Boston Globe: Paul supporters boo Cheney and Rumsfeld -- and this is what the LIBERALS are

[sailingaway]

saying.

http://boston.com/community/blogs/less_is_more/2011/02/paul_supporters_boo_cheney_and.html

[Justinjj1]

Good for that heckler, Cheney is a war criminal and needs to be reminded of it every chance he gets.

[driller80545]

RP supporters can be as nice as pie, but they will never get the approval of these grunts. I think everyones got it backwards. What could possibly be more rude and crass than what Cheney and Rumsfeld have done.

[sailingaway]

RP supporters can be as nice as pie, but they will never get the approval of these grunts. I think everyones got it backwards. What could possibly be more rude and crass than what Cheney and Rumsfeld have done.

If you aren't trying to get someone elected great. It is OUR bad behavior that will hurt Ron and Rand.

[specsaregood]

If you aren't trying to get someone elected great. It is OUR bad behavior that will hurt Ron and Rand.

Ah, to hell with it. I wish I would have supported the booing from the effing beginning. These headlines were setup and ready to print, regardless of what happened. It would have been more productive if we had brainstormed on good things to yell/heckle rather than argue over whether to do it or not.

And you know what? The people that hold this against Ron and/or Rand and wouldn't vote for them "because of it" NEVER WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR HIM TO BEGIN WITH.

BRING ON THE HECKLERS! Good job, I was wrong.

[driller80545]

If you aren't trying to get someone elected great. It is OUR bad behavior that will hurt Ron and Rand.

I'm sorry sailingaway, I know you are a totally dedicated RP representative. I always pay close attention to your posts because they are good and make me think. But Cheney and Rumsfeld are torturers, murderers, and power mad traitors who have done terrible damage to this country and the good people in it. I just don't see walking out and refusing to listen to them gloat as rude behavior on our part. Personally, I think they showed admirable restraint. Certainly it must be a show of good principle rather than rude behavior.

[sailingaway]

Ah, to hell with it. I wish I would have supported the booing from the effing beginning. These headlines were setup and ready to print, regardless of what happened. It would have been more productive if we had brainstormed on good things to yell/heckle rather than argue over whether to do it or not.

And you know what? The people that hold this against Ron and/or Rand and wouldn't vote for them "because of it" NEVER WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR HIM TO BEGIN WITH.

BRING ON THE HECKLERS! Good job, I was wrong.

LOL!

Some of the articles piss me off too. But I have seen shocked comments on conservative sites all over the net, and I'm really grieving the opportunity we lost.

Well, Ron is spectacular. Let's see his speech Friday.

[sailingaway]

I'm sorry sailingaway, I know you are a totally dedicated RP representative. I always pay close attention to your posts because they are good and make me think. But Cheney and Rumsfeld are torturers, murderers, and power mad traitors who have done terrible damage to this country and the good people in it. I just don't see walking out and refusing to listen to them gloat as rude behavior on our part. Personally, I think they showed admirable restraint. Certainly it must be a show of good principle rather than rude behavior.

Not to most conservatives who vote in the GOP primary is the point. Rudeness is like something 'unPC' to liberals. Rude people are simply always wrong. The hecklers aren't being measured against what is good or bad about Cheney etc. Ron's supporters' behavior to an invited guest is being weighed against the behavior of supporters of other candidates who are NOT Cheney etc. That is the purpose of the event. And I have begun to think it was no accident that Cheney and Rumsfield were after Rand.

Sigh, clearly it is a culture clash, but I thought we had already learned this lesson.

and don't mistake ME. I think Cheney and Rumsfield deserve it. I just don't want it done in a way that reflects on people we are trying to get elected.

[RonPaulCult]

And the proof that the heckler is a Ron Paul supporter comes from WHERE exactly?

[TheeJoeGlass]

Only in your mind. The only people that get offended by this are the people that supported those people.

[driller80545]

Not to most conservatives who vote in the GOP primary is the point. Rudeness is like something 'unPC' to liberals. Rude people are simply always wrong.

Sigh, clearly it is a culture clash, but I thought we had already learned this lesson.

I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know I know
Dammit

[specsaregood]

LOL!
Some of the articles piss me off too. But I have seen shocked comments on conservative sites all over the net, and I'm really grieving the opportunity we lost.
Well, Ron is spectacular. Let's see his speech Friday.

I'm just saying, let's be realistic. There was absolutely no hope of stopping it from happening, it was too good of a setup. Esp. with the surprise showing of cheney? Where did that guy come from? Last I heard he didnt even have a heart anymore? Is this proof he is a reptilian?!

Trying to prevent it, is like putting time and effort into building an awesome sandcastle. You can build a moat, you can build abreaker wall, a huge castle wall and everything. But no matter what you do, that tide is going come up, the waves are going to come in and that castle is going down. It would have served us much better if we had brainstormed on better ways to get the message across. I particularly like the heckle suggested in another thread: "Deficits don't matter!" Now THAT would have been a good one, that is the real opportunity that was lost, to heckle with a fiscal conservative message.

Ron really does need to give the speech of a lifetime though.

[Original_Intent]

Hmm. From the article:

If libertarians, Paul supporters in particular, want to be accepted and not seen as wackos by so many conservatives they need to weed out their bad apples.

I would love to ask this reporter how he suggests we "weed out" bad apples. Or how we stop opponents supporters from posing as Ron Paul supporters and then misbehaving.

To his credit, at least he included the request from Ron for his supporters to be polite.

[sailingaway]

I'm just saying, let's be realistic. There was absolutely no hope of stopping it from happening, it was too good of a setup. Esp. with the surprise showing of cheney? Where did that guy come from? Last I heard he didnt even have a heart anymore? Is this proof he is a reptilian?!

Trying to prevent it, is like putting time and effort into building an awesome sandcastle. You can build a moat, you can build abreaker wall, a huge castle wall and everything. But no matter what you do, that tide is going come up, the waves are going to come in and that castle is going down. It would have served us much better if we had brainstormed on better ways to get the message across. I particularly like the heckle suggested in another thread: "Deficits don't matter!" Now THAT would have been a good one, that is the real opportunity that was lost, to heckle with a fiscal conservative message.

Ron really does need to give the speech of a lifetime though.

I really do wonder if giving Rumsfield the defender of the Constitution award right after Rand spoke, was intended to do just this. Several papers have wondered what on earth the organizers were thinking. I just feel like we played right into the hands of those who want to marginalize Ron. Well, forward is the only direction to go, at this point....

[ammorris]

This is not helpful. We need to be winning hearts and minds, and this type of behavior makes people less willing to listen to what you have to say. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of rude people, even if they might otherwise be open to our ideas.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm just saying, let's be realistic. There was absolutely no hope of stopping it from happening, it was too good of a setup. Esp. with the surprise showing of cheney? Where did that guy come from? Last I heard he didnt even have a heart anymore? Is this proof he is a reptilian?!

Trying to prevent it, is like putting time and effort into building an awesome sandcastle. You can build a moat, you can build abreaker wall, a huge castle wall and everything. But no matter what you do, that tide is going come up, the waves are going to come in and that castle is going down. It would have served us much better if we had brainstormed on better ways to get the message across. I particularly like the heckle suggested in another thread: "Deficits don't matter!" Now THAT would have been a good one, that is the real opportunity that was lost, to heckle with a fiscal conservative message.

Ron really does need to give the speech of a lifetime though.

+1776

[RM918]

This is not helpful. We need to be winning hearts and minds, and this type of behavior makes people less willing to listen to what you have to say. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of rude people, even if they might otherwise be open to our ideas.

We can't win against that. You can't stop every single person from not being a douchebag. You simply cannot do it. I think it's very telling that although other candidates have plenty of douchebags among their supporters, they are NEVER impugned for it while Ron is. There's a reason for that and it's not because of us.

[Captain Shays]

The only way I know that works just about every time with the neocon supporters is to point out to them that our current foreign policy was always opposed by Republicans and always supported by globalist militarist Democrats who were the party in power during the Indian War, the 1st & 2nd Mexican Wars, half the civil War, the Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Serbia, Somalia, Albania, and Columbia. That the Dems are the original police the world party and the party of the League of Nations and United Nations, the Federal Reserve, the IRS< Socialist Security, and ALL the other unconstitutional federal programs that now have us at $14 TRILLION in national debt and another $68 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities along with the $TRILLIONS we borrow from foreign countries to pay for them.

Believe me. They don't have an answer for it. Just accusing questions like "would you (meaning Ron Paul) get us out of Afghanistan"? Which I immediately reply YES. Then they ask what I think would happen if we left? I just reply that I am not a soothsayer and neither are they or our politicians, NO ONE knows for sure what would happen if we did this or that. If they did,, they would be billionaires betting on sports games. But they can't even tell me what will happen in their own life tomorrow let alone accurately predict what would happen if we left Iraq or Afghanistan.
We do know this. Our involvement there has already proven to increase anti-American sentiment all over the Middle East and is proven to increase the recruitments for terrorist organizations. We know that our Democrat style foreign policy costs us over a $TRILLION per year and that our constant military presence in Europe is helping to subsidize their socialist programs.

Look. When dealing with neo-Republicans, foreign policy and national defense is a BIG issue. If we can tie it in to economics effectively we can turn them around.

If I was able to attend CPAC I was going to prepare for that specific argument rather than yell and scream while one of their neocon larve was speaking.

[Chieppa1]

This is not helpful. We need to be winning hearts and minds, and this type of behavior makes people less willing to listen to what you have to say. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of rude people, even if they might otherwise be open to our ideas.

What HEARTS AND MINDS? Wow, you really think these people can be won over. They support pretty much nuking every Muslim in the world. How do we convince them anti-war is the way to go? "Hearts" and minds....

And what is this about not being rude? Tea Parties? Town Hall Meetings? Looked that these people enjoyed being pretty rude.

[Brian4Liberty]

Did anyone notice the quote in the article?! Straight from RPF! The link goes to the document created by MRockED and Jeremy.


Some Paul supporters were expecting something like this to happen. A guide to CPAC being circulated among his supporters included a warning to not act up during Rumsfeld's speech.

NOTE: Donald Rumsfeld follows Rand Paul. If you don't think you can control yourself, leave right after Rand's speech is done. Remember Dr. Paul has asked us not to cause a disturbance, despite how much we may disagree with a person.

[ammorris]

We can't win against that. You can't stop every single person from not being a douchebag. You simply cannot do it. I think it's very telling that although other candidates have plenty of douchebags among their supporters, they are NEVER impugned for it while Ron is. There's a reason for that and it's not because of us.

I guess I was lucky. I discovered Ron Paul in 2008 when I stumbled across his website, before I had ever met any of his supporters. I was a pretty typical Bush supporter (though I had been too young to vote for him.) I liked Dr. Paul's positions on everything but foreign policy. He was asking the same question that I had asked when I read the Constitution in high school: If the powers of the federal government are supposed to be specifically enumerated in the Constitution, then why is the federal government involved in practically every aspect of our lives? Because I had never heard anyone else ask that question, I decided to support him, laying aside our differences on foreign policy because I agreed with him on almost everything else. Later on, I came around on foreign policy, civil liberties, and the drug war, but it took some time. I had to reexamine my own long-held assumptions in the light of Dr. Paul's sound, rational arguments. It was a difficult and painful process, but I'm glad that I was open to those arguments.

If I had met some Ron Paul supporters first, and if they had behaved as some of our folks behaved at CPAC (and as I have seen so many of our people behave over the last few years), I would never have bothered to listen to Ron Paul's arguments. I would have written him of as a kook, and I would probably be planning to vote for Sarah Palin in 2010. I would still support the wars and the PATRIOT [sic] Act, and I would have thought that anyone who argued against them was a kook or a hippie.

Being rude turns people off. Acting like a child makes people less willing to listen to what you have to say. If you are trying to win a man to your cause, it is not helpful to be disrespectful toward people that he respects (even if those people are scoundrels.)

I was lucky. I had a chance to listen to Ron Paul and make my own judgements about him.

Thank God I discovered Ron Paul before I discovered Ron Paul supporters.

[Gaius1981]

I must admit I'm laughing at the absurdity of it all. It really must have been planned.

1) Fill up the room with all the Ron Paul supporters.

2) Bring in Donald Rumsfeld.

3) Bring in Dick Cheney as a surprise guest.

4) Have Cheney award Rumsfeld with the Defender of the Constitution Award.

The event coordinator must truly have a sick, twisted mind. :D

[Chieppa1]

So, I guess we need to be "rank-in-file" Ron Paul supporters? Kind of weird...

[CableNewsJunkie]

I wish our guys could have remained calm today, but what's done is done.

Nevertheless, I see that many of the neocon followers continue to stubbornly gamble that whoever their mediocre candidate turns out to be, we in the liberty movement will ultimately fall in-line and support said mediocre candidate because..."we gotta beat Obama!" After all, it worked so well for them last election, didn't it? (sarc)

This logic is seriously flawed in my opinion.

Furthermore, they are gambling that we will be there to 'show them the way' again as their mediocre leaders betray them one more time, and they continue to be sold into debt bondage to the international banksters and fewer and fewer liberties are recognized by the State.

I might decide I have better things to do.

At this point in time, the only people I can see myself voting for in the Presidential race are:

Ron Paul (might be able to beat Obama, if neocons could swallow their war pride AND give up going after the "Hollywood" type candidates - which is unlikely to happen)

Gary Johnson (gotta work on name recognition outside of N.M.)

Rand Paul (could easily win, but then the Austrian School would take a beating from the ignorant political hacks as the economy entered the final crack-up boom phase - as predicted by Austrian economists)

Tom Woods (moderate name recognition thanks to his books and Glenn Beck interviews, but would have to endure being called a neo-confederate and a racist by the zombies; however, it would be the most entertaining campaign)

Peter Schiff (moderate name recognition, but lost in CT, there's just something missing in his campaign style)

Jim Puplava (no grassroots movement behind him - this post is probably the first time his name has even been floated for a presidential run - but he probably wouldn't run anyway)

Chris Martenson (same situation as Puplava)

Absent one of these outcomes, I'll probably just sit out the presidential election (or maybe participate just to vote for the local, state, and congressional candidates only - if I'm still in the U.S.)

I vote on principle only now, and I will continue to do so for the remainder of my life.

[silentshout]

What HEARTS AND MINDS? Wow, you really think these people can be won over. They support pretty much nuking every Muslim in the world. How do we convince them anti-war is the way to go? "Hearts" and minds....

And what is this about not being rude? Tea Parties? Town Hall Meetings? Looked that these people enjoyed being pretty rude.


Seriously.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This is not helpful. We need to be winning hearts and minds, and this type of behavior makes people less willing to listen to what you have to say. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of rude people, even if they might otherwise be open to our ideas.

Let me know how many USA USA Cheney blowhards you get to vote for Paul. I won't be holding my breath.

[ammorris]

What HEARTS AND MINDS? Wow, you really think these people can be won over. They support pretty much nuking every Muslim in the world. How do we convince them anti-war is the way to go? "Hearts" and minds....

And what is this about not being rude? Tea Parties? Town Hall Meetings? Looked that these people enjoyed being pretty rude.

Ron Paul won my heart and mind. I supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would have voted for George W. Bush--twice--had I been old enough. People can change their positions, but not if we alienate them until they are no longer willing to listen to us. I understand that a lot of people around here came to libertarianism from the left, and started supporting Ron Paul because he opposed the wars. But an awful lot of us started supporting Ron Paul for other reasons, and came around on foreign policy later. Rank-and-file Republicans--the kind who go to CPAC and read the Drudge Report--are not evil. They are wrong. We need to reach out to them and educate them, not pee in their Wheaties.

[ammorris]

Let me know how many USA USA Cheney blowhards you get to vote for Paul. I won't be holding my breath.

Three years ago, I would have been one of those blowhards. Now I'm going to vote for Paul. Have a nice day.

[keh10]

Did anyone notice the quote in the article?! Straight from RPF! The link goes to the document created by MRockED and Jeremy.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's kind of creepy. They are definitely watching us more closely than we think.


On another note, if you read the comments after the article, they are all pretty positive. I think if anything the liberals are jealous/gracious that we called out the fascists baby killers. I don't blame anyone for their behavior earlier today. I know if I had been there, I would have been booing and screaming at the top of my lungs.

[specsaregood]

I must admit I'm laughing at the absurdity of it all. It really must have been planned.
The event coordinator must truly have a sick, twisted mind. :D

Evidently the "chair" for cpac is this Keene cat that tried to shakedown fedex for $2million a couple years ago.
Kinda fits then doesn't it....
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/17/acu-puts-conservatism-up-for-sale/
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/20/david-keene-responds-to-acu-controversy/

[sailingaway]

Evidently the "chair" for cpac is this Keene cat that tried to shakedown fedex for $2million a couple years ago.
Kinda fits then doesn't it....
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/17/acu-puts-conservatism-up-for-sale/
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/20/david-keene-responds-to-acu-controversy/

Actually, he stepped down the other day for a neocon. Then Cheney was a surprise guest just after Rand. And then they argued against cutting military spending using the sympathy of the crowd, after being booed.

[DirtMcGirt]

The blogger linked to Mrocked guide to CPAC... lol

[libertybrewcity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My9LE7J5gu0

[hugolp]

Someone should go to Cheney and ask him what does he think about liberals defending him, and then distribute it through CPAC people.

[Romulus]

And the proof that the heckler is a Ron Paul supporter comes from WHERE exactly?

No where - its an assumption and the MSM and the forums here are running with it.

[NewRightLibertarian]

If you aren't trying to get someone elected great. It is OUR bad behavior that will hurt Ron and Rand.

People are pissed. Populist anger isn't going to turn off the populous to our movement this time around IMO.

[Chester Copperpot]

Anti-Paul is going to be the result no matter what the action I think.. If everybody sat there nicely and clapped for Dick Cheney the headline would have said "Paul supports endorse Cheney.. Ron Pauls campaign loses steam"

or some other nonsense like this...

[NewRightLibertarian]

Anti-Paul is going to be the result no matter what the action I think.. If everybody sat there nicely and clapped for Dick Cheney the headline would have said "Paul supports endorse Cheney.. Ron Pauls campaign loses steam"

or some other nonsense like this...

Let it be known that we were vocally opposed to these 'humans' receiving honors during this critical period in history. Who cares what these soon to be dead newspapers have to say about it? These dinosaur institutions are only writing for their self-preservation these days, and they know their days are numbered.

[angelatc]

LOL!

Some of the articles piss me off too. But I have seen shocked comments on conservative sites all over the net, and I'm really grieving the opportunity we lost.

Well, Ron is spectacular. Let's see his speech Friday.

Rand Paul made an amazing speech, but most of the press is about the behavior of the Ron Paul supporters. Its hard to imagine the adrenaline there, but if these actions continue, they're going to destroy the campaign before it even begins. What a shame.

[angelatc]

Hmm. From the article:


I would love to ask this reporter how he suggests we "weed out" bad apples. Or how we stop opponents supporters from posing as Ron Paul supporters and then misbehaving.

To his credit, at least he included the request from Ron for his supporters to be polite.

He could take the Ghandi approach. Maybe not fasting, but telling them he won't run if the movement hasn't matured past the point of heckling speakers and trotting out 9/11 signs.

[CableNewsJunkie]

He could take the Ghandi approach. Maybe not fasting, but telling them he won't run if the movement hasn't matured past the point of heckling speakers and trotting out 9/11 signs.

I'll support him if he runs, but the bulk of our money should be going to local, state, and congressional candidates anyway.

The nullification movement is our next best hope if the executive and judicial branches fall.

[Tal]

Im not sure its all that helpful to boo Rumsfeld and Cheney but I have to admit that it gives me great pleasure to watch those 2 crooks squirm up there on the podium when they are called out for being what they truely are.

I dont think its a big deal anyway, Neo-conservatism is on the decline and the more libertarians distance themselves from that sinking ship the better.

[specsaregood]

He could take the Ghandi approach. Maybe not fasting, but telling them he won't run if the movement hasn't matured past the point of heckling speakers and trotting out 9/11 signs.

This is the first reference to 9/11 signs I have seen. Perhaps we have learned a bit then, eh?