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View Full Version : is the government starting to fear the people?




cindy25
01-15-2011, 07:08 AM
or I am just optimistic

just seems that governments/legislators starting to back down, things like the bike tax being withdrawn in NJ, to the riots in UK (Charles has to fear his subjects)

sevin
01-15-2011, 09:16 AM
two steps forward, one step back...

pacelli
01-15-2011, 09:27 AM
They've always been afraid of the people. That's why they are working hard to take our freedoms away while making it seem like they are working for freedom.

outspoken
01-15-2011, 09:33 AM
a little fear goes a long ways.... unfortunately, few politicians understand human nature other than to play on the people's unconscious fears masked as hope. It will take a whole generation to change how citizens and politicians think about government. There is still the believe by and large that gov can fix everything. Until that changes back to what was intended by the constitution the citizens will still be at the mercy of uncle sam.

pcosmar
01-15-2011, 10:02 AM
is the government starting to fear the people?

Not Enough.

osan
01-15-2011, 12:05 PM
or I am just optimistic

Just psychotic. :)


just seems that governments/legislators starting to back down, things like the bike tax being withdrawn in NJ, to the riots in UK (Charles has to fear his subjects)I don't think they fear us a whit. There is SO much law on the books now that those in power can use an effectively arbitrary level of force to keep us in line for even the most insignificant issues.

Just look at that poor stooge LAPD murdered yesterday. He goes to the beach, strips buck naked, starts running about, and cops shoot him stone dead when they show up. And of course we all know that this is anything but a rare occurrence.

They do NOT fear us. Murder one here, three there, and they know most of herd will remain just where they belong.

xd9fan
01-15-2011, 12:23 PM
I only wish the ants knew they out number the grasshoppers...............

Anti Federalist
01-15-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't think they fear us a whit. There is SO much law on the books now that those in power can use an effectively arbitrary level of force to keep us in line for even the most insignificant issues.

Just look at that poor stooge LAPD murdered yesterday. He goes to the beach, strips buck naked, starts running about, and cops shoot him stone dead when they show up. And of course we all know that this is anything but a rare occurrence.

They do NOT fear us. Murder one here, three there, and they know most of herd will remain just where they belong.

That ^^^

Your indication that government has truly started to fear the people will be when the midnight SWAT raids stop, when we cease getting gunned down or tased for any reason, or no reason, at all, when the enforcers are forced back under whatever rock they crawled out from under, when TWIC, National ID and PATRIOT Acts are things of the past, just for example.

Until such time, anything that you see that might suggest otherwise is just smoke and mirrors.

lynnf
01-15-2011, 12:36 PM
they still think they can seize full control just before they lose control.

lynn

lx43
01-15-2011, 11:38 PM
Nope

kah13176
01-15-2011, 11:43 PM
is the government starting to fear the people?

Not Enough.

Not at all. Obama is doing the same things he was 2 years ago, no change.

QueenB4Liberty
01-15-2011, 11:45 PM
Yeah, I don't think it's enough.

TNforPaul45
01-16-2011, 12:46 AM
I only wish the ants knew they out number the grasshoppers...............

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

DamianTV
01-16-2011, 03:28 AM
Respect is not the same thing as Fear.

We had expected that the would Respect us, but since that failed, now they Fear us? Wouldnt it have been easier to just listen to us in the first place?

Dark_Horse_Rider
01-16-2011, 04:05 AM
Do you really believe they would not prepare for a situation of social unrest ?

Things are just starting to heat up, when it really gets going, people will be in such a panic that it won't even matter.

DamianTV
01-16-2011, 04:08 AM
Do you really believe they would not prepare for a situation of social unrest ?

Things are just starting to heat up, when it really gets going, people will be in such a panic that it won't even matter.

I think they EXPECT it, and as soon as anyone marches any sort of peaceful protest, they just shitcan the rest of the constitution and put every human being within their reach on lockdown.

fj45lvr
01-16-2011, 04:09 AM
I'll believe that when Ammo is illegal or nearly impossible to buy

osan
01-16-2011, 07:59 AM
they still think they can seize full control just before they lose control.

lynn

This has indeed been often the case in the past, but I suspect it may not be so this time.

The reason? TECHNOLOGY. The levers in Power's favor are now so long that even single men can wield enormous control over entire swaths of very large populations. Technology is a rule changer when it crosses certain thresholds, and the technologies of politics have crossed many.

None of this is to say we are necessarily doomed, but if one is to get into a struggle, it behooves him to know the parameters of the fight. Know that the decks is utterly stacked against us. Then decide whether the fight is worth the effort and if so, proceed on that well-informed basis and not with blindfolds over your eyes. There are weaknesses to be exploited even here. The real key is not to fight on THEIR terms, but on your own. Going head to head against the elite will get you jailed or dead, especially if violence is employed. Those calling for violence play to the hand of those in power, whether accidentally or otherwise. We should hold as the central pillar of our philosophy to forsake all violence until they take the first shots. I believe that organized, coordinated, and utterly nonviolent mass civil disobedience is the only likely way to wrest power from those holding it. While I am not optimistic about our prospects in any measurably significant degree, the alternative is to lie down and that is not acceptable. So fight on is all I can recommend - but do it intelligently. Do not throw your freedom, what little may be left of it, or your life away needlessly. Be smart about your action - be as effective as possible. We really do not have resources to waste.

Chester Copperpot
01-16-2011, 08:00 AM
I think they're more afraid than we realize.. which is why you see them stepping up procedures and efforts to control the people, control the internet or shut it down, etc...


But Im cautiously optimistic that theyll start to back down.. We'll see how the debt limit vote goes.

osan
01-16-2011, 08:03 AM
I only wish the ants knew they out number the grasshoppers...............

Not the relevant factor. Giving enough of a damn to act - that is the prime element here, and most people simply do not care. It's far easier to stay glued to the football game and the beer and let someone else take care of the problem. Easier until suddenly the stricture of the noose is felt, and by then it is too late.

We having fun yet?

osan
01-16-2011, 08:26 AM
I think they're more afraid than we realize.. which is why you see them stepping up procedures and efforts to control the people, control the internet or shut it down, etc...

Tis is a different sense of "fear", IMO. Of course they fear us - we pose potentially great danger to them. The master who fears not his slaves is the greatest fool of all.

Why do you think all that taxpayer money was spent toward psychological and sociological studies these past 60 years? Primarily, it was part of the modernization of politics - of raw political power. The key to acquiring, maintaining, and growing such power lies in understanding the behavioral parameters of the livestock. When those are sufficiently understood and the predictive modeling perfected, one may then proceed with near-impunity. I believe that is what we are currently experiencing. So yes, while they have fear (respect) of our POTENTIAL, they fear us not in actual operations because those at the very top are in fact armed with sufficient understanding of the parameters such that so long as they operate within the boundaries set by those limits, they can essentially do anything they want. IMO this is being played out on a daily basis - paraded in our faces almost as if to mock us most openly and with the most profound contempt.



But Im cautiously optimistic that theyll start to back down.. We'll see how the debt limit vote goes.

Your optimism would seem to presume facts not in evidence. We are talking about people whose avarice and viciousness are of the highest caliber imaginable - or not imaginable as the case may be. They have, by to good graces of the taxpayers, funded radical research into human psychological structure along all sorts of lines - warfare, mass sociological behavior under a panoply of conditions, drugs, sex, and heaven know what else. All this to the tune of trillions of dollars over six-plus decades. Does anyone here think this was money wasted? I do not. I believe that "we" have become a very known quantity while "they" remain opaque.

Anyone seeking to rebel against such power without understanding its nature and extent is embarked upon a fool's errand. In order to effectively push back, a sufficient understanding of the enemy is absolutely required. Without it, there is less than zero hope for success.

Stary Hickory
01-16-2011, 08:34 AM
I think all of the massive authoritarian democracies around the world are in trouble. The concept of government is once again being called into question. The truth has been blasting away for a few years now, and it's only getting louder.

Something has to change, either the people become complete saves or they put an end to it here and now. The system is collapsing, and either it is dictator rule and oppression of more and more freedom or a rejection of corrupt government outright. I think large parts of the US will reject big government, through secession and nullification.

This is a point the government does not want to see reached, as it will signify and end to any hopes it has at continuing it's domination, I think it will attempt to recede and push forward after some time, are job is to make sure it is rejected, and we return to a limited government one that must obey the law like everyone else.

Dark_Horse_Rider
01-16-2011, 08:38 AM
This has indeed been often the case in the past, but I suspect it may not be so this time.

The reason? TECHNOLOGY. The levers in Power's favor are now so long that even single men can wield enormous control over entire swaths of very large populations. Technology is a rule changer when it crosses certain thresholds, and the technologies of politics have crossed many.

None of this is to say we are necessarily doomed, but if one is to get into a struggle, it behooves him to know the parameters of the fight. Know that the decks is utterly stacked against us. Then decide whether the fight is worth the effort and if so, proceed on that well-informed basis and not with blindfolds over your eyes. There are weaknesses to be exploited even here. The real key is not to fight on THEIR terms, but on your own. Going head to head against the elite will get you jailed or dead, especially if violence is employed. Those calling for violence play to the hand of those in power, whether accidentally or otherwise. We should hold as the central pillar of our philosophy to forsake all violence until they take the first shots. I believe that organized, coordinated, and utterly nonviolent mass civil disobedience is the only likely way to wrest power from those holding it. While I am not optimistic about our prospects in any measurably significant degree, the alternative is to lie down and that is not acceptable. So fight on is all I can recommend - but do it intelligently. Do not throw your freedom, what little may be left of it, or your life away needlessly. Be smart about your action - be as effective as possible. We really do not have resources to waste.

Technology will be of no use to them when things start to turn.

Corydoras
01-16-2011, 04:02 PM
Just look at that poor stooge LAPD murdered yesterday. He goes to the beach, strips buck naked, starts running about, and cops shoot him stone dead when they show up. And of course we all know that this is anything but a rare occurrence.

They do NOT fear us. Murder one here, three there, and they know most of herd will remain just where they belong.

Which tyrant was it who said that the way to get someone to talk is to shoot the guys on either side of him?

osan
01-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Technology will be of no use to them when things start to turn.

This is a very bold assertion, not to mention sweeping in its scope. Would you care to back it up with evidence and reason?

osan
01-18-2011, 02:28 PM
Which tyrant was it who said that the way to get someone to talk is to shoot the guys on either side of him?

Dunno - but it is an effective lever.

I do not recall who it was... Turks or Gurkhas - during WWII they would go out on night raids to German fox holes and silently kill one man in each hole in a most hideous fashion while the others slept. In the morning the German soldiers would freak out when they found their buddy sliced and diced.

Psywar works.

osan
01-18-2011, 03:04 PM
I think all of the massive authoritarian democracies around the world are in trouble.

Depends on what you mean by "trouble".

If you mean they are in imminent danger of losing their power, I am highly skeptical. Any group wielding power, holding the keys to sufficient volume and types of technologies, and the will to use them come what may, are probably in a very secure position with respect to maintaining position.

I had a friend in college when I was at UC Davis. His father worked at Lawrence Livermore on weapons research - all cutting edge stuff. He used to tell us about some of it, though he really wasn't supposed to. One weapon they developed was a laser beacon whose sweep was programmable for train and point. Anyone within something like 1/2 mile that happened to be facing in the right direction was immediately blinded - I do not recall whether it was permanent, though this is what I seem to recall. Some human rights organization caught wind of it - Amnesty International? - and LL was forced to shut it down. What do you think happened to that technology? Did it just disappear into the ether? No. It went subrosa. If the people in power are of a sufficiently treacherous nature, and there is no reason to believe they are not, and their position of power were to face clear and immediate threat, assuming they have the power to bring such technologies to bear, do you believe they would hesitate to? I am not convinced either way, but I do hold the possibility that they might be.

What of all these exotic sound weapons? There's shit out there that is bordering on being not believable. I have worked on some of it myself. I do not believe that any of this was developed to protect our nation from foreign threats, but to protect the elite from threats domestic. I may be dead wrong on that point - but what if I am not?

And we have not even touched upon bio-weapons. Release a plague for which no cure is available and you know what we the people will do? We will die. And yes, it will be terrible threat to them as well, but one does what one must if life is hanging in the balance right here and right now.

The means and the will is all it takes. The means are there, of that there is no doubt. The only question remaining to me is whether the will is present. "They" are not simply going to step aside when "we" decide we have had enough - and this presumes that people will even be able to ID the right targets, which I seriously doubt will be the case. We are fighting against the ultimate sleight of hand masters whose skills in the use of technologically aided ruse cannot be rivaled. This slope we face it steep in the extreme and we have no ropes - just strong hands. Will those be enough? I wish I knew.

The concept of government is once again being called into question. The truth has been blasting away for a few years now, and it's only getting louder.


Something has to change

Does it? Why? And so what if it does? It most certainly does NOT have to change for the better, and if it does the degree may be vanishingly small.

Think "Hitler", "Stalin", "Pol Pot", "Amin", "Shah", "Hussein", "Mao", just to list a few from recent history. Go back 10 or so years to Rwanda. My girl flies to Africa - she says I do not want to know what they do to women in Congo. These people have single mindedly butchered well over 150 million people in the mere span of a few decades. They did it with no remorse or hesitation. We're not even talking about clean killing - but usually brutally violent and agonizing death. Hitler was the absolute cleanest of them all in comparison and his programs were nothing to cheer for. The Soviet, Chinese, and Cambodians were an order of magnitude more vicious, and then some.

The people running the USA are the same gang. To believe otherwise is the apex of ignoring reality. Why would these people not throw everything they had at us if the most remote worst-case were to come to pass wherein their very lives and those of their children were immediately threatened with annihilation? If I and mine were so threatened and all I had to do was level a couple major cities with weapons at my disposal, you'd better bet your bacon I'd be pressing that button for all I was worth.

Do not be naive as to the character of those in power. Always assume the worst in them and hope you are wrong.


either the people become complete saves or they put an end to it here and now.

As we can see, it is not quite so simple as that.



The system is collapsing,

Maybe - and if so one must ask "for whom?" It may be collapsing for "us" but not "them".


and either it is dictator rule and oppression of more and more freedom or a rejection of corrupt government outright. I think large parts of the US will reject big government, through secession and nullification.

Nice sounding, but not very realistic methinks.


This is a point the government does not want to see reached, as it will signify and end to any hopes it has at continuing it's domination, I think it will attempt to recede and push forward after some time, are job is to make sure it is rejected, and we return to a limited government one that must obey the law like everyone else.

Let us hope you are right.

Dark_Horse_Rider
01-19-2011, 05:08 AM
This is a very bold assertion, not to mention sweeping in its scope. Would you care to back it up with evidence and reason?

The evidence is in the principle of change, in the fact of a spiritual world that our world is entwined with.

Surely spirits exist, but how many reasonable men can speak of that world concisely ? This is not a philosophy or theory, but the immutable law of nature.

The evidence is there for those who look back through the past... grand cycles of time. Many sages and prophets often spoke of the cataclysms that would be faced by humanity and at the same time, mentioned an awakened culture that would survive those disasters. Surely they spoke of these things for a reason, not merely to hear the sound of their own voices.

Nature's power surely dwarves man's technology. Tsunami, earthquakes, pandemics, volcanos, floods. Look at the comparisons of numbers of raw power unleashed in some of these occurances. The unbridled tides of time are bringing things to a conclusion. Why ? Because this world age is closing and a new time with completely different energy is opening. Spend time outside in a beautiful natural setting in the spring, do the same in the autumn... it is a different feeling, a different time with a different direction.