why are many college and high school dropouts successful?

[JackieDan]

Is there a real difference between school or college, and the real world?
Why are the most richest people college and high school dropouts? What made them better than those who thought they believed their teachers would make them more successful?

In my country Sweden. Our legendary billionarie Ingvar Kamprad began as a carpenter and thereafter launched IKEA. Today, he's one of the richest men in the world. This guy didn't even stretch his foot to a college bench.

But the story doesn't end there. Look at this list of billionarie dropouts. Here're the most known people in the world for their huge wallets and scientific breakthroughts:

http://www.pennylicious.com/2006/10/09/billionaire-dropouts/
http://www.retireat21.com/blog/the-most-successful-college-dropouts-in-history

and wikipedia lists them as well,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

I don't somehow discredit or undermine school or something like that.
But how come these guys are more successful than college graduates or PhDs?

[JoshLowry]

Hard work in the right area and a dose of luck.

Most high school drop outs are not going to be "successful." You are looking at a few exceptions out of the millions.

[JackieDan]

Hard work in the right area and a dose of luck.

Most high school drop outs are not going to be "successful." You are looking at a few exceptions out of the millions.

yes, but these "few" have more money than the millions - remember that.

[oyarde]

Hard work in the right area and a dose of luck.

Most high school drop outs are not going to be "successful." You are looking at a few exceptions out of the millions.

I guess I would not say not " successful " , but maybe less oppurtunity , less chance for advancement ( if working for someone else ) and overall lower earnings on avg.

[low preference guy]

I don't somehow discredit or undermine school or something like that.


that's your mistake

[MelissaWV]

Staying in school does mean something. It can mean that you know what you want to do, and it requires a degree. It can mean that you want a degree because "everyone else" has one and you think you must have one to compete. It can mean you're a sheep and just went with the flow and what was expected of you. It can mean you have an overdeveloped sense of what college can do for you, and the status it imparts.

People who go these routes can still be successful, but it's more likely they will be successful within the confines of a regular life. In other words, this is not the pool from which the multi-millionaires are drawn. This is where people with comfortable salaries and who make enough to support themselves and their families often start out.

Now, what happens when you drop out?

You might drop out because it's too difficult to keep studying. This puts you in line with similar others for dead-end jobs that hold no real hope for you. You might drop out because you simply dislike it. This attitude won't help matters. Now, you might drop out because you have an idea, or you'd like to see the world, or because your field does not require college and you're smart enough to notice. In this last category there will still be a lot of failures. There will also be those rare folks who get a jump on the competition and make a name for themselves. Those are the outliers you were talking about.

So maybe it's that dropouts are more likely to have the moxie to make it without a degree, and have a jumpstart on their peers. I never finished college, either, and I'm happy with where I am economically :) Being self-made is still more praiseworthy to me than sitting through another couple of years of school and gaining a piece of paper.

[BlackTerrel]

Staying in school does mean something. It can mean that you know what you want to do, and it requires a degree. It can mean that you want a degree because "everyone else" has one and you think you must have one to compete. It can mean you're a sheep and just went with the flow and what was expected of you. It can mean you have an overdeveloped sense of what college can do for you, and the status it imparts.

People who go these routes can still be successful, but it's more likely they will be successful within the confines of a regular life. In other words, this is not the pool from which the multi-millionaires are drawn. This is where people with comfortable salaries and who make enough to support themselves and their families often start out.

Now, what happens when you drop out?

You might drop out because it's too difficult to keep studying. This puts you in line with similar others for dead-end jobs that hold no real hope for you. You might drop out because you simply dislike it. This attitude won't help matters. Now, you might drop out because you have an idea, or you'd like to see the world, or because your field does not require college and you're smart enough to notice. In this last category there will still be a lot of failures. There will also be those rare folks who get a jump on the competition and make a name for themselves. Those are the outliers you were talking about.

So maybe it's that dropouts are more likely to have the moxie to make it without a degree, and have a jumpstart on their peers. I never finished college, either, and I'm happy with where I am economically :) Being self-made is still more praiseworthy to me than sitting through another couple of years of school and gaining a piece of paper.

You can still have gone to school and be self made.

[BlackTerrel]

Some are some aren't. Kevin Garnett never went to college either.

But I am pretty sure any study detailing mean income of college vs non college education will tell you that those who go to college generally do better.

Now causation? That is more subjective.

[Dr.3D]

Some are some aren't. Kevin Garnett never went to college either.

But I am pretty sure any study detailing mean income of college vs non college education will tell you that those who go to college generally do better.

Now causation? That is more subjective.

Yeah, they generally do better after they spend 20 years paying off the loans they took to get that education.

[acptulsa]

Because a degree makes you invested in The System, while the lack of a degree gives you nothing to gain from The System and everything to gain from bucking the hell out of The System? So a degree gets you a lifetime of ass kissing, and the lack of overwhelming college loans gives you a modicum of freedom to maneuver?

The problem with a caste system is sometimes those on the Outside Track just get so darned motivated.

[HazyHusky420]

You know why so many people go to college? So they can do something they hate for the rest of their lives for money.

Do something you're good at and enjoy. Don't do it for the sake of money. You won't be happy if you don't, unless you're a shallow materialistic prick who worries about status which unfortunately most people are.

[WilliamShrugged]

Im 22 and i just couldn't deal paying(overpriced imo) for something that had me take a bunch classes i didn't want for a degree. Sometimes i feel that im not going to go anywhere. Currently i work part time for minimum wage, but i save my money so im easily able to survive. I still love to learn about history, economics, and money. I just do it cheaper(mises academy). I do have a hard work effort. Im just not really positive where things will go down the road. I don't support the action our military is doing so i won't join, and the cost of college is unbearable(won't take grant money or go in debt for loans either). I hope that the knowledge i optain thanks to Mises institute will one day help. :)

[BlackTerrel]

Yeah, they generally do better after they spend 20 years paying off the loans they took to get that education.

Yeah if you take 20 years to pay off your student loans probably not a good investment.

There are so many colleges it is hard to generalize. Bad institution for a lot of money not worth it. Good institution for less money generally worth it. Everyone needs to do their own math.

I am pretty sure Ron and Rand are much better off having gone to school. I would put myself in the same category even though I still have debt and final judgement on that won't be for another 5-10 years at least.

[heavenlyboy34]

You know why so many people go to college? So they can do something they hate for the rest of their lives for money.

Do something you're good at and enjoy. Don't do it for the sake of money. You won't be happy if you don't, unless you're a shallow materialistic prick who worries about status which unfortunately most people are.

That and the heavy subsidization of schools (research grants, etc). Then add in the relatively easy process of getting loans (which tend to be tempting to aspiring young people) and anti-discrimination laws (making a college degree the work-around for employers who would otherwise just administer IQ tests)-all thanks to gov'ment intervention/meddling-and you see how fucked up the whole thing became in a relatively short amount of time. I agree with the other posters-only go to study something you enjoy. Many times that thing you enjoy can be better learned through a trade school or apprenticeship. Community colleges/junior colleges are a great value too.

[juvanya]

This is what Ive been thinking since September-ish. I have three semesters left and Im quite torn on which way to go. I could save $38,000, but I would be foregoing something that Im close to getting and may mean something. I have ideas for businesses, but I still need a runway to get up there. I run a little business that makes a little money, but its not enough to support me and actually requires me to remain in college. I need a better idea to use outside college...

[DamianTV]

Hard work in the right area and a dose of luck.

Most high school drop outs are not going to be "successful." You are looking at a few exceptions out of the millions.

Wins Thread.

College is a way for stupid people to excel in life, and we have a nearly unlimited supply of stupid people. Its also a way to make taking advantage of stupid people profitable.

(not saying that people that go to college are stupid, but stupid people do go to college)

[specsaregood]

But how come these guys are more successful than college graduates or PhDs?
Chances are these people would have succeeded, regardless of whether they went to college or not.

[MelissaWV]

You can still have gone to school and be self made.

Yes, you'll just start out later in the game, probably in debt, and won't have needed the college degree (first bad business decision?).

:D

[acptulsa]

I believe the bottom line is, people who go to college and then work for someone else know how to screw employees, cheat on taxes and come up with stupid advertising campaigns. Those who don't go to college and then work for someone else learn how to make and sell the useful widgets.

Now, which one learns something he or she can use later?

[Dr.3D]

But how come these guys are more successful than college graduates or PhDs?

Possibly because nobody told them they had to think inside of the box.

[heavenlyboy34]

This is what Ive been thinking since September-ish. I have three semesters left and Im quite torn on which way to go. I could save $38,000, but I would be foregoing something that Im close to getting and may mean something. I have ideas for businesses, but I still need a runway to get up there. I run a little business that makes a little money, but its not enough to support me and actually requires me to remain in college. I need a better idea to use outside college...

I don't know what you specialize in, but perhaps you could freelance? /suggestion

[acptulsa]

Possibly because nobody told them they had to think inside of the box.

Word. I'm surprised diplomas don't come in boxes, these days.

[DamianTV]

It depends greatly on the type of box. If you are expecting a wooden steel hinged box that houses ones diploma, that person is expecting too much. One only has to look to the cereal isle in their local supermarket.

IE: A Crackerjack Box with a "prize" inside.

[libertarian4321]

Is there a real difference between school or college, and the real world?
Why are the most richest people college and high school dropouts? What made them better than those who thought they believed their teachers would make them more successful?

In my country Sweden. Our legendary billionarie Ingvar Kamprad began as a carpenter and thereafter launched IKEA. Today, he's one of the richest men in the world. This guy didn't even stretch his foot to a college bench.

But the story doesn't end there. Look at this list of billionarie dropouts. Here're the most known people in the world for their huge wallets and scientific breakthroughts:

http://www.pennylicious.com/2006/10/09/billionaire-dropouts/
http://www.retireat21.com/blog/the-most-successful-college-dropouts-in-history

and wikipedia lists them as well,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

I don't somehow discredit or undermine school or something like that.
But how come these guys are more successful than college graduates or PhDs?

Most of those guys were extremely bright and excellent students (more than a few of them "dropped out" of Harvard and other Ivies, so these were not poor students).

They were brilliant, highly driven guys who started businesses while in college and had no need to complete college.

That ain't the same thing as some dumb ass who is too lazy or too stupid to finish school- which is what most drop outs are.

If you are at Harvard or Stanford or MIT and start a business that takes off, by all means feel free to drop out, but if you are one of those looking to drop out because you don't want to do the work and justify it by thinking you can succeed because Bill Gates succeeded without a degree, you are likely to fail.

For every drop out who started a billion dollar tech company, there are thousands living in their mother's basement...

[libertarian4321]

Yeah, they generally do better after they spend 20 years paying off the loans they took to get that education.

You have to remember that those who get good jobs after college (assuming you took a serious major and weren't just piddling around for 4 years) will pay only a tiny percentage of their income paying off student loans.

You get a 4-year engineering degree, you make $80,000 a year. You get a 2-year engineering technician degree, you make $45k per year. You get a HS diploma, you can get a "helper" job, making $30k per year with experience. That college degree is worth an extra $50k per year- that will eat up college loan payments pretty quickly- even if you run up $150k in loans.

On the other hand, if you go to school for four years, blow through $150k, and earn a degree in Women's studies or Art Appreciation or something else completely useless and end up working at Wal mart, you're an idiot who will probably be in debt forever.

[libertarian4321]

BTW, to say "many dropouts are successful" is absurd. Just because you have a couple of dozen very successful examples doesn't make it "many" given that hundreds of thousands drop out every year.

That's like saying "dropouts are successful" because John Wall and Greg Oden and a few dozen more college dropouts manage to make it to the NBA, while neglecting the thousands of their peers who drop out and utterly fail.

[MelissaWV]

You have to remember that those who get good jobs after college (assuming you took a serious major and weren't just piddling around for 4 years) will pay only a tiny percentage of their income paying off student loans.

You get a 4-year engineering degree, you make $80,000 a year. You get a 2-year engineering technician degree, you make $45k per year. You get a HS diploma, you can get a "helper" job, making $30k per year with experience. That college degree is worth an extra $50k per year- that will eat up college loan payments pretty quickly- even if you run up $150k in loans.

On the other hand, if you go to school for four years, blow through $150k, and earn a degree in Women's studies or Art Appreciation or something else completely useless and end up working at Wal mart, you're an idiot who will probably be in debt forever.

I agree with both of your posts to an extent but this one will suffice to quote. A lot of people are getting "useless" degrees these days. You don't even have to go to the extreme of Women's Studies; Business degrees are given out like candy and are worse because they pretend to be useful, but often aren't.

The figures you posted are true to a certain extent. If that engineer can find a job, and doesn't add to his/her debt, you are right that they'll wipe out the debt super fast. Unfortunately that's also the time of one's life that many people get their first home, find a spouse, maybe even have a kid. It's time for that "first car" to get replaced, too, more often than not. Credit cards show up in the mail and beg to be swiped through machines in order to buy business-casual, work-appropriate clothing. There are pitfalls there which college kiddos can fall into and wind up in far more debt than they bargained for. All of that said, the same calamaties befall the "HS-only" ones, but we just wind up footing the bill for their kids.

The "HS-only" group is not doomed to make $30k/year in a helper job, but it takes more moxie and motivation to make it with just that level of education. Most jobs are not going to have much confidence in your competence, and the higher up the income brackets you go, the less likely that someone is going to hire you with just a GED or HS diploma. The options, then, are to accept those lower jobs, latch on to the Government teat, or make your own way. When you're pushed to just those options, the ones who choose that last path and are successful at it are the exceptions that make it all very tempting.

With the "college degree" crowd, you are not as likely to be pushed into that sort of selection. You're probably going to find that job that's middle of the road or so for your profession, and you'll go through the paces there (as you did in college) and be marginally successful (or drown in debt; the economy is set up for that).

[Working Poor]

the main reason is some people do not need to be taught how to think and going somewhere to be taught how to do it is a waste of time, money and, resources.

[newbitech]

The people who invented college and university didn't have college and university to drop out from. What made those people successful? Was it even possible to succeed without this "higher" education BEFORE it was invented?

Education is a form of information and if humans were truly smart, they'd make information free, and keep it free.