Black Libertarians

[Ekrub]

Frederick Douglass
Booker T Washington
Zora Neal Hurston

Thoughts on these three?

[eric_cartman]

i remember there was one black guy that open carried to an anti-Obama rally and he gave a great interview on Alex Jones... i forget what his name was though.

[jmdrake]

i remember there was one black guy that open carried to an anti-Obama rally and he gave a great interview on Alex Jones... i forget what his name was though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUQFV95WXE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92DVGwhZOu4

[GunnyFreedom]

Frederick Douglass is like Ron Paul, but with more melanin.

[jmdrake]

Frederick Douglass
Booker T Washington
Zora Neal Hurston

Thoughts on these three?

Frederick Douglas:

WHAT THE BLACK MAN WANTS

I came here, as I come always to the meetings in New England, as a listener, and not as a speaker; and one of the reasons why I have not been more frequently to the meetings of this society, has been because of the disposition on the part of some of my friends to call me out upon the platform, even when they knew that there was some difference of opinion and of feeling between those who rightfully belong to this platform and myself; and for fear of being misconstrued, as desiring to interrupt or disturb the proceedings of these meetings, I have usually kept away, and have thus been deprived of that educating influence, which I am always free to confess is of the highest order, descending from this platform. I have felt, since I have lived out West [Douglass means west of Boston, in Rochester, NY], that in going there I parted from a great deal that was valuable; and I feel, every time I come to these meetings, that I have lost a great deal by making my home west of Boston, west of Massachusetts; for, if anywhere in the country there is to be found the highest sense of justice, or the truest demands for my race, I look for it in the East, I look for it here. The ablest discussions of the whole question of our rights occur here, and to be deprived of the privilege of listening to those discussions is a great deprivation.

I do not know, from what has been said, that there is any difference of opinion as to the duty of abolitionists, at the present moment. How can we get up any difference at this point, or any point, where we are so united, so agreed? I went especially, however, with that word of Mr. Phillips, which is the criticism of Gen. Banks and Gen. Banks' policy. [Gen. Banks instituted a labor policy in Louisiana that was discriminatory of blacks, claiming that it was to help prepare them to better handle freedom. Wendell Phillips countered by saying, "If there is anything patent in the whole history of our thirty years' struggle, it is that the Negro no more needs to be prepared for liberty than the white man."] I hold that that policy is our chief danger at the present moment; that it practically enslaves the Negro, and makes the Proclamation [the Emancipation Proclamation] of 1863 a mockery and delusion. What is freedom? It is the right to choose one's own employment. Certainly it means that, if it means anything; and when any individual or combination of individuals undertakes to decide for any man when he shall work, where he shall work, at what he shall work, and for what he shall work, he or they practically reduce him to slavery. [Applause.] He is a slave. That I understand Gen. Banks to do--to determine for the so-called freedman, when, and where, and at what, and for how much he shall work, when he shall be punished, and by whom punished. It is absolute slavery. It defeats the beneficent intention of the Government, if it has beneficent intentions, in regards to the freedom of our people.

I have had but one idea for the last three years to present to the American people, and the phraseology in which I clothe it is the old abolition phraseology. I am for the "immediate, unconditional, and universal" enfranchisement of the black man, in every State in the Union. [Loud applause.] Without this, his liberty is a mockery; without this, you might as well almost retain the old name of slavery for his condition; for in fact, if he is not the slave of the individual master, he is the slave of society, and holds his liberty as a privilege, not as a right. He is at the mercy of the mob, and has no means of protecting himself.

It may be objected, however, that this pressing of the Negro's right to suffrage is premature. Let us have slavery abolished, it may be said, let us have labor organized, and then, in the natural course of events, the right of suffrage will be extended to the Negro. I do not agree with this. The constitution of the human mind is such, that if it once disregards the conviction forced upon it by a revelation of truth, it requires the exercise of a higher power to produce the same conviction afterwards. The American people are now in tears. The Shenandoah has run blood--the best blood of the North. All around Richmond, the blood of New England and of the North has been shed--of your sons, your brothers and your fathers. We all feel, in the existence of this Rebellion, that judgments terrible, wide-spread, far-reaching, overwhelming, are abroad in the land; and we feel, in view of these judgments, just now, a disposition to learn righteousness. This is the hour. Our streets are in mourning, tears are falling at every fireside, and under the chastisement of this Rebellion we have almost come up to the point of conceding this great, this all-important right of suffrage. I fear that if we fail to do it now, if abolitionists fail to press it now, we may not see, for centuries to come, the same disposition that exists at this moment. [Applause.] Hence, I say, now is the time to press this right.

It may be asked, "Why do you want it? Some men have got along very well without it. Women have not this right." Shall we justify one wrong by another? This is the sufficient answer. Shall we at this moment justify the deprivation of the Negro of the right to vote, because some one else is deprived of that privilege? I hold that women, as well as men, have the right to vote [applause], and my heart and voice go with the movement to extend suffrage to woman; but that question rests upon another basis than which our right rests. We may be asked, I say, why we want it. I will tell you why we want it. We want it because it is our right, first of all. No class of men can, without insulting their own nature, be content with any deprivation of their rights. We want it again, as a means for educating our race. Men are so constituted that they derive their conviction of their own possibilities largely by the estimate formed of them by others. If nothing is expected of a people, that people will find it difficult to contradict that expectation. By depriving us of suffrage, you affirm our incapacity to form an intelligent judgment respecting public men and public measures; you declare before the world that we are unfit to exercise the elective franchise, and by this means lead us to undervalue ourselves, to put a low estimate upon ourselves, and to feel that we have no possibilities like other men. Again, I want the elective franchise, for one, as a colored man, because ours is a peculiar government, based upon a peculiar idea, and that idea is universal suffrage. If I were in a monarchial government, or an autocratic or aristocratic government, where the few bore rule and the many were subject, there would be no special stigma resting upon me, because I did not exercise the elective franchise. It would do me no great violence. Mingling with the mass I should partake of the strength of the mass; I should be supported by the mass, and I should have the same incentives to endeavor with the mass of my fellow-men; it would be no particular burden, no particular deprivation; but here where universal suffrage is the rule, where that is the fundamental idea of the Government, to rule us out is to make us an exception, to brand us with the stigma of inferiority, and to invite to our heads the missiles of those about us; therefore, I want the franchise for the black man.

There are, however, other reasons, not derived from any consideration merely of our rights, but arising out of the conditions of the South, and of the country--considerations which have already been referred to by Mr. Phillips--considerations which must arrest the attention of statesmen. I believe that when the tall heads of this Rebellion shall have been swept down, as they will be swept down, when the Davises and Toombses and Stephenses, and others who are leading this Rebellion shall have been blotted out, there will be this rank undergrowth of treason, to which reference has been made, growing up there, and interfering with, and thwarting the quiet operation of the Federal Government in those states. You will se those traitors, handing down, from sire to son, the same malignant spirit which they have manifested and which they are now exhibiting, with malicious hearts, broad blades, and bloody hands in the field, against our sons and brothers. That spirit will still remain; and whoever sees the Federal Government extended over those Southern States will see that Government in a strange land, and not only in a strange land, but in an enemy's land. A post-master of the United States in the South will find himself surrounded by a hostile spirit; a collector in a Southern port will find himself surrounded by a hostile spirit; a United States marshal or United States judge will be surrounded there by a hostile element. That enmity will not die out in a year, will not die out in an age. The Federal Government will be looked upon in those States precisely as the Governments of Austria and France are looked upon in Italy at the present moment. They will endeavor to circumvent, they will endeavor to destroy, the peaceful operation of this Government. Now, where will you find the strength to counterbalance this spirit, if you do not find it in the Negroes of the South? They are your friends, and have always been your friends. They were your friends even when the Government did not regard them as such. They comprehended the genius of this war before you did. It is a significant fact, it is a marvellous fact, it seems almost to imply a direct interposition of Providence, that this war, which began in the interest of slavery on both sides, bids fair to end in the interest of liberty on both sides. [Applause.] It was begun, I say, in the interest of slavery on both sides. The South was fighting to take slavery out of the Union, and the North was fighting to keep it in the Union; the South fighting to get it beyond the limits of the United States Constitution, and the North fighting to retain it within those limits; the South fighting for new guarantees, and the North fighting for the old guarantees;--both despising the Negro, both insulting the Negro. Yet, the Negro, apparently endowed with wisdom from on high, saw more clearly the end from the beginning than we did. When Seward said the status of no man in the country would be changed by the war, the Negro did not believe him. [Applause.] When our generals sent their underlings in shoulder-straps to hunt the flying Negro back from our lines into the jaws of slavery, from which he had escaped, the Negroes thought that a mistake had been made, and that the intentions of the Government had not been rightly understood by our officers in shoulder-straps, and they continued to come into our lines, threading their way through bogs and fens, over briers and thorns, fording streams, swimming rivers, bringing us tidings as to the safe path to march, and pointing out the dangers that threatened us. They are our only friends in the South, and we should be true to them in this their trial hour, and see to it that they have the elective franchise.

I know that we are inferior to you in some things--virtually inferior. We walk about you like dwarfs among giants. Our heads are scarcely seen above the great sea of humanity. The Germans are superior to us; the Irish are superior to us; the Yankees are superior to us [Laughter]; they can do what we cannot, that is, what we have not hitherto been allowed to do. But while I make this admission, I utterly deny, that we are originally, or naturally, or practically, or in any way, or in any important sense, inferior to anybody on this globe. [Loud applause.] This charge of inferiority is an old dodge. It has been made available for oppression on many occasions. It is only about six centuries since the blue-eyed and fair-haired Anglo-Saxons were considered inferior by the haughty Normans, who once trampled upon them. If you read the history of the Norman Conquest, you will find that this proud Anglo-Saxon was once looked upon as of coarser clay than his Norman master, and might be found in the highways and byways of Old England laboring with a brass collar on his neck, and the name of his master marked upon it. You were down then! [Laughter and applause.] You are up now. I am glad you are up, and I want you to be glad to help us up also. [Applause.]

The story of our inferiority is an old dodge, as I have said; for wherever men oppress their fellows, wherever they enslave them, they will endeavor to find the needed apology for such enslavement and oppression in the character of the people oppressed and enslaved. When we wanted, a few years ago, a slice of Mexico, it was hinted that the Mexicans were an inferior race, that the old Castilian blood had become so weak that it would scarcely run down hill, and that Mexico needed the long, strong and beneficent arm of the Anglo-Saxon care extended over it. We said that it was necessary to its salvation, and a part of the "manifest destiny" of this Republic, to extend our arm over that dilapidated government. So, too, when Russia wanted to take possession of a part of the Ottoman Empire, the Turks were an "inferior race." So, too, when England wants to set the heel of her power more firmly in the quivering heart of old Ireland, the Celts are an "inferior race." So, too, the Negro, when he is to be robbed of any right which is justly his, is an "inferior man." It is said that we are ignorant; I admit it. But if we know enough to be hung, we know enough to vote. If the Negro knows enough to pay taxes to support the government, he knows enough to vote; taxation and representation should go together. If he knows enough to shoulder a musket and fight for the flag, fight for the government, he knows enough to vote. If he knows as much when he is sober as an Irishman knows when drunk, he knows enough to vote, on good American principles. [Laughter and applause.]

But I was saying that you needed a counterpoise in the persons of the slaves to the enmity that would exist at the South after the Rebellion is put down. I hold that the American people are bound, not only in self-defence, to extend this right to the freedmen of the South, but they are bound by their love of country, and by all their regard for the future safety of those Southern States, to do this--to do it as a measure essential to the preservation of peace there. But I will not dwell upon this. I put it to the American sense of honor. The honor of a nation is an important thing. It is said in the Scriptures, "What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" It may be said, also, What doth it profit a nation if it gain the whole world, but lose its honor? I hold that the American government has taken upon itself a solemn obligation of honor, to see that this war--let it be long or short, let it cost much or let it cost little--that this war shall not cease until every freedman at the South has the right to vote. [Applause.] It has bound itself to it. What have you asked the black men of the South, the black men of the whole country to do? Why, you have asked them to incure the enmity of their masters, in order to befriend you and to befriend this Government. You have asked us to call down, not only upon ourselves, but upon our children's children, the deadly hate of the entire Southern people. You have called upon us to turn our backs upon our masters, to abandon their cause and espouse yours; to turn against the South and in favor of the North; to shoot down the Confederacy and uphold the flag-- the American flag. You have called upon us to expose ourselves to all the subtle machinations of their malignity for all time. And now, what do you propose to do when you come to make peace? To reward your enemies, and trample in the dust your friends? Do you intend to sacrifice the very men who have come to the rescue of your banner in the South, and incurred the lasting displeasure of their masters thereby? Do you intend to sacrifice them and reward your enemies? Do you mean to give your enemies the right to vote, and take it away from your friends? Is that wise policy? Is that honorable? Could American honor withstand such a blow? I do not believe you will do it. I think you will see to it that we have the right to vote. There is something too mean in looking upon the Negro, when you are in trouble, as a citizen, and when you are free from trouble, as an alien. When this nation was in trouble, in its early struggles, it looked upon the Negro as a citizen. In 1776 he was a citizen. At the time of the formation of the Consitution the Negro had the right to vote in eleven States out of the old thirteen. In your trouble you have made us citizens. In 1812 Gen. Jackson addressed us as citizens--"fellow-citizens." He wanted us to fight. We were citizens then! And now, when you come to frame a conscription bill, the Negro is a citizen again. He has been a citizen just three times in the history of this government, and it has always been in time of trouble. In time of trouble we are citizens. Shall we be citizens in war, and aliens in peace? Would that be just?

I ask my friends who are apologizing for not insisting upon this right, where can the black man look, in this country, for the assertion of his right, if he may not look to the Massachusetts Anti-Slavery Society? Where under the whole heavens can he look for sympathy, in asserting this right, if he may not look to this platform? Have you lifted us up to a certain height to see that we are men, and then are any disposed to leave us there, without seeing that we are put in possession of all our rights? We look naturally to this platform for the assertion of all our rights, and for this one especially. I understand the anti-slavery societies of this country to be based on two principles,--first, the freedom of the blacks of this country; and, second, the elevation of them. Let me not be misunderstood here. I am not asking for sympathy at the hands of abolitionists, sympathy at the hands of any. I think the American people are disposed often to be generous rather than just. I look over this country at the present time, and I see Educational Societies, Sanitary Commissions, Freedmen's Associations, and the like,--all very good: but in regard to the colored people there is always more that is benevolent, I perceive, than just, manifested towards us. What I ask for the Negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. [Applause.] The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us. Gen. Banks was distressed with solicitude as to what he should do with the Negro. Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury. Gen. Banks' "preparation" is of a piece with this attempt to prop up the Negro. Let him fall if he cannot stand alone! If the Negro cannot live by the line of eternal justice, so beautifully pictured to you in the illustration used by Mr. Phillips, the fault will not be yours, it will be his who made the Negro, and established that line for his government. [Applause.] Let him live or die by that. If you will only untie his hands, and give him a chance, I think he will live. He will work as readily for himself as the white man. A great many delusions have been swept away by this war. One was, that the Negro would not work; he has proved his ability to work. Another was, that the Negro would not fight; that he possessed only the most sheepish attributes of humanity; was a perfect lamb, or an "Uncle Tom;" disposed to take off his coat whenever required, fold his hands, and be whipped by anybody who wanted to whip him. But the war has proved that there is a great deal of human nature in the Negro, and that "he will fight," as Mr. Quincy, our President, said, in earlier days than these, "when there is reasonable probability of his whipping anybody." [Laughter and applause.]
(Foner, Volume Four, pages 157- 165)

[jmdrake]

Frederick Douglass
Booker T Washington
Zora Neal Hurston

Thoughts on these three?

Booker T. Washington speech.

Booker T. Washington Delivers the 1895 Atlanta Compromise Speech

On September 18, 1895, African-American spokesman and leader Booker T. Washington spoke before a predominantly white audience at the Cotton States and International Exposition in Atlanta. His “Atlanta Compromise” address, as it came to be called, was one of the most important and influential speeches in American history. Although the organizers of the exposition worried that “public sentiment was not prepared for such an advanced step,” they decided that inviting a black speaker would impress Northern visitors with the evidence of racial progress in the South. Washington soothed his listeners’ concerns about “uppity” blacks by claiming that his race would content itself with living “by the productions of our hands.”

Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Board of Directors and Citizens:

One-third of the population of the South is of the Negro race. No enterprise seeking the material, civil, or moral welfare of this section can disregard this element of our population and reach the highest success. I but convey to you, Mr. President and Directors, the sentiment of the masses of my race when I say that in no way have the value and manhood of the American Negro been more fittingly and generously recognized than by the managers of this magnificent Exposition at every stage of its progress. It is a recognition that will do more to cement the friendship of the two races than any occurrence since the dawn of our freedom.

Not only this, but the opportunity here afforded will awaken among us a new era of industrial progress. Ignorant and inexperienced, it is not strange that in the first years of our new life we began at the top instead of at the bottom; that a seat in Congress or the state legislature was more sought than real estate or industrial skill; that the political convention or stump speaking had more attractions than starting a dairy farm or truck garden.

A ship lost at sea for many days suddenly sighted a friendly vessel. From the mast of the unfortunate vessel was seen a signal,“Water, water; we die of thirst!” The answer from the friendly vessel at once came back, “Cast down your bucket where you are.” A second time the signal, “Water, water; send us water!” ran up from the distressed vessel, and was answered, “Cast down your bucket where you are.” And a third and fourth signal for water was answered, “Cast down your bucket where you are.” The captain of the distressed vessel, at last heeding the injunction, cast down his bucket, and it came up full of fresh, sparkling water from the mouth of the Amazon River. To those of my race who depend on bettering their condition in a foreign land or who underestimate the importance of cultivating friendly relations with the Southern white man, who is their next-door neighbor, I would say: “Cast down your bucket where you are”— cast it down in making friends in every manly way of the people of all races by whom we are surrounded.

Cast it down in agriculture, mechanics, in commerce, in domestic service, and in the professions. And in this connection it is well to bear in mind that whatever other sins the South may be called to bear, when it comes to business, pure and simple, it is in the South that the Negro is given a man’s chance in the commercial world, and in nothing is this Exposition more eloquent than in emphasizing this chance. Our greatest danger is that in the great leap from slavery to freedom we may overlook the fact that the masses of us are to live by the productions of our hands, and fail to keep in mind that we shall prosper in proportion as we learn to dignify and glorify common labour, and put brains and skill into the common occupations of life; shall prosper in proportion as we learn to draw the line between the superficial and the substantial, the ornamental gewgaws of life and the useful. No race can prosper till it learns that there is as much dignity in tilling a field as in writing a poem. It is at the bottom of life we must begin, and not at the top. Nor should we permit our grievances to overshadow our opportunities.

To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted I would repeat what I say to my own race,“Cast down your bucket where you are.” Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides. Cast down your bucket among these people who have, without strikes and labour wars, tilled your fields, cleared your forests, builded your railroads and cities, and brought forth treasures from the bowels of the earth, and helped make possible this magnificent representation of the progress of the South. Casting down your bucket among my people, helping and encouraging them as you are doing on these grounds, and to education of head, hand, and heart, you will find that they will buy your surplus land, make blossom the waste places in your fields, and run your factories. While doing this, you can be sure in the future, as in the past, that you and your families will be surrounded by the most patient, faithful, law-abiding, and unresentful people that the world has seen. As we have proved our loyalty to you in the past, in nursing your children, watching by the sick-bed of your mothers and fathers, and often following them with tear-dimmed eyes to their graves, so in the future, in our humble way, we shall stand by you with a devotion that no foreigner can approach, ready to lay down our lives, if need be, in defense of yours, interlacing our industrial, commercial, civil, and religious life with yours in a way that shall make the interests of both races one. In all things that are purely social we can be as separate as the fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress.

There is no defense or security for any of us except in the highest intelligence and development of all. If anywhere there are efforts tending to curtail the fullest growth of the Negro, let these efforts be turned into stimulating, encouraging, and making him the most useful and intelligent citizen. Effort or means so invested will pay a thousand per cent interest. These efforts will be twice blessed—blessing him that gives and him that takes. There is no escape through law of man or God from the inevitable:

The laws of changeless justice bind Oppressor with oppressed;

And close as sin and suffering joined We march to fate abreast...

Nearly sixteen millions of hands will aid you in pulling the load upward, or they will pull against you the load downward. We shall constitute one-third and more of the ignorance and crime of the South, or one-third [of] its intelligence and progress; we shall contribute one-third to the business and industrial prosperity of the South, or we shall prove a veritable body of death, stagnating, depressing, retarding every effort to advance the body politic.

Gentlemen of the Exposition, as we present to you our humble effort at an exhibition of our progress, you must not expect overmuch. Starting thirty years ago with ownership here and there in a few quilts and pumpkins and chickens (gathered from miscellaneous sources), remember the path that has led from these to the inventions and production of agricultural implements, buggies, steam-engines, newspapers, books, statuary, carving, paintings, the management of drug stores and banks, has not been trodden without contact with thorns and thistles. While we take pride in what we exhibit as a result of our independent efforts, we do not for a moment forget that our part in this exhibition would fall far short of your expectations but for the constant help that has come to our educational life, not only from the Southern states, but especially from Northern philanthropists, who have made their gifts a constant stream of blessing and encouragement.

The wisest among my race understand that the agitation of questions of social equality is the extremest folly, and that progress in the enjoyment of all the privileges that will come to us must be the result of severe and constant struggle rather than of artificial forcing. No race that has anything to contribute to the markets of the world is long in any degree ostracized. It is important and right that all privileges of the law be ours, but it is vastly more important that we be prepared for the exercise of these privileges. The opportunity to earn a dollar in a factory just now is worth infinitely more than the opportunity to spend a dollar in an opera-house.

In conclusion, may I repeat that nothing in thirty years has given us more hope and encouragement, and drawn us so near to you of the white race, as this opportunity offered by the Exposition; and here bending, as it were, over the altar that represents the results of the struggles of your race and mine, both starting practically empty-handed three decades ago, I pledge that in your effort to work out the great and intricate problem which God has laid at the doors of the South, you shall have at all times the patient, sympathetic help of my race; only let this he constantly in mind, that, while from representations in these buildings of the product of field, of forest, of mine, of factory, letters, and art, much good will come, yet far above and beyond material benefits will be that higher good, that, let us pray God, will come, in a blotting out of sectional differences and racial animosities and suspicions, in a determination to administer absolute justice, in a willing obedience among all classes to the mandates of law. This, coupled with our material prosperity, will bring into our beloved South a new heaven and a new earth.

[pcosmar]

i remember there was one black guy that open carried to an anti-Obama rally and he gave a great interview on Alex Jones... i forget what his name was though.

There is also William Grigg whose articles are often posted here. And possibly Walter Williams But I have only read a little by him,

As a couple of Contemporary Gentlemen.

[Elwar]

What is a black?

[pcosmar]

What is a black?

Commonly used descriptive for darker complected folks. ;)

[Madly_Sane]

I want to know the difference between a white libertarian and a black libertarian and why that difference matters.

[CaliforniaMom]

I've never thought about it before... but now that this topic is brought up, I just realized every libertarian I ever met (except one Indian) was white.... and I've met a lot of libertarians.

[RileyE104]

I want to know the difference between a white libertarian and a black libertarian and why that difference matters.

i think it's just the fact that the online libertarian population wishes there were more outspoken blacks so the media can stop having a circus by classifying the movement as angry whites

btw im filipino if that helps anything... lol

[Elwar]

Commonly used descriptive for darker complected folks. ;)

Ahh, ok then.

You can count me as a black libertarian.

But only in the summer.

And sometimes I'm a red libertarian.

[pcosmar]

Ahh, ok then.

You can count me as a black libertarian.

But only in the summer.

And sometimes I'm a red libertarian.

:D
I had a good tan in Florida Working and playing in the sun.
I'm pretty pale now in the snow.

sort of chameleon like. ;)

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

I've never thought about it before... but now that this topic is brought up, I just realized every libertarian I ever met (except one Indian) was white.... and I've met a lot of libertarians.


Hello there.

Ok...now you've met a black libertarian.

[pcosmar]

Hello there.

Ok...now you've met a black libertarian.
:D
LOL.
You are at least the 2nd one in this thread.

I want to know the difference between a white libertarian and a black libertarian and why that difference matters.

Skin tone. (color)
And it don't.

:cool:

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

i think it's just the fact that the online libertarian population wishes there were more outspoken blacks so the media can stop having a circus by classifying the movement as angry whites

btw im filipino if that helps anything... lol

Fact is, most black folks in this country are either (a) Brain washed by decades of govt and media indoctrination (b) to scared to speak out on fear of being called a "race traitor", Uncle Tom, Coon, Oreo, etc., or (c) Just haven't been fairly introduced to the way of thinking.

Talking to many black folks, I've found them to be very receptive to the libertarian message when you don't identify it as libertarian or conservative. You just ask them, Are you for police brutality and government controlling your actions? Do you like keeping your money? Do you trust the government? Do you believe you own your own body? Do believe your brothers and sisters should be locked up for years for using drugs?

You would be surprised at the answers you would get. But then ask them, "who did you vote for President" Obama!!

You just got to clear the smoke for them sometimes.

[oyarde]

Liberty has no color !!!

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Before I began to identify myself as a libertarian, I thought libertarian meant "A proponent of state's right" which to me meant "It's ok if the government walks all over you, as long as its the states and not the feds." But as I learned more and more starting with Ron Paul, then Peter Schiff, then the Mises institute, etc...if found the common thread of liberty, period. Now Im damn near an anarchist but I do realize that it will take a long time for humans to realize that govt isn't necessary so I just hope one day to have one that is extremely limited.

[Ekrub]

I only bring them up us we don't talk much about them here on RPF and I felt that they needed some exposure. Frederick Douglass is the man and he is quickly becoming my second favorite libertarian.

[robert68]

I've never thought about it before... but now that this topic is brought up, I just realized every libertarian I ever met (except one Indian) was white.... and I've met a lot of libertarians.

Many libertarians laud the American Revolution and think quite favorably of the pre-Lincoln US years. Blacks should have a very different view of that time period.

[torchbearer]

We have a huge surge in dark skin libertarians in louisiana thank to T. Lee Horne, III.
His family has been privately charitable to the surrounding black communities for generations.
They came to an LALP meeting a few years back, loved everything we were talking about.
Now half of the central committee is people with dark skin. It was nice to see such a broad spectrum of skin tone.
One love.

[jmdrake]

I want to know the difference between a white libertarian and a black libertarian and why that difference matters.

There is a different set of experiences which leads to a different perspective. Look at the speech I posted from Frederick Douglas for example. While it's a far cry from what you see from many "black leaders" today, it also takes a different take on the civil war than what's typically seen around here. Note I am not trying to derail this thread by starting yet another fruitless conversation on that subject. Just saying there is more than one legitimate libertarian perspective on that and other issues.

[BenIsForRon]

I want to know the difference between a white libertarian and a black libertarian and why that difference matters.

It's hard for a minority to trust an ideological movement that contains very few of it's own people. So more visible black libertarians will help give us legitimacy in the black community. That is if, they're genuine (which is why the Michael Steele stunt by the RNC didn't gain them any support).

[GunnyFreedom]

Ron Paul'ers and C4L'ers need to join and work very very closely with the Frederick Douglass Foundation:

http://www.frederickdouglassfoundation.com/

seriously.

ETA - I know there are a few areas where we will disagree, but please believe me when I say they wil be our most important partner going forward. Remember, our working with them will influence them as well...

[Madly_Sane]

It's hard for a minority to trust an ideological movement that contains very few of it's own people. So more visible black libertarians will help give us legitimacy in the black community. That is if, they're genuine (which is why the Michael Steele stunt by the RNC didn't gain them any support).

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't understand it, most likely because I am white and am not as oppressed in the American society.
But, why wouldn't they trust the movement? Libertarians(most that I've seen) are strong supporters of the constitution and the Bill of Rights, Amendment 14 grants equal protection under the law.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I think Crispus Attucks would be considered a libertarian today.

[Kregisen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUQFV95WXE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92DVGwhZOu4

Chris is in my Students for Liberty club. :)

[Daamien]

This thread made me think about the Nas and Jay-Z song, "Black Republicans"

There are actually a number of modern black libertarians:
Walter Williams
Deroy Murdoch
Larry Elder
George Ayittey
James Robinson
Anne Wortham
Thomas Sowell

[oyarde]

This thread made me think about the Nas and Jay-Z song, "Black Republicans"

There are actually a number of modern black libertarians:
Walter Williams
Deroy Murdoch
Larry Elder
George Ayittey
James Robinson
Anne Wortham
Thomas Sowell

Sowell has some interesting books .

[AGRP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Nuy_gbMtc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GklCBvS-eI&feature=related

[juvanya]

Frederick Douglass is like Ron Paul, but with more melanin.

Really? How do you justify that? I speak more out of ignorance. I always thought he would be a statist or socialist or something based on what I know.

[GunnyFreedom]

Really? How do you justify that? I speak more out of ignorance. I always thought he would be a statist or socialist or something based on what I know.

Young Frederick Douglass thought that the Constitution had enabled slavery, and opposed it vehemently. Older Frederick Douglass said that the best guarantee of Black American civil and human rights was the strict and equal enforcement of the US Constitution. And that was before the 14th Amendment.

Douglass went through a long journey in life, but most of the "high points" (meaning real successes) of his activist life came once he became a strict Constitutionalist.

Strict Constitutionalism (speaking about the US Constitution) is a pretty monolithic philosophy. If you are a Strict Constitutionalist (as was Frederick Douglass in the latter half of his life) then you are pretty close to a Ron Paul clone.

When reading his works, you have to discern between the younger Douglass and the elder Douglass. His life was characterized by philosophical growth and eventual near-perfection.

[robert68]

Young Frederick Douglass thought that the Constitution had enabled slavery, and opposed it vehemently. Older Frederick Douglass said that the best guarantee of Black American civil and human rights was the strict and equal enforcement of the US Constitution. And that was before the 14th Amendment.

Douglass went through a long journey in life, but most of the "high points" (meaning real successes) of his activist life came once he became a strict Constitutionalist.

Strict Constitutionalism (speaking about the US Constitution) is a pretty monolithic philosophy. If you are a Strict Constitutionalist (as was Frederick Douglass in the latter half of his life) then you are pretty close to a Ron Paul clone.
When reading his works, you have to discern between the younger Douglass and the elder Douglass. His life was characterized by philosophical growth and eventual near-perfection.

Frederick Douglass supported Lincoln and the Civil War.

Ron Paul's words from his Meet the Press appearance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbOE4Ip7In0&NR=1) and from "Ron Paul, Abraham Lincoln and the Necessity of the Civil War" (http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-peace/5100-ron-paul-abraham-lincoln-and-the-necessity-of-the-civil-war.html) :


MR. RUSSERT: I was intrigued by your comments about Abe Lincoln. "According to Paul, Abe Lincoln should never have gone to war; there were better ways of getting rid of slavery."

REP. PAUL: Absolutely. Six hundred thousand Americans died in a senseless civil war. No, he shouldn't have gone, gone to war. He did this just to enhance and get rid of the original intent of the republic. I mean, it was the--that iron, iron fist..

[Flash]

Frederick Douglass supported Lincoln and the Civil War.


Come on lets be honest. If anyone lived during that time and was black they would've supported Lincoln's war.

[robert68]

Come on lets be honest. If anyone lived during that time and was black they would've supported Lincoln's war.

I suspect you’re just assuming that. In any case, the poster I was responding to had stated: "If you are a Strict Constitutionalist (as was Frederick Douglass in the latter half of his life) then you are pretty close to a Ron Paul clone." My post was intended to show the case is otherwise and did so.

[GunnyFreedom]

Come on lets be honest. If anyone lived during that time and was black they would've supported Lincoln's war.

LOL! this ^^^

It doesn't make Lincoln or Lincoln's war right, but this sort of thing should be obvious. A former slave who escaped and then made enough money to buy his freedom? yes, he's going to support the abolition of slavery "by any means necessary."

[GunnyFreedom]

I suspect you’re just assuming that. In any case, the poster I was responding to had stated: "If you are a Strict Constitutionalist (as was Frederick Douglass in the latter half of his life) then you are pretty close to a Ron Paul clone." My post was intended to show the case is otherwise and did so.

And Dr. Paul's support for prohibiting abortion at the Federal level can be successfully argued as unconstitutional as well. Slavery and the Civil War is to Douglass what abortion and Federal right to life laws are to Paul. I get it. It isn't even all that hard to grasp...

ETA except inasmuch as Dr Paul is far more knowledgeable on the Constitution and is thus properly pursuing the amendment process... but he has demonstrated openness to abolishing abortion at the Federal level without a Constitutional amendment also.

[AlexMerced]

I'm a hispanic Libertarian, I think there is even less of those, I mean I see black libertarians all the time on freedom watch, I can think of very few hispanic ones from the US. There are plenty in countries south of the border where libertarian movements are starting to rise.

[eric_cartman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUQFV95WXE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92DVGwhZOu4


ya, this guy's awesome

[robert68]

Come on lets be honest. If anyone lived during that time and was black they would've supported Lincoln's war.

From the article "Virginia's Black Confederates" (http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/virginia-s-black-confederates.html) by Walter Williams:


...In April 1861, a Petersburg, Va., newspaper proposed "three cheers for the patriotic free Negroes of Lynchburg" after 70 blacks offered "to act in whatever capacity may be assigned to them" in defense of Virginia. Ex-slave Frederick Douglass observed, "There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down ... and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government."

Charles H. Wesley, a distinguished black historian who lived from 1891 to 1987, wrote "The Employment of Negroes as Soldiers in the Confederate Army," in the Journal of Negro History (1919). He says, "Seventy free blacks enlisted in the Confederate Army in Lynchburg, Virginia. Sixteen companies (1,600) of free men of color marched through Augusta, Georgia on their way to fight in Virginia."

Wesley cites Horace Greeley's "American Conflict" (1866) saying, "For more than two years, Negroes had been extensively employed in belligerent operations by the Confederacy.

They had been embodied and drilled as rebel soldiers and had paraded with white troops at a time when this would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union."

Wesley goes on to say, "An observer in Charleston at the outbreak of the war noted the preparation for war, and called particular attention to the thousand Negroes who, so far from inclining to insurrections, were grinning from ear to ear at the prospect of shooting the Yankees."...

[sratiug]

Come on lets be honest. If anyone lived during that time and was black they would've supported Lincoln's war.

You are saying the black slaves in Delaware and Maryland were impressed by armies marching south to conquer the Confederacy? Why would that be, when the Union had no intention of freeing them or anyone else?