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bobbyw24
01-19-2011, 06:35 AM
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley told a church crowd just moments into his new administration that those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior are not his brothers and sisters, shocking some critics who questioned Tuesday whether he can be fair to non-Christians.

"Anybody here today who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I'm telling you, you're not my brother and you're not my sister, and I want to be your brother," Bentley said Monday, his inauguration day, according to The Birmingham News.

The Anti-Defamation League on Tuesday called Bentley's remarks shocking.

"His comments are not only offensive, but also raise serious questions as to whether non-Christians can expect to receive equal treatment during his tenure as governor," said Bill Nigut, the ADL's regional director.

Read more

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/AlabamaGovernorChristians/2011/01/19/id/383210

TonySutton
01-19-2011, 06:47 AM
I will have to read the whole speech or better yet watch video of it before commenting to harshly one way or the other. I don't necessarily feel such comments in an inaugural speech would be offensive if framed properly. Now if he started every speech/meeting with the same comments, I could see an issue.

Generally I don't have a problem with politicians professing their faith on special occasions. Although I would prefer them to set the example with their daily actions and not so much with their lips.

Edit: nm, I misread and thought he said this in his inauguration speech when in fact he said it at a church. I found his speech on youtube and it sounded pretty good. It was not as libertarian as I would like but it was a very inclusive speech and was focused on job creation. I think he must have said jobs about 25 times or more.

I don't see a problem with him professing his faith the way he did at a church gathering. It is common for speakers to speak to the crowd and I don't really see an issue with the comments he made.

Here is his speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFPMIGmL3c

jmdrake
01-19-2011, 09:17 AM
Tony, I was just about to correct you on the context of the speech when you corrected yourself. :D Content without context is pretext. And the Christian religion doesn't require mistreatment of people who aren't our "brothers in Christ". Quite the contrary. Christians are supposed to be good even to enemies. It's unfortunate that some Christians ignore that part of the gospel and brag about turning Iran into a "glass parking lot". But had the governor made that kind of speech I doubt the ADL would have cared. :(

Yieu
01-19-2011, 10:12 AM
It is rather unpleasant to hear someone say something so intolerant, spiteful and unforgiving toward his religious brothers and sisters who do not identify themselves under the same religious group, especially coming from someone who could use that mentality to oppress non-Christians tyrannically. It does indeed show a very dangerous potential for someone in his position to proclaim such an insult towards all devotees of God who do not identify as Christians, which could bring government actions that favor Christians and oppress non-Christians, which would be a tragedy which crushes liberty.

Rather, a kinder, more loving and reasonable position which comes as a result of our desire to love and serve God, is to acknowledge our religious brothers and sisters who do not identify themselves under the same religious group as the brothers and sisters under God that they are.

I may prefer another term to identify how I worship God, and the methods I use to serve Him, but no one can take away the fact that there is only one God, whether you call yourself Christian or Hindu. All Christians are my brothers and sisters, though some may prefer to personally condemn me to hell instead of recognize a brother under God, but hopefully there are not too many who are that unforgiving.

Bossobass
01-19-2011, 11:35 AM
Intolerant my ass.

In America, you can say whatever the hell you feel like saying. If the citizens of the great state of Alabama find him intolerant or find his speech "offensive", etc., well... that's what elections are supposed to be for.

If I were Governor Bentley, I'd hold a press conference to flip the ADL a quarter and tell them to call someone who gives a damn what they think.

This program of neutering the Governors of this country through FBI "secret" files and Doosh-Bag organizations like the ADL who run around the country (being blatantly abetted by their "brothers" in the media) telling everyone what speech is unacceptable in the USA is nothing more than a program to compromise the power of the states.

Bosso

Yieu
01-19-2011, 02:20 PM
Is it really "neutering the Governors" to point out when they actually do say something that really is bigoted and intolerant, something which could indicate that he plans to rule as a theocratic tyrant, granting the special privileges offered by government largess to some and oppressing others. That does not represent liberty, and we are not bound to defend it.

Sure, they're free to say what they want... but if I was in his state, I'd move because I would feel like a Witch in Salem, or a non-Christian on the brink of the beginnings of the Inquisition, or like any of the groups who were targeted by the nazi regime, because history already tells us what such hate speech can lead to if followed up by actions that tend to follow such divisive words.

So there certainly is the potential for tyranny in the intent behind his words, and yes it could become a real fear. Will it definitely lead to something so terrible? Not necessarily, but the attempt to de-legitimize whole sections of religious peoples in and outside of his State is a spiteful, hateful, warlike position to take up against those he could just as easily love and accept as brothers and sisters just as much as he does Christians.

I would like to think that Ron Paul would be kinder to me than this, rather than the big middle finger Gov. Bentley just gave me and hundreds of thousands of others in the nation.

jmdrake
01-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Intolerant my ass.

In America, you can say whatever the hell you feel like saying. If the citizens of the great state of Alabama find him intolerant or find his speech "offensive", etc., well... that's what elections are supposed to be for.

If I were Governor Bentley, I'd hold a press conference to flip the ADL a quarter and tell them to call someone who gives a damn what they think.

This program of neutering the Governors of this country through FBI "secret" files and Doosh-Bag organizations like the ADL who run around the country (being blatantly abetted by their "brothers" in the media) telling everyone what speech is unacceptable in the USA is nothing more than a program to compromise the power of the states.

Bosso

^This. I find people who are part of the Ron Paul movement part of my political family. (Yes we have squabbles and sometimes I wish some would be disowned). There are people who are part of my political family who aren't part of my religious family and vice versa. I have biological family members who are part of my religious family but none (to my knowledge) that are part of my political family. (Many do respect my views and genuinely like Ron Paul). This governor was merely expressing his views about his religious family and how he wishes other people would join. That's no more bigoted than saying I wish there were more Ron Paul supporters.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 02:39 PM
I wasn't at the speech, so it is difficult to conclude the context in which he was speaking. The question I ask is: What if a newly elected Muslim governor had said the same thing about those who are, and those who are not Muslims; would that be acceptable speech? As long as there isn't a double standard, I have no problem with what anybody says.

Yieu
01-19-2011, 02:40 PM
It did not come off as him saying who his brothers and sisters are, it came off as him saying who he firmly rejects as being his brother or sister, and makes unreasonable conditions to become accepted. He firmly denounces all who worship the same God as him in a slightly different fashion. Maybe I'm reading into it a little because I've seen enough intolerance between religions when it seems to me that there is only one religion: trying to love God. Anyone who wants to love God and especially serve Him are brothers and sisters, but some of them reject each other because they do not understand or accept the subtle differences in the ways that they serve God. My religious family extends beyond just my religion. I would not make a claim that there cannot be someone who has pure devotion for God in any other religion, because I know that is not true. Thus, I cannot help but include them, because I do not believe a particular sect has a monopoly on God -- he decides the terms, not us, so I cannot condemn anyone to hell or deny that their love for God is genuine.

HOLLYWOOD
01-19-2011, 02:51 PM
replace speaker & speech with "PANDER"

I find it hard that government arrests the population if they're caught pandering, yet when government is largest and most frequent abuser, yet approved for a jolly good time. Freedom of Speech, whether politically correct or not, better be allowed, even if it's pandering, and that's all it was in this case. This all turns into a shit storm when it become insensitive to one particular group. Frankly, this country has been turned upside down with all the premeditated "De-Sensitizing and Over-Sensitizing" depending on what group barks the loudest. This whole philosophical shaping on speech is getting revolting and quite hypocritical.

You don't like the current Alabaman politician running the show, vote them out next election or recall, but to turn this into a political Picasso painting does nothing.

nobody's_hero
01-19-2011, 02:58 PM
Somewhat troubling, but my curiousity drifted to why the Anti-Defamation League gets involved in this stuff.

Where's the "defamation" here? Or is someone's skin so thin that you could cut through it with clay?

oyarde
01-19-2011, 03:17 PM
Somewhat troubling, but my curiousity drifted to why the Anti-Defamation League gets involved in this stuff.

Where's the "defamation" here? Or is someone's skin so thin that you could cut through it with clay?

Totally lost about adl as well ..

amy31416
01-19-2011, 03:43 PM
Totally lost about adl as well ..

Desperate attempts to stay relevant, get donations and keep the anti-semitic bogeyman alive so they can stay in business, stay powerful, etc.

oyarde
01-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Desperate attempts to stay relevant, get donations and keep the anti-semitic bogeyman alive so they can stay in business, stay powerful, etc.

You are right , I am sure .

Cowlesy
01-19-2011, 03:58 PM
Somewhat troubling, but my curiousity drifted to why the Anti-Defamation League gets involved in this stuff.

Where's the "defamation" here? Or is someone's skin so thin that you could cut through it with clay?

It's great for fundraising!

YumYum
01-19-2011, 04:03 PM
It's great for fundraising!

Interesting thought. The Governor could demand a 10% tithing.

Yieu
01-19-2011, 04:06 PM
Interesting thought. The Governor could demand a 10% tithing.

Paid only by non-Christians, directly to the State? :(

YumYum
01-19-2011, 04:09 PM
Paid only by non-Christians, directly to the State? :(

No. Non-Christians are exempt. Only the brothers and sisters and family of the good Governor would be obligated to pay the tithing. Isn't being a family member the most awesome experience?

Yieu
01-19-2011, 04:12 PM
No. Non-Christians are exempt. Only the brothers and sisters and family of the good Governor would be obligated to pay the tithing. Isn't being a family member the most awesome experience?

It is a good experience to be accepted as a brother under God. But it seems to me he would be more willing to provide government benefits to Christians and punish non-Christians than the opposite.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 04:16 PM
It is a good experience to be accepted as a brother under God. But it seems to me he would be more willing to provide government benefits to Christians and punish non-Christians than the opposite.

Forgive me. I take things too literal. You are joking...right?

Yieu
01-19-2011, 04:26 PM
Forgive me. I take things too literal. You are joking...right?

Unfortunately, I am not joking, because the tyranny of the majority can be brutal. =\

I wish I was joking, as I do not like negativity, and do not mean to ruffle feathers or upset anyone. But people can be a bit cruel sometimes when it comes to being a different religion. I do need to get over it, and I am sure there are just as many or perhaps more kind and accepting Christians.

Bossobass
01-19-2011, 04:33 PM
Is it really "neutering the Governors" to point out when they actually do say something that really is bigoted and intolerant, something which could indicate that he plans to rule as a theocratic tyrant, granting the special privileges offered by government largess to some and oppressing others. That does not represent liberty, and we are not bound to defend it.

Sure, they're free to say what they want... but if I was in his state, I'd move because I would feel like a Witch in Salem, or a non-Christian on the brink of the beginnings of the Inquisition, or like any of the groups who were targeted by the nazi regime, because history already tells us what such hate speech can lead to if followed up by actions that tend to follow such divisive words.

So there certainly is the potential for tyranny in the intent behind his words, and yes it could become a real fear. Will it definitely lead to something so terrible? Not necessarily, but the attempt to de-legitimize whole sections of religious peoples in and outside of his State is a spiteful, hateful, warlike position to take up against those he could just as easily love and accept as brothers and sisters just as much as he does Christians.

I would like to think that Ron Paul would be kinder to me than this, rather than the big middle finger Gov. Bentley just gave me and hundreds of thousands of others in the nation.

Yeah, so who's the witch hunter here?

"He plans to rule as a Theocratic Tyrant"
"... says something bigoted and intolerant"
"hate speech"
"what he said 'came off as'..."

WTF? Do you have a degree in Judging the World, one sentence at a time? Who hands those licenses to Judge out anyway, the ADL???

Raise your hand if you've bought into the "hate speech will not be allowed... as soon as WE define hate speech" BS story.

Talk about intolerant.

How tolerant of King George were the speeches by Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, et al? So, why do you think those guys gave FREE SPEECH such a high priority?

Bosso

YumYum
01-19-2011, 04:40 PM
Unfortunately, I am not joking, because the tyranny of the majority can be brutal. =\

I wish I was joking, as I do not like negativity, and do not mean to ruffle feathers or upset anyone. But people can be a bit cruel sometimes when it comes to being a different religion. I do need to get over it, and I am sure there are just as many or perhaps more kind and accepting Christians.

Well, you have a valid point. Jesus did say "Those that are doing the will of my Father are my brothers and sisters and my family." So, maybe the Governor is a Chosen One, and is not out of line with his comments.

Yieu
01-19-2011, 04:44 PM
I have nothing against free speech.

I support everyone's right to say whatever they want, no matter how radical it might sound to any other individual or group.

I oppose witch hunts based on speech or any other form of expression, including any witch hunts involving this particular incident or any other particular incident.

I am merely troubled because I have experienced religious persecution myself, so I read into it the worst case scenario that theocracy could and has lead to. I did not mean to sound like I was judging, I was trying to explain that myself and others were being Judged. I mean no ill intent towards any Christians in the comments I made, and did make it a point that I view them as my religious brothers and sisters under God. I did use some harsh language though, and for that I apologize.

Yieu
01-19-2011, 04:51 PM
Well, you have a valid point. Jesus did say "Those that are doing the will of my Father are my brothers and sisters and my family." So, maybe the Governor is a Chosen One, and is not out of line with his comments.

That is very comforting to hear, that even Jesus accepts me as a brother and as family. I do not make claim to perfectly do His will (few can), but I aspire to and try to always improve toward pure devotional service to God, much as you would do the same.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 04:51 PM
I have nothing against free speech.

I support everyone's right to say whatever they want, no matter how radical it might sound to any other individual or group.

I oppose witch hunts based on speech or any other form of expression, including any witch hunts involving this particular incident or any other particular incident.

I am merely troubled because I have experienced religious persecution myself, so I read into it the worst case scenario that theocracy could and has lead to. I did not mean to sound like I was judging, I was trying to explain that myself and others were being Judged. I mean no ill intent towards any Christians in the comments I made, and did make it a point that I view them as my religious brothers and sisters under God. I did use some harsh language though, and for that I apologize.

Oh, I'm not offended. But I am very impressed with your humility. I find no deception in your heart. Are you a Christian?

Yieu
01-19-2011, 05:06 PM
Oh, I'm not offended. But I am very impressed with your humility. I find no deception in your heart. Are you a Christian?

I am glad you were not offended, that is never my intent. I do not call myself a Christian as some of my beliefs differ, but I do hold great reverence for many of Christ's teachings and for Christ himself. I grew up a Christian and now identify as Hindu -- there are more accurate and specific terms as Hinduism has many divisions, but this term is more widely known. One little known fact is that the sect of Hinduism I follow, which 70% of Hindus adhere to, is entirely monotheistic. Demi-gods are not equivalent to the Supreme God, they are more likened to angels, or governors.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 05:22 PM
I am glad you were not offended, that is never my intent. I do not call myself a Christian as some of my beliefs differ, but I do hold great reverence for many of Christ's teachings and for Christ himself. I grew up a Christian and now identify as Hindu -- there are more accurate and specific terms as Hinduism has many divisions, but this term is more widely known. One little known fact is that the sect of Hinduism I follow, which 70% of Hindus adhere to, is entirely monotheistic. Demi-gods are not equivalent to the Supreme God, they are more likened to angels, or governors.

Isn't there a tradition that Jesus once visited India when He was resurrected?

MelissaWV
01-19-2011, 05:25 PM
Hey guys. Guess what.

None of you are my brothers or sisters.

I'm sure you're offended.

silentshout
01-19-2011, 05:43 PM
Somewhat troubling, but my curiousity drifted to why the Anti-Defamation League gets involved in this stuff.

Where's the "defamation" here? Or is someone's skin so thin that you could cut through it with clay?

I agree. As a non-believer, i am troubled by his statement, and i would move if I lived in Alabama. I definitely do not like exclusionary speech like that, it annoys me. However, he has the right to say it, don't see the point of having the ADL involved.

oyarde
01-19-2011, 06:11 PM
Hey guys. Guess what.

None of you are my brothers or sisters.

I'm sure you're offended.

You sure no how to dissapoint ! : )

oyarde
01-19-2011, 06:12 PM
Isn't there a tradition that Jesus once visited India when He was resurrected?

I have heard people mention that as possible . There is much of his life that is not recorded . There was time for travel .

HazyHusky420
01-19-2011, 06:34 PM
Someone probably paid him to say that in order to create this media frenzy and therefor distract people.

Anyways, i'm not surprised. It's Alabama. The same nanny state that banned sex toys.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 06:36 PM
Someone probably paid him to say that in order to create this media frenzy and therefor distract people.

Anyways, i'm not surprised. It's Alabama. The same nanny state that banned sex toys.

But doesn't that go in line with "State's rights"?

Anti Federalist
01-19-2011, 06:39 PM
Hey guys. Guess what.

None of you are my brothers or sisters.

I'm sure you're offended.

:collins::collins::collins:

HazyHusky420
01-19-2011, 06:41 PM
But doesn't that go in line with "State's rights"?

1. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. States rights isn't a big part of my vocabulary
2. California has the right to ban guns but that doesn't mean they're libertarian.

BlackTerrel
01-19-2011, 08:27 PM
Good for the governor of Alabama. I like what he said - he shouldn't pander to other groups.

HazyHusky420
01-19-2011, 08:29 PM
Good for the governor of Alabama. I like what he said - he shouldn't pander to other groups.

I hope he brings back witch burning!

oyarde
01-19-2011, 08:39 PM
I hope he brings back witch burning!

Easy now .

HazyHusky420
01-19-2011, 08:41 PM
Easy now .

I was being sarcastic.

oyarde
01-19-2011, 08:43 PM
I was being sarcastic.

I know.

BlackTerrel
01-19-2011, 08:43 PM
I hope he brings back witch burning!

Yes because anyone who respects fellow Christians wants to burn witches..... great analogy.

oyarde
01-19-2011, 08:44 PM
Yes because anyone who respects fellow Christians wants to burn witches..... great analogy.

I think he was kidding .

YumYum
01-19-2011, 08:51 PM
Jesus said: "I came to separate and cause divisions". So, maybe this guy is doing the work of Jesus.

HazyHusky420
01-19-2011, 08:51 PM
What if a Muslim politician said something similar?

I hope this guy never goes anywhere near a position that deals with foreign policy. I highly doubt he's a non-interventionist, and if my suspicions are correct he'll be like Jim Hagee with actual power.

Yieu
01-19-2011, 09:03 PM
Yes because anyone who respects fellow Christians wants to burn witches..... great analogy.

Well, to be clear, it did not appear that he was trying to proclaim respect any group, but rather proclaim which groups he specifically does not respect... those groups being non-Christians. It was a divisive comment, but he has the right to say it. Similar lines of thought have lead to witch hunts in the past, and just because we are more modern does not mean we are immune -- and not necessarily with witches. Not to say it would necessarily happen, but religious persecution is something some are sensitive to. Maybe everyone just needs thicker skins, but getting along and being tolerant of each other is more enjoyable. I love having a good deep religious discussion with Christians who do not wish to judge me, it is great connecting with my brothers and sisters under God. :)

Edited to add:


Jesus said: "I came to separate and cause divisions". So, maybe this guy is doing the work of Jesus.

There could be a few meanings to those words.

Did he mean that he wants his followers to demean and be resentful and divisive towards others who worship the same God as they do, but in a slightly different way?

Or did he mean he came to separate the true religionists who wish only to serve the one God, from the "chaff" who would have been either atheistic or would rather stick to traditions of the times and rituals than to break free from all sorts of different methods of religion and just try to love God and serve Him as sincerely as you are capable. Kind of like this quote from the Bhagavad Gita:


Chapter 18, Verse 66. Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me (God). I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

YumYum
01-19-2011, 09:17 PM
Well, to be clear, it did not appear that he was trying to proclaim respect any group, but rather proclaim which groups he specifically does not respect... those groups being non-Christians. It was a divisive comment, but he has the right to say it. Similar lines of thought have lead to witch hunts in the past, and just because we are more modern does not mean we are immune -- and not necessarily with witches. Not to say it would necessarily happen, but religious persecution is something some are sensitive to. Maybe everyone just needs thicker skins, but getting along and being tolerant of each other is more enjoyable. I love having a good deep religious discussion with Christians who do not wish to judge me, it is great connecting with my brothers and sisters under God. :)

Edited to add:



There could be a few meanings to those words.

Did he mean that he wants his followers to demean and be resentful and divisive towards others who worship the same God as they do, but in a slightly different way?

Or did he mean he came to separate the true religionists who wish only to serve the one God, from the "chaff" who would have been either atheistic or would rather stick to traditions of the times and rituals than to break free from all sorts of different methods of religion and just try to love God and serve Him as sincerely as you are capable. Kind of like this quote from the Bhagavad Gita:

He meant "either you are for me, or against me". He came to break up families and cause divisions where there are believers and non-believers.

oyarde
01-19-2011, 09:19 PM
Well someone post the ADL investigation findings and then I can determine if the ADL needs " investigated" : )

jazzloversinc
01-19-2011, 09:31 PM
I wrote a letter to the ADL about that. The thing is, it's true, only brothers and sisters in Christ are family...everyone else are..well, non believers. All Christians pray that everyone will come to Jesus, this is not an insult...but out of love. Won't you join us?

Yieu
01-19-2011, 09:44 PM
I wrote a letter to the ADL about that. The thing is, it's true, only brothers and sisters in Christ are family...everyone else are..well, non believers. All Christians pray that everyone will come to Jesus, this is not an insult...but out of love. Won't you join us?

I will worship God with you, pray with you, make sacrifices with you (such as fasting or charity or similar), and revere Christ and his teachings with you... but it is still definitely an insult to tell me that I will go to hell even so just because my beliefs are slightly nuanced and different from yours. I am not a non-believer -- I very much believe in God and desire to serve Him, but I also hold beliefs you may strongly disagree with as a Hindu. Out of love, I would hope that you can accept me anyway, but for many that is not possible, which I find unfortunate but it is still their right to tell me they personally think I belong in hell, though it may be unforgiving and unkind.

bunklocoempire
01-19-2011, 10:03 PM
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley told a church crowd just moments into his new administration that those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior are not his brothers and sisters, shocking some critics who questioned Tuesday whether he can be fair to non-Christians.

"Anybody here today who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I'm telling you, you're not my brother and you're not my sister, and I want to be your brother," Bentley said Monday, his inauguration day, according to The Birmingham News.

The Anti-Defamation League on Tuesday called Bentley's remarks shocking.

"His comments are not only offensive, but also raise serious questions as to whether non-Christians can expect to receive equal treatment during his tenure as governor," said Bill Nigut, the ADL's regional director.

Read more

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/AlabamaGovernorChristians/2011/01/19/id/383210

Ala Tony Blair etc. school of thought.

*barf*:collins:

(freestylin' w/the emoticollins :D;))

From '09:


Tony Blair's faith in new mission...

His new inter-faith foundation has linked with Yale University and launched a new course, on Faith and Globalisation.
"If globalisation is a force pushing people together, does religion become a force pulling people apart?" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7994618.stm

In other words forget your faith and what you believe to be the loving and right course, -shut your pie hole and fall in line, don't question the mob, don't question government, don't be so "extreme", government will be your god, the mob will be your god. What could possibly go wrong?:rolleyes:

Jesus has never let me down, mankind, the ADL, Tony Blair and their followers have.

Deal with it.:)

Matthew 10:34–39
34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn “ ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

37“Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

"On the night of Jesus’ birth the angels proclaimed to the shepherds, “On earth peace to men on whom his favor rests” (Luke 2:14). Jesus, the Prince of peace, came to establish peace between God and sinful humanity. He reconciled us to God by offering himself as the perfect sacrifice to atone for all sins. Yet the majority of this world’s people prefer to think that they can do what is necessary to establish their own peace with God, and they resent anyone who tells them anything different. That is why a consequence of Jesus’ coming is not peace, but a sword.

Enemies of Christ are hostile toward Christians, and sometimes that hostility even leads to bloodshed. Sadly, the unbelievers’ victims may even be members of their own households. In order to avoid such bad blood within the family circle, Christians are tempted to hide their faith or even to deny their Lord. But anyone who is more concerned about his relationship with his relatives than about his relationship with his Lord is making a disastrous choice.

The cross Jesus asks us to bear is not a reference to troubles and sufferings in general, but only to suffering that we are called upon to endure because of our faith. Some Christians are called upon to bear much heavier crosses than others, but our Lord promises that he will give us the strength we need, so that our crosses will not overwhelm us but bring us closer to our Savior.

To lose one’s life for Jesus’ sake is to give oneself completely into his hands, body and soul. It is to make oneself a living sacrifice to the Lord. In the process, the Christian lives abundantly now and will live in eternal glory with his Savior hereafter. But those who concentrate on the things of this life jeopardize their eternal salvation. He who gains the whole world but loses his soul has made a poor bargain indeed!"
Albrecht, G. Jerome ; Albrecht, Michael J.: Matthew. Milwaukee, Wis. : Northwestern Pub. House, 1996 (The People's Bible), S. 157

Bunkloco

Yieu
01-19-2011, 10:39 PM
Yet the majority of this world’s people prefer to think that they can do what is necessary to establish their own peace with God, and they resent anyone who tells them anything different. That is why a consequence of Jesus’ coming is not peace, but a sword.

Since this was underlined, it appears to be directed at me. For that reason, I would like to state that I am not trying to "make my own peace" with God, and I am not making up a God in my head or just making stuff up. I try to serve God to the best of my ability in accordance with Scripture, particularly the Vedas. The Vedas are authoritative scripture.


Enemies of Christ are hostile toward Christians, and sometimes that hostility even leads to bloodshed. Sadly, the unbelievers’ victims may even be members of their own households. In order to avoid such bad blood within the family circle, Christians are tempted to hide their faith or even to deny their Lord. But anyone who is more concerned about his relationship with his relatives than about his relationship with his Lord is making a disastrous choice.

I am not quite so sure this was directed at me since it was not underlined, but I have a comment for it. For one, I am not an "enemy of Christ", nor am I hostile towards Christians -- I love them, although I have been on the receiving end of persecution from some Christians, so this quote above reminds me of how I tend to be quiet about my faith in general, but only recently decided to risk being more open, which opens me up to persecution or attacks such as described in the quote above.

The second comment I have regarding this quote, is that it reminds me of how in the Vedas it states that worldly attachment to family or material things can get in the way of attachment to God, and that God must come first. An analogy is drawn to our minds being like that of a married person who is an adulterer, who would be performing their duties in the household but always thinking of the person they are cheating with rather than their spouse. In this way is how we are to have our relationship with God -- our thoughts on him while we dutifully carry out the duties of the household.

So in short, we agree here, to a degree at least. The previous paragraph above also addresses YumYum's last post as well. That our devotion is to be with God, over all else, which certainly could cause divisions. However, I do not believe it is meant to be divisive amongst the religionists, of which Christians and Hindus are, because we both worship God.


He meant "either you are for me, or against me". He came to break up families and cause divisions where there are believers and non-believers.

ExPatPaki
01-20-2011, 08:08 AM
Isn't there a tradition that Jesus once visited India when He was resurrected?

The Ahmadi sect in Islam believes in the Jesus in India theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_India_%28book%29

Who really cares what the AL governor says? He isn't probing people for being a different nationality/religion like Peter King is. Is the ADL going after King?

Justinjj1
01-20-2011, 08:44 AM
I'm always very distrustful of any politician who wears their religion on their sleeve. This quote just sounds like blatant pandering to the religious-right, fascist nutjobs in Alabama. I'm sure all of those moral crusading idiots just love this guy, but it really surprises me to see so many on here defending him. He's the governor of a state, who wields a huge amount of power over the citizens who live there, and he's saying that only Christians are his brothers and sisters. This just adds to a long list of reasons why I never want to live in the deep South. “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross."

reillym
01-20-2011, 03:48 PM
^This. I find people who are part of the Ron Paul movement part of my political family. (Yes we have squabbles and sometimes I wish some would be disowned). There are people who are part of my political family who aren't part of my religious family and vice versa. I have biological family members who are part of my religious family but none (to my knowledge) that are part of my political family. (Many do respect my views and genuinely like Ron Paul). This governor was merely expressing his views about his religious family and how he wishes other people would join. That's no more bigoted than saying I wish there were more Ron Paul supporters.

Religion has no place in politics. No politician, especially a governor, has the right to say such things.

I would have the same feelings if he was an atheist. America is a land for all peoples, not just ignorant christian bigots or militant atheists.


His job isn't to try to recruit people to jesus, his job is to work for the people of alabama. He is breaking his oath of office to uphold the constitution. Jailtime might be in order.

ammorris
01-20-2011, 07:43 PM
Religion has no place in politics. No politician, especially a governor, has the right to say such things.

I would have the same feelings if he was an atheist. America is a land for all peoples, not just ignorant christian bigots or militant atheists.


His job isn't to try to recruit people to jesus, his job is to work for the people of alabama. He is breaking his oath of office to uphold the constitution. Jailtime might be in order.

Silly nonsense. This man has every right to express his beliefs, just as you do. Holding Christian beliefs in no way precludes him from executing the laws of Alabama faithfully and fairly. It is entirely possible that he could fulfill both the Great Commission and his oath of office.

As for those who say that they would leave the state if their governor said something like this: Are you really so thin-skinned that you would pack up and move because a man you've never met said that you are not his brother? Tempest in a teapot.

BamaAla
01-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Welcome to Alabama. This guy was a political no-body that came out of left field to win. It is a little upsetting, but this is what the people of Alabama want.

I said in another thread and I'll say it again here: A candidate running against Ron Paul in a state-wide election could stand up and say "I'm a fascist, but I promise that, in my Alabama, there will be prayer in schools, gamblers will be hanged, pornography will be illegal, sex will require a permit from the state, gays will be imprisoned, and church attendance will be mandatory." He would beat Ron by a 5:1 margin in this state. That's just how it is here.

YumYum
01-20-2011, 08:25 PM
Welcome to Alabama. This guy was a political no-body that came out of left field to win. It is a little upsetting, but this is what the people of Alabama want.

I said in another thread and I'll say it again here: A candidate running against Ron Paul in a state-wide election could stand up and say "I'm a fascist, but I promise that, in my Alabama, there will be prayer in schools, gamblers will be hanged, pornography will be illegal, sex will require a permit from the state, gays will be imprisoned, and church attendance will be mandatory." He would beat Ron by a 5:1 margin in this state. That's just how it is here.

This is one of the greatest, most realistic post I have ever read. Can you all handle what this man just said?

Semper Vigilans
01-20-2011, 08:46 PM
Welcome to Alabama. This guy was a political no-body that came out of left field to win. It is a little upsetting, but this is what the people of Alabama want.

I said in another thread and I'll say it again here: A candidate running against Ron Paul in a state-wide election could stand up and say "I'm a fascist, but I promise that, in my Alabama, there will be prayer in schools, gamblers will be hanged, pornography will be illegal, sex will require a permit from the state, gays will be imprisoned, and church attendance will be mandatory." He would beat Ron by a 5:1 margin in this state. That's just how it is here.

As a resident of Prattville, I heartily agree with this poster.

If you don't profess to love Jesus and despise all the "evils" of the world, don't even bother running.

Now of course, after they get into office, our politicians sure do act in an un-Christian manner...

Our politicians are amongst the most crooked in the nation.

BlackTerrel
01-20-2011, 09:00 PM
Religion has no place in politics. No politician, especially a governor, has the right to say such things.

I would have the same feelings if he was an atheist. America is a land for all peoples, not just ignorant christian bigots or militant atheists.


His job isn't to try to recruit people to jesus, his job is to work for the people of alabama. He is breaking his oath of office to uphold the constitution. Jailtime might be in order.

I hope you're being hyperbolic.