Urgent & Important: Tahrir Square is hungry for a libertarian education!

[ibaghdadi]

RPF, it's our time to shine.

Two weeks ago, I had a mere 40-something followers on Twitter. Now I've just passed 640, many of them Egyptians from Tahrir Square, and many of them influential within the youth movement there.

These guys have passed on from the first act of rebellion, from embracing freedom and shaking off the shackles of fear, to thinking what's next. They are asking questions and they're open for answers.

Being young, they're not dogmatic or doctrinaire and are willing to listen and learn.

Just earlier today I had a discussion with them about their demands for a "minimum wage law" in Egypt. I immediately found out what they wanted is prosperity for Egypt's poor.

It took just a couple tweets to convince them that minimum wage laws are counterproductive and that a solid sound currency is step one on the way to prosperity.

I appreciated how eager they were to listen and how smoothly they accepted my rationale. I also like how they know they don't want to be "like the USA" but are also rejecting a theocracy.

RPF, there's a big opportunity here. Millions down at Tahrir and other parts of Egypt, all young and online, are open to an education on libertarianism. Who's with me?

[hugolp]

Whats the plan?

[Sola_Fide]

Whats the plan?

Road trip! :collins:

[CableNewsJunkie]

I think Ernie Hancock with Freedoms Phoenix has sent a package of r3VOLution banners/flyers/etc to Egypt.
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/083271-2011-02-04-we-know-the-truth-the-loveolution-goes-to-egypt.htm
Imagine the immediate RUSH OF ADRENALINE we would all get if one of those banners popped up on international TV news networks.


Aside from that, who are some prominent modernist Arab/Muslims that espouse libertarian values?

That's probably the best route to take initially.

Longer-term goals can be to translate the Austrian economists' books into Arabic - if they haven't been already.

MAKE SURE they understand the difference between CORPORATISM and FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

[ibaghdadi]

Aside from that, who are some prominent modernist Arab/Muslims that espouse libertarian values?
There aren't any, which is why the region has been in the shape it's in for so long. This revolution is rejecting an entire generation and its values and ideologies. It's producing new leaders, new thinkers, and new public intellectuals. We'll have to build this from the ground up, and it'll be more accepted and credible this way.

That said, you can check this guy out (http://bit.ly/idvChE). He's unknown in the Arab/Muslim world, but his work is groundbreaking.


Whats the plan?
I'll have to do the translation to Arabic. I'm an Islamic Libertarian, which could help, because I did the unusual task of reading the Qur'an and looking for rights rather than rules. Whatever libertarian (or Austrian economics) positions there are, I can point to their unmistakable support/proof in Islam.

Where do we start? Fundamental rights? Natural law/rights? These guys are hungry for anything. It inspires me to know that many of them are libertarians without even knowing it.

[pcosmar]

I had made a couple posts on a discussion page. I don't use Twitter or have an account but have followed a few folks and links.
I am not sure how advice coming from an unknown American farmer would be taken.
They very rightfully have a distrust of American posters.

I wish I could sit down in Tahrir with them.

[Seraphim]

Ironically when you get into an honest conversation about people's values and what they view as moral and logical...Libertarian princicples are basically always very high on their list of values- like you said, most just don't know it. People are so swayed by emotional rhetoric by world leaders they end up mistaking said rhetoric as congruent with their VALUES. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. We need to open the door to understanding what they believe is diametrically opposed to what they are voting in.


There aren't any, which is why the region has been in the shape it's in for so long. This revolution is rejecting an entire generation and its values and ideologies. It's producing new leaders, new thinkers, and new public intellectuals. We'll have to build this from the ground up, and it'll be more accepted and credible this way.

That said, you can check this guy out (http://bit.ly/idvChE). He's unknown in the Arab/Muslim world, but his work is groundbreaking.


I'll have to do the translation to Arabic. I'm an Islamic Libertarian, which could help, because I did the unusual task of reading the Qur'an and looking for rights rather than rules. Whatever libertarian (or Austrian economics) positions there are, I can point to their unmistakable support/proof in Islam.

Where do we start? Fundamental rights? Natural law/rights? These guys are hungry for anything. It inspires me to know that many of them are libertarians without even knowing it.

[Acala]

Start writing simple pamphlets that present the principles of liberty with sound argument and scriptural support. Make sure to draw contrasts with what falsely passes for free markets in the West.

One important, but sensitive, issue that will need to be addressed is how keeping religion out of government is the only way that people of different religions can live in peace.

I would be happy to help edit in English and will also contribute money to have them printed and shipped. You could start a chip in.

[FrankRep]

Just earlier today I had a discussion with them about their demands for a "minimum wage law" in Egypt. I immediately found out what they wanted is prosperity for Egypt's poor.

I wonder how many other Socialist ideas they are demanding?

ibaghdadi, it's cool that you're reaching out to them and showing them a better way.

[Pericles]

Where do we start? Fundamental rights? Natural law/rights? These guys are hungry for anything. It inspires me to know that many of them are libertarians without even knowing it.

This is a good place to start - the concept that each individual has rights that can not be violated by any form of government, either secular or theocratic, and that as individuals, we must respect those rights that belong to others, as they must respect ours. This is the foundation of a just and moral society, which will lead to liberty and prosperity.

From these rights logically follow political and religious freedom, and the respect of person and property.

[Acala]

Another foundational concept is equality. All human beings are equal, politically. What that means is that nobody has the superior authority to use force to tell you what to do with your mind, body, life, property, or any other consenting person. Government is not composed of higher beings. Banks are not composed of higher beings. Corporations are not composed of higher beings. The police are not composed of higher beings. All human beings must live by the same rules, each being sovereign over his on life and not over anyone else's. Nobody can be required to slave for anyone else. There are no masters, only individuals.

The result is a free market and government BY CONSENT ONLY!

[amy31416]

bump

[Travlyr]

Focus on confiscating state owned property and using honest sound money. Then divvying that property up among as many people as possible without paying taxes or bankers for it. When people own sovereign title to property they can find security and produce prosperity.

[Jack Bauer]

I wish!

Its mostly going to be a military coup.

[Fredom101]

In this case it's actually easier to take the ancap position. "Starting over" government-wise for them just means another group of thugs coming in and taking over the golden gun of government. Freedom will only be attained if they can truly understand what government is- a noose wrapped around their throat. Loosening that loose gives some short-term comfort but the pain will be felt soon enough if they don't reject the very idea of government.

[Acala]

In this case it's actually easier to take the ancap position. "Starting over" government-wise for them just means another group of thugs coming in and taking over the golden gun of government. Freedom will only be attained if they can truly understand what government is- a noose wrapped around their throat. Loosening that loose gives some short-term comfort but the pain will be felt soon enough if they don't reject the very idea of government.

Or at least the idea that government needs to be heavily restrained, its power strictly limited, decentralized, divided, and checked, with a clear statement of individual freedoms (not entitlements) that shall not be infringed.

It doesn't take much to show people that centralized government power always ends up being corrupted for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many. And the only wat to stop that from happening is to deny government the power to take from one and give to another.

[pcosmar]

I wish!

Its mostly going to be a military coup.


AJA: Ahmad Ali Shouman, Major(?) in Army, turns in weapon, joins protesters in #Tahrir. Asks Tantawy to leave. #Jan25 #Egypt

That is not a sure thing either.


@ghonim Guys, dont do much speculations for now. Just wait and see #Jan25

[robert68]

International Society for Individual Liberty (http://www.isil.org/)

“The world’s premier freedom networking organization”

[Travlyr]

In this case it's actually easier to take the ancap position. "Starting over" government-wise for them just means another group of thugs coming in and taking over the golden gun of government. Freedom will only be attained if they can truly understand what government is- a noose wrapped around their throat. Loosening that loose gives some short-term comfort but the pain will be felt soon enough if they don't reject the very idea of government.
I see that your heart is in the right place, but one step at a time. Exactly how does a nonviolent person take power away from an aggressive person who owns a printing press and a machine gun?

[fisharmor]

Where do we start? Fundamental rights? Natural law/rights? These guys are hungry for anything. It inspires me to know that many of them are libertarians without even knowing it.

Everyone is libertarian when it comes to what they want to do. The problem is when it comes to what someone else wants to do, which you don't particularly like.
Natural rights are axiomatic.
Every culture on earth understands property. So I would start with there.

The biggest shame of this is that they organized these protests without the state, organized hospital care without the state, organized food getting to protesters without the state, and the question on everybody's mind is still "what state are we going to replace this with?"
The answer is bloody obvious.

[pcosmar]

I see that your heart is in the right place, but one step at a time. Exactly how does a nonviolent person take power away from an aggressive person who owns a printing press and a machine gun?

And on top of that. How do peaceful individuals deal with hostile neighbors and present themselves to the governments of the world?

There are some very bright minds in Tahrir Square. I am hopeful.

[Travlyr]

And on top of that. How do peaceful individuals deal with hostile neighbors and present themselves to the governments of the world?

There are some very bright minds in Tahrir Square. I am hopeful.

Shouldn't mankind have figured that out about 5000 years ago? I too am hopeful because the Internet is shining some truth on the world.

[ravedown]

ha, the irony. everyone here is suddenly interested in jumping into Egypts business...personally i'd rather not intervene. good luck with your cause, sounds like you're already on the right track.

[fisharmor]

And on top of that. How do peaceful individuals deal with hostile neighbors and present themselves to the governments of the world

This is the reason I'm not 100% ancap - anarchy is peaceful, and that never sits well with neighboring states.

[Acala]

ha, the irony. everyone here is suddenly interested in jumping into Egypts business...personally i'd rather not intervene. good luck with your cause, sounds like you're already on the right track.

The Ron Paul movement commands perhaps the deepest, most highly refined, most carefully analyzed, most completely understood, and most well-articulated repository of libertarian thought the world has ever known. Why do you find it ironic that Ron Paul supporters would want to share that knowledge to help others find freedom?

[dannno]

ha, the irony. everyone here is suddenly interested in jumping into Egypts business...personally i'd rather not intervene. good luck with your cause, sounds like you're already on the right track.

Uhh, we are not using coercion and we are not advocating coercion.. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Should we wait for the communist groups to drop leaflets everywhere with propaganda about minimum wage laws and socialism? Should we wait for the hard-line Muslim groups to intimidate everyone into accepting them to avoid western influence? What exactly is the problem with helping other people? This isn't a military intervention.

[ravedown]

would want to share that knowledge to help others find freedom?
im sure there were many other well intentioned concepts and philosophies throughout history
(political, religious etc.) that a culture on one side of the globe thought would undoubtedly benefit another far away. its a subjective perspective ...history repeating itself. pointing someone in the right direction is one thing i.e., referencing literature and websites...but mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement? hmmmmm.

[dannno]

im sure there were many other well intentioned concepts and philosophies throughout history
(political, religious etc.) that a culture on one side of the globe thought would undoubtedly benefit another far away. its a subjective perspective ...history repeating itself. pointing someone in the right direction is one thing i.e., referencing literature and websites...but mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement? hmmmmm.

There is NOTHING wrong with people voluntarily mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement.

The PROBLEM is when, for example, George Bush allocated hundreds of millions of dollars of OUR tax money in 2007 to finance the failed Iranian Revolution in 2008.

Do you see the difference? Because it is massive.

[fisharmor]

im sure there were many other well intentioned concepts and philosophies throughout history
(political, religious etc.) that a culture on one side of the globe thought would undoubtedly benefit another far away. its a subjective perspective ...history repeating itself. pointing someone in the right direction is one thing i.e., referencing literature and websites...but mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement? hmmmmm.

hmmmmm-what?
It's ok to do it here, but not over there?
It's ok to do it for statist, public-school brainwashed, corn-fed morons who are actually pretty happy with their cage, but not for people who are getting clubbed in the head with rocks for a single chance of effecting real change?

If there's an organized effort to do this, I won't only participate, I'd think about moving there.

[ravedown]

Uhh, we are not using coercion and we are not advocating coercion.. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Should we wait for the communist groups to drop leaflets everywhere with propaganda about minimum wage laws and socialism? Should we wait for the hard-line Muslim groups to intimidate everyone into accepting them to avoid western influence? What exactly is the problem with helping other people? This isn't a military intervention.
wow- are these people in Egypt cattle? wtf? like the original poster said- these are young, educated, web-savvy people who aren't necessarily going to join up with the first person to show up with a clip board and Che Guevara t-shirt. give them a little credit already, look what they've accomplished in less than a month, are they going to throw it away for a even more fascistic/repressive lifestyle?

[Pericles]

im sure there were many other well intentioned concepts and philosophies throughout history
(political, religious etc.) that a culture on one side of the globe thought would undoubtedly benefit another far away. its a subjective perspective ...history repeating itself. pointing someone in the right direction is one thing i.e., referencing literature and websites...but mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement? hmmmmm.

It is one of the things much of the rest of the world sees about us. For almost a generation (1990 to 2015) the only limits on the power of the US are self imposed limits. If we are not aware of this, the rest of the world is. The price of oil is in dollars because the rest of the world knows that is we want to, we can take it. That time is coming to an end. As Henry Kissinger (when he is right, he is right) summed it up. It is dangerous for you to be an enemy of the United States, but to be a friend of the UNited Staes is fatal. Some of what is frequently here termed "blowbacK" is the resentment of the way things have been. Being circumspect in our dealings with other countries is a wise policy, but is no guarantee of success.

[dannno]

wow- are these people in Egypt cattle? wtf? like the original poster said- these are young, educated, web-savvy people who aren't necessarily going to join up with the first person to show up with a clip board and Che Guevara t-shirt. give them a little credit already, look what they've accomplished in less than a month, are they going to throw it away for a even more fascistic/repressive lifestyle?

Comparing educating people about liberty to thinking they are cattle is probably one of the most oxymoronic statements I've heard in my entire life. You're really not being very convincing here at all.

[pcosmar]

wow- are these people in Egypt cattle? wtf? like the original poster said- these are young, educated, web-savvy people who aren't necessarily going to join up with the first person to show up with a clip board and Che Guevara t-shirt. give them a little credit already, look what they've accomplished in less than a month, are they going to throw it away for a even more fascistic/repressive lifestyle?

They are part of the collective consciousness of the web. Engage them, discuss, share.
I have as I have been able. May have to spend more time at it.
Introduce yourselves and share freely.

[dannno]

Didn't France help us with our Revolution? Didn't Jefferson go to France and pick up a bunch of pro-liberty ideas? There is nothing wrong with sharing liberty across nations, in fact, if true liberty is to be obtained I would think it necessary.

[down-under]

Some thoughts...

The libertarian message has to be adapted on the context of each country. I don't live myself on the US so I understand that in many countries the libertarian message is alien or downright extreme. Arab countries have tended to gravitate towards "arab socialism" which has translated into rampant corruption and poor economic performance.

When there is such a large part of the population living so precariously, socialism can be a very seductive idea.

I think the way forward to educate people is not being dogmatic and confrontational. The best is to put forward ideas on a candid manner. Many will listen. The ideas presented by the classical liberal thinkers such as Lock, Stuart Mill could be an important framework.


It is all about personal empowerment. It is important to link larger levels of personal and economic freedom with more personal advancement opportunities. Be critical of cronysm. The youth should also be giving good education opportunities (even if the state has to fork out). Countries like Egypt seem also to have problems with excesive buracracy that make the live of many such as the self-employed hard (The tunitian young street vendor that sparked the revolution fits this view).


It would also important to link socialist ideas with giving more power to the politicians (which Egyptians distrust) and the current regime.

It might also be worth to compare and contrast with Turkey, a Muslim country with greater levels of democracy and sound economic performance.

[robert68]

This is the reason I'm not 100% ancap - anarchy is peaceful, and that never sits well with neighboring states.

Anarcho-capitalism doesn’t prohibit the defense of life and property.

[ravedown]

Comparing educating people about liberty to thinking they are cattle is probably one of the most oxymoronic statements I've heard in my entire life. You're really not being very convincing here at all.
ha- nice try- i was referencing your point in the quote. that's why i posted your quote.

[ravedown]

Didn't France help us with our Revolution? Didn't Jefferson go to France and pick up a bunch of pro-liberty ideas? There is nothing wrong with sharing liberty across nations, in fact, if true liberty is to be obtained I would think it necessary.

again...nothing wrong with sharing, but its slippery slope, thats all im saying... and c'mon, france didnt get involved in the revolution for the benevolent cause of liberty...ha. lets keep it real.

[Annihilia]

I agree that spoon feeding them conclusions is a bad idea. Telling them to draft a constitution with a bill of rights and all of that will bring them right back to where they started.

But exposing them to libertarian principles will let them decide how to move forward organically.. maybe in ways we have yet to imagine.

Having said that, I do think there is one conclusion that will benefit them, which is of course that any government they choose to set up will derive its authority from a monopoly of violent force. Even if you are aware of NAP, it might take a bit of time before you piece that one together. I think with all of the recent violence, a government will sound very off-putting after that realization.

[fisharmor]

Anarcho-capitalism doesn’t prohibit the defense of life and property.

I fully realize that. Castle doctrine can cram it with walnuts, and CCW laws do nothing for me other than keep me out of trouble with the overlords. I don't arm myself because the state says I can.
In an anarchy, people would arm themselves - enough would do it that society would be stable.
My problem is that in every case where anarchy has been tried, it has been peaceful and non-militaristic.
This sets the stage for any old aggressive regime to come in and take over.

Ancap is a bad idea in Egypt. It's not a bad idea for any of the reasons people usually attack ancap.
It's a bad idea because it was the breadbasket of the world for millennia, and has one of the most important trade routes in the world within its borders - and there is currently not anywhere close to the level of wealth necessary for ancap to provide for its defense.
Now that we're broke and increasingly toothless, It would be a matter of weeks before someone else moved in and started to cash in on the canal.

[CableNewsJunkie]

ha, the irony. everyone here is suddenly interested in jumping into Egypts business...personally i'd rather not intervene. good luck with your cause, sounds like you're already on the right track.

Our input was requested, and we're responding AS unique individuals with our own unique opinions TO other individuals - NOT as a monolithic government response on behalf of a whole nation dictating to another nation.

[BuddyRey]

I've been trying to pass on as many relevant libertarian videos and/or articles to folks in Egypt via Twitter for the last few days, but I don't know if it's accomplishing anything. Truth be told, I've been on Twitter for more than a year and still have no idea how it works to deliver news to people when only your subscribers can see what you post.

Would Egypt or Egypt-related message boards be more fertile grounds?

[Fredom101]

I see that your heart is in the right place, but one step at a time. Exactly how does a nonviolent person take power away from an aggressive person who owns a printing press and a machine gun?

It starts with education. That's what we were discussing here. I'm not suggesting that people violently kick the government out and impose anarcho-capitalism. It's a process, and the starting point is teaching libertarianism and the evils of allowing centralized planning in any regard.

[jmdrake]

Muslims kinda sorta believe the Bible right? Turn their attention to Genesis 47:13-26 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2047:13-36&version=NIV). Everybody is familiar with the story of Joseph and how he saved Egypt and Canaan from famine by interpreting pharaoh's dreams. But not everybody if familiar with the dark side of the story. In Genesis 41:33-40 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2041:33-40&version=NIV) Joseph devised a plan where pharaoh would have 1/5th of all of the harvest taken and stored up. (The first temporary income tax). But in chapter 47 the people had to buy back the grain that the government had taken from them. When they ran out of gold they sold their cattle to pharaoh (giving up the means to production). When they ran out of food again, they came back to Joseph and offered him their bodies and land in exchange for food. Joseph instituted a permanent income tax now. The priests of Egypt were exempt because they were already supported by pharaoh. (Sound familiar yet?) Genesis 47 described this as being virtual servitude. Of course it was pharaoh that ended up owning everything, not Joseph. But Joseph and his family were exempted from the tax. In the very next book of the Bible, pharaoh turned all of Israel against the descendants of Joseph and his brothers. While the Bible isn't clear, it seems obvious that the new pharaoh scapegoated Joseph for the condition the people were in, without taking any responsibility for what his (the pharaoh's) ancestor had done.

The moral of all of this? When you let the government take care of you, rather than making provision for yourself, you end up a virtual slave.

And if that doesn't work, show them videos of Greece and France in turmoil and ask them if socialism is so great than why didn't it work in those countries?

[ibaghdadi]

I wonder how many other Socialist ideas they are demanding?
Quite a few. But as I said, they're not ideologues - they are picking out these ideas because they think that's how you improve the lot of the poor.

Just check this out - there was a proposal for "free education" and I just pointed out that educated Egyptians have a higher unemployment rate than illitrate Egyptians, proving that education without economic freedom backfires. They immediately accepted my point but don't know where to go next with the conclusion.


In this case it's actually easier to take the ancap position.
I was thinking the same - especially that the people cleaned their streets better than the government (Tahrir Square has never been cleaner) and they even took care of their security better than the government (neighborhood watches & local militias). It's something to capitalize on, but it's highly unlikely that they'll go all the way to ancap. As someone said, they're shaking off the shackles of one state and then thinking what the next state will be like.


The Ron Paul movement commands perhaps the deepest, most highly refined, most carefully analyzed, most completely understood, and most well-articulated repository of libertarian thought the world has ever known. Why do you find it ironic that Ron Paul supporters would want to share that knowledge to help others find freedom?
+1 for that. Your feedback has been excellent, but I think you're starting from sub-zero. Many of these points are already strongly held convictions that were even the spark of the revolution itself.


Arab countries have tended to gravitate towards "arab socialism" which has translated into rampant corruption and poor economic performance.
The current Egyptian regime (1952-2011) can be thought of as the last expression of "Arab socialism". I'm not worried about socialism - it's a defeated idea in the Arab world. The most notorious Arab dictators were socialists, and they messed the place up for 60 years now.

But just to make it clear: many Muslims look at the USA (corporatism, crony capitalism, mercantilism, even borderline fascism) and think that this is what capitalism looks like (unfortunately the USA still calls itself capitalist). They know they want something else, but don't know what exactly it is.

When you hear a Muslim rant about capitalism, take it in that context. He's talking about US government style capitalism, not Adam Smith capitalism.


It might also be worth to compare and contrast with Turkey, a Muslim country with greater levels of democracy and sound economic performance.
This link is already being made, and many are calling for it, especially when they say "We are Muslims and proud of it, but don't want a theocracy". But many are also pointing to the fact that in Turkey the military has been a frequent player in politics, removing governments more than once.


I've been trying to pass on as many relevant libertarian videos and/or articles to folks in Egypt via Twitter for the last few days, but I don't know if it's accomplishing anything ... Would Egypt or Egypt-related message boards be more fertile grounds?
Twitter is currently very popular in Egypt; so is Facebook. I think videos would be the way to go, more than pamphlets. That kind of face-to-face candid discussion format is important, a pamphlet doesn't have a face and doesn't answer questions. Besides, this is a Facebook revolution and a Twitter generation led by a Google executive, and pamphlets are so 1960s.


Everybody is familiar with the story of Joseph and how he saved Egypt and Canaan from famine by interpreting pharaoh's dreams...
Very interesting link-up. But just keep in mind - Muslims have their own take on the story of Joseph (an entire chapter of the Qur'an (http://bit.ly/dNrner) is dedicated to it).

My conclusion, I think I'm going to go the way of vlogs. They've been used very effectively by the Egyptians so far, and I think the vlog format would be easier to absorb and share (and discuss) than a written format.

I'll need you guys to help me with resources and ideas, as usual.

I'll try to get started. Things on the ground (in Egypt) are still hot, and big events are distracting people's attention regularly. I'm also getting a lot of media contact requests after posting that Asmaa Mahfouz video.

Keep 'em coming guys.

[Sentient Void]

I would move to Egypt and learn arabic in a heartbeat if they adopted even a minarchist-style 'libertarian government.

I really hope they minimize government power once they throw the dictator out. They've done so well so far. I also hope they realize that there are many of us Americans rooting for them and we fight against and disagree with our government *significantly*.

[pcosmar]

Keep 'em coming guys.

This is a great video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMYicq_SN1E

Might be quite a project for translation.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Why not show them the Philosophy of Liberty video? It is short, concise, and to the point.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

[mczerone]

I see that your heart is in the right place, but one step at a time. Exactly how does a nonviolent person take power away from an aggressive person who owns a printing press and a machine gun?

By making his own printing press, insisting that the other not shoot. The power is not in the possessions, the power is the restrictions they place on your liberty. The people in Liberation Square are proving that at least one leader does not have the balls to shoot at people demanding their power back.


im sure there were many other well intentioned concepts and philosophies throughout history
(political, religious etc.) that a culture on one side of the globe thought would undoubtedly benefit another far away. its a subjective perspective ...history repeating itself. pointing someone in the right direction is one thing i.e., referencing literature and websites...but mailing pamphlets and financing a grassroots movement? hmmmmm.

But the idea we're spreading is that they should decide themselves what order their society, individually. It took a mass of people to get Mubarak to concede, but the mass should continue their peaceful tradition and not force anyone into a social contract that they do not accept.


Ancap is a bad idea in Egypt. It's not a bad idea for any of the reasons people usually attack ancap.
It's a bad idea because it was the breadbasket of the world for millennia, and has one of the most important trade routes in the world within its borders - and there is currently not anywhere close to the level of wealth necessary for ancap to provide for its defense.
Now that we're broke and increasingly toothless, It would be a matter of weeks before someone else moved in and started to cash in on the canal.

Who should own it? I think the message should be: decide without the use of force, turn to a mutually agreeable arbitrator to settle disputes. If the U.S. or some other aggressive govt comes knocking on the door after that, it is up to the owners to either negotiate a sale or mount a defense by spending up to the amount they value keeping the canal. If you value the canal being owned by some group or other, volunteer your support, monetary or otherwise.

[justinc.1089]

The book, The Road to Serfdom, by Friedrich Hayek was read by some young, youthful revolutionaries in some country when they were trying to figure out how to bring prosperity back to their country, and it helped quite a bit. They followed its advice, to keep government small, and the country went from very poor to very wealthy quickly.

There's a book list on here for learning about liberty, prosperity, and other things if that would be of use to you. I don't know if there would be a way to get books to them, and in their language as well though.

This is an awesome, inspiring opportunity. If anyone has means to communicate with Egyptians, you should do so, and help to foster a libertarian revolution throughout Egypt.

I think we all know how badly the world needs more places with freedom. This is a rare opportunity the Egyptian people have, and it will be sad if they can't learn how to become more prosperous and free.

[raiha]

Also Hazlitt...
I'm twittering away with Egyptians too. Haven't quite got the hang of it yet but find it intriguing. Might have to wait until Farewell Friday is over before too much libertarian twittery though. My heart is in my mouth. On AJ, someone said it is the third biggest revolution in human history. That narcissitic old bastard is setting traps for them.
Just heard the army backing Suleiman...now what?

[ibaghdadi]

bump

[Gaius1981]

Ibaghdadi, these links might be of interest to you. Tom Palmer is a libertarian activist and educator that seems to be very active in the Arabian libertarian movement. He's put up a libertarian website in Arabic, and runs an interesting blog. He's particularly interested in tapping into the libertarian heritage of individual cultures, instead of imposing American libertarian culture on them.

Minbaralhurriyya (http://www.minbaralhurriyya.org/)

Blog (http://tomgpalmer.com/)

Here's some of his other global libertarian initiatives (http://atlasnetwork.org/blog/2010/08/global-initiative/).

[Chieppa1]

Hey, if anyone has Twitter @SandMonkey is one of the bloggers/activists that was arrested during the protests. I am following him, and right now he is having kind of a "moment" where he is talking about what type of government would work. Many of the people I am following are. How do we have religious freedom? Do we tax the highest tax bracket? How do we give the Islamic radicals rights without them taking ours?

It seems like a great time to jump in and give them our input. Nice and informatively. I'm doing my part.

[Sentient Void]

Also Hazlitt...
I'm twittering away with Egyptians too. Haven't quite got the hang of it yet but find it intriguing. Might have to wait until Farewell Friday is over before too much libertarian twittery though. My heart is in my mouth. On AJ, someone said it is the third biggest revolution in human history. That narcissitic old bastard is setting traps for them.
Just heard the army backing Suleiman...now what?

I completely agree. Henry Hazlitt's 'Economics in One Lesson' is a book that was instrumental in converting me over to libertarianism. This book laid the foundation for strong utilitarian/consequential grounds to advocate libertarianism/maximization of the free market/minimization of govt intervention - even though I ended up more of a deontological libertarian.

It's a very easy, quick, and enjoyable read, and is a great way to get people to understand the basic fundamentals of why the free market should be maximized to maximize human prosperity, standard of living and wealth creation across all classes - on austrian / deductive grounds with common sense explanations. It gets people set up and interested in looking further/deeper into libertarianism, the free market, and austrian economics on their own.

Again - I *highly* recommend it. You don't even have to mention 'libertarianism' or 'the free market' (as a matter of fact, I'd recommend avoiding mentioning those things) - just tell them how unbelievably important it is to understand how certain policies will affect incentives, people in general and market activity, and that it's by far the best place to get a foundational understanding of such things.

here's a link to the actual book (only 7 bucks, can find it even cheaper elsewhere if you shop around):
http://www.amazon.com/Economics-One-Lesson-Shortest-Understand/dp/0517548232

And here's a free PDF version if people want instant access and don't mind reading it on their computers:
http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/Economics_in_one_lesson.pdf

[Sentient Void]

The book, The Road to Serfdom, by Friedrich Hayek was read by some young, youthful revolutionaries in some country when they were trying to figure out how to bring prosperity back to their country, and it helped quite a bit. They followed its advice, to keep government small, and the country went from very poor to very wealthy quickly.

I believe the country was Estonia.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Only free people can choose to _____________.
(insert preference, ie. help the poor, etc.)