We Reap What We Sow

[Vessol]

A really excellent video by Stefan about parenting, the media, and Loughner.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu9HUBs5mp0

[Anti Federalist]

I was making a similar case (or I'm going to assume it's similar, I can't watch videos here) that we surely do reap what is sown.

If what is sown is unjustified state killing by the hundreds of thousands, then that is what will be reaped, unjustified killings.

I was shouted down by outraged sensibilities.

[pacelli]

Just out of curiosity, did this guy have problems with toilet training when he was a child? Seems to have a serious chip on his shoulder that is projected onto others.

I'm also getting a 'mind control' vibe, particularly with the NLP techniques. His "red room" videos and public speeches have been spreading like wildfire on RPF recently. Has anyone looked into him with scrutiny?

[silverhandorder]

Just out of curiosity, did this guy have problems with toilet training when he was a child? Seems to have a serious chip on his shoulder that is projected onto others.

I'm also getting a 'mind control' vibe, particularly with the NLP techniques. His "red room" videos and public speeches have been spreading like wildfire on RPF recently. Has anyone looked into him with scrutiny?

Oh god save the looney for other stuff. Why don't you address what he says instead of simply insulting him.

edit: Summary for AF. He blames Jared's parents for not noticing the signs and claims they were obvious. He also says the reason no one is talking about whether parents are responsible or not because we live in a generation where parents are detached from children. So talking about it would make them reflect on them selves.

[pacelli]

Oh god save the looney for other stuff. Why don't you address what he says instead of simply insulting him.

My comments are based on what he has said, and I am not engaging in simple insults. I've asked questions designed to provoke a discussion. Molyneux makes videos designed for discussion.

In the video in the OP, Molyneux essentially says that Loughner's parents were indirectly responsible for Loughner's behavior because they provided him with money which he then used to purchase the weapon. Hence the silence of the parents. Hence the media doing everything BUT blaming Loughner's parents. It is a taboo subject to blame Loughner's parents.

Honestly--Tell me that argument is sound. This is the reason I am questioning Molyneux's "looney" factor to use your word.

[silverhandorder]

You are correct in summarizing what he said but whats it got to do with Moleneux? I don't see how he is projecting himself or whether he has an anti authority complex.

edit: You missed the beginning where he talks about obvious signs that Jared was dangerous.

[Vessol]

Just out of curiosity, did this guy have problems with toilet training when he was a child? Seems to have a serious chip on his shoulder that is projected onto others.

I'm also getting a 'mind control' vibe, particularly with the NLP techniques. His "red room" videos and public speeches have been spreading like wildfire on RPF recently. Has anyone looked into him with scrutiny?

LOL. Or maybe Stefan does is videos in his 'red room' because it is the easiest for him to record in?

Here's a video where he is..OMG OUTSIDE! The outside scenery must be part of his mind control plan to ease the watchers sense of comfort, just look at the playground stuff that he sits on..that may just be what his daughter plays on..OR IT MAY JUST BE A METHOD IN ORDER TO EASE THE VIEWER INTO WATCHING HIM AND BELIEVING HIM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzZAODJt8Tg

As for what he is saying and why he is becoming more popular? I think anarchistic thoughts are an extremely common end point on the road of libertarianism and freedom.
As I saw one quote here say "I used to be a minarchist until I ran out of excuses".
The reason why Stefan is becoming very popular around here as well as anarcho-capitalist ideas is because most of us were introduced to the ideas of freedom, libertarianism, ect only within the last few years. I feel that over time that it is quite natural for many to come to accept that the only rational and moral society is a stateless society.
I'm only following the father of anarcho-capitalism, Murray Rothbard, who himself started as a minarchist and a libertarian and eventually came to embrace a stateless society.

And even if he is using "mind control", for what potential reason would this bring to his benefit? He runs completely on donations from others, he writes books and airs podcasts for free.
And his ideas? If he is using "mind control" to control us and spread his ideas. How are those ideas damaging? They are not telling us to go out and hurt anyone, or anything like that. What potential goals or desires could he even want that he would be 'nefarious' enough to use "mind control"?

[pacelli]

You are correct in summarizing what he said but whats it got to do with Moleneux? I don't see how he is projecting himself or whether he has an anti authority complex.

edit: You missed the beginning where he talks about obvious signs that Jared was dangerous.

Does Molyneux's argument that Loughner's parents are to blame for their son's actions make any rational sense to you personally? Or is that argument a product of Molyneux's mind that 'makes sense' after watching the video in its completion?

[Vessol]

Molyneux was simply stating and questioning why the media hasn't brought Loughner's upbringing and his parents at all into it. They look at blaming everything else, but don't even want to explore anything about his upbringing. Childhood has more impact on our lives than anything else. That's all that the video was about. I think that this is common knowledge and isn't a thought that was inserted into my head when Stefan used "mind control" to plant the idea into me.

[Cowlesy]

I agree with summaries of what he said above, but it just seems like this guy has a huge chip on his shoulder about parents who don't spend enough time with their kids. He's certainly allowed to make that point, but not everyone can have two stay-at-home parents. That doesn't mean they don't love and support their children. Did he have a really tough upbringing and this is some sort of projection?

[pcosmar]

My comments are based on what he has said, .
Wrong, Your comments are based on what he is alleged to have said.. With absolutely no proof of the origins of those videos.


In the video in the OP, Molyneux essentially says that Loughner's parents were indirectly responsible for Loughner's behavior because they provided him with money which he then used to purchase the weapon. Hence the silence of the parents. Hence the media doing everything BUT blaming Loughner's parents. It is a taboo subject to blame Loughner's parents.

Molyneux has no idea where that money came from or how he got the gun, and is jumping to conclusions. He has absolutely no idea of what was or was not going on in that family and is drawing conclusions based on his own assumptions.

I speculate. And I have an opinion, one that I will back with known facts. But I make no claim of knowing those things that I do not KNOW.
It is speculation.

[pacelli]

Wrong, Your comments are based on what he is alleged to have said.. With absolutely no proof of the origins of those videos.

I'm sorry but I watched Molyneux's video in the OP-- I was referring to Stefan Molyneux in my comments, not Jared Loughner. The origins of the Molyneux video in the OP was Stefan Molyneux. I wasn't referring at all to the alleged Loughner videos. Apologies if it came across that I was.

I smell a rat with the entire Loughner situation.


Molyneux has no idea where that money came from or how he got the gun, and is jumping to conclusions. He has absolutely no idea of what was or was not going on in that family and is drawing conclusions based on his own assumptions.

I speculate. And I have an opinion, one that I will back with known facts. But I make no claim of knowing those things that I do not KNOW.
It is speculation.

I completely agree, which makes Molyneux's argument even more preposterous in my opinion.

[Travlyr]

As for what he is saying and why he is becoming more popular? I think anarchistic thoughts are an extremely common end point on the road of libertarianism and freedom.
As I saw one quote here say "I used to be a minarchist until I ran out of excuses".
The reason why Stefan is becoming very popular around here as well as anarcho-capitalist ideas is because most of us were introduced to the ideas of freedom, libertarianism, ect only within the last few years. I feel that over time that it is quite natural for many to come to accept that the only rational and moral society is a stateless society.
I'm only following the father of anarcho-capitalism, Murray Rothbard, who himself started as a minarchist and a libertarian and eventually came to embrace a stateless society.


Stefan is becoming more popular, but there are some obvious red flags. Anarchists view minarchists as just not having reached the obvious conclusion, but I cannot make the leap because I see anarchism as a false idol. Separation of state and money with laissez-faire free-market capitalism, yes. But, when it comes to murder, assault, fraud, theft, natural rights and property rights ... clearly written laws can do a better job of providing order for liberty, peace and prosperity.

When people produce they have purpose. Purpose promotes meaning of life. The land, air and sea hold resources. When individuals are allowed to lay a claim to use those resources then they can produce wealth... with wealth being defined as: abundance of valuable material possessions or resources.

Wealth provides opportunity to pursue happiness beyond the necessities of life while lack of wealth is mere survival. Also, wealth can be progressive if one is allowed to invest, keep, and build upon previous efforts which promotes security. Wealthy secure individuals have more capacity to provide comfort and compassion to those less fortunate. The world would be a better place if the "wealth (individual land ownership) was spread around a little bit."

* All wealth comes from the earth; therefore, landowners can produce wealth.
* Sovereign title to property promotes liberty, prosperity, and security.
* Natural rights are inherent.

Therefore, a well written social contract can be a most valuable instrument in documenting property ownership and providing justice for violations of rights; thereby, creating opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[TNforPaul45]

Oh god save the looney for other stuff. Why don't you address what he says instead of simply insulting him.

edit: Summary for AF. He blames Jared's parents for not noticing the signs and claims they were obvious. He also says the reason no one is talking about whether parents are responsible or not because we live in a generation where parents are detached from children. So talking about it would make them reflect on them selves.

"Mind Control Stuff" is never looney. Any sort of media which seeks to influence the thoughts of others is essentially mind control, no matter the form or intensity. Look up Edward Bernays if you have any doubts. Anytime you walk into a Wal Mart, for example, you are under Mind Control attack, just from the careful planning, design of the store, the colors chosen and the influential reasons they were put where they are. They are attempting to influence and control your mind so that you will spend more.

It's all very elementary.

[dean.engelhardt]

I watched about 4min of the video, then I remembered an old saying: Free advice is worth every penny you pay for.

[Teaser Rate]

This is basically a 20 minute cry for help of a grown man who can’t understand why his parents didn’t pay enough attention to him. The amount of projection Stephen does is quite amazing, every single thing that has ever been wrong with the world must be his (and yours) parents’ fault.

I strongly advise libertarians and anarcho-capitalists to be careful about taking anything he says too seriously as to not allow that kind of toxic thinking to creep into your subconscious.

[specialkornflake]

I've been drawn to Stefan's arguments since joining the Ron Paul movement in 2007. Saying Stefan is projecting is a low insult and has no sway on the validity of any arguments. The discussion on the raising of children is of the upmost importance.

[ClayTrainor]

The discussion on the raising of children is of the upmost importance.

Absolutely. I never realized how important this was until recently. I would also say that it is the single most difficult topic for most individuals to address with a truly open and honest approach, because it's a topic that can really rub our emotional sore spots that most of us have chosen to ignore most of our lives, due to the pain we feel when the topic is addressed with honestly.

That's how i feel about it, anyways...

[Vessol]

Stefan is becoming more popular, but there are some obvious red flags. Anarchists view minarchists as just not having reached the obvious conclusion, but I cannot make the leap because I see anarchism as a false idol. Separation of state and money with laissez-faire free-market capitalism, yes. But, when it comes to murder, assault, fraud, theft, natural rights and property rights ... clearly written laws can do a better job of providing order for liberty, peace and prosperity.

When people produce they have purpose. Purpose promotes meaning of life. The land, air and sea hold resources. When individuals are allowed to lay a claim to use those resources then they can produce wealth... with wealth being defined as: abundance of valuable material possessions or resources.

Wealth provides opportunity to pursue happiness beyond the necessities of life while lack of wealth is mere survival. Also, wealth can be progressive if one is allowed to invest, keep, and build upon previous efforts which promotes security. Wealthy secure individuals have more capacity to provide comfort and compassion to those less fortunate. The world would be a better place if the "wealth (individual land ownership) was spread around a little bit."

* All wealth comes from the earth; therefore, landowners can produce wealth.
* Sovereign title to property promotes liberty, prosperity, and security.
* Natural rights are inherent.

Therefore, a well written social contract can be a most valuable instrument in documenting property ownership and providing justice for violations of rights; thereby, creating opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Let me ask you this simple question:

How does a government defend property, when to exist it must necessarily take a part of the aforementioned property involuntarily?

It is my belief that humans can live with civilly and be prosperous without the violent coersiveness that is required for a government to exist.


This is basically a 20 minute cry for help of a grown man who can’t understand why his parents didn’t pay enough attention to him. The amount of projection Stephen does is quite amazing, every single thing that has ever been wrong with the world must be his (and yours) parents’ fault.

I strongly advise libertarians and anarcho-capitalists to be careful about taking anything he says too seriously as to not allow that kind of toxic thinking to creep into your subconscious.

Instead of turning this into an ad hominem, why don't you rationally and logically break apart what he is saying and why you disagree with it?

[Romulus]

Absolutely. I never realized how important this was until recently. I would also say that it is the single most difficult topic for most individuals to address with a truly open and honest approach, because it's a topic that can really rub our emotional sore spots that most of us have chosen to ignore most of our lives, due to the pain we feel when the topic is addressed with honestly.

That's how i feel about it, anyways...

I agree 100%. Steph does make valid points and these are the one's closest to our hearts when making decisions in life. To blame his parents 100% is wrong, but to completely ignore them, like the MSM is doing is telling. Why? Because those who make up the media are (most likely) willing participants with being absent or having a bad attitude with their own children, hence the either see no wrong, or suffer no guilt.

To me its the giant elephant in the room that's absurd to ignore. The kid was 22. How can we NOT discuss how he was raised?

Its simple, you get back what you put in. Crap in, crap out.

[Travlyr]

Let me ask you this simple question:

How does a government defend property, when to exist it must necessarily take a part of the aforementioned property involuntarily?That is a good question. Defending individual property or people is not a proper role of government.

To pay for it... previously, I suggested “voluntary taxation” only to learn that it is an oxymoron. Others have suggested user fees to pay for services, and there may be possibilities along those lines. Taxes with no penalty for avoiding taxes is another suggestion. More discussion and brainstorming are necessary. Ron Paul may be able to provide us with some solutions in his upcoming book, “Liberty Defined.”

Yet, I submit that your question misses the target ... that there is a larger question:
What is the most effective way to achieve liberty, peace and prosperity?


It is my belief that humans can live with civilly and be prosperous without the violent coersiveness that is required for a government to exist.Some people can, and some people cannot. Maybe you and I can, but obviously David Rockefeller, Jared Loughner, and thousands upon thousands, maybe millions, of others just can’t do it.

[silverhandorder]

That is a good question. Defending individual property or people is not a proper role of government.

Any way you put it there will always be those that benefit disproportionally.


To pay for it... previously, I suggested “voluntary taxation” only to learn that it is an oxymoron. Others have suggested user fees to pay for services, and there may be possibilities along those lines. Taxes with no penalty for avoiding taxes is another suggestion. More discussion and brainstorming are necessary. Ron Paul may be able to provide us with some solutions in his upcoming book, “Liberty Defined.”

I think voluntary funding of government which I assume you are talking about above is very much possible. It is one of many checks one will need on a government in order to keep it small.


Yet, I submit that your question misses the target ... that there is a larger question:
What is the most effective way to achieve liberty, peace and prosperity?

The most effective way has minarchists and anarchists working together. So to that end recognize that I am working with you not against you.


Some people can, and some people cannot. Maybe you and I can, but obviously David Rockefeller, Jared Loughner, and thousands upon thousands, maybe millions, of others just can’t do it.

Today's system hardly provides a working alternative.

[Travlyr]

The most effective way has minarchists and anarchists working together. So to that end recognize that I am working with you not against you.

Today's system hardly provides a working alternative.
I appreciate that, and the same here.

Today's system is a criminal cabal of counterfeiting thugs running things from behind the scenes and has no resemblance to minarachy or anarchy.