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dmspilot00
10-23-2007, 12:09 AM
I've read all over the internet that there are people from all over the world, Canadians, Australians, etc., who want Ron Paul to be our next president. What if someone (either myself or several of us) were to set up a website, like worldforronpaul.com or something, to accept donations from foreigners--to be used for unofficial grass roots support? Is that a legitimate idea? Are there any cons to this? Do you think it would help?

Cali4RonPaul
10-23-2007, 12:12 AM
Legally I dont think there is any issue to this so long as its not directly related to the campaign itself. But im not entirely sure, good question though, I hope someone with 100% certainty can enlighten us though.

Kacela
10-23-2007, 12:12 AM
I've read all over the internet that there are people from all over the world, Canadians, Australians, etc., who want Ron Paul to be our next president. What if someone (either myself or several of us) were to set up a website, like worldforronpaul.com or something, to accept donations from foreigners--to be used for unofficial grass roots support? Is that a legitimate idea? Are there any cons to this? Do you think it would help?

Unlike the Hillary campaign, nobody will be allowed to accept a foreign donation directly; might I suggest you look at some of the worthy grassroots groups of "soldiers" that are compiled here: http://ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

andrewgreve
10-23-2007, 12:24 AM
..

Nefertiti
10-23-2007, 03:27 AM
Why do these threads seem to pop up every 2 weeks? Not only is such activity illegal, but it is not in keeping with Ron Paul's philosophy. He's against foreign intervention, and that includes influencing foreign elections. It really upsets me when I see Americans inviting foreigners to influence our own elections. It's so hypocritical. Permanent residents are allowed to donate like Americans but other than that it is illegal.

Corydoras
10-23-2007, 03:32 AM
There is no law against your going to tourist spots and American military bases in your own countries and campaigning to Americans. You could hold signs and hand out slim jims.

libertythor
10-23-2007, 03:32 AM
They can do the chip ins probably.

literatim
10-23-2007, 03:35 AM
They can do the chip ins probably.

Yeah, foreigners should just stick with doing all the chip ins for grassroots projects.

steph3n
10-23-2007, 03:55 AM
when was the last time such interest from citizen of the world were for removing all world foreign aid, including what we may give them :D

Not that i care, i just find it ironic, but don't give to people to give, nor to the campaign, it will just have to be refunded. It is not legal.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 04:51 AM
Plenty of foreigners are donating through American friends. I know because I have firsthand experience with this ;)

Me too, I encourage others to freely interact with their American brothers and sisters.

Trassin
10-23-2007, 04:52 AM
I would say the best way to get them involved would be to point them towards the Chip-in section of the Ron Paul Graphs page:
http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 05:04 AM
I would say the best way to get them involved would be to point them towards the Chip-in section of the Ron Paul Graphs page:
http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html

What's the story with Pay-Pal? I have never signed up for credit cards (49) and do not wish to. I do however have a direct debit card for tickets, hotels, airline etc. issued by my bank in Australia... I might have to make enquiries at my end.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 05:11 AM
Is Pay-Pal like a direct debit card? We have different terminology most likely. When I say "direct debit card", it means I can use it exactly as a credit card, but must have sufficient funds in my account at the time of purchase (donation).

foofighter20x
10-23-2007, 05:28 AM
I've heard of foreigners who are donating through American friends.

And they are violating federal campaign finance laws. You need to tell them not to do that.

foofighter20x
10-23-2007, 05:30 AM
They can do the chip ins probably.

I'm not a lawyer (yet) but my understanding is that money from foreigners cannot go to the campaign, either directly or indirectly, and cannot go towards any radio or television spots, whether from the campaign or not.

Other than that, donate away.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 05:36 AM
Not indirectly? Are you sure?

foofighter20x
10-23-2007, 05:41 AM
Not indirectly? Are you sure?

Yes. I'm sure.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode02/usc_sec_02_00000441---e000-.html


(a) Prohibition

It shall be unlawful for—

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 434 (f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

Electioneering communication is a radio or TV ad.

(1) Says what foreigners cannot do.
(2) Says it's YOUR ass if you get caught helping them.

Not only is it illegal, it WILL reflect poorly on the campaign when it gets discovered. Look at all the negative media Hillary got with that one dude.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 05:44 AM
Geez... Here comes da man!

jacross
10-23-2007, 06:07 AM
Yeah as an Australian I know not to donate money to the campaign and would never do so. I do have an American friend and i know he does, but not with my money.

I have however sold him a pillow full of love for $100 US dollars. He was allowed to do whatever he wanted with the money. :)

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 06:11 AM
Yeah as an Australian I know not to donate money to the campaign and would never do so. I do have an American friend and i know he does, but not with my money.

I have however sold him a pillow full of love for $100 US dollars. He was allowed to do whatever he wanted with the money. :)

My contacts are sleeping on lumpy pillows too. I'm sleeping soundly!

Nefertiti
10-23-2007, 06:47 AM
Geez... Here comes da man!

Well, it's the American man not the Aussie man so what business is it of yours?

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 06:59 AM
Not sure I get your drift???

freedominnumbers
10-23-2007, 07:04 AM
Foreign funding of Chip-Ins is awesome. That's the way to go.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 07:14 AM
Well, it's the American man not the Aussie man so what business is it of yours?

Please explain. I'm waiting...

foofighter20x
10-23-2007, 07:15 AM
Not sure I get your drift???

I think she said that you are the Aussie while I am the Yank Down Under. :p

Nefertiti
10-23-2007, 07:15 AM
What part of non-intervention do you fail to understand?

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 07:18 AM
Don't speak in metaphors, come out and say what you mean...

Channing
10-23-2007, 07:21 AM
There are plenty of grassroots actions that need funding. Donate to them.

Eric21ND
10-23-2007, 07:25 AM
Please help with this chipin if you can.

http://www.chipin.com/widget/id/23e1744fca7d2370

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 07:25 AM
There are plenty of grassroots actions that need funding. Donate to them.


No!!! It is illegal for foreigners to contribute regardless!!!

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 07:31 AM
Well, it's the American man not the Aussie man so what business is it of yours?

Care to elaborate my son, or are you just a gutless wonder?

Bradley in DC
10-23-2007, 07:33 AM
Yes. I'm sure.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode02/usc_sec_02_00000441---e000-.html



Electioneering communication is a radio or TV ad.

(1) Says what foreigners cannot do.
(2) Says it's YOUR ass if you get caught helping them.

Not only is it illegal, it WILL reflect poorly on the campaign when it gets discovered. Look at all the negative media Hillary got with that one dude.

So it seems as though foreigners can act the same way as non-profits and do issue advocacy, etc, but not direct endorsements.

Man from La Mancha
10-23-2007, 07:44 AM
Can you explain to me the way the Israel funds all the other candidates please?

.

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 07:53 AM
Well, it's the American man not the Aussie man so what business is it of yours?

Ahh, your a woman, that gives you special priveleges... No need to reply...

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 07:57 AM
Can you explain to me the way the Israel funds all the other candidates please?

.


AIPAC, JINSA, ADL, JDL, AJC are funded primarily through Israeli Americans, Jewish Americans (approx. 25%), and American gentiles, i.e., Christian Zionists, that promote Zionist ideology for Israel. Israelis cannot contribute to campaigns unless, they know Americans, give money to them directly or through an institute, and are "hush-hush" about it- I am sure this occurs quite often.

I hope you all realize that the aid we give Israel each year has to be spent here in the USA- I am sure some of it makes its way back to these organizations.

For safe keeping, just to let you know, the majority of American Jews do not support our current foreign policy in the middle east. So a lot of these organizations do not support the interests of most American Jews.

kimosabi
10-23-2007, 08:02 AM
What about funding meetup groups that are waiting to be started, that haven't been paid for yet, can't see anything wrong with that, personally...

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 08:03 AM
What about funding meetup groups that are waiting to be started, paid for, can't see anything wrong with that, personally.


Illegal.

Read what I wrote above.

;)

CAKochenash
10-23-2007, 08:11 AM
Why do these threads seem to pop up every 2 weeks? Not only is such activity illegal, but it is not in keeping with Ron Paul's philosophy. He's against foreign intervention, and that includes influencing foreign elections. It really upsets me when I see Americans inviting foreigners to influence our own elections. It's so hypocritical. Permanent residents are allowed to donate like Americans but other than that it is illegal.

Oh no!...I think i've just got the blood of a redcoat on my new linens...well I quit...

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 08:12 AM
Yeah as an Australian I know not to donate money to the campaign and would never do so. I do have an American friend and i know he does, but not with my money.

I have however sold him a pillow full of love for $100 US dollars. He was allowed to do whatever he wanted with the money. :)

This was a carefully worded statement. This is probably the best a foreigner could possibly do. However, there cannot be a statement saying money has to go to or could go to the campaign or grassroots effort. Any type of suggestion otherwise is illegal.

Ninja Homer
10-23-2007, 08:18 AM
Just sell some special edition bumper stickers for $100 each.

kimosabi
10-23-2007, 08:23 AM
Can someone sell me a $2000 Ron Paul t-shirt???

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 08:35 AM
Can someone sell me a $2000 Ron Paul t-shirt???

LOL!!!

Wanting to buy Ron Paul stuff and being a foreigner (if you are) on this site will probably not work to your advantage.

;)

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 08:39 AM
Can someone sell me a $2000 Ron Paul t-shirt???

Your breaking me up!

Man from La Mancha
10-23-2007, 08:42 AM
Can someone sell me a $2000 Ron Paul t-shirt???
Is it autographed by Ron?

.

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 08:46 AM
Can someone sell me a $2000 Ron Paul t-shirt???

Anything overvalued against the going market price especially anything that has Ron Paul on it, can be or most likely will be investigated by FEC and lead up to criminal prosecution.

;)

kimosabi
10-23-2007, 08:50 AM
Anything overvalued against the going market price especially anything that has Ron Paul on it, can be or most likely will be investigated by FEC and lead up to criminal prosecution.

;)
If it is signed I'll pay $20,000 because it will be a collectors item.

I'll buy the t-shirt from a Ron Paul supporter and what they do with the money is their business. ;)

KewlRonduderules
10-23-2007, 09:00 AM
If it is signed I'll pay $20,000 because it will be a collectors item.

I'll buy the t-shirt from a Ron Paul supporter and what they do with the money is their business. ;)


And this is where I end my input...

;)

Ozwest
10-23-2007, 09:06 AM
Get that man a autographed Ron Paul T- shirt!

lastnymleft
11-03-2007, 11:34 PM
Why do these threads seem to pop up every 2 weeks? Not only is such activity illegal, but it is not in keeping with Ron Paul's philosophy. He's against foreign intervention, and that includes influencing foreign elections.

Perhaps it's seen not as foreign intervention, but as a means to *stop* foreign intervention? To stop the USG from putting military bases on 150 *other* countries, and meddling in their affairs. To stop the USG from bombing/invading any more than the ~50 countries that have been bombed/invaded by the USG *since the end of WWII*. What rights do those people have? They're apparently not allowed to reject interventionism violently (Iraq). They're apparently not allowed to reject interventionism peacefully (by helping a non-interventionist win office). So just what *can* people being "intervened" against do? Bend over forwards, brace yourself, keep a stiff upper lip, and "think of Britain"?

Tarzan
11-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Almost none of what has been described in this forum is legal... so, don't do it because of the risk to yourself and the campaign.

BUT... an independently established group could establish themselves and, with proper identification and notifications, run fairness ads. For example, a group might be called "Fair Debates for America" and run ads which encourage fairness in the debates. The ads could include the fact the legitimate candidates, such as Ron Paul, should be included by the MSM. These ads could run in important areas such as Iowa, New Hampshire, etc.

This type of group is allowed to take UNLIMITED funds from donors... including (unlimited) funds from outside the US. Check with your lawyer first!

We don't want something to cause a problem for the campaign... so, it might be better to call the group "Australians for Fair American Elections" and even have someone with an Australian accent do the voice overs... and make it clear from whence the message is coming.

Just my own random thoughts.

ashevillejerry
11-20-2007, 04:12 AM
I am a paralegal, familiar with these issues, and have posted a legal solution on another thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=40239).

Yours in Liberty

Jerry
RonPaulMax.com (http://www.ronpaulmax.com)

raiha
12-01-2007, 12:06 AM
Pray, try not to pour cold water on effervescent foreign nationals.

Many of us are not actually mesmerised by your country or your political system.
It's just that we live in a shrinking global situation where we are just as detrimentally affected by the scourge of Big Biz corporations (many of which were spawned in the U.S.) as you are, and as are 'foreign nationals' from countries who are unable to speak for themselves, often because they have been compromised by foreign and fiscal policy born in the U.S.A.

You also have a president who talks about usable nuclear weapons and World War Three. So whether you like it or not, we are deeply concerned and deeply pissed off that decisions your voting public make will impact significantly on our 'foreign national' lives and the lives of our descendants.
So kindly do not make snide remarks about people who wish to pour their energy into the campaign. I believe we have earned the right to do whatever we can to get the only credible presidential candidate who would not sell his grandmother for a song, into the White House!
Or as we would put it in Antipodean language, pull your collective heads in (the ones who translate our input as meddling that is!)

It is obvious we cannot help financially. We just need to get creative, check things out with
AshevilleJerry on the admirable RonPaulMax.com and work together.

Your Obedient Servant,

Raiha