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Anti Federalist
02-11-2011, 09:46 PM
Probably should be in "Bearing Arms" but I'd like to see this get some exposure, if for no reason than the highlighted part.

Well, it didn't take long, what's it been 20 years or less that Switzerland has been a member of the UN and EU?

Join and die...



Swiss Reservists May Have to Give Up Guns

Referendum would change tradition of keeping weapons at home

http://www.newser.com/story/111799/swiss-reservists-may-have-to-give-up-guns.html

(Newser) – Switzerland's gun laws are closer to America's than those of most other European countries, but a referendum this weekend may curb the centuries-old tradition of armed households. Most Swiss males under 50 are military reservists and usually take their military-issue rifles home with them, but the initiative being voted on would require them to store the weapons in public arsenals instead, Der Spiegel reports.


A persistently high suicide rate and several mass murders have weakened support for gun ownership, and polls suggest the measure will narrowly pass, despite stiff opposition from the military and traditionalists who invoke folk hero marksman William Tell. One poll found that women were 24% more likely to favor the gun control measure, the widest gender-based difference the polling institute has ever recorded. "Many women believe that it is unnecessary to keep a firearm at home nowadays whereas men typically fear for cherished Swiss traditions," the pollster says.

LibForestPaul
02-11-2011, 09:49 PM
WOW! So even the Swiss are stupid. Expected more from them.

Anti Federalist
02-11-2011, 09:59 PM
WOW! So even the Swiss are stupid. Expected more from them.

What a 1000 years of invasion could not do, the globalist Borg managed in 20 years.

Assimilation into the hive.

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-11-2011, 10:01 PM
These people are so fucking stupid. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world precisely because of the widespread dissemination of weaponry and they have the audacity to point to some fucking stupid shit as 'high rate of suicides'? Like these people couldn't kill themselves 10,000 different ways.

I think the libertarian 'borg' needs to coalesce by my good friend AF. Rally to NH! :p Just as the borg can assimilate tyranny, we can assimilate liberty.

Pericles
02-11-2011, 10:42 PM
By way of background, so you can consider what I am about to write. I have lived in Switzerland full time for over 10 years (moved there in 1997) and have a residence permit - I also speak German.

It takes 100,000 signatures to put any measure on the ballot in Switzerland. If a measure is rejected, it has to wait 2 years before being voted on again. Crap like this or abolishing the Army comes up every two years since 1989.

On the other hand, Switzerland is the country in Europe mist like the US and "progressive" ideas have taken root and are screwing the place up to more resemble the US.

For some more background:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gun_debate/Campaign/Emotions_and_tradition_clash_over_anti-gun_move.html?cid=29083616

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/audios_podcast/Great_guns.html?cid=29476232&view=podcastDetail&autoPlay=y

madengr
02-11-2011, 10:42 PM
So what about non military weapons? Does the Swiss government recognize the right to bear arms? The EU charter sure the hell does not. It actually enumerates rights to it's subjects; scary shit.

Anti Federalist
02-11-2011, 10:45 PM
So what is the story here?

Is this a referendum that has already gotten the required 10k signatures?




By way of background, so you can consider what I am about to write. I have lived in Switzerland full time for over 10 years (moved there in 1997) and have a residence permit - I also speak German.

It takes 100,000 signatures to put any measure on the ballot in Switzerland. If a measure is rejected, it has to wait 2 years before being voted on again. Crap like this or abolishing the Army comes up every two years since 1989.

On the other hand, Switzerland is the country in Europe mist like the US and "progressive" ideas have taken root and are screwing the place up to more resemble the US.

For some more background:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gun_debate/Campaign/Emotions_and_tradition_clash_over_anti-gun_move.html?cid=29083616

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/audios_podcast/Great_guns.html?cid=29476232&view=podcastDetail&autoPlay=y

Pericles
02-11-2011, 10:58 PM
So what about non military weapons? Does the Swiss government recognize the right to bear arms? The EU charter sure the hell does not. It actually enumerates rights to it's subjects; scary shit.

Before Switzerland joined the Schlengen treaty with the EU, I filled out a form for a criminal background check, it was run through the police and when it comes back clear, you went down to city hall and got your permit for the purchase of up to 6 weapons. If you wanted more than 6, or wanted to get automatic weapons, you filled out another form, notifying the authorities you were going to do that. (Even I as a non Swiss citizen, but with a permanent residence permit could do that.)

No more automatic weapons after Schlengen.

Two years ago, reservists had to turn in their Army issue ammunition (200 rounds per man), you can still buy your own ammunition - 5.6mm Swiss (the military caliber) is interchangeable with 5.56mm NATO.

One of the political principles in Switzerland is the sovereignty of the people and almost anything they vote will become law, with an exception to things that are considered fundamental human rights under the Swiss constitution. Thus is how the no minarets on Mosques got passed.

Pericles
02-11-2011, 11:02 PM
So what is the story here?

Is this a referendum that has already gotten the required 10(0)k signatures?

Yes, it will be voted on 13th of February.

daviddee
02-11-2011, 11:19 PM
By way of background, so you can consider what I am about to write. I have lived in Switzerland full time for over 10 years (moved there in 1997) and have a residence permit - I also speak German.

It takes 100,000 signatures to put any measure on the ballot in Switzerland. If a measure is rejected, it has to wait 2 years before being voted on again. Crap like this or abolishing the Army comes up every two years since 1989.

On the other hand, Switzerland is the country in Europe mist like the US and "progressive" ideas have taken root and are screwing the place up to more resemble the US.

For some more background:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gun_debate/Campaign/Emotions_and_tradition_clash_over_anti-gun_move.html?cid=29083616

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/audios_podcast/Great_guns.html?cid=29476232&view=podcastDetail&autoPlay=y

This sucks. Switzerland is, and has been, on my top destinations list to live :(

Can you PM me your e-mail address? I would like to ask you some questions.

NYgs23
02-11-2011, 11:34 PM
One poll found that women were 24% more likely to favor the gun control measure

Stuff like this really makes it tough not to sympathize the possibility that the patriarchs of old had the right idea to keep gurls out of public life. But, in the end, I realize that there are freedom-lovers and freedom-haters of both sexes, and we need to focus on booting the -haters out of power, in whatever form they come.

juvanya
02-12-2011, 02:19 AM
Well they started by selling off their gold...

hazek
02-12-2011, 06:38 AM
Why oh why?!

First they go and break a 40% linkage of their Swiss Francs to gold in 2000 via referendum and now they'll willingly disarm themselves? What would posses a folk to do such idiotic things?

nobody's_hero
02-12-2011, 10:24 AM
The temptation of trade with other nations . . .

I'm all for it, but it plays into globalists' hands so long as governments exist. And they exist and will exist.

Don't chase the carrot, Switzerland.

osan
02-12-2011, 10:25 AM
This sucks. Switzerland is, and has been, on my top destinations list to live :(

Can you PM me your e-mail address? I would like to ask you some questions.

Unless you have a spanking lot of money, they will not allow you to immigrate. My cousins live in Berne - they are both high caliber doctors, which is what they had to offer. I *might* be able to go there to live because I have family already there, but even that is in serious question.

Pericles
02-12-2011, 09:16 PM
If you show up with 2 million Swiss ($2.1 mil US at current exchange), you get to go to the front of the line and probably get the C residence permit.

If you have company sponsorship, have a skill needed in the economy, and are from a "civilized" country, you will get a B residence permit.

If you get in as part of a Kanton's quota, of permits, you will get an A or L as temporary labor.

The type of permit is important as the C is permanent resident, and after 5 years as a B if from a "civilized" country, or 10 years as a B if from an "uncivilized" country, you can get a C permit. A, L, and O (political refugee) do not count toward the 5 or 10 year requirement for permanent residence.

The Swiss economy is a study in oligopoly. The labor supply is restricted (even if 20% of the population is foreign), agriculture is subsidized with food prices about twice that of France. Almost the entire retail sector is owned by two holding companies, mom and pop stores a dying institution. As one of my friends put it, "yeah its a managed economy, but it is a generally well managed economy."

A crisis is if unemployment hits 2%, and incomes are about twice that of the US.

The problem, like in the US, is too much prosperity for too long. A number of people in the Green or Social Democrat parties now think there is money to be had for any social scheme they can think of. They get support for the social schemes from the Christian Democrats quite often and the Greens (10%). The opposition parties are the Swiss Peoples Party, and the Free Democrat Party. The Swiss Peoples party got 29% (neocon right) of the vote, the Social Democrats 20% (socialists), the Free Democrats 16% (somewhat libertarian), and the Christian Democrats 15% (blue dog democrats) which form the coalition government and have for the last 60+ years (but in different percentages). The complexion has changed in the last 15 years as the Swiss Peoples party has about doubled it percentage of the vote.

AFPVet
02-12-2011, 09:20 PM
I just have to say it... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have been proud of my Swiss ancestry... this is not a bright move.

Pericles
02-12-2011, 09:30 PM
I just have to say it... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have been proud of my Swiss ancestry... this is not a bright move.

It gets crazier all of the time. The Social Democrats floated the idea out there that foreigners with C permits (like me) get the right to vote. If that had gone through, I'd have to cast my vote to stop that crap. But I live in a town where the FDP has 7 of the 15 seats on the town council. The FDP motto is trade, technology, and tourism as economic policy - they got really pissed at the EU and wanted the Swiss federal government to negotiate a free trade agreement with the USA as a counterweight to the EU. But that was before the IRS took after one of the Swiss banks and pissed off everybody in Switzerland at the US government.

daviddee
02-12-2011, 10:16 PM
Unless you have a spanking lot of money, they will not allow you to immigrate. My cousins live in Berne - they are both high caliber doctors, which is what they had to offer. I *might* be able to go there to live because I have family already there, but even that is in serious question.

I am aware of the cost of living and the rules for immigration.

Anyone that discusses Switzerland, seriously, knows the situation.

Cost of admission is high, rules are tight, but these are the parameters one has to live within.

Pericles
02-12-2011, 10:37 PM
I am aware of the cost of living and the rules for immigration.

Anyone that discusses Switzerland, seriously, knows the situation.

Cost of admission is high, rules are tight, but these are the parameters one has to live within.

The tax program is structured around getting 10% of a million, rather than 50% of 100K. No capital gains tax on investments is especially attractive.

daviddee
02-12-2011, 10:57 PM
The tax program is structured around getting 10% of a million, rather than 50% of 100K. No capital gains tax on investments is especially attractive.

I found the negotiation of tax rate to be quite interesting :)

Switzerland does not need to advertise... people who need to know... know.

They go after multinational companies right now, but if they started advertising for citizens that would bring everything we believe in to another level.

Imagine TV commercials: "Productive? Freedom loving? Tired of the USA? Investigate your options. We are not a "project" We already exist (Dig @ FSP)"

Pericles
02-12-2011, 11:05 PM
I found the negotiation of tax rate to be quite interesting :)

Switzerland does not need to advertise... people who need to know... know.

They go after multinational companies right now, but if they started advertising for citizens that would bring everything we believe in to another level.

Imagine TV commercials: "Productive? Freedom loving? Tired of the USA? Investigate your options. We are not a "project" We already exist (Dig @ FSP)"

There are a lot of good things there, but it isn't perfection. Health insurance is mandatory, and car insurance and inspections can be a pain.... Every December, I have to show up at city hall and show my proof of health insurance at the Einwohnerkontrolle (Residence Control). They are cool about the whole thing, recognizing it is a bureaucratic hassle, but I still have to take 15 minutes out of the day to do it, and nobody even thinks to say there is a better way of doing this - it is just the way it has always been done.

hazek
02-13-2011, 01:44 PM
Thank fking god: Swiss reject bid to tighten gun law

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/02/2011213115710819915.html

jclay2
02-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Thank fking god: Swiss reject bid to tighten gun law

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/02/2011213115710819915.html

Hurray! However, the fact that this even got to a vote in Switzerland is disturbing.

Pericles
02-13-2011, 01:55 PM
Thank fking god: Swiss reject bid to tighten gun law

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/02/2011213115710819915.html

Yes, but the long term trend is not good.

From http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gun_debate/News/Results/Swiss_voters_stick_to_their_gun_tradition.html?cid =29485688

The outcome of Sunday's nationwide ballot showed considerable differences between the different language regions and between urban and rural regions.

“Conservative and rural regions in German-speaking Switzerland together with Italian-speaking Ticino outvoted French-speaking western Switzerland,” said political scientist Claude Longchamp on public television.

Only six out of 26 cantons, notably in the west of the country and in urban regions including Geneva, Zurich and Basel approved the anti-gun initiative.

Geneva recorded a yes majority of about 61 per cent. However, rural cantons, particularly in central and eastern Switzerland, voted up to 72 per cent against.

Turnout was comparatively high with 49 per cent.

This means that Switzerland's "Röstigraben" is alive and well.

Carson
02-13-2011, 02:01 PM
Probably should be in "Bearing Arms" but I'd like to see this get some exposure, if for no reason than the highlighted part.

Well, it didn't take long, what's it been 20 years or less that Switzerland has been a member of the UN and EU?

Join and die...



Swiss Reservists May Have to Give Up Guns

Referendum would change tradition of keeping weapons at home

http://www.newser.com/story/111799/swiss-reservists-may-have-to-give-up-guns.html

(Newser) – Switzerland's gun laws are closer to America's than those of most other European countries, but a referendum this weekend may curb the centuries-old tradition of armed households. Most Swiss males under 50 are military reservists and usually take their military-issue rifles home with them, but the initiative being voted on would require them to store the weapons in public arsenals instead, Der Spiegel reports.


A persistently high suicide rate and several mass murders have weakened support for gun ownership, and polls suggest the measure will narrowly pass, despite stiff opposition from the military and traditionalists who invoke folk hero marksman William Tell. One poll found that women were 24% more likely to favor the gun control measure, the widest gender-based difference the polling institute has ever recorded. "Many women believe that it is unnecessary to keep a firearm at home nowadays whereas men typically fear for cherished Swiss traditions," the pollster says.

I suppose the women figure they have something else to fall back on in times of trouble.

Pericles
02-13-2011, 02:56 PM
I suppose the women figure they have something else to fall back on in times of trouble.

What trouble? Switzerland is the country where nothing bad (hardly) ever happens. Just ask anybody who lives there. I just knew those f*ckers in Geneva and Zurich would vote for it, and disappointed in Basel, but Basel has gone to Hell in the last 10 years.

Carson
02-13-2011, 03:08 PM
What trouble? Switzerland is the country where nothing bad (hardly) ever happens. Just ask anybody who lives there. I just knew those f*ckers in Geneva and Zurich would vote for it, and disappointed in Basel, but Basel has gone to Hell in the last 10 years.

Maybe because nobody has been able to get their guns or wrench them out of the tunnel system and other defenses they have.

"Everyone knows that “Switzerland does not have an army. Switzerland IS an army,” quipped an observer." (http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=367)


With globalist controlling the money supply they will be able to print up what ever it take to get their way. They will push and push until they do.

We are going to have to regain control of our government before we can regain control of our currency.
We are going to have to regain control of our currency before we can regain control of our country.

ItsTime
02-13-2011, 03:12 PM
First rule in good military strategy, place all your weapons in one place.

Pericles
02-13-2011, 03:26 PM
The main group behind all of this is named Switzerland Without an Army which tells you all you need to know. They think being neutral means being defenseless.

Pennsylvania
02-13-2011, 04:21 PM
Thank you sister republic!

BlackTerrel
02-13-2011, 04:53 PM
These people are so fucking stupid. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world precisely because of the widespread dissemination of weaponry and they have the audacity to point to some fucking stupid shit as 'high rate of suicides'? Like these people couldn't kill themselves 10,000 different ways.

Tons of guns, super low crime rate. Wonder if they'll ever put 2 and 2 together?