Ron Paul and Anarchy/Voluntarism?

[AlexMerced]

I've always thought of Ron Paul as a Strict constitutionalists which I consider just one tick up from Minarchy although as of late I feel his tone has changed more towards voluntarist anarchist one... while i"m sure he'll still do the constitutionalists thing it makes me wonder if the constitutionalists was him trying to be moderate this whole time, lol.

Behavior to Support:

- He asked if people would opt out of THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, while most of us interpret that as opting out of the entitlement system Ron Pauls use of the words is usally very deliberate for example his reference to cutting MILITARY spending not DEFENSE spending

- his use of the word of voluntarism and his awesome diatribe about how compulsion and prohibition never works or solves social problems on CNN.

- Plus the fact that the bulk of his economic idols like Murray Rothbard are pretty hardcore anarchist, although the mises crowd does have a handful of Minarchist/Constitutionlists like Tom Woods although the vast majority are openly anarchists (Robert Higgs, Robert Murphy, Walter Block, Han Hermann Hoppe, etc.)


BOTTOM LINE:

The Ron Paul brand is and will be the constitution, but I'm beginning to wonder if constitutionalism is Ron Pauls version of centrism (which would be massively awesome, cause that should be the center). For the record, I see none of the anarchist streak in Rand Paul who's more in that cushy spot between constitutionalism and minarchy.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Just to correct you, Thomas Woods is an anarchist.

[specialkornflake]

I've turned Ancap myself since the last election. Ron Paul has spent years reading on related subjects. This raises some very interesting points. I think it's nice to call the position a Centrist one. Yet, could Ron Paul have converted to Anarcho-Capitalism at some point and be 'hiding' his true beliefs? I don't remember language like we heard at CPAC in his Presidential Campaign. This wasn't the standard speech. He uses the key word of Liberty over and over. Maybe this is the cause of some of his hesitation to run? This is probably another reason why I like Ron Paul more than Rand Paul at this point.

[AlexMerced]

Just to correct you, Thomas Woods is an anarchist.

Good, didn't know that, but I guess it's hard to be a mises fellow a not venturing become anarchist, roderick long on a recent appearance on lew Rockwell really made a great case for anarcho capitalism

But yeah, Ron Pauls talk recently has definetly a very different tone, he does occasionally evolve his views like his views on the death penalty which used to be for and now he's against.

Ron Paul and the Mises crew are my heroes, the irony is that Mises and Hayek were daily mild minarchist yet the institute in his name is pretty fragrantly an-cap

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Good, didn't know that, but I guess it's hard to be a mises fellow a not venturing become anarchist, roderick long on a recent appearance on lew Rockwell really made a great case for anarcho capitalism

But yeah, Ron Pauls talk recently has definetly a very different tone, he does occasionally evolve his views like his views on the death penalty which used to be for and now he's against.

Ron Paul and the Mises crew are my heroes, the irony is that Mises and Hayek were daily mild minarchist yet the institute in his name is pretty fragrantly an-cap

This has been brought up before and they answered it. Summarily paraphrased that the Mises Institute was named for their intellectual father, but that since they have evolved their views and the Institute is really Rothbard/Hoppe influenced. I mean it's not far-fetched as Long pointed out Mises own argument on the socialist calculation debate applies to the Governments monopoly on law, courts, etc. as well as to any other good or service. I also agree that the Mises Institute is absolutely amazing. Without them and Lew and Justin and the guys over at Antiwar and other radical libertarian places elsewhere I'd be in the complete dark - a sheep led to the slaughter. Jacob Hornberger is amazing with FFF and FEE with Leonard Reed is doing amazing things and all of these places are almost completely anarcho-capitalist. It's a testament to the strength of the free-market analysis and argument. We've come a long way and I think it is going to grow rapidly.

PS: I would argue that Mises wasn't against anarcho-capitalism and toward the end of his life started to embrace the position because of his great student Murray Rothbard whom he said won him over on many issues especially with MES P&M.

[Matt Collins]

I watched a recent interview with Ron on cable news (I can't remember which one but it happened within the last week) and he CLEARLY said "This is why I lean more with the voluntarism side of things".

[Fredom101]

Excellent topic. Thanks for bringing it up. I think RP leans ancap, but is playing the game. Notice how he stays away from the border issue as much as possible...I think this is one issue where he is pandering, since in 1988, he took the voluntaryist position.

Also, don't forget, RP is NOT a minarchist- he did say in an interview that if it came down to small gov't vs. anarchy, he would side with the anarchists.

[Wesker1982]

PS: I would argue that Mises wasn't against anarcho-capitalism and toward the end of his life started to embrace the position because of his great student Murray Rothbard whom he said won him over on many issues especially with MES P&M.

I think he was arguing against anarcho-socialism when he was arguing against anarchy.

To the OP: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?274614-Any-anarcho-capitalists-here&p=3050709#post3050709 and http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?266167-Anarchists-Are-a-Brood-of-Vipers&p=2954247#post2954247. He praises Rothbard a lot in 'End the Fed' too, there are a few pages dedicated to him.

In short:



even if Ron Paul is not an anarchist (whole diff debate:D), he obviously doesn't despise them or think they are crazy utopians (or a 'brood of vipers' LOL) like a lot of minarchists do. In fact I think it could be easily argued that not only does he not despise them, he admires them.

[Vessol]

I'm a voluntaryist and I support Ron Paul. Going to CPAC, getting RP in the news, I think this is all raising education of liberty.

[AlexMerced]

This has been brought up before and they answered it. Summarily paraphrased that the Mises Institute was named for their intellectual father, but that since they have evolved their views and the Institute is really Rothbard/Hoppe influenced. I mean it's not far-fetched as Long pointed out Mises own argument on the socialist calculation debate applies to the Governments monopoly on law, courts, etc. as well as to any other good or service. I also agree that the Mises Institute is absolutely amazing. Without them and Lew and Justin and the guys over at Antiwar and other radical libertarian places elsewhere I'd be in the complete dark - a sheep led to the slaughter. Jacob Hornberger is amazing with FFF and FEE with Leonard Reed is doing amazing things and all of these places are almost completely anarcho-capitalist. It's a testament to the strength of the free-market analysis and argument. We've come a long way and I think it is going to grow rapidly.

PS: I would argue that Mises wasn't against anarcho-capitalism and toward the end of his life started to embrace the position because of his great student Murray Rothbard whom he said won him over on many issues especially with MES P&M.

Also got to take into the fact that Mises spent a large part of his life a Beurocrat, so I think that may have effected his ability to make the final steps, but I agree with you on all points. Although, I'd probably would be happier with government if all beurocrats were like Mises.

[AlexMerced]

I've turned Ancap myself since the last election. Ron Paul has spent years reading on related subjects. This raises some very interesting points. I think it's nice to call the position a Centrist one. Yet, could Ron Paul have converted to Anarcho-Capitalism at some point and be 'hiding' his true beliefs? I don't remember language like we heard at CPAC in his Presidential Campaign. This wasn't the standard speech. He uses the key word of Liberty over and over. Maybe this is the cause of some of his hesitation to run? This is probably another reason why I like Ron Paul more than Rand Paul at this point.

Same here, I went from progressive registered democrat to Anarcho-Capitalist Intellectual in 4 years... Ron Paul really has made my life what it is today, my job, my hobbies, everything