National Security Letters

[Brett85]

During the short Congressional debate over the Patriot Act, there was a Republican Congressman from Wisconsin who said that the "national security letters" were not actually contained in the three provisions of the Patriot Act that Congress is voting on now. Is that correct? If so, were the national security letters already made permanent?

[Brett85]

Bump.

[Brett85]

Bump.

[Brett85]

Bump.

[Zippyjuan]

All this bumping is making me dizzy.

[Matt Collins]

Read the bill for yourself....oh wait a minute, you probably can't. We have to find out what's in it by voting for it first.

[tangent4ronpaul]

During the short Congressional debate over the Patriot Act, there was a Republican Congressman from Wisconsin who said that the "national security letters" were not actually contained in the three provisions of the Patriot Act that Congress is voting on now. Is that correct? If so, were the national security letters already made permanent?

They were made permanent in some bill passed in 2006. Not sure on the name, but look for a bill with a title exactly opposite of what it does that Joe Liberman sponsored, and you will find it.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

This reminds me of when the Dems were in control and raising cain about the Patriot Act because their constituents had been screaming at them so much about it. It was about one of the prior extensions. Dem after Dem got up and bitched about aspects of it they had been bitched at about, and a couple of republicans kept coming back and telling them over and over "that's not in the PA, that's not in the PA.

It's called READ THE DAMN BILLS Congress Critters! :rolleyes: This garbage is spread across so much legislation, especially legislation that has nothing to do with the security of this country, passed in the past 10 years that it isn't even funny.

I've looked and have never found a single source that has kept track of all of them. The best I've ever found listed about 8 bills. This is going to make purging the crap very difficult.

-t

[sailingaway]

yes, they were made permanent. That is why that streamlined process not allowing amendments (which Amash voted for) is important. They can't address this in the House. That is very likely why Rand wants to force ability to introduce amendments in the Senate. However, the lone wolf provisions mean that if someone they SUSPECT might be a terrorist communicates with you, however uncontroversially, they can go after YOUR conversations etc.

[tangent4ronpaul]

From the beggining of 2010:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fly-list-doubled-size-bigger-govt-officials/story?id=10065231

No-Fly List Has Doubled in Size and Will Get Bigger, Say Gov't Officials

U.S. enforcement and intelligence officials said Wednesday that the no-fly list barring passengers with suspected terror ties from boarding planes has already increased in size since the attempted Christmas Day bombing of Northwest Flight 253, and was likely to get much larger.

"It's getting bigger and it will get much bigger," said Russell Travers, deputy director of the National Counterterrorism Center, testifying at a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

After the hearing, government officials confirmed to ABC News an earlier press report that the no-fly list had nearly doubled in size since December 25, from 3,400 names to over 6,000 individuals.

====

I saw a gvmt directory of "terrorist" organizations once. It was the size of a phone directory for a major metropolitan area. In fairness, though, each organization had one to 2 pages to itself and it was worldwide in scope.

-t

[Brett85]

yes, they were made permanent. That is why that streamlined process not allowing amendments (which Amash voted for) is important. They can't address this in the House. That is very likely why Rand wants to force ability to introduce amendments in the Senate. However, the lone wolf provisions mean that if someone they SUSPECT might be a terrorist communicates with you, however uncontroversially, they can go after YOUR conversations etc.

So in order to repeal the national security letters they would have to get a majority in the house to vote to repeal it, 60 Senators, and get President Obama to sign it? I always thought that the national security letters were the most controversial part of the Patriot Act. I don't know why they would've made that permanent and sunsetted the three other provisions.