Rand Paul at Kawanis in Hopkinsville - has drafted balanced budget amendment (audio)

[sailingaway]

http://imgsrv.wkdzradio.com/image/DbGraphic/201101/1726815.jpg?1294960757


http://www.wkdzradio.com/pages/8979069.php?contentType=4&contentId=7484073

One part of the write up from the accompanying article:


SENATOR PAUL ALSO TALKED ABOUT REFORMING MEDICAID AND MEDICARE AS WELL AS BALANCING THE BUDGET AND SAYS HIS STAFF HAS ALREADY DRAFTED A BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION THAT HE PLANS TO INTRODUCE.

[MRoCkEd]

Nice. I hope his balanced budget amendment is better than the trash ones that Graham and McCain support like Jim DeMint's.

It needs to be clear that they can't print money or raise taxes to cover the difference, and that there is no "wartime exception."

[sailingaway]

Nice. I hope his balanced budget amendment is better than the trash ones that Graham and McCain support like Jim DeMint's.

It needs to be clear that they can't print money or raise taxes to cover the difference, and that there is no "wartime exception."

Rand has discussed an exception for 'declared war'. A reporter during the campaign asked Rand if the wars we were in now would count, and he said 'there was no declaration of war issued, so, no.' It was on tape by Cn2 or one of those, after a forum. However, the printing loophole is to consider, and the exception for a declared war should only be for the amount of increase in war spending, not a carte blanche for ALL areas of the budget, or suddenly those who take will be even more incentivized to permanent war.

[low preference guy]

However, the printing loophole is to consider, and the exception for a declared war should only be for the amount of increase in war spending, not a carte blanche for ALL areas of the budget, or suddenly those who take will be even more incentivized to permanent war.

I don't think that's possible. Money is fungible. They can just use the money they used to use for the military for domestic spending while making the "new money" go to the military.

[specsaregood]

I don't think that's possible. Money is fungible. They can just use the money they used to use for the military for domestic spending while making the "new money" go to the military.

Or they'd just do sneaky things like recategorize foreign aid as a component of war spending.

[TheDriver]

It was something good to run on but if history is any indication - even if passed, it won't be followed.

Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985
Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Reaffirmation Act of 1987
The Budget Enforcement Act of 1990

Let's face it: there will never be another balanced budget or surplus. The surpluses came from Social Security in the 90's, SS is going broke in the future, not creating surpluses.

[sailingaway]

I don't think that's possible. Money is fungible. They can just use the money they used to use for the military for domestic spending while making the "new money" go to the military.

It could be forbidden to be spent on anything else.

[sailingaway]

It was something good to run on but if history is any indication - even if passed, it won't be followed.

Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985
Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Reaffirmation Act of 1987
The Budget Enforcement Act of 1990

Let's face it: there will never be another balanced budget or surplus. The surpluses came from Social Security in the 90's, SS is going broke in the future, not creating surpluses.

I'm not really sure I want the clowns in Congress messing with our Constitution. I'm just speaking of how to draft the amendment so it can't actually be used to make things worse.

[low preference guy]

It could be forbidden to be spent on anything else.

What would be forbidden to be spent on anything else? The amount of money spent that exceeds revenues? Or any money at all?

[TheDriver]

The so-called "wars" aren't bankrupting us, welfare is, IMO. I don't like the welfare we bestow on countries we're at war with, that's for sure.

[sailingaway]

What would be forbidden to be spent on anything else? The amount of money spent that exceeds revenues? Or any money at all?

The increase above the pre war military budget which avoids the deficit cap by virtue of the exception in the balanced budget rule/amendment.

[sailingaway]

The so-called "wars" aren't bankrupting us, welfare is, IMO. I don't like the welfare we bestow on countries we're at war with, that's for sure.

It all is.

[TheDriver]

It all is.

True, but my point (that wasn't clearly articulated) was we spend more on social security than the dept of defense. I think some around here forget that some time.

[low preference guy]

The increase above the pre war military budget which avoids the deficit cap by virtue of the exception in the balanced budget rule/amendment.

OK. So you can still increase overall non-military spending. Example:

Prewar budget: $10. $4 for the military, $6 for everything else.
War Budget: $20. The limit to spend in military would be, according to your rule, $10. That's the difference between the old and new budget. Thus, you can spend $10 for everything else, which is more than what you spent with the old budget.

[driege]

OK. So you can still increase overall non-military spending. Example:

Prewar budget: $10. $4 for the military, $6 for everything else.
War Budget: $20. The limit to spend in military would be, according to your rule, $10. That's the difference between the old and new budget. Thus, you can spend $10 for everything else, which is more than what you spent with the old budget.

Or you could limit the non-war spending to the previous level, $6.

[low preference guy]

Or you could limit the non-war spending to the previous level, $6.

that's the more strict rule i can imagine. but there will be opposition. for example: social security spending naturally has to increase year after year because the old people become more numerous. so many will oppose the rule.

i doubt it will pass, but i wouldn't be opposed to it.

[sailingaway]

OK. So you can still increase overall non-military spending. Example:

Prewar budget: $10. $4 for the military, $6 for everything else.
War Budget: $20. The limit to spend in military would be, according to your rule, $10. That's the difference between the old and new budget. Thus, you can spend $10 for everything else, which is more than what you spent with the old budget.

I didn't mean that. I meant if the military budget is $X and the war military is $X + $20, only that can go up, and only the extra $20 and spending must remain the same on all else.

I'm not defending having an amendment, I don't see much use in it and don't like opening the Constitution. I think the amendment would end up 2000 pages long and full of administrative regulations. But if there WERE one, I'd want it drafted tightly.

[low preference guy]

I didn't mean that. I meant if the military budget is $X and the war military is $X + $20, only that can go up, and only the extra $20 and spending must remain the same on all else.

what about social security spending that increases automatically because old people become more numerous every year?

[sailingaway]

what about social security spending that increases automatically because old people become more numerous every year?

Sigh... that should have stayed a dedicated fund as we require of insurers....

I guess per capita, but I think that has to be reformed in any event so that would have to be figured in. Or we could require cuts elsewhere to make it up. It depends on if we start from TODAY's numbers. Right now there is a LOT to cut.

[low preference guy]

Sigh... that should have stayed a dedicated fund as we require of insurers....

I guess per capita, but I think that has to be reformed in any event so that would have to be figured in. Or we could require cuts elsewhere to make it up. It depends on if we start from TODAY's numbers. Right now there is a LOT to cut.

I think the most we can get is requiring balanced budget when there aren't declared wars. Once you have a war, spending can go through the roof.