Egypt - Friday thread

[tangent4ronpaul]

Largest gathering of ppl to date - Thousands of people.

There has been automatic weapons fire.

21 journalists attacked so far. One died.

Camera's in hotel rooms overlooking the square have been banned.

State Department is telling Americans "Get out today or you are on your own".

This isn't sounding good.

Post updates as you hear them.

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/02/thousands-gather-in-cairo-for-day-of-departure-demanding-mubaraks-ouster/1

Update at 6:10 a.m. ET: Hundreds of thousands of protesters are jamming Tahrir Square in central Cairo waving Egyptian flags and shouting: "We won't leave. He must leave!"

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/on-deadline/2011/02/04/Cairox-wide-community.jpg

[BamaAla]

The sheer size of that crowd is crazy. What do you think is going to happen; will Mubarak leave over the weekend?

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04kristof.html
(snips)

I asked him as politely as I could what a double-amputee in a wheelchair was doing in a pitched battle involving Molotov cocktails, clubs, machetes, bricks and straight razors.

“I still have my hands,” he said firmly. “God willing, I will keep fighting.”

I encountered a line of Mr. Mubarak’s goons carrying wooden clubs with nails embedded in them.

At Tahrir Square’s field hospital (a mosque in normal times), 150 doctors have volunteered their services, despite the risk to themselves. Maged, a 64-year-old doctor who relies upon a cane to walk, told me that he hadn’t been previously involved in the protests, but that when he heard about the government’s assault on peaceful pro-democracy protesters, something snapped.

So early Thursday morning, he prepared a will and then drove 125 miles to Tahrir Square to volunteer to treat the injured. “I don’t care if I don’t go back,” he told me. “I decided I had to be part of this.”

“If I die,” he added, “this is for my country.”

There’s a small jail in Tahrir Square for pro-Mubarak thugs who are captured, and their I.D. cards indicate that many are working for the police or the ruling party. Mr. Mubarak may claim that he’s unhappy about the violence in Cairo, but he caused it — and the only way to restore order in Egypt and revive the economy is for him to step down immediately.

Countless Egyptians here tell me that they are willing to sacrifice their lives for democracy. They mean it. But I’ve heard similar talk in many other countries in the throes of democracy movements. Unfortunately, usually what determines the fate of such movements is not the courage of the democracy activists but the willingness of the government to massacre its citizens. In that case, the survivors usually retreat in sullen silence, and the movement is finished for a time.

====

This quote should worry you...

"Egypt doesn't have control of its people the way we do here." -VP Joe Biden, Jan 31, 2011 on MSNBC.

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://blogs.wsj.com/dispatch/2011/02/04/friday-preparing-for-a-showdown/

They formed tight cordons around key intersections and set up checkpoints with concrete barriers and razor wire on major roads leading to the northern end of the square, where pro-regime demonstrators had massed midweek. At one intersection near the southern end of the square, soldiers had set up sand bags and spike strips.

Egyptian Defense Minister Hussein Tantawi and other senior army officers visited the square for the first time, state television reported, as anti-regime protesters streamed in for an 11th day of protest. Counter protesters, who fought pitched battles with the opposition over the previous two days, weren’t in evidence Friday morning.

====

Sounds like it might be a peaceful day...

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/04/egypt-crisis-troops-in-riot-gear-approach-tahrir-square-early-friday/

[Update 1:44 p.m. in Cairo, 6:44 a.m. ET] The U.S. State Department says it has no evacuation flights from Egypt planned for Friday.

[Update 12:49 p.m. Friday in Cairo, 5:49 a.m. Friday ET] More protesters gathered Friday at a mosque in central Alexandria, Egypt's second-largest city. Writings on the walls leading to the mosque include "Pharaoh's last day," "leave us alone old man" and "game over."

Pro-Mubarak groups were notably absent from Tahrir Square, where they clashed with anti-government protesters earlier this week.

Pro-government supporters are gathering at a mosque in Cairo for a "day of loyalty." Anti-government demonstrators are calling Friday for a "day of departure" and "day of farewell."

====

Egypt crisis: Eight dead, 896 injured so far in Cairo violence

[tangent4ronpaul]

Over one Million protesters in the street now.

AJ Egypt office trashed - equipment destroyed

Other news organizations equipment has been confiscated. Journalists are hiding in a basement.

Today is the protesters deadline for Mubarak to step down. Mubarak has said he won't step down today.

[pcosmar]

History is being made. This will change the game. How exactly is yet to be seen.
The world will be different from now on.

[PermanentSleep]

Al Jazeera - Army detains pro-Mubarak supporters at Liberation Square.

[pcosmar]

Watch this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?277878-Not-so-exclusive-this-time-Asmaa-Mahfouz-interview-Feb-2nd

Hero of Egypt speaks.
It is about Human Rights, Dignity and the Police State.

The Police State Authoritarians take note.

[specsaregood]

They keep saying "where do we go from here" if Mubarak doesn't step down....It all makes it more obvious why unarmed citizens are essentially powerless.

[pcosmar]

From Tweet,

@Sandmonkey: One group is peaceful and uses technology, the other is violent and uses rocks to smash your head. Which side do u wanna take? #jan25

[specsaregood]

From Tweet,


One group is peaceful and uses technology, the other is violent and uses rocks to smash your head. Which side do u wanna take? #jan25



Uhm, historically hasn't the crowd chosen the latter option?

[mczerone]

From Tweet,


@Sandmonkey: One group is peaceful and uses technology, the other is violent and uses rocks to smash your head. Which side do u wanna take? #jan25

This is the first tweet that I've ever considered saving to a quote collection.

[pcosmar]

Uhm, historically hasn't the crowd chosen the latter option?

No, Not until they were attacked. This started out peaceful and has attempted to remain so.
They have engaged attackers. I am a firm believer in self defense.

But from the beginning the violence was directed at them.

[mczerone]

http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish

They've stopped saying Tahir square, and started referring to it as Liberation Square only. Could indicate that the area is no longer seen as a memorialized park, and is now seen as the name of a place where Liberation is occurring. Hence it is no longer a proper noun, and should be translated.

[specsaregood]

No, Not until they were attacked. This started out peaceful and has attempted to remain so.
They have engaged attackers. I am a firm believer in self defense.
But from the beginning the violence was directed at them.

Right but the question was put in the present tense. I'm of the opinion that the attacks were meant as provocation. At some point the crowd will strike back.

[pcosmar]

Another,

@Sandmonkey: ths, more than anything, has bn a war of ideas. Ours is freedom, personal rights & end of dictatorship; theirs isn't. #jan25




@Dima_Khatib: What I can say personally is : Tahrir is REALLY PACKED !!!!! Beautiful at sunset .. praying again, all together #jan25

[pcosmar]

Right but the question was put in the present tense. I'm of the opinion that the attacks were meant as provocation. At some point the crowd will strike back.

My personal opinion,
I would love to see the Heads of State,,in a bag.

The people are remaining peaceful as yet.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

the wild card here which we have yet to see played, is the army soldiers. Not the army as an organization, but the individual soldiers disobeying orders and ousting Mubarak. If that doesn't happen, the only option left is for the people to sacrifice themselves and take the Palace.

What I think will happen now is a long standoff. Mubarak and co. will bet they can outlast the mobs.

[Pericles]

They keep saying "where do we go from here" if Mubarak doesn't step down....It all makes it more obvious why unarmed citizens are essentially powerless.
Good arms and good laws go together. Where the people have recourse to good arms, no Prince dare make a bad law. - The Prince

Niccolo Machiavelli

[Acala]

The Indians ousted the British largely without arms. It is a tough row to hoe and many of them died essentially throwing themselves on British bayonetes. They prevailed, but even Ghandi seems to have lamented their lack of arms and may have chosen non-violent civil disobedience because there really was no other choice.

[Pericles]

The Indians ousted the British largely without arms. It is a tough row to hoe and many of them died essentially throwing themselves on British bayonetes. They prevailed, but even Ghandi seems to have lamented their lack of arms and may have chosen non-violent civil disobedience because there really was no other choice.
They were fortunate to be occupied by the British, rather than the Japanese. I suspect civil disobedience would not work so well under a Japanese government.

[ExPatPaki]

The Indians ousted the British largely without arms.

The British were going to leave eventually. They could not sustain maintaining such a vast empire.

[Acala]

They were fortunate to be occupied by the British, rather than the Japanese. I suspect civil disobedience would not work so well under a Japanese government.

Perhaps. The British had a limit as to how much raw brutality they could stomach.

[Acala]

The British were going to leave eventually. They could not sustain maintaining such a vast empire.

Very likely. The trick to ousting a tyrant is timing. And guess who's time is coming? And I don't mean Mubarak.

[Acala]

They were fortunate to be occupied by the British, rather than the Japanese. I suspect civil disobedience would not work so well under a Japanese government.

Slightly off topic for the thread but always on topic for Pericles: I own a couple Egyptian rifles. An Hakim and an FN49, both in 8mm Mauser. Extremely well-made and robust. They function flawlessly. A bit heavy compared to modern arms. But I like 'em a bunch. The Hakim was the first rifle I bought for myself. Wish I had a Rashid.

[Jack Bauer]

I want an Egyptian Khopesh. Those are badass.

[heavenlyboy34]

Watch this video.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?277878-Not-so-exclusive-this-time-Asmaa-Mahfouz-interview-Feb-2nd

Hero of Egypt speaks.
It is about Human Rights, Dignity and the Police State.

The Police State Authoritarians take note.

Nice post, thanks. +rep

[tangent4ronpaul]

Assassination attempt on new Egyptian VP. It apparently happened yesterday and left 2 guards dead, but didn't get picked up in reporting. It was during a motorcade. Maybe that was the van that ran over those ppl?

[pcosmar]

Assassination attempt on new Egyptian VP. It apparently happened yesterday and left 2 guards dead, but didn't get picked up in reporting. It was during a motorcade. Maybe that was the van that ran over those ppl?

Was reported on Fox as the day after he was appointed.
Doubts, This bastard is as slimy as they come. Spy Chief and torturer, soviet trained and nasty.
If true, it is unfortunate that they failed.

Likely shot them himself.

edit;

Reports of an assassination attempt on Omar Suleiman appear to be false. #jan25

But, but, but Faux Snooze said,,,