Loughner is one of two subscriptions on Rep. Giffords youtube channel

[TN_VOL]

Saw this on Lew Rockwell's site. Awesome site by the way...as if most of you guys didn't know. How weird is this? http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/74967.html

[pcosmar]

Saw this on Lew Rockwell's site. Awesome site by the way...as if most of you guys didn't know. How weird is this? http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/74967.html
Breadcrumbs. (A deliberate trail)
It is possible that the web site and the videos were made by someone else and posted recently to be found.

Do you, (or anybody) have any PROOF that those were created by and posted by Loughner ?
Or are you just parroting the media who reported these within minutes of the incident.

[Brett85]

This is unbelievably strange.

[MRoCkEd]

Do we know she (the staffer running it?) subscribed before the shooting? If so, that would be very strange indeed.

However, the staffer could have subscribed after the event when his youtube was found, to try and find out more about him.

[Bruno]

Do we know she (the staffer running it?) subscribed before the shooting? If so, that would be very strange indeed.

However, the staffer could have subscribed after the event when his youtube was found, to try and find out more about him.

There was a cache that showed it was last updated in December and she had been a subscriber at that time. ericsnow had posted it in a previous thread yesterday morning. I saw it as well before it was updated to Jan. 9th.

[brandon]

wow.....strange

[klamath]

WND has picked this angle up.

TUCSON MASSACRE
WorldNetDaily
Did Giffords subscribe
to assassin's YouTube



http://www.wnd.com/

[ronpaulhawaii]

There was a cache that showed it was last updated in December and she had been a subscriber at that time. ericisnow had posted it in a previous thread yesterday morning. I saw it as well before it was updated to Jan. 9th.

Hmmm... got a link to that cache? This one from 12/26 does not show the subscription

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2&d=4837078227420677&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=690cc22f,a75060d4

[Bruno]

Hmmm... got a link to that cache? This one from 12/26 does not show the subscription

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2&d=4837078227420677&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=690cc22f,a75060d4

Below is what was originally posted, more in this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275071-Congresswoman-shot-at-Ariz.-appearance&p=3058075#post3058075


WTF! On December 2nd Griffords' youtube page WAS NOT subscribed to Jared Loughner's. So sometime between December 3rd and the beginning of Janaury she decided to subscribe to him.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LpBmYniaOpcJ:www.youtube.com/user/giffords2+http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[runningdiz]

Breadcrumbs. (A deliberate trail)
It is possible that the web site and the videos were made by someone else and posted recently to be found.

Do you, (or anybody) have any PROOF that those were created by and posted by Loughner ?
Or are you just parroting the media who reported these within minutes of the incident.

Actually the videos were discovered by internet sleuths who researched his name once it was leaked. It was not discovered by the media as you imply. The media took hours to pick up on the video and myspace page. Since that discovery other people investigating (not the fbi or police) have found postings on forums that are obviously his. http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/

The posts match his nonsensical rants and the diagrams and drawings match the ones in the video. These posts are from over 6 months ago.

The media wants to paint this guy as someone with a political agenda and what has been found paints him as a complete lunatic incapable of a sane thought. Which is why the msm has ignored this evidence and continues to try to figure out what politically motivated him to murder a politician.

So why are you implying the msm would plant something that goes against the image they wish to create?

According to your logic there is no proof that Jared Loughner even did it. The only way we know he did it is because the msm has told us he is the suspect. So should we doubt that fact as well?

[MRoCkEd]

Below is what was originally posted, more in this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275071-Congresswoman-shot-at-Ariz.-appearance&p=3058075#post3058075
Yeah, so she WASN'T subscribed to him on December 2nd.
As RPH showed, she wasn't subscribed on December 26th either.

Makes it even more likely that it was done yesterday after his youtube was discovered.

[runningdiz]

Yeah, so she WASN'T subscribed to him on December 2nd.
As RPH showed, she wasn't subscribed on December 26th either.

Makes it even more likely that it was done yesterday after his youtube was discovered.

Yes what they could have seen is the cache updating. The date up top might have remained the same but the image was in the process of changing.

[specsaregood]

Yeah, so she WASN'T subscribed to him on December 2nd.
As RPH showed, she wasn't subscribed on December 26th either.

Makes it even more likely that it was done yesterday after his youtube was discovered.

Nope, somebody posted that yesterday that showed the account hadn't been logged into/had activity for a full day before the incident.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Nope, somebody posted that yesterday that showed the account hadn't been logged into/had activity for a full day before the incident.

I checked her account when the first reports were surfacing and it showed someone had logged in after the attack

[pcosmar]

Actually the videos were discovered by internet sleuths who researched his name once it was leaked. It was not discovered by the media as you imply. The media took hours to pick up on the video and myspace page. Since that discovery other people investigating (not the fbi or police) have found postings on forums that are obviously his. http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/

The posts match his nonsensical rants and the diagrams and drawings match the ones in the video. These posts are from over 6 months ago.

The media wants to paint this guy as someone with a political agenda and what has been found paints him as a complete lunatic incapable of a sane thought. Which is why the msm has ignored this evidence and continues to try to figure out what politically motivated him to murder a politician.

So why are you implying the msm would plant something that goes against the image they wish to create?

According to your logic there is no proof that Jared Loughner even did it. The only way we know he did it is because the msm has told us he is the suspect. So should we doubt that fact as well?

The You Tube page was created in October.
And I am not implying that the media created it, I believe it is being FED to the media.

I am not implying that he was not a shooter. I do question whether he was the only one, or if the focus is only on him. (one shot kills are rare)

I am wondering if he was manipulated by others.The focus on him excludes any other real investigation.
I am more interested in the Ballistic reports (if they are ever done)
I am interested in what Psyches had access to him and what Hypnotics he was given.

I am interested in something other than the spoon fed info that is inconclusive and prejudicial.

[pcosmar]

I checked her account when the first reports were surfacing and it showed someone had logged in after the attack

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7531/2d6af69edcf4.jpg

This was posted before the page was changed. It shows that last log in was 2 days before.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275071-Congresswoman-shot-at-Ariz.-appearance&p=3058022&viewfull=1#post3058022
post # 142

[ronpaulhawaii]

This was posted before the page was changed. It shows that last log in was 2 days before.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275071-Congresswoman-shot-at-Ariz.-appearance&p=3058022&viewfull=1#post3058022
post # 142

I saw it with my own eyes, 17 hours, +24 after attack. What threw me for a bit was that her "recent activity" box did not show a subscription and went back months. I went a checked my account and realized I could self delete anything from my "recent activity" box...

[runningdiz]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7531/2d6af69edcf4.jpg

This was posted before the page was changed. It shows that last log in was 2 days before.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?275071-Congresswoman-shot-at-Ariz.-appearance&p=3058022&viewfull=1#post3058022
post # 142

Hmm interesting but it says she logged in 2 days ago yet her recent activity is from 1 day ago?
How do you explain that?

Speaking from experience (I have no evidence or proof to provide). Youtube's last login how many views a video has etc. is not accurate sometimes. For example: I believe if your currently logged in it won't say it. So it only will say logged in 2 days ago when your currently logged in but when you log out it will say "last visit date 5 hours ago"

I could be wrong but it just seems how there system works.

[jclay2]

Wayback machine does not work for the youtube account.

Edit: Sorry, does not include 2006-present.

[runningdiz]

The You Tube page was created in October.
And I am not implying that the media created it, I believe it is being FED to the media.

I am not implying that he was not a shooter. I do question whether he was the only one, or if the focus is only on him. (one shot kills are rare)

I am wondering if he was manipulated by others.The focus on him excludes any other real investigation.
I am more interested in the Ballistic reports (if they are ever done)
I am interested in what Psyches had access to him and what Hypnotics he was given.

I am interested in something other than the spoon fed info that is inconclusive and prejudicial.

Interesting. I am wondering some of the same things as you. Hopefully those questions are answered in time.

What i don't get is why you think the media is spoon feeding us the youtube pages, posts, etc. when they're not. They're trying to paint a picture that this was done for political reasons and this evidence shows otherwise.

What the media IS doing is taking bits of what he said and trying to come up with his political motives. Like the bit about the currency. If you look at what he says as a whole it makes absolutely no sense. If you take a part of it out of context it can look like he is advocating for a gold/silver backed currency. <- This is what the media has done. Otherwise they have ignored what has been discovered.

[pcosmar]

The point is that the channel WAS subscribed to before the shooting. (When exactly is unknown)
It was removed sometime after the shooting.

Who put it there, or why, is in question.

[pcosmar]

Interesting. I am wondering some of the same things as you. Hopefully those questions are answered in time.

What i don't get is why you think the media is spoon feeding us the youtube pages, posts, etc. when they're not. They're trying to paint a picture that this was done for political reasons and this evidence shows otherwise.

What the media IS doing is taking bits of what he said and trying to come up with his political motives. Like the bit about the currency. If you look at what he says as a whole it makes absolutely no sense. If you take a part of it out of context it can look like he is advocating for a gold/silver backed currency. <- This is what the media has done. Otherwise they have ignored what has been discovered.

No. The media, and many here are taking speculation and calling it fact.

What the media IS doing is taking bits of what he said and trying to come up with his political motives.

There is a jump from Anonymous Postings, to "He Said".

I have a user name with several years of history. linked to my real name, In fact pcosmar IS my name.
This is a short history of several anonymous user names that are claimed to be this individual.
They may or may not be.
It would be quite easy to create a page, fill it with random bullshit pulled from across the web, and link it to a user name. Without the knowledge of the user.

It is proof of nothing.
It is speculation being presented as fact.

I also speculate, but admit that it is speculation. I post facts as facts and opinion as opinion.
My speculation and my opinion are not facts.

MK Ultra and mind control are facts.
Whether or not this guy was manipulated is speculation.
Just as whether these web postings are his, is speculation.

[runningdiz]

The point is that the channel WAS subscribed to before the shooting. (When exactly is unknown)
It was removed sometime after the shooting.

Who put it there, or why, is in question.

Well that screenshot is lacking an image of the google cache that says it was from such and such a date. So how do we know when this screenshot was taken or if it really is google cache.

Note in the screenshot the video in the recent activity says it was posted 1 day ago. If you go to her page now it says it was posted 3 days ago. That would mean the video was posted the Friday before the shooting. So since the screenshot shows the video was posted 1 day ago then the page shown in the screenshot had to be from Saturday.

[pcosmar]

Well that screenshot is lacking an image of the google cache that says it was from such and such a date. So how do we know when this screenshot was taken or if it really is google cache.

Note in the screenshot the video in the recent activity says it was posted 1 day ago. If you go to her page now it says it was posted 3 days ago. That would mean the video was posted the Friday before the shooting. So since the screenshot shows the video was posted 1 day ago then the page shown in the screenshot had to be from Saturday.

I visited her page on the day of the shooting and it was subscribed. Now it is not.
Some of us here were following this story from the moment it broke. First reports. and since.

When I first saw her page it WAS subscribed and her last log on was 2 days before.
It was there.

[runningdiz]

No. The media, and many here are taking speculation and calling it fact.


There is a jump from Anonymous Postings, to "He Said".

I have a user name with several years of history. linked to my real name, In fact pcosmar IS my name.
This is a short history of several anonymous user names that are claimed to be this individual.
They may or may not be.
It would be quite easy to create a page, fill it with random bullshit pulled from across the web, and link it to a user name. Without the knowledge of the user.

It is proof of nothing.
It is speculation being presented as fact.

I also speculate, but admit that it is speculation. I post facts as facts and opinion as opinion.
My speculation and my opinion are not facts.

MK Ultra and mind control are facts.
Whether or not this guy was manipulated is speculation.
Just as whether these web postings are his, is speculation.

I agree with you that it is not a cold hard fact but nothing really is to those of us observing from the outside. Nothing is wrong with speculating, investigating, and attempting to draw conclusions. We won't decide or influence anything. The guy shot 19 people and killed 6 whether or not he was controlled by somebody else he will spend the rest of his life in jail dreaming or whatever.

[ronpaulhawaii]

The point is that the channel WAS subscribed to before the shooting. (When exactly is unknown)
It was removed sometime after the shooting.

Who put it there, or why, is in question.

I can't see how we know that. The screencap you posted does not give the date. The cache link I posted was from 12/26 and the ch was not subscribed at that time. So the subscription would have happened between 12/26 and the day after the shooting, when I went there. The only thing removed is the "recent activity" entry... The whole thing is strange, that is for sure.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I visited her page on the day of the shooting and it was subscribed. Now it is not.
...


Hmmm... still is for me

http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

[jclay2]

What time was that exactly pcosmar?

[runningdiz]

I visited her page on the day of the shooting and it was subscribed. Now it is not.
Some of us here were following this story from the moment it broke. First reports. and since.

When I first saw her page it WAS subscribed and her last log on was 2 days before.
It was there.

You saw the page after the shooting not before. A person was probably logged on while you were looking at the page and subscribed to the shooters account. Note that it says Last Visit Date: ____ So if a person was logged on it would not say Online. It would say when the last visit day was.

[pcosmar]

What time was that exactly pcosmar?

Not sure of exact time. but was posting in the other thread at the time (for time frame)

[pcosmar]

Hmmm... still is for me

http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

That is odd. I visited yesterday and it was gone. (12 hours from last activity).
It was obvious that she hadn't changed it herself. (still in surgery)

[heavenlyboy34]

another amusing tidbit from the LRC blog:

Writes Tracy Schumer:

Just reading over the reports on the shooting in Arizona: So where were the cops? The heavily armed shooter was eventually taken down by two unarmed bystanders! Two private citizens with a lot of guts I say— real heroes; and no help from the cops! The killer walks up, shoots the Congresswoman, a Federal Judge, and SIXTEEN other people — this takes time. WHERE WERE THE COPS?? I guess they were too busy tazing children and old folks.

;)

[Bruno]

another amusing tidbit from the LRC blog:

Writes Tracy Schumer:

Just reading over the reports on the shooting in Arizona: So where were the cops? The heavily armed shooter was eventually taken down by two unarmed bystanders! Two private citizens with a lot of guts I say— real heroes; and no help from the cops! The killer walks up, shoots the Congresswoman, a Federal Judge, and SIXTEEN other people — this takes time. WHERE WERE THE COPS?? I guess they were too busy tazing children and old folks.

;)

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

[runningdiz]

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Yup soooo true.

[cavalier973]

another amusing tidbit from the LRC blog:

Writes Tracy Schumer:

Just reading over the reports on the shooting in Arizona: So where were the cops? The heavily armed shooter was eventually taken down by two unarmed bystanders! Two private citizens with a lot of guts I say— real heroes; and no help from the cops! The killer walks up, shoots the Congresswoman, a Federal Judge, and SIXTEEN other people — this takes time. WHERE WERE THE COPS?? I guess they were too busy tazing children and old folks.

;)

When he tried to reload, a 61-year old woman snatched the magazine from his hand. Then someone hit him from behind with a chair. A 74-year old man grabbed his left arm and forced it down. Someone else grabbed his other arm and helped force him to the ground. The 74-year old asked him "Why in the world would you do something like this?" Loughner wouldn't answer him...

http://www.wnep.com/wnep-schyl-man-tackled-az-gunman-schuylkill-ties,0,7811918.story

http://www.smh.com.au/world/how-a-61yearold-woman-stopped-more-killings-in-mall-rampage-20110110-19kcq.html

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Actually the videos were discovered by internet sleuths who researched his name once it was leaked. It was not discovered by the media as you imply. The media took hours to pick up on the video and myspace page. Since that discovery other people investigating (not the fbi or police) have found postings on forums that are obviously his. http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/


Yes, internet slueths who find a youtube page that just happens to use his full name - first name, middle name, and last name. How unusual is that?

I concur with the first poster. This looks fake. The fact that there is now a link from the Congresswoman's webpage to his alleged page casts the whole thing into doubt.

[runningdiz]

Yes, internet slueths who find a youtube page that uses his full name, first, middle, and last name. How unusual is that?

I concur with the first poster. This looks fake. The fact that there is now a link from the Congresswoman's webpage to his alleged page casts the whole thing into doubt.

Well if he wanted people to see it he would put his first middle and last name on the youtube page. How do we know he wanted people to see it? One video is entitled into (as in an intro to his beliefs) another video has a goodbye message.

He knew people would know his name after he killed a congresswoman so that is why he tagged his name to the youtube page so people would find it.

Just because the congresswoman is subscribed to the supposed killer does not mean the youtube page is fake. Nobody has proved it was subscribed before the shooting.

I am not saying i don't have my doubts about this thing. It just seems like some people are grabbing at straws and are ignoring things because they want this to be a conspiracy theory about mind control or something.

[Bruno]

Well if he wanted people to see it he would put his first middle and last name on the youtube page. How do we know he wanted people to see it? One video is entitled into (as in an intro to his beliefs) another video has a goodbye message.

He knew people would know his name after he killed a congresswoman so that is why he tagged his name to the youtube page so people would find it.

Just because the congresswoman is subscribed to the supposed killer does not mean the youtube page is fake. Nobody has proved it was subscribed before the shooting.

I am not saying i don't have my doubts about this thing. It just seems like some people are grabbing at straws and are ignoring things because they want this to be a conspiracy theory about mind control or something.

What is the logic behind the speculation that it was added after the shooting? Wouldn't that be in poor taste, and wouldn't we have heard about that reasoning from the media? The fact that they aren't talking about it creates more questions than it answers.

[specsaregood]

What is the logic behind the speculation that it was added after the shooting? Wouldn't that be in poor taste, and wouldn't we have heard about that reasoning from the media? The fact that they aren't talking about it creates more questions than it answers.

Yeah what staffer would go and subscribe to the attackers youtube page, immediately after the attack?
More likely is they got a pm asking them to subscribe, claiming to be a constituent or something and never botherd to check it out.

[Bruno]

Yeah what staffer would go and subscribe to the attackers youtube page, immediately after the attack?
More likely is they got a pm asking them to subscribe, claiming to be a constituent or something and never botherd to check it out.

Possibly, and of course, I'm speculating, but I would think they would get many such requests. The fact that she only subscribed to two pages, and his was one of them, is odd.

[runningdiz]

What is the logic behind the speculation that it was added after the shooting? Wouldn't that be in poor taste, and wouldn't we have heard about that reasoning from the media? The fact that they aren't talking about it creates more questions than it answers.

I understand that it is weird but maybe the staffer wanted to do it so they could find it easily later from home. Maybe someone did it so they could easily direct someone to it. All speculation.

Nobody has offered proof that it was subscribed to before the shooting. It might be poor taste but because someone subscribed to the shooters page does not mean or pove anything.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

There is a lot of things that might led you to doubt the youtube page as real, which people noticed when it was first posted.
That includes using his full first name, middle name, and last name - most people don't do that,
but if you want to make sure the media find it you do.

Ok, that was strange. But then sticking it on the congresswoman's webpage. Ok, someone really really wants that page found.

I'm not buying it. PROVE that it is the shooters webpage and not a plant from some handler of his personally or someone "managing" the shooting's media perception.

[vita3]

It looks like the kids was paying close atttention to his Congressman, for awhile.

[oyarde]

The You Tube page was created in October.
And I am not implying that the media created it, I believe it is being FED to the media.

I am not implying that he was not a shooter. I do question whether he was the only one, or if the focus is only on him. (one shot kills are rare)

I am wondering if he was manipulated by others.The focus on him excludes any other real investigation.
I am more interested in the Ballistic reports (if they are ever done)
I am interested in what Psyches had access to him and what Hypnotics he was given.

I am interested in something other than the spoon fed info that is inconclusive and prejudicial.

Good point that 6 dead, 19 wounded out of 31 rounds ( ? ) for a complete madman ?

[runningdiz]

There is a lot of things that might led you to doubt the youtube page as real, which people noticed when it was first posted.
That includes using his full first name, middle name, and last name - most people don't do that,
but if you want to make sure the media find it you do.

Ok, that was strange. But then sticking it on the congresswoman's webpage. Ok, someone really really wants that page found.

I'm not buying it. PROVE that it is the shooters webpage and not a plant from some handler of his personally or someone "managing" the shooting's media perception.

You do realize he did not subscribe to her. Somebody on the congresswoman's staff subscribed to him.

I can't and am not trying to prove it was his youtube channel. Just like you can't prove someone is controlling him etc.

[Bruno]

You do realize he did not subscribe to her. Somebody on the congresswoman's staff subscribed to him.


THAT is also speculation.

[runningdiz]

THAT is also speculation.

SOmebody who had access to the congresswoman's youtube channel subscribed to him. Edit.. and just unsubscribed to him lol Can we agree on all that ;)

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

You do realize he did not subscribe to her. Somebody on the congresswoman's staff subscribed to him.

I can't and am not trying to prove it was his youtube channel. Just like you can't prove someone is controlling him etc.

Someone other then him "controlled" putting that link on the Congresswoman's website.

This is being managed at the very least in that regard. The fact that his name is spelled out in full on his alleged youtube
has the same purpose as putting it as a link on the Congresswoman's website. For the media to find it.

There is no proof that the youtube channel is even his. After that fact, there is no reason to automatically assume it is.

Edit: Does he even use his real voice on the youtube channel? Odd if not, since he wanted to use his full name - which he didn't anywhere else on line.

[Bruno]

SOmebody who had access to the congresswoman's youtube channel subscribed to him.

Certainly. But it could also have been her. It could also have been someone outside of her staff, such as a member of government. We don't know at this point.

[awake]

How Obama Will Distort the Shootings By One Nut Job: A Case Study of Bill Clinton and the Oklahoma City Bombing (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/01/how-obama-will-distort-shootings-by-one.html)


By Byron York

There are reports Democrats plan an extensive effort to link the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Republicans in general to the shootings in Arizona. The idea is to pin blame on those groups much as Bill Clinton was able to pin blame on Newt Gingrich, Limbaugh, and Republicans in the aftermath of the April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. It's an effort that was previewed last year, on the 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City attack, when Clinton himself tried out some of the themes we are hearing today in the aftermath of violence in Arizona. Here's what I wrote at the time:

With the 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing Monday [4/19/10], former President Bill Clinton is playing a starring role in the liberal effort to draw what the New York Times calls "parallels between the antigovernment tone that preceded that devastating attack and the political tumult of today." The short version of the narrative is: Today's Tea Partiers are tomorrow's right-wing bombers.

On Friday, Clinton spoke at a symposium on the bombing organized by the liberal think tank Center for American Progress, founded and run by John Podesta, the former Clinton White House chief of staff who also directed the Obama transition. The theme of Clinton's remarks was that movements like the Tea Party, characterized by extreme right-wing rhetoric, could lead to political violence. In the last few days, news accounts in the Times ("Recalling '95 Bombing, Clinton Sees Parallels"), Newsweek ("Hate: Antigovernment extremists are on the rise -- and on the march"), and ABC News ("Watch your words") drove home Clinton's point. "This is a legitimate thing to do," the former president said, "drawing parallels to the time running up to Oklahoma City and a lot of the political discord that exists in our country today."

What Clinton and his supporters do not talk about is the way in which Clinton, aided by pollster/adviser Dick Morris, exploited the bombing to make a political comeback from what was the lowest point in Clinton's presidency to that time. (The Lewinsky scandal was still three years in the future.) In the days after Oklahoma City, Clinton and Morris devised a plan to use the bombing to discredit and outmaneuver the new Republican majority in Congress.

Clinton was in deep political trouble in April 1995. Six months earlier, voters had resoundingly rejected Democrats in the 1994 mid-term elections, giving the GOP control of both House and Senate. Polls showed the public viewed Clinton as weak, incompetent and ineffective. House Speaker Newt Gingrich and his GOP forces seized the initiative on virtually every significant issue, while Clinton appeared to be politically dead. The worst moment may have come on April 18, the day before the bombing, when Clinton plaintively told reporters, "The president is still relevant here."

And then came the explosion at the Murrah Federal Building. In addition to seeing a criminal act and human loss, Clinton and Morris saw opportunity. If the White House could tie Gingrich, congressional Republicans and conservative voices like Rush Limbaugh to the attack, then Clinton might gain the edge in the fight against the GOP.

Morris began polling about Oklahoma City almost immediately after the bombing. On April 23, four days after the attack, Clinton appeared to point the finger straight at his political opponents during a speech in Minneapolis. "We hear so many loud and angry voices in America today whose sole goal seems to be to try to keep some people as paranoid as possible and the rest of us all torn up and upset with each other," he said. "They spread hate. They leave the impression that, by their very words, that violence is acceptable."

At a White House meeting four days later, on April 27, Morris presented Clinton with a comeback strategy based on his polling. Morris prepared an extensive agenda for the session, a copy of which he would include in the paperback version of his memoir, Behind the Oval Office. This is how the April 27 agenda began:



AFTERMATH OF OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING

A. Temporary gain: boost in ratings -- here today, gone tomorrow

B. More permanent gain: Improvements in character/personality attributes -- remedies weakness, incompetence, ineffectiveness found in recent poll

C. Permanent possible gain: sets up Extremist Issue vs. RepublicansLater, under the heading "How to use extremism as issue against Republicans," Morris told Clinton that "direct accusations" of extremism wouldn't work because the Republicans were not, in fact, extremists. Rather, Morris recommended what he called the "ricochet theory." Clinton would "stimulate national concern over extremism and terror," and then, "when issue is at top of national agenda, suspicion naturally gravitates to Republicans." As that happened, Morris recommended, Clinton would use his executive authority to impose "intrusive" measures against so-called extremist groups. Clinton would explain that such intrusive measures were necessary to prevent future violence, knowing that his actions would, Morris wrote, "provoke outrage by extremist groups who will write their local Republican congressmen." Then, if members of Congress complained, that would "link right-wing of the party to extremist groups." The net effect, Morris concluded, would be "self-inflicted linkage between [GOP] and extremists."

[runningdiz]

Certainly. But it could also have been her. It could also have been someone outside of her staff, such as a member of government. We don't know at this point.

Agreed. It could not have been her though since she is in the hospital.

[awake]

Another angle ref. the debt ceiling: This whole despicable indecent can be used as a veiled threat; Vote to not raise it and you will have 100's of lone nuts possibly targeting their congress people... so vote to keep the dole machine going - or else.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

I wonder if "BoyBlue", who claimed to have helped her enough to be recognizable to her staff - $100,000, had access to, or knew someone who did, to edit her homepage.

[Bruno]

Agreed. It could not have been her though since she is in the hospital.

I believe it is still uncertain that the page was positively subscribed to after the shooting, though I could be wrong, I haven't read all the posts.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Another angle ref. the debt ceiling: This whole despicable indecent can be used as a veiled threat; Vote to not raise it and you will have 100's of lone nuts possibly targeting their congress people... so vote to keep the dole machine going - or else.

That's why BoyBlue's post becomes significant, as a veiled threat.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

That's why BoyBlue's post becomes significant, as a veiled threat.

Actually, if the congresswoman was on Kos, and used the same password, the attacker could have logged on that way, and deleted the activity from the log per the above thread.

Remember, Kos and specifically BoyBlue have a motive to make sure this is a "lone nut" that doesn't involve anyone else.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

I believe it is still uncertain that the page was positively subscribed to after the shooting, though I could be wrong, I haven't read all the posts.

I don't see why her page couldn't have subscribed to the other before her shooting. BlueBoy's posting seems to have happened before the shooting as well from that angle and if there is any thing there.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Since we are talking about two things that seem to imply knowledge of the murder before it happened, lets look at BoyBlue's post again.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2011/1/6/933828/-.html.
My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
By BoyBlue
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:07:17 AM PST
I am from the Tucson area and live in Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords' district. I worked like a dog for her elections when she was in the Arizona House, surrounded by rightwing nutcases. When Arizona re-districted in 2002, a seat opened up and she was right smack in the middle of it. So was I because I live in Oro Valley, Arizona, which is at the heart of that - then - new CD. I was one of several people to talk her into running and pledging complete loyalty and pledging to raise as much money as possible for her.
She ended up running for the first time against a fellow AZ House member, Randy Graf who was a rightwing whacko who advocated guns in bars and was the"Russell Pearce before Russell Pearce" vis-a-vis border issues. With a LOT of hard work and plenty of money, Gabby won. Easier than thought, too. I never like to throw money in people's faces, but i have given Gabrielle Giffords THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in both good times and bad times for me financially.
________________________________________
Fast forward to this election season. A weirdo asshole named Jesse Kelly who advocated ELIMINATING Social Security and was a tea bagger favorite got the GOP nom to run against her. I am gay and had been married and my spouse left me January 15, 2010. I shot myself in the mouth in a serious suicide attempt, because of that. Barely surviving, I spent two months in the hospital and still have some paralysis. I did receive a severance from my employer, as i had been laid off in December, 2009. That may have been part of the reason my spouse left me.
Anyway, after months of physical and mental rehab, I got back into the political scene and started working for Gabby once again. I raised over $100,000 for her and maxed her out myself out of my severance, even though i still don't have work and could not qualify for state aid because of my severance.
She wins her re-election and told me she was still a supporter of Speaker Pelosi at her victory party. We talked about how Nancy Pelosi was a successful woman and accomplished oh so much in just four years as Speaker.
Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservativeDemocrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[pcosmar]

Someone other then him "controlled" putting that link on the Congresswoman's website.

This is being managed at the very least in that regard. The fact that his name is spelled out in full on his alleged youtube
has the same purpose as putting it as a link on the Congresswoman's website. For the media to find it.

There is no proof that the youtube channel is even his. After that fact, there is no reason to automatically assume it is.

Edit: Does he even use his real voice on the youtube channel? Odd if not, since he wanted to use his full name - which he didn't anywhere else on line.

Interesting thing,
Since you mention the Full Name. When the shooters name was first released to the media (presumably the search followed) it was incorrectly "Jason Laughner "

Now how do you jump to "Jerad Loughner" unless you knew where to look?
Then there was the whole Boy Blue thing to steer the thought processes. (false trail)

Curious stuff.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

You see, BoyBlue claims to have worked for the Congresswoman.


Since we are talking about two things that seem to imply knowledge of the murder before it happened, lets look at BoyBlue's post again.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2011/1/6/933828/-.html.
My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
By BoyBlue
On Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:07:17 AM PST
I am from the Tucson area and live in Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords' district. I worked like a dog for her elections when she was in the Arizona House, surrounded by rightwing nutcases. When Arizona re-districted in 2002, a seat opened up and she was right smack in the middle of it. So was I because I live in Oro Valley, Arizona, which is at the heart of that - then - new CD. I was one of several people to talk her into running and pledging complete loyalty and pledging to raise as much money as possible for her.
She ended up running for the first time against a fellow AZ House member, Randy Graf who was a rightwing whacko who advocated guns in bars and was the"Russell Pearce before Russell Pearce" vis-a-vis border issues. With a LOT of hard work and plenty of money, Gabby won. Easier than thought, too. I never like to throw money in people's faces, but i have given Gabrielle Giffords THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in both good times and bad times for me financially.
________________________________________
Fast forward to this election season. A weirdo asshole named Jesse Kelly who advocated ELIMINATING Social Security and was a tea bagger favorite got the GOP nom to run against her. I am gay and had been married and my spouse left me January 15, 2010. I shot myself in the mouth in a serious suicide attempt, because of that. Barely surviving, I spent two months in the hospital and still have some paralysis. I did receive a severance from my employer, as i had been laid off in December, 2009. That may have been part of the reason my spouse left me.
Anyway, after months of physical and mental rehab, I got back into the political scene and started working for Gabby once again. I raised over $100,000 for her and maxed her out myself out of my severance, even though i still don't have work and could not qualify for state aid because of my severance.
She wins her re-election and told me she was still a supporter of Speaker Pelosi at her victory party. We talked about how Nancy Pelosi was a successful woman and accomplished oh so much in just four years as Speaker.
Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservativeDemocrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Then there was the whole Boy Blue thing to steer the thought processes. (false trail)

Curious stuff.

And putting a link on the Congresswoman's site isn't a false trail? BoyBlue claimed in another message to have met with staffers that were unhappy with the Congresswoman earlier. He had access to her website, or knew someone who did.

You now have a group of people, and two things from that group that seem to have happened before the murder - pre knowledge.

[pcosmar]

And putting a link on the Congresswoman's site isn't a false trail? BoyBlue claimed in another message to have met with staffers that were unhappy with the Congresswoman earlier. He had access to her website, or knew someone who did.

You know have a group of people, and two things from that group that seem to have happened before the murder - pre knowledge.

False trails? or a trail of breadcrumbs.

I am just not a big coincidence theorist.

[eOs]

This idiot kid is the quintessential posterboy for government. Using violence to solve man's problems since its inception. If that's the case, then we can conclude that government by force is indeed nuts.

[Kregisen]

The youtube account is not fake, it was uploaded months ago and like others have said, if he's been planning something to get national media coverage over, of course he's gonna put his full name in his videos.

As for the subscription, there's a couple likely scenarios.

#1: someone hacked into her account and subbed before the shooting.

#2: a staffer of hers subbed to his account after the shooting, either thinking they were on their own account (not the congresswoman's), or knew they were on that account but just did it to direct other people to the shooter's account. Who knows.


I think the whole thing is very interesting, and I'm surprised that a horde of senior citizens actually took down a 22-year old dude with a 9mm....

[torchbearer]

This idiot kid is the quintessential posterboy for government. Using violence to solve man's problems since its inception. If that's the case, then we can conclude that government by force is indeed nuts.

if the government is using force against you, as in, an initiation of force against you. do you not have the right to defend yourself?
is a man who defends his home from the IRS a nut or a sane human trying to protect what is his?
a simpleton sees all violence as the same, but some violence is a response to violence used in defense. otherwise you have no rights and no self-ownership as long as someone else wished to take it from you.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

False trails? or a trail of breadcrumbs.

I am just not a big coincidence theorist.

I'm not either. I'm forming a story that fits all the facts so it can be tested out. No one has a story that explains all the facts or is verified as true yet.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

The youtube account is not fake, it was uploaded months ago and like others have said, if he's been planning something to get national media coverage over, of course he's gonna put his full name in his videos.

As for the subscription, there's a couple likely scenarios.

#1: someone hacked into her account and subbed before the shooting.

#2: a staffer of hers subbed to his account after the shooting, either thinking they were on their own account (not the congresswoman's), or knew they were on that account but just did it to direct other people to the shooter's account. Who knows.


I think the whole thing is very interesting, and I'm surprised that a horde of senior citizens actually took down a 22-year old dude with a 9mm....

How does it happened months ago prove anything? Someone was planning to kill her months ago and found a patsy to take the fall, months ago. Every patsy that ever was, was picked before it happened. I'm not saying the shooter didn't do it. I'm saying it isn't proved the youtube is his. The link isn't his. The link required someone else. That doesn't match, and if anyone else was involved or knew, they have an interest to make sure it is thought it was alone. So they link it from the Congresswoman's webpage, because it better be true that he was a lone crazy.

What is more interesting is what happened *before* the murder that doesn't make sense. BlueBoy's post doesn't make sense. The link doesn't make sense. BlueBoy worked for the Congresswoman. If the account wasn't hacked, someone from the Congresswoman's office did it.

[runningdiz]

This idiot kid is the quintessential posterboy for government. Using violence to solve man's problems since its inception. If that's the case, then we can conclude that government by force is indeed nuts.

Love the perspective eOs never thought of it that way.

[runningdiz]

if the government is using force against you, as in, an initiation of force against you. do you not have the right to defend yourself?
is a man who defends his home from the IRS a nut or a sane human trying to protect what is his?
a simpleton sees all violence as the same, but some violence is a response to violence used in defense. otherwise you have no rights and no self-ownership as long as someone else wished to take it from you.
I think he meant using violence against the innocent.

[torchbearer]

I think he meant using violence against the innocent.

maybe that was inferred, i didn't read any qualifiers in the statement he made.

[devil21]

Interesting thoughts on this thread. Something does seem rather like a story is attempted to be painted. I wonder what Giffords had on her upcoming schedule of meetings and what, if any, bills she was going to introduce. A recently re-elected (by a slim margin) Democrat in a conservative state that did NOT vote for Pelosi sounds like she's bucking the system enough to get someone's attention?

Also notice that the attorney appointed to represent the shooter is the same attorney that "handled" Tim McVeigh's case, the Unabomber, and other people specifically portrayed as being against the government, but also where conspiracy theories of false flags have circulated, particularly OKC. On the surface that sounds like they want someone experienced in high profile cases. To a conspiracy minded individual like me, it sounds like they want someone who will play ball with the government and not make any commotion regarding the inconsistencies, possible cover-ups, and evidence of conspiracy. This is obviously someone the Feds have a relationship with and someone who will make a TON of money on this case, at taxpayer expense. This attorney has a vested financial interest in not rocking the boat.

[pcosmar]

Interesting thoughts on this thread. Something does seem rather like a story is attempted to be painted. I wonder what Giffords had on her upcoming schedule of meetings and what, if any, bills she was going to introduce. A recently re-elected (by a slim margin) Democrat in a conservative state that did NOT vote for Pelosi sounds like she's bucking the system enough to get someone's attention?

Also notice that the attorney appointed to represent the shooter is the same attorney that "handled" Tim McVeigh's case, the Unabomber, and other people specifically portrayed as being against the government, but also where conspiracy theories of false flags have circulated, particularly OKC. On the surface that sounds like they want someone experienced in high profile cases. To a conspiracy minded individual like me, it sounds like they want someone who will play ball with the government and not make any commotion regarding the inconsistencies, possible cover-ups, and evidence of conspiracy. This is obviously someone the Feds have a relationship with and someone who will make a TON of money on this case, at taxpayer expense. This attorney had a vested financial interest in not rocking the boat.

Got more info on the lawyer? Source.
That is a curious "coincidence".

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Explain these three things:

1. Why BlueBoy's post on Kos seems to predict the murder two days before it happened.
BlueBoy used to work for the congresswoman.

2. Why Jared's full name is used on his facebook page, First, Middle and Last, when similar posts on
Above Top Secret two months before the youtubes; he uses a handle. The videos are pretty much
a cut and past from those. If he is doing it for fame, why doesn't he use his own voice or face? which is
a better way to identify that it really is him.

3. Why Jared's youtube channel is linked on the Congresswoman's page, possibly before the murders (like #1 above)? Doesn't
this require, most likely, a staff person to do it, or else someone hacked it. Why?

Yes, I know, #1 it's a coincidence, #2 it's a coincidence, and #3 it's a coincidence, and we aren't allowed to form
hypotheses to fit facts, but even coincidence doesn't explain 3. Someone put it there, it didn't
put itself there.

[devil21]

Got more info on the lawyer? Source.
That is a curious "coincidence".

Easy, it's all over the news articles.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot


PHOENIX – The nation got its first look on Monday at the 22-year-old loner accused of trying to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Jared Loughner, head shaved, a cut above the right temple and his hands cuffed, scanned a packed courtroom and sat down.

His attorney, who defended "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski, whispered to him.

The judge asked Loughner if he understood that he could get life in prison — or the death penalty — for killing federal Judge John Roll, one of the six who died in the shooting rampage at Giffords' meeting with constituents on Saturday in Tucson.

"Yes," he said, standing at a lecturn in his beige prison jumpsuit. His attorney, Judy Clarke, stood nearby, as did a U.S. marshal

Another:
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/national/Arizona-shooting-suspect-Jared-Loughner-to-be-represented-by-Timothy-McVeigh's-attorney



The suspect in a deadly Arizona shooting is being held without bail and has been assigned a lawyer who defended Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Timothy McVeigh.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Also notice that the attorney appointed to represent the shooter is the same attorney that "handled" Tim McVeigh's case, the Unabomber, and other people specifically portrayed as being against the government, but also where conspiracy theories of false flags have circulated, particularly OKC. On the surface that sounds like they want someone experienced in high profile cases. To a conspiracy minded individual like me, it sounds like they want someone who will play ball with the government and not make any commotion regarding the inconsistencies, possible cover-ups, and evidence of conspiracy. This is obviously someone the Feds have a relationship with and someone who will make a TON of money on this case, at taxpayer expense. This attorney has a vested financial interest in not rocking the boat.

Good point. I read that, thought it an interesting fact, but was too focused on other parts of the story.

[pcosmar]

Easy, it's all over the news articles.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

Another:
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/national/Arizona-shooting-suspect-Jared-Loughner-to-be-represented-by-Timothy-McVeigh's-attorney

Yup, Thanks. Just saw that in another thread.

Wonder how he got that gig. and when?
Odd ,,, McVeigh was a government soldier pulling off the biggest False Flag attack to date.
Ted Kaczynski was an MK Ultra subject.

The lawyer didn't do much for either of them.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Yup, Thanks. Just saw that in another thread.

Wonder how he got that gig. and when?
Odd ,,, McVeigh was a government soldier pulling off the biggest False Flag attack to date.
Ted Kaczynski was an MK Ultra subject.

The lawyer didn't do much for either of them.

A human skull and candles was just found in the shooters home today. As much as I want to pin this on the occult or some type of brainwashing
(like MK Ultra I suppose), the occult didn't put a link on the Congresswoman's homepage (or a message on Daily Kos).

I'll get back to occult explanations when odd real world facts run out.

[pcosmar]

A human skull and candles was just found in the shooters home today. As much as I want to pin this on the occult or some type of brainwashing
(like MK Ultra I suppose), the occult didn't put a link on the Congresswoman's homepage (or a message on Daily Kos).

I'll get back to occult explanations when odd real world facts run out.

Nope, but there are links between satanic rituals and Mind control / Mk Ultra.
Listen to some of the victim testimony. It would not be surprising or out of place.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Nope, but there are links between satanic rituals and Mind control / Mk Ultra.
Listen to some of the victim testimony. It would not be surprising or out of place.

I know. But if it is mind control, it leads back to other people, which follows the first route I was suggesting.
If it is the devil, there doesn't need to be other people involved, it may just be self hypnotism and delusion.

BlueBoy claims he tried to shoot himself too. Perhaps the congresswoman just had a bunch of nuts working for her all at the same time. But I doubt that is all there is for some reason.

[oyarde]

Yup, Thanks. Just saw that in another thread.

Wonder how he got that gig. and when?
Odd ,,, McVeigh was a government soldier pulling off the biggest False Flag attack to date.
Ted Kaczynski was an MK Ultra subject.

The lawyer didn't do much for either of them.

Lawyer has no ability to do anything here .....

[dannno]

This thread is driving me nuts, I keep going through the list and seeing "Girlfriend's youtube channel" instead of "Gifford's youtube channel" and it gets me excited and makes me want to click.

[BenIsForRon]

Blueboy is a different person, stop bringing him up. You're only confusing everybody.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Blueboy is a different person, stop bringing him up. You're only confusing everybody.

Facts tend to do that.

The shooter didn't put the link on the Congresswoman's page. Blueboy may have been able to do that or knew someone who could.

There is no reason to automatically believe the youtube channel is the shooters, given the fact of the link on the Congresswoman's page where it doesn't belong. Someone else plotting a murder using Jared could have created the youtube channel as well. A suicide note written in someone elses hand, or in this case, a bunch of youtube videos with no voice - just generated text.

BlueBoy's post has widely been seen as pre-knowledge of the murder and he worked for the Congresswoman. Giving the new story about the odd link on the Congresswoman's page, he could have put it there as well, or knew someone who did. Someone put it there.

Shoot, for all we know, BlueBoy could have followed the link, talked to the shooter, and be completely innocent if the link was there for awhile. Since BlueBoy had an interest in the Congresswoman, and raised 100,000 dollars for her, why wouldn't he follow one of only two links she subscribed to, and talk to someone else from his own area that also worked for the Congresswoman once and seemed *so* similar to himself that for several days, people thought the were the same person.

[runningdiz]

Explain these three things:

1. Why BlueBoy's post on Kos seems to predict the murder two days before it happened.
BlueBoy used to work for the congresswoman.

2. Why Jared's full name is used on his facebook page, First, Middle and Last, when similar posts on
Above Top Secret two months before the youtubes; he uses a handle. The videos are pretty much
a cut and past from those. If he is doing it for fame, why doesn't he use his own voice or face? which is
a better way to identify that it really is him.

3. Why Jared's youtube channel is linked on the Congresswoman's page, possibly before the murders (like #1 above)? Doesn't
this require, most likely, a staff person to do it, or else someone hacked it. Why?

Yes, I know, #1 it's a coincidence, #2 it's a coincidence, and #3 it's a coincidence, and we aren't allowed to form
hypotheses to fit facts, but even coincidence doesn't explain 3. Someone put it there, it didn't
put itself there.

1. All he said is "she is dead to me" how is that predicting someone attempting to murder her?
2. He wanted people to find his writings after he killed everyone. He might have had the other accounts before he decided to do all of this.
3. Again, Jared's supposed youtube channel was not subscribed to the congresswoman. The congresswoman's youtube channel was subscribed to Jared's. It has been shown that it was subscribed to after the shooting. There could be several explanations why someone did this but since it occurred after the shooting it proves nothing.

[oyarde]

A human skull and candles was just found in the shooters home today. As much as I want to pin this on the occult or some type of brainwashing
(like MK Ultra I suppose), the occult didn't put a link on the Congresswoman's homepage (or a message on Daily Kos).

I'll get back to occult explanations when odd real world facts run out.

It may not be satanic . Looks much like the shrines you see in Mexico used by the cartels as sort of the patron Saint for them .

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

1. All he said is "she is dead to me" how is that predicting someone attempting to murder her?

The part about dead is in caps, and ungrammatical. It's emphasized. It's followed by talk about gun violence and being crazy. He's in the same city, and worked for the congresswoman, it isn't some random post from someone somewhere in the nation. Most people saw the post exactly as that when initially reading it, hence all the uproar in the media, and blueboy deleting the post (and his facebook account as well).


1. All he said is "she is dead to me" how is that predicting someone attempting to murder her
2. He wanted people to find his writings after he killed everyone. He might have had the other accounts before he decided to do all of this.

Its a copy of the same posts from 2 months before. He didn't use his name then. I'm not sure I would think about using
my middle name myself - most people don't know it unless you are someone with my id. If he was part of a brainwashing setup or witchcraft victim
he isn't the only one interested in him being found only.


3. Again, Jared's supposed youtube channel was not subscribed to the congresswoman. The congresswoman's youtube channel was subscribed to Jared's. It has been shown that it was subscribed to after the shooting. There could be several explanations why someone did this but since it occurred after the shooting it proves nothing.

I am sure that hasn't been shown, because I talked to the reporter that covered this story.

[runningdiz]

The part about dead is in caps, and ungrammatical. It's emphasized. It's followed by talk about gun violence and being crazy. He's in the same city, and worked for the congresswoman, it isn't some random post from someone somewhere in the nation. Most people saw the post exactly as that when initially reading it, hence all the uproar in the media, and blueboy deleting the post (and his facebook account as well).


Its a copy of the same posts from 2 months before. He didn't use his name then. I'm not sure I would think about using
my middle name myself - most people don't know it unless you are someone with my id. If he was part of a brainwashing setup or witchcraft victim
he isn't the only one interested in him being found only.



I am sure that hasn't been shown, because I talked to the reporter that covered this story.
blueboy deleted it because his post drew attention before the suspects name was released. Once it was released everyone could care less about him except for you. I would expect most of Gifford's followers would be from her district because those were probably the only people who heard of her before this. She was not a nationally known congressional politician like barney frank, pelosi, ron paul etc.

To your last point maybe you should look for yourself instead of believing what some reporter told you. The screen shot you're referring to is on page 2.
Here is what I posted before:

Note in the screenshot the video in the recent activity says it was posted 1 day ago. If you go to her page now it says it was posted 3 days ago. That would mean the video was posted the Friday before the shooting. (which is when the interview for that video took place on foxnews) So since the screenshot shows the video was posted 1 day ago then the page shown in the screenshot had to be from Saturday which is the day the shooting occurred.

[Kregisen]

How does it happened months ago prove anything? Someone was planning to kill her months ago and found a patsy to take the fall, months ago. Every patsy that ever was, was picked before it happened. I'm not saying the shooter didn't do it. I'm saying it isn't proved the youtube is his. The link isn't his. The link required someone else. That doesn't match, and if anyone else was involved or knew, they have an interest to make sure it is thought it was alone. So they link it from the Congresswoman's webpage, because it better be true that he was a lone crazy.

What is more interesting is what happened *before* the murder that doesn't make sense. BlueBoy's post doesn't make sense. The link doesn't make sense. BlueBoy worked for the Congresswoman. If the account wasn't hacked, someone from the Congresswoman's office did it.

Have you never used youtube before?

1. A video with the shooter's name inside was uploaded in October 2010.

I don't understand why you keep saying it's not him.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Have you never used youtube before?

1. A video with the shooter's name inside was uploaded in October 2010.

I don't understand why you keep saying it's not him.

I didn't say that. I said there was no proof. It could be him. It could be hundreds of other people that knew him. If you give me your name, I'll create a weird site for you too on youtube. We'll call it scary Ron Paul things, and I'll put your name in it!

However, he didn't put the link on the Congresswomen's webpage, and it could also just as easily been that person, since the office apparently knew him. The videos have no voice and no face. The shooter may have pulled the trigger, but he certainly didn't link the channel on the Congresswoman's webpage, and it casts doubt on the whole thing.

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Note in the screenshot the video in the recent activity says it was posted 1 day ago. If you go to her page now it says it was posted 3 days ago. That would mean the video was posted the Friday before the shooting. (which is when the interview for that video took place on foxnews) So since the screenshot shows the video was posted 1 day ago then the page shown in the screenshot had to be from Saturday which is the day the shooting occurred.

Which says nothing about when the subscriber joined. Yes, we all know the screenshot was taken after the shooting. Why would anyone take it before. What you really seem to be saying is the screenshot shows the screenshot was taken on saturday when the shooting occured. Good. Thats a better shot then getting it on Sunday.

[devil21]

Another random thought....

I was reading the shooter's posts over at ATS (and actually understanding much of what he was saying...scary....he's the ultimate big picture thinker...and it drove him nuts....not all that different than the Beautiful Mind character, actually) and he only posted a few things during July of 2010. It's known that ATS is monitored by various gov't agencies and their associates. It's not unthinkable that his obviously schizophrenic posts could have been picked up on by those who would like to use his mental issues for their own gain and recruited accordingly.

[jclay2]

Ok, I think I have come to as close as confirming the 2 days prior event as I possibly can.

At approximately 1 am in the morning on january 9th, a poster on AboveTopSecret named Jayhawker reported a strange sighting about the giffords2 youtube channel. The post is here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread648545/pg2. In this post, Jayhawker is one of the first people on the web to report the subscription connection between giffords and loughner. He also takes a screen shot, which shows that the last login was made two days prior to january 9th on the 7th. Now, it is important to remember that the detail in question is the "last login". Some have said that the image posted by pcosmar could have been photoshopped. Although I can not prove it, I disagree. The image posted on above top secret came out just 14 hours or so after the giffords shooting. Why is this significant? Because, at that point in time, the youtube subscription story was in its infancy or not even started at that point. When people photoshop stuff from news storiees, it is done to drum up attention to the phony detail of the photoshopped work and is almost always done after the original story has had some time to be absorbed into the general population. Rarely does the photoshopped work come out as the first source about the story. Remember, it is a fact that there was a giffords2-loughner youtube subscription. The only question is when. For me, that post on AboveTopSecret is the smoking gun. Now the only question is, why did giffords2 subscribed to loughner's account sometime between late december and january 7th BEFORE the murder.

[Bruno]

Bump. It is no longer subscribed to!

[ronpaulhawaii]

Ok, I think I have come to as close as confirming the 2 days prior event as I possibly can.

At approximately 1 am in the morning on january 9th, a poster on AboveTopSecret named Jayhawker reported a strange sighting about the giffords2 youtube channel. The post is here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread648545/pg2. In this post, Jayhawker is one of the first people on the web to report the subscription connection between giffords and loughner. He also takes a screen shot, which shows that the last login was made two days prior to january 9th on the 7th. Now, it is important to remember that the detail in question is the "last login". Some have said that the image posted by pcosmar could have been photoshopped. Although I can not prove it, I disagree. The image posted on above top secret came out just 14 hours or so after the giffords shooting. Why is this significant? Because, at that point in time, the youtube subscription story was in its infancy or not even started at that point. When people photoshop stuff from news storiees, it is done to drum up attention to the phony detail of the photoshopped work and is almost always done after the original story has had some time to be absorbed into the general population. Rarely does the photoshopped work come out as the first source about the story. Remember, it is a fact that there was a giffords2-loughner youtube subscription. The only question is when. For me, that post on AboveTopSecret is the smoking gun. Now the only question is, why did giffords2 subscribed to loughner's account sometime between late december and january 7th BEFORE the murder.

That post has an edit that states,
UPDATE: Now it says she accessed it an hour ago, but I got a screenshot. Uploading now

It has been proposed that people were getting screenshots while the account manager was still online. Those suggesting that say that YT does not update "last accessed" until the user logs out. Perhaps that was the session when the user subscribed to the killers ch.. I'm not sure if the "subscriptions" updates "live" or not

[Wren]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread649091/pg1

Scroll down to the view the threads Loughner made on that site

[Bruno]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread649091/pg1

Scroll down to the view the threads Loughner made on that site

Eerie comment made by member in thread 1...
I have maybe made a mistake is my assessment of your avatar, because for that to be the case, you'd have to be at least somewhat rational, but I think youre frankly schizophrenic, and no that's not an amateur opinion and not intended as an uninformed or insulting remark, you clearly make no sense and are unable to communicate. I really do care.
Seek help before you hurt yourself or others or start taking your medications again, please. Maybe, it'd be better for some there be an infinite source of haldol or cogentin then fiat currency.