[Fox] 4 Detroit Police Officers Shot at Precinct, Cops Say

[GunnyFreedom]

4 Detroit Police Officers Shot at Precinct, Cops Say
Published January 23, 2011

DETROIT -- A gunman opened fire inside a Detroit police precinct Sunday, wounding four officers including a commander before police shot and killed him, authorities said.
Police Chief Ralph Godbee said along with the commander, two sergeants and an officer were wounded, but none appeared to have life threatening injuries.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/23/detroit-police-department-respond-sto-precinct-shooting-reports/#ixzz1Bv9P3jkH


Violence is tragic and deplorable, but is the predictable result of government and police forces dehumanizing our own citizens. Joe Stack, the Giffords shooting, and this latest assault is not the result of political rhetoric, but of political reality. The war on terror has police treating every American citizen as a dangerous suspect, the war on drugs has the police treating every American as a violent criminal, and the dawning reality of "dial 9-11 and die" where police (trained under the new militaristic force continuum being disseminated by DHS Fusion Centers) will continue to boil the pressure cooker until society itself explodes.

It is long past time to dial back the Orwellian police state that we are building up around ourselves before we end up like gangs of Somali warlords. We can't do that until the American people wake up and realize that Government is not the answer. If we truly want peace, and an end to the senseless violence, then we must be the answer that we seek.

[college4life]

Glen I love your idealism but as the economy gets worse more people will go to the government for "help."

It will get much much worse before it ever gets any better

[GunnyFreedom]

Glen I love your idealism but as the economy gets worse more people will go to the government for "help."

It will get much much worse before it ever gets any better

Indeed, the point is that the very people who claim the moral high ground - authoritarians with their wars on everything and everyone - are the ones creating the warlike environment in which people are dying. Think about it: Waco and Ruby Ridge were the direct results of the 'war on guns' any way you slice it, and innocent people died.

Innocent people are still dying in America today in violent encounters, and it all stems back to an authoritarian government robbing the citizens of liberty and freedom. The blood is on the hands of the citizens and voters who approve of such unamerican garbage, and sit placidly (or even enthusiastically) by in approval as we drive deeper into tyranny.

Even if it is not in this temporal world, there will come a reckoning. Justice has a funny way of coming due - if not here and now than at the gates of St Peter. So many Christians who believe they are in good standing will come to learn that they have stood together as the enemies of God, and there will be much weeping, gnashing of teeth, ashes and sackcloth.

Too many people who think they are doing God a favor are really only seeing to their own interest in jailing and killing any undesirable they encounter. Do they really think God will turn a blind eye to this hypocrisy?

The environment of violence that is surrounding us today is being created by those who advocate for the authoritarian State and it's wars on everything and everyone. The very people who are decrying the climate of violence and domestic warfare, are the ones who are pushing the violence and domestic warfare. It is a pressure cooker without a relief valve, and as the immutable laws of physics predict -- if nothing changes this can only get far, far worse.

[angelatc]

I'm not sure this was anything more than suicide by cop. I don't think it had too much to do with anything else, really.

[JK/SEA]

More Cops shot...

http://www.king5.com/news/Shots-fired-at-Port-Orchard-Wal-Mart-114458169.html

[mczerone]

Glen I love your idealism but as the economy gets worse more people will go to the government for "help."

It will get much much worse before it ever gets any better

Govt: Trying and amending solutions until they are so bad the citizens revolt

Market: Favors whoever is the best provider of services in the eyes of consumers, and allows trial and error to develop new direction for solutions to problems, with the costs of the errors falling to those who tried them. But as time progresses so does the quality.

[Anti Federalist]

Wow...

If I could give +100 rep I would.

Well said Gunny, well said.


Violence is tragic and deplorable, but is the predictable result of government and police forces dehumanizing our own citizens. Joe Stack, the Giffords shooting, and this latest assault is not the result of political rhetoric, but of political reality. The war on terror has police treating every American citizen as a dangerous suspect, the war on drugs has the police treating every American as a violent criminal, and the dawning reality of "dial 9-11 and die" where police (trained under the new militaristic force continuum being disseminated by DHS Fusion Centers) will continue to boil the pressure cooker until society itself explodes.

It is long past time to dial back the Orwellian police state that we are building up around ourselves before we end up like gangs of Somali warlords. We can't do that until the American people wake up and realize that Government is not the answer. If we truly want peace, and an end to the senseless violence, then we must be the answer that we seek.


Indeed, the point is that the very people who claim the moral high ground - authoritarians with their wars on everything and everyone - are the ones creating the warlike environment in which people are dying. Think about it: Waco and Ruby Ridge were the direct results of the 'war on guns' any way you slice it, and innocent people died.

Innocent people are still dying in America today in violent encounters, and it all stems back to an authoritarian government robbing the citizens of liberty and freedom. The blood is on the hands of the citizens and voters who approve of such unamerican garbage, and sit placidly (or even enthusiastically) by in approval as we drive deeper into tyranny.

Even if it is not in this temporal world, there will come a reckoning. Justice has a funny way of coming due - if not here and now than at the gates of St Peter. So many Christians who believe they are in good standing will come to learn that they have stood together as the enemies of God, and there will be much weeping, gnashing of teeth, ashes and sackcloth.

Too many people who think they are doing God a favor are really only seeing to their own interest in jailing and killing any undesirable they encounter. Do they really think God will turn a blind eye to this hypocrisy?

The environment of violence that is surrounding us today is being created by those who advocate for the authoritarian State and it's wars on everything and everyone. The very people who are decrying the climate of violence and domestic warfare, are the ones who are pushing the violence and domestic warfare. It is a pressure cooker without a relief valve, and as the immutable laws of physics predict -- if nothing changes this can only get far, far worse.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm not sure this was anything more than suicide by cop. I don't think it had too much to do with anything else, really.

It doesn't have to be anything more than 'suicide by cop' in order to be the direct result of the authoritarian pressure cooker creating the type of environment wherein this becomes a more regular occurrence. If you get 50 different incidents, they may all have completely disparate, seemingly unconnected causation, but the high pressure environment drives already unstable people to loose their wits and go postal.

If nothing changes, I expect to see an exponential increase in apparently random violence. We are at the 'bottom' of the curve right now, so the rate expansion will not be overtly obvious. as the curve builds, however, watch out.

Obviously, I am not advocating for this, or any other form of violence, indeed, I am begging, pleading with society to take the steps necessary to curtail it. The problem is that this is the predictable result of our "war on everything" mentality, and unless we back down from the authoratarian tyrannical government state of affairs, it can only get worse. :(

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not sure this was anything more than suicide by cop. I don't think it had too much to do with anything else, really.

Maybe the shooter was related to this little girl?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?247835-More-cop-coverup-Detroit-girl-was-shot-in-the-head-NOT-the-neck

[GunnyFreedom]

Maybe the shooter was related to this little girl?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?247835-More-cop-coverup-Detroit-girl-was-shot-in-the-head-NOT-the-neck

I wouldn't surprise me -- it seems they are being awfully tight-lipped about the identity of the shooter. They normally aren't.

[Philhelm]

At this point, it's impossible to discern whether this was suicide by cop or a personal vendetta. Perhaps it was a suicide by cop scenario, but the gunman could have achieved that without injuring any cops. He obviously wanted to harm them though. Whatever the case may be, I would be willing to bet that this was a form of blowback, at least to some extent. If not a personal vengeance scenario, the individual may have simply been angered at the police state, despite his personal reasons for wishing to die.

Either way, I have no doubt that there will be an increase in individuals murdering cops, especially if things get worse. Also, let's not assume that all such individuals are "lone nuts" or what have you. I think it's dangerous and short-sighted to assume that all murderers are necessarily "crazy." Perhaps driven over the edge, but not necessarily crazy. After all, there are plenty of wrongful shootings on behalf of the police. It wouldn't surprise me if angry fathers and such decided to take justice into their own hands. The cure to this, of course, is liberty.

Edit: It's important for the media to push the crazy angle everytime an act of violence from a mundane occurs. If they ever provided a reason for such an act, be it just or not, it would work against TPTB. I'm not speaking of indiscriminate, mass shootings and such; however, I find it odd that we never seem to hear of any stories in which a gunman had targeted specific individuals in an outright revenge, or were-guild scenario.

[BenIsForRon]

I'm not sure this was anything more than suicide by cop. I don't think it had too much to do with anything else, really.

For real.

Glen I hope you don't say shit like this to your colleagues in Raleigh. They're going to think you're off your rocker. Because you kind of are if you think this or especially the Giffords shooting had anything to do with oppressive government. Both incidents have more to do with mental illness and the individuals not getting treatment or support.

[nobody's_hero]

I could have asked any 5 people what their reaction was to the Giffords shooting, and 4 of them would have had no real opinion on the matter, or at the very least, they would have said they felt bad for the 9-year old who was targeted and died as a result.

Overall, people just really don't care, IMO. I guess that's better than reacting before they've taken the time to think about what their response should be. It is what it is, I suppose.

[Pericles]

Maybe the shooter was related to this little girl?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?247835-More-cop-coverup-Detroit-girl-was-shot-in-the-head-NOT-the-neck

That would not surprise me. If so, it marks the start of the hunted turning the tables on the hunters, which will be a new experience for those who formerly felt themselves rather secure.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

For real.

Glen I hope you don't say shit like this to your colleagues in Raleigh. They're going to think you're off your rocker. Because you kind of are if you think this or especially the Giffords shooting had anything to do with oppressive government. Both incidents have more to do with mental illness and the individuals not getting treatment or support.

I cannot speak for the shooters in such scenario's....

But, to deny even the possibility that this was blowback for our burgeoning police state...

Usually people snap for a reason. I think it would be safe to say, at least in the case of Joe Stack, it was blowback in response to government policies.

You should read his letter if you have not already.

http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-insane-manifesto-2010-2

It's imperative that we challenge these policies with words, before some "loony" challenges these policies with violence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQrwKr_b4Lg

[CountryboyRonPaul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R4ppEADvm4

[pcosmar]

For real.

Both incidents have more to do with mental illness and the individuals not getting treatment or support.
The labelling of dissent — politics and psychiatry behind the Great Wall
http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/26/12/443
PSYCHIATRY AND POLITICAL DISSENT
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2874%2991569-4/fulltext

Naw, they wouldn't. :rolleyes:

[fisharmor]

Glen I hope you don't say shit like this to your colleagues in Raleigh. They're going to think you're off your rocker. Because you kind of are if you think this or especially the Giffords shooting had anything to do with oppressive government. Both incidents have more to do with mental illness and the individuals not getting treatment or support.

Well, let me put a slightly different light on it.


I could have asked any 5 people what their reaction was to the Giffords shooting, and 4 of them would have had no real opinion on the matter, or at the very least, they would have said they felt bad for the 9-year old who was targeted and died as a result.

Well, if you ask me specifically about the four officers getting gunned down, I have an utter lack of concern for Detroit police.

Some years ago there was a suicide-by-cop in Fairfax, VA.
I didn't yawn back then - I was concerned that such a thing happened.

Today, I officially don't give a shit about the fact that Detroit cops are getting gunned down.
I ain't cheering. I just don't care.

This is a problem they created. They dehumanized their serfs, and now serfs the world over read things like this and have no reaction.

They're not going to make us serfs care again by continuing their regimen of dehumanization.
As stated, they need to reverse course.
Read the damned tea leaves, already. There are a lot more ants out there, and they're getting ideas.
Nobody wants a showdown.
But if it comes, the cops have pretty much decided they don't want any friends in that scenario.

[mczerone]

...
But if it comes, the cops have pretty much decided they don't want any friends in that scenario.

But when it comes, watch out for them to jump ship and pretend they were on our side all along:
Police Thugs Claim They’re Here to “Serve” (http://blog.mises.org/15395/former-thugs-claim-they%e2%80%99re-here-to-%e2%80%9cserve%e2%80%9d/)

[Brian4Liberty]

The Giffords shooting is probably not an accurate analogy to mix in with this incident. The Giffords shooting has been far too politicized by all sides. We don't want to be collectivist and lump all shootings together. Each is an individual situation.

[angelatc]

It doesn't have to be anything more than 'suicide by cop' in order to be the direct result of the authoritarian pressure cooker creating the type of environment wherein this becomes a more regular occurrence. If you get 50 different incidents, they may all have completely disparate, seemingly unconnected causation, but the high pressure environment drives already unstable people to loose their wits and go postal.

If nothing changes, I expect to see an exponential increase in apparently random violence. We are at the 'bottom' of the curve right now, so the rate expansion will not be overtly obvious. as the curve builds, however, watch out.

Obviously, I am not advocating for this, or any other form of violence, indeed, I am begging, pleading with society to take the steps necessary to curtail it. The problem is that this is the predictable result of our "war on everything" mentality, and unless we back down from the authoratarian tyrannical government state of affairs, it can only get worse. :(

I disagree. Suicide isn't something that comes from anything except mental illness. I'm not a big fan of blaming the victim, and while I'm not a fan of the police, the assertion that they somehow had something to do with it isn't fair.

This is as much hyperbole as the aftermath of the Loughner shooting.

[angelatc]

The Giffords shooting is probably not an accurate analogy to mix in with this incident. The Giffords shooting has been far too politicized by all sides. We don't want to be collectivist and lump all shootings together. Each is an individual situation.

But Glen did the same thing the media did. He jumped to a conclusion before the bodies were even cold.


Chief Ralph Godbee identified the shooter as 38-year-old Lamar D. Moore of Detroit, but said he couldn't speculate about a motive in Sunday's shooting at the 6th precinct.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/ap_on_re_us/us_detroit_police_shooting

Apparently a relative of his was scheduled to start a trial for a double-homicide, but it's unclear if that was related.

[Anti Federalist]

For real.

Glen I hope you don't say shit like this to your colleagues in Raleigh. They're going to think you're off your rocker. Because you kind of are if you think this or especially the Giffords shooting had anything to do with oppressive government. Both incidents have more to do with mental illness and the individuals not getting treatment or support.

You said this, in the thread WRT the Giffords shooting:


I'll just say this to pcosmar and anti-fed and be done with it.

Just put yourself in the shoes of an Arab teenager in the middle east who just saw a bomb get dropped on his neighbor's house. What is he thinking?

You simply can't compare that to what happens inside a clinically insane man's head. It's a separate fucking thing.

What happened here was not a result of government tyranny, it was lack of proper support from this person's family and friends as he grew up.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275073-Shooter-22-Year-Old-Jared-Laughner&p=3057459&viewfull=1#post3057459

Now, Loughner's motives still remain a topic of speculation, I happen to agree with you that, more likely than not, he is clinically insane and there is nothing more to it than that. (Other than the question of why he went insane.)

However, you and I have no idea what went on in the mind of this person that shot up the cop shop.

Let's assume for a second that we do: let's assume that this man was, let's say, the uncle of Aiyana Stanley-Jones (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?247835-More-cop-coverup-Detroit-girl-was-shot-in-the-head-NOT-the-neck), who had the top of her head blown away, from shots fired outside the house, as Detroit cops raided the wrong house with guns blazing and have been stonewalling and footdragging justice since then.

Now, how is that any different, conceptually, from what you posited in your previous post?

Secondly, I imagine Gunny's colleagues in Raleigh follow what he writes here.

Posting that shows once again that Gunny is the real deal, courageous in speaking his mind, and tireless in his efforts for freedom, not running for office to schmooze, schmaltz and "get along".

Frederick Douglass once commented on John Brown, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said words to effect that John Brown's effort for the slaves was as a shining sun compared to his being a candle. "I (Douglass) could live for the slaves. John Brown could die for them."

That's Gunny's level of commitment to this cause compared to mine (and I dare say 99 percent of the rest of here).

I can blarg about issues, try to bring information to the forefront and throw some money around when I can.

Gunny got out and is living this, 24/7, at great personal expense.

I think he's earned the right to say what he thinks.

[Philhelm]

I disagree. Suicide isn't something that comes from anything except mental illness.

I don't buy that, despite what modern society and self-proclaimed experts say. There are far, far too many examples in history of suicide being culturally acceptable, and at times, even a matter of honor. Are all acts outside of modern social norms the result of chemical imbalance or a mental disorder? Is it so far-fetched to believe that sometimes there are logical, albeit extreme, reasons for one to sacrifice all? There's a big difference between someone shooting up a mall and committing suicide, and someone who falls on a shortsword after having his Legions defeated in battle.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't buy that, despite what modern society and self-proclaimed experts say. There are far, far too many examples in history of suicide being culturally acceptable, and at times, even a matter of honor. Are all acts outside of modern social norms the result of chemical imbalance or a mental disorder? Is it so far-fetched to believe that sometimes there are logical, albeit extreme, reasons for one to sacrifice all? There's a big difference between someone shooting up a mall and committing suicide, and someone who falls on a shortsword after having his Legions defeated in battle.

Or flying on the Divine Wind or strapping an IED to their chest.

Americans, soft and spoiled, cannot fathom in their minds a situation so desperate that you would willingly sacrifice yourself for a "higher cause", whatever that may be.

[Philhelm]

Or flying on the Divine Wind or strapping an IED to their chest.

Americans, soft and spoiled, cannot fathom in their minds a situation so desperate that you would willingly sacrifice yourself for a "higher cause", whatever that may be.

I agree completely. Initially, I was going to make a short list, which had included Kamikaze and suicide bombers, but had decided not to. The samurai can be added to that list. You know, those mentally ill swordsmen that had an extreme reverance for loyalty to their feudal lord? Hell, Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" was pretty much just about Roman generals impaling themselves on shortswords. I don't remember why they did it...something about that archaic honor thing. While "Julius Caesar" was a work of fiction, there are countless instances of suicide being viewed as a rational decision in both history and literature (except for today of course).

While I've always found psychology to be fascinating, it worries me that people take such things as the truth, without any critical analysis. Psychology has historically been used to oppress dissent, and to believe that it wouldn't (or doesn't) happen in today's modern, "enlightened" world is a dangerous mistake. In addition, it bothers me when extreme acts are dismissed as mental illness offhand. To do so denies the chance to discern whether or not there was a moral component (good vs. evil) or a reason (perhaps a logical reason, given the context) behind the act. I do believe that there are people that are mentally ill, but I think that term is used way, way too much, without much thought behind the act itself. A suicide bomber killing himself because the sky is blue, or a rabbit told him to do it, is nuts. A suicide bomber killing himself because his enemy had killed his family, destroyed his house, and kicked his dog is another matter.

[Pericles]

Or flying on the Divine Wind or strapping an IED to their chest.

Americans, soft and spoiled, cannot fathom in their minds a situation so desperate that you would willingly sacrifice yourself for a "higher cause", whatever that may be.
Look at how many military medals are awarded for just that reason. When you believe in something more important than yourself, you have an advantage over those who believe in nothing but themselves.

[angelatc]

I don't buy that, despite what modern society and self-proclaimed experts say. There are far, far too many examples in history of suicide being culturally acceptable, and at times, even a matter of honor. Are all acts outside of modern social norms the result of chemical imbalance or a mental disorder? Is it so far-fetched to believe that sometimes there are logical, albeit extreme, reasons for one to sacrifice all? There's a big difference between someone shooting up a mall and committing suicide, and someone who falls on a shortsword after having his Legions defeated in battle.

Lots of things were culturally acceptable that are regarded as flat out wrong now. Evolving means having to give up some of the old beliefs.

I would go so far as to say that a warrior who undertakes a suicide mission, or someone who ends their own life in order to avoid an almost certain agonizing death probably isn't mentally ill in the sense I was discussing. But killing yourself because you're losing the war? That's not bravado.

[fisharmor]

I agree completely. Initially, I was going to make a short list, which had included Kamikaze and suicide bombers, but had decided not to. The samurai can be added to that list.
We're not even necessarily discussing suicide, either - we could be discussing fighting a battle you know you're going to lose.
History is replete with examples of people fighting despite standing a good chance of losing.
In each of those cases, we identify with the underdog in the fight, and secretly admire their courage for fighting despite knowing they were going to lose.
Once you remove the shock value of gunning down cops somehow (an intentional bullet to the head of a 7 year old girl does nicely), it opens up the possibility of sympathizing with the "nutcase" who "committed suicide" - the fact that he was doomed from the start stops being germane.


While I've always found psychology to be fascinating, it worries me that people take such things as the truth, without any critical analysis. Psychology has historically been used to oppress dissent, and to believe that it wouldn't (or doesn't) happen in today's modern, "enlightened" world is a dangerous mistake. In addition, it bothers me when extreme acts are dismissed as mental illness offhand. To do so denies the chance to discern whether or not there was a moral component (good vs. evil) or a reason (perhaps a logical reason, given the context) behind the act. I do believe that there are people that are mentally ill, but I think that term is used way, way too much, without much thought behind the act itself. A suicide bomber killing himself because the sky is blue, or a rabbit told him to do it, is nuts. A suicide bomber killing himself because his enemy had killed his family, destroyed his house, and kicked his dog is another matter.

+rep.



I would go so far as to say that a warrior who undertakes a suicide mission, or someone who ends their own life in order to avoid an almost certain agonizing death probably isn't mentally ill in the sense I was discussing. But killing yourself because you're losing the war? That's not bravado.

Right, I agree that honorable suicide is stupid. However, I don't think we've established that this case was suicide.

[Anti Federalist]

Lots of things were culturally acceptable that are regarded as flat out wrong now. Evolving means having to give up some of the old beliefs.

Like individual liberty and free use of your property?

That is the same argument being used by the global environmental controllers.

"Freedom cannot be sustained, we've evolved from the point where we thought you had a right to do whatever you want. In our interconnected global world, everything you do has some effect on somebody else, therefore we must regulate for the good of all."

I'm not at all comfortable with this idea that the passage of time will render some immutable truths obsolete.

[Anti Federalist]

I agree completely. Initially, I was going to make a short list, which had included Kamikaze and suicide bombers, but had decided not to. The samurai can be added to that list. You know, those mentally ill swordsmen that had an extreme reverance for loyalty to their feudal lord? Hell, Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" was pretty much just about Roman generals impaling themselves on shortswords. I don't remember why they did it...something about that archaic honor thing. While "Julius Caesar" was a work of fiction, there are countless instances of suicide being viewed as a rational decision in both history and literature (except for today of course).

While I've always found psychology to be fascinating, it worries me that people take such things as the truth, without any critical analysis. Psychology has historically been used to oppress dissent, and to believe that it wouldn't (or doesn't) happen in today's modern, "enlightened" world is a dangerous mistake. In addition, it bothers me when extreme acts are dismissed as mental illness offhand. To do so denies the chance to discern whether or not there was a moral component (good vs. evil) or a reason (perhaps a logical reason, given the context) behind the act. I do believe that there are people that are mentally ill, but I think that term is used way, way too much, without much thought behind the act itself. A suicide bomber killing himself because the sky is blue, or a rabbit told him to do it, is nuts. A suicide bomber killing himself because his enemy had killed his family, destroyed his house, and kicked his dog is another matter.

Agreed with fish, +rep

[Anti Federalist]

Look at how many military medals are awarded for just that reason. When you believe in something more important than yourself, you have an advantage over those who believe in nothing but themselves.

Exactly.

Didn't the latest CMoH recipient do the exact same thing IIRC?

Yup.

http://www.cmohs.org/recent-recipients.php

[Philhelm]

I was mostly responding to this statement initially:

Suicide isn't something that comes from anything except mental illness.
Suicide can definitely be the result of mental illness, but my argument is that is not always the case. While it's a taboo in Western culture for the most part, there were cultures that have viewed it in a different light, as I had stated. It would follow that such societal norms of the past were not the result of mental illness.


Lots of things were culturally acceptable that are regarded as flat out wrong now. Evolving means having to give up some of the old beliefs.
Cultures and beliefs change, but the issue at hand isn't about what is right or wrong; it's about whether or not the societal norms of previous cultures were the result of mental illness and chemical imbalances. If suicides of the past were not the result of mental illness, then I believe it would be incorrect to assume that every suicide of today is the result of mental illness.


I would go so far as to say that a warrior who undertakes a suicide mission, or someone who ends their own life in order to avoid an almost certain agonizing death probably isn't mentally ill in the sense I was discussing. But killing yourself because you're losing the war? That's not bravado.
In some instances, losing a war would have been a cause of great shame. For some people, perhaps the shame of dishonor is a worse fate than death. Obviously, most people don't feel that way, but if an individual does feel that way, then given the underlying beliefs of such a person, suicide could be a logical outcome, as the suicidal ideation did not appear in a vacuum, and the decision would fall in line with the individual's strongly held beliefs. Allegedly, suicide rates amongst homosexuals is higher than that of heterosexuals. Is this because of higher instances of mental illness amongst homosexuals, or is the shame some of them feel, due to societal pressure, the motivator? Would a happy pill change the fact that such an individual may be shamed by society? If not, then can chemical imbalance or mental illness truly be the culprit?

[Freedom 4 all]

Any word on the identity of the shooter yet?

[angelatc]

Any word on the identity of the shooter yet?

Yeah, it's posted up there somewheres. The local news just reported that apparently the guy had a girl trapped in his house for about a week. While he was out somewhere, she escaped to a neighbor's wearing only her underwear, screaming and crying. The guy came home and saw his house surrounded by the police, so he went to the precinct and opened fire.

Suicide by cop.

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, it's posted up there somewheres. The local news just reported that apparently the guy had a girl trapped in his house for about a week. While he was out somewhere, she escaped to a neighbor's wearing only her underwear, screaming and crying. The guy came home and saw his house surrounded by the police, so he went to the precinct and opened fire.

Suicide by cop.

As of an hour ago, Detroit Free Press is reporting this:

— Detroit Police Chief Ralph Godbee on Monday said police were investigating a suspect in the shooting at a police precinct in connection to the rape of a young girl before the shooting. "We were investigating whether he was involved in another crime," Godbee said, adding that police had been to a home connected with Moore prior to the shooting.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110124/METRO01/101240375/Detroit-police-precinct-reopens-after-shooting#ixzz1C1Q9cVf7

They are also reporting that his brother was just convicted of murder.

[Brian4Liberty]

Yeah, it's posted up there somewheres. The local news just reported that apparently the guy had a girl trapped in his house for about a week. While he was out somewhere, she escaped to a neighbor's wearing only her underwear, screaming and crying. The guy came home and saw his house surrounded by the police, so he went to the precinct and opened fire.

Suicide by cop.

That appears to be the story. The girl escaped and he knew he would be going away for a long time...


(CNN) -- Before a man went on a shooting rampage inside a Detroit police station, he kidnapped and sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl who escaped hours before the police attack, authorities confirmed Sunday.

Lamar Deshea Moore, 38, who was mortally wounded by police, wounded four officers January 23.

Police say Moore kidnapped the runaway girl about 10 days before, police Sgt. Eren Stephens told CNN.

"The assault case is closed," said the spokeswoman. "She was kidnapped, held hostage, sexually assaulted and escaped."
...
Moore held the girl against her will in the basement of his home, said Stephens, adding the victim also was handcuffed to a toilet. The unidentified girl escaped in her underwear hours before Moore's attack, police said.

"She was still wearing the handcuffs" when she rushed to a neighborhood resident who contacted police, Stephens said.

Investigators say police had surrounded Moore's empty house while they were waiting for a search warrant to enter the home. At the same time, Moore walked into the precinct and started his shooting rampage, they said.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/30/michigan.shooting/

[Brian4Liberty]

Video at this link. Despite all of the media and left-wing hype and paranoia about pistols, never bring a pistol to a shotgun fight...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/30/michigan.shooting/

[Anti Federalist]

A genuine bad guy.

I'll wager with a rap sheet a million miles long, like the fellow arrested for having "explosives" in MI the other day.

Had a record of felony kidnapping, skyjacking and terrorism going back to the 1970s.

"You'll never take me alive, coppers!!"

Ref: the "popcorn" analogy.

[Anti Federalist]

Video at this link. Despite all of the media and left-wing hype and paranoia about pistols, never bring a pistol to a shotgun fight...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/30/michigan.shooting/

A pistol is only good for fighting your way back to your battle rifle.

[AFPVet]

A pistol is only good for fighting your way back to your battle rifle.

I just wish that the cops in that station had a couple of AR's. It appeared that the subject wore body armor from the video. You can never know in this age.... I believe the new M9 AFQC is two COM and one in the head IIRC.

[Brian4Liberty]

I just wish that the cops in that station had a couple of AR's. It appeared that the subject wore body armor from the video. You can never know in this age.... I believe the new M9 AFQC is two COM and one in the head IIRC.

My impression of the "point blank" face to face firing was that the Officer with the pistol missed. It's quite common with pistols, even from 2 feet away. I believe a report said that it was one of the other officers who shot him...

[AFPVet]

My impression of the "point blank" face to face firing was that the Officer with the pistol missed. It's quite common with pistols, even from 2 feet away. I believe a report said that it was one of the other officers who shot him...

Hmm... if that's true, then they need to do some serious remedial stress fire training.

[Brian4Liberty]

Hmm... if that's true, then they need to do some serious remedial stress fire training.

We had a story many years ago my area. Five off-duty Police got in altercation with three guys in a bar. They went outside to "discuss" the matter. One of the three non-cops pulled out a pistol. All five of the officers pulled out their concealed pistols and emptied the clips, point blank. Only one shot hit one of the three guys, and it happened to hit him in the belt buckle, so it didn't penetrate... don't know if you can really practice firing under adrenaline.

[AFPVet]

We had a story many years ago my area. Five off-duty Police got in altercation with three guys in a bar. They went outside to "discuss" the matter. One of the three non-cops pulled out a pistol. All five of the officers pulled out their concealed pistols and emptied the clips, point blank. Only one shot hit one of the three guys, and it happened to hit him in the belt buckle, so it didn't penetrate... don't know if you can really practice firing under adrenaline.

Wow! Well, we did stress fire, but then again, no one was shooting us with real bullets—simunitions are close though. Actually, the only real way you can get the best stress fire training is in active combat.

I guess anything can happen in a gunfight. The best thing you can do is train as much as you can. The thing with point blank shooting, is the possibility of too much 'dancing'. Blending some kicks into these situations may help as well.