or Ron Paul.

The fruitless hours you waste trying to convert a die-hard Hillary/Ghouliani/Huckabee supporter are better spent introducing many new people to Ron Paul.

And yes, a tactic of the enemy is to trick you into pointless debates. I see this on YouTube all the time.

[steph3n]

in some ways true ;) others not.


It is impossible to convert someone who's mind is already made up.

The fruitless hours you waste trying to convert a die-hard supporter are better spent introducing many new people to Ron Paul.

And yes, a tactic of the enemy is to trick you into pointless debates. I see this on YouTube all the time.

[ronpaulfan]

in some ways true ;) others not.

Think about it, how many times have you been able to convince a troll to support Ron Paul?

If someone has seen a few Ron Paul videos and still isn't convinced, MOVE ON! Don't waste a huge volume of breath beating a dead horse.

[steph3n]

Think about it, how many times have you been able to convince a troll to support Ron Paul?

If someone has seen a few Ron Paul videos and still isn't convinced, MOVE ON! Don't waste a huge volume of breath beating a dead horse.
this one is interesting because we share many similar backgrounds, I too was home schooled, and well, home schooled people tend to have a brain.

That being said, I much prefer talking to people in person or on the phone. ;)

[ThePieSwindler]

Huckabee has a mixed record on certain issues -as far as immigration, he is for secure borders, but also has said he favors a path to citizenship if they admit guilt and pay a fine.

On health care, hes generally in line with the GOP, though he has discussed the implementations of certain programs that would require some government initiative, such as ARKids First and various prevention programs using federal funds. Certainly not socialized medicine... though he hasn't really said specifics on fixing health care, other than "consumers in charge", though he has never really expounded upon how he would do that.

Hes great on the 2nd amendment, great on a few other social issues, but then the excellence ends.

Why is Ron Paul better than Huckabee? Hes much better than Huckabee on some key issues. First off, paul is a fiscal conservative, and has a sterling record of such. As stated previously, Huckabee does not. While this might not be a big deal to some like Shogun, who profess to be admiriers of Keynesian economics, Huckabee's record on taxation and spending show he is perfectly fine with increasing government spending, at least at the state level. Ron Paul is decidely against any increased taxation and any increase in spending. As far as the FairTax issue, all the fair tax really does is make the "hidden tax", or the price increase that corporations put on their goods to compensate for income taxes and capital gains taxes are, becomes transparent, as the income tax is eliminated and replaced with the flat tax. For consumers, untaxed prices are lower, but with the 23% factored in, its about the same, assuming the corporations adjust their prices (and dont keep them at previous levels PLUS the sales tax). This is a much better system than the current one, but it also does not require a decrease in the size of government. The better alternative is simply to do away with the income tax, and replace it with nothing - this forces government to limit spending, and as such limits the growth of government. This is key, as it is progressive taxation, or a maintainence of the status quo in taxation, that allows government to pursue more and more unconstitutional spending programs. Given huckabee's tax-and-spend record, i don't think we need to go into the details about how the fair tax enacted under a Huckabee presidency would do nothing to lessen the size of government.

Ron Paul is vastly superior on issues of civil liberties - the Patriot Act, the consequences of the warfare state, marriage, even abortion he proposes a more realistic policy than Huckabee, though i agree with Huckabee's pro-life position in general. Ron Paul is vastly superior in the foreign policy department, which ties in to so many of our problems and issues and desperately needs to be changed. The "we brought it because we broke it" mentality is ignorant of reality - the fact that the Iraqis WANT US TO LEAVE SO THeY CAN REBUILD THEIR OWN NATION. By staying we hurt ourselves, radicalize would-be terrorists and incentivize Al Qaeda for moving into the region, and we hurt the civilians of Iraq who have to withstand more gunfire, more war, and more danger. Ron Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy is the key to mitigating terrorist threats, coupled with proper, efficient intelligence (We don't need the CIA, the military can collect intelligence just fine), with the crosshair aimed on our real enemy, BinLaden and Al Qaeda, NOT Iraq or Iran.

Huckabee missing these key foreign policy points is what really disqualifies him in my mind, though the social conservatism to the point of "legislating morality" bothers me as well. Ron is simply a better choice if the goal is smaller, limited, constitutional government, fiscal responsibility, and economic freedom.

[ronpaulfan]

this one is interesting because we share many similar backgrounds, I too was home schooled, and well, home schooled people tend to have a brain.

That being said, I much prefer talking to people in person or on the phone. ;)

The only sure-fire way I know of to convince that person is to do this:

Put together a YouTube video specifically tailored to convince him to support Ron Paul. For every issue your friend has, find a Ron Paul clip answering it.

Once you make it, tell your friend you believe so strongly in Ron Paul that you spent time making a YouTube video to persuade him. He'll have to hear Ron Paul out after doing something like that. I'm planning to do this for a few people I know.

[ThePieSwindler]

It is impossible to convert someone who's mind is already made up.

The fruitless hours you waste trying to convert a die-hard supporter are better spent introducing many new people to Ron Paul.

And yes, a tactic of the enemy is to trick you into pointless debates. I see this on YouTube all the time.

Yes, but we can also consider this a mental exercise in how to convert people who generally support Huckabee but whose minds are not yet made, and would be willing to turn to Ron Paul is they simply knew how he was the better candidate. The difference between finding new people and converting fans of other candidates is that it directly harms the competition AND bolsters our ranks with people who we already know WILL turn out to vote. Its important to go through these exercises because there will be many people, the sort of people we need - that will vote for Huckabee simple because he is mentioned more in the mainstream.

[ronpaulfan]

Yes, but we can also consider this a mental exercise in how to convert people who generally support Huckabee but whose minds are not yet made, and would be willing to turn to Ron Paul is they simply knew how he was the better candidate. The difference between finding new people and converting fans of other candidates is that it directly harms the competition AND bolsters our ranks with people who we already know WILL turn out to vote. Its important to go through these exercises because there will be many people, the sort of people we need - that will vote for Huckabee simple because he is mentioned more in the mainstream.

Good point. Definitely convert people that are undecided. I'm only talking about those who have their minds made up and will cover their ears and yell "la-la-la-la-la" after every point you make.

[steph3n]

i don't do youtube, it is not person and the way I like to do things, I am not saying ti is bad, i just don't take that method.


The only sure-fire way I know of to convince that person is to do this:

Put together a YouTube video specifically tailored to convince him to support Ron Paul. For every issue your friend has, find a Ron Paul clip answering it.

Once you make it, tell your friend you believe so strongly in Ron Paul that you spent time making a YouTube video to persuade him. He'll have to hear Ron Paul out after doing something like that. I'm planning to do this for a few people I know.

[ThePieSwindler]

Good point. Definitely convert people that are undecided. I'm only talking about those who have their minds made up and will cover their ears and yell "la-la-la-la-la" after every point you make.

Well of course. My parents are a good example of people that just needed some guidance/direction - they first like Thompson, but now arent big fans, then turned to huckabee, but i explained the them the merits of Ron Pauls foreign policy and civil libertarianism, and how the ultimate goal was a return to strict constitutional principles, and they became Ron Paul supporters, and will turn out to vote for him in my state's primaries. Had i not focused on them (or say, i neglected other Huckabee supporters), that would have helped huckabee and hurt Paul, but as it stands, the opposite has occured. Its important to target polically active republicans who simply need direction and guidance - they will be the greatest boon to the campaign, and are the people we really need to win over.

[TruckinMike]

Interesting info on Huckabee and his social spending

http://www.arkansasfreedom.com/


Mr. Kincade,



I just read a letter you wrote in some paper exalting Mike Huckabee. You're as deceived as I was in 1994. I graduated with Mike Huckabee from Ouachita Baptist University with the same degree, BA in Religion. He and I both pastored Southern Baptist Churches. I served on the Cleburne County Republican Committee for about 10 years and was extremely active in 1994 when Huck was elected Lt. Governor, and Tim Hutchinson, another preacher was elected to the U.S. Senate from Arkansas.

When he was promoted to governor by default of Jim Guy Tucker, he began appointing Democrats to state boards and committee's. He completely ignored those who fought to get him elected in a close race for Lt. Governor.

Time and space forbids me detailing what a deceiver and oppressor Mike Huckabee is.

During his 10 years in the governors chair, 250,000 bankruptcies occured in Arkansas compared to 79,000 in the previous 10 years.

Huck sat silent while 43,000 manufactoring job went elsewhere. He's supported alien immigration to the hilt.

He led this state while taxes exploded. During his 10 years taxes increased more than in any 3 governors conbined, including Bill Clinton. Clinton's are conservative compared to Mike Huckabee. Explore his purchase of a state data processing debacle. He went to Germany to purchase software costing the state millions and millions of dollars more than he could have gotten in the U.S.A.. And, you believe he's for U.S. soveringty?

Arkansas had been in a court suit over state constitutional violations of school funding since 1992. Huck promised citizens if they would pass a constitutional amendment to designate 25 mills for operations and maintenence, it would get us out of the court suit. It passed, but it didn't get us out of the court order. We wound up raising sales taxes 1 percent, other fees and taxes unbelievable such as a 20 percent tax on rental cars.

Huck is the suckers man. I voted for him once, 1994, and that was once too many. Just ask the Carol Shields family in Missouri whom Huck's parolee Wayne DuMond strangled to death. They will surely support your man Mike Huckabee.



Sincerely,



Jim Glover

Heber Springs, AR

truckinmike

[Shogun108]

It is impossible to convert someone who's mind is already made up.

The fruitless hours you waste trying to convert a die-hard supporter are better spent introducing many new people to Ron Paul.

I'm so glad you feel that way and I'm pleased to see even more sense in you guys

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

You may be familiar with this. We skipped Ignore and went into ridicule then it was a fight and then it was to ignore. Oh well I still like the quote even if the context isn't the best. I'll still be here... :rolleyes:

I always will be... I've always enjoyed civil conversations... Message me if you wish to have one. P2P is a lot less intrusive...

[ThePieSwindler]

I'm so glad you feel that way and I'm pleased to see even more sense in you guys

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

You may be familiar with this. We skipped Ignore and went into ridicule then it was a fight and then it was to ignore. Oh well I still like the quote even if the context isn't the best. I'll still be here... :rolleyes:



The fuck are you talking about?

[Shogun108]

:D Lol as if you don't know! BTW watch your mouth... ;)

[qsecofr]

I've been reading the threads at Hucks site and I think you need to stress policy and be kind doing it to win them over. They seem to support Huck because he is a nice guy who appears approachable, many have expressed interest in Paul if it wasn't for his different stance on war and economy.

If you can explain to them clearly why abolishing the fed won't tank the economy and how a noninterventionalist foreign policy is more beneficial to our economy I think you'll have a decent shot.

It would appear the key factor is to be kind and respectful doing it, they seem to trust Huck but can be swayed if Paul's positions are explained thoroughly because many indicated Paul is considered at least as trustworthy.

My 0.02 anyway.

[ionlyknowy]

I have a plan to show Ron Paul to Christians all over the United States.. Here is the deal. I have started a google spreadsheet that lists the names of all 50 states with the major cities.

I need everyones help in filling out this spreadsheet. The way that you fill out the spreadsheet is to go to www.maps.google.com, then type "church near denver,co" or whatever city you want to search. Then it should bring up a lot of churches in the area. Go to these church websites and find their contact info. Try to get all of the pastors in the church. Then enter their emails into my spreadsheet. The more volunteers the better. If you want to volunteer then send me your email address to austin.garrison@gmail.com and I will send you the link to the spreadsheet. This could be huge, as Ron needs the conservative religious base that usually support the Repubs for him to win. And I believe that if they here this message then they have no choice but to vote for him.

Once the spreadsheet is filled up, I will then send out an email to all of these pastors with the following email:


---------------------


Hi, I am writing to you out of concern for our country and our Christian religion. I have come across some information that is vitally important to the American people. Many in the general public do not know about the information in these videos and for good reason. Please take the time to watch these videos and distribute them to your family, friends and colleagues.

Watch this 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxzs46Nxohk&mode=related&search =

Watch this 2nd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo5CZvD3-QM&mode=related&search =

The following video is purely speculation, but it is a good example as to what may be on the horizon..

Watch this 3rd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

Many people know about the CFR and the NAU already, and have rallied around one person.

There is a media blackout of this candidate even though he has won the the last few republican presidential debate polls by a landslide. He is not a member of the CFR and is one of the only candidates running that is against the NAU and the Real ID Act. I fear that if the NAU is to come to pass, then we may be subjected to micro chipping. As Christians we know that in the end times a one world government will be implemented. And the NAU, I fear, is part of this.

Watch this 4th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsh7kLD88o

Watch this 5th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfdB5OzlyQ

The official website is the following: - look under the "Issues" tab to read about his platform.
www.ronpaul2008.com

Another point of concern is the implementation of electronic voting machines in many jurisdictions. These machines are easily hacked as seen in the following video.
The relative ease of hacking electronic voting machines makes their use suspect in any election. But sadly, not much has been done to address this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GamR4y_ykA0

Thank you for taking the time to review these videos, and I hope that the people of the United States can collectively put an end to this. Please forward this to anyone that you think this would concern.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

-------------------------------

[mavtek]

I think it's safe to say if Huck's supporters are anything like this guy, it's a big waste of time. I think right now they are a bit cocky because they have a little momentum this month. A 1st straw poll win, pretty much anyway, some media coverage, and the fund raising seems to be going well.

Something they are sorely forgetting is that RP still has 7-8 times the amount of cash as Huck. Hucksters also should not forget RP is already running television and radio ads in the early primary states. I think a reality check is in short order.

Oh and I think it's safe to say they don't understand our money bombs or other special fundraising tools, or that our candidate has a real message, not rhetoric.

[qsecofr]

Haha from what I read they monitor this forum pretty regularly.

Hello Hucksters from RP Forums :cool:

I guess I'm kettle calling pot black at this point... also I find it odd Rudy doesn't have any interesting grassroots forums;)

[TVMH]

Interesting info on Huckabee and his social spending

http://www.arkansasfreedom.com/



truckinmike

ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. :eek:

[ronpaulfan]

by the way. I changed my loud obnoxious post for clarity :rolleyes:

It is impossible to convert someone pigheaded and unwilling to listen to you or Ron Paul.

The fruitless hours you waste trying to convert a die-hard Hillary/Ghouliani/Huckabee supporter are better spent introducing many new people to Ron Paul.

And yes, a tactic of the enemy is to trick you into pointless debates. I see this on YouTube all the time.

[Shogun108]

Haha from what I read they monitor this forum pretty regularly.

Hello Hucksters from RP Forums :cool:

I guess I'm kettle calling pot black at this point... also I find it odd Rudy doesn't have any interesting grassroots forums;)

Seems you get the wrong impression by my presence. Oh well I can't blame you for that...;)

[ape]

Hmm, huckabee comes off as a more religious verison of GWB, what a disaster. The impression i've gotten from the few huckabee supporters i've met in real life is that they think we are in a holy war against islam, and that we need to fight them over there so we're not fighting them here. You have to be pretty uninformed or misinformed to support a guy like Mike Huckabee.

[constituent]

Isn't this guy suppose to be a Minister?

typical.

[amberj]

So I just got an email from a relative with this message...

There might actually be a decent choice for the conservative voter. I think this guy is worth watching.

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/huckabee/2007/10/24/43622.html

It makes me want to shoot myself. I think these particular relatives of mine are into the whole uber-religious, Islam-fighting, gay-hating politics. In fact, I talked to one of them recently and she basically said (I'm paraphrasing) that the war must be doing something good because this has been the longest span of time that we haven't been attacked by terrorists. Nevermind the fact that there won't be a country for them to attack if we completely bankrupt ourselves trying to take over the Middle East.

Somehow I don't think they will be won over by Ron Paul... mainly because of the war issue.

[TVMH]

So I just got an email from a relative with this message...

There might actually be a decent choice for the conservative voter. I think this guy is worth watching.

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/huckabee/2007/10/24/43622.html

It makes me want to shoot myself. I think these particular relatives of mine are into the whole uber-religious, Islam-fighting, gay-hating politics. In fact, I talked to one of them recently and she basically said (I'm paraphrasing) that the war must be doing something good because this has been the longest span of time that we haven't been attacked by terrorists. Nevermind the fact that there won't be a country for them to attack if we completely bankrupt ourselves trying to take over the Middle East.

Somehow I don't think they will be won over by Ron Paul... mainly because of the war issue.

You should respond and just send them a link to that article by john_anderson_ii posted on politicallore... http://www.politicallore.com/?p=62

[amberj]

You should respond and just send them a link to that article by john_anderson_ii posted on politicallore... http://www.politicallore.com/?p=62

That was a very good article. I'm going to send it out to them and some other family members. Most of my family likes Ron Paul and while not committing 100% to him, he is one of their top choices. The other ones who sent me that email send me a lot of pro-war emails, so it'll be a lot more difficult to try to get them to Ron Paul's side. But I'll keep trying...

[Buzz]

In fact, I talked to one of them recently and she basically said (I'm paraphrasing) that the war must be doing something good because this has been the longest span of time that we haven't been attacked by terrorists.

Oh dear god...

[RickSp]

Is waterboarding out of the question?

I guess so. Huckabee supports waterboarding, after all.

[Original_Intent]

Start with an exorcism?

Unclean spirit of sutpidity I command thee to depart! :D