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Agorism
01-09-2011, 12:23 AM
Raul Grijalva: Tea Party 'Threatening Our Form Of Government'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/grijalva-palin-needs-to-l_n_806283.html



Grijalva said that Tea Party leader Sarah Palin should reflect on the rhetoric that she has employed. "She -- as I mentioned, people contributing to this toxic climate -- Ms. Palin needs to look at her own behavior, and if she wants to help the public discourse, the best thing she could do is to keep quiet."

__27__
01-09-2011, 12:27 AM
I love the title of the Olbermann piece below it:

Keith Olbermann On Arizona Shooting: 'Violence Has No Place In Democracy'

Democracy is violence Kieth.

Brooklyn Red Leg
01-09-2011, 12:56 AM
This was my reply to one asshole who had the nerve to compare us to the fascists.

>If the TP are so much for the constituti*on, then why are so many of their beliefs shared with fascism?<

Funny, I didn't know us Ron Paul'ers (ya know, the ones that actually started the modern Tea Party movement) shared beliefs in common with Fascism. So, let's go point-by-point.

>1) Powerful and continuing expression*s of nationalis*m (example: our nation is the greatest in history).<

Wow, you mean like when Dr. Paul stated the reason we were attacked on 9/11 is because of our insidious foreign policy? You know, the foreign policy that President Obama is continuing?

>2) Disdain for human rights (example: demonizing the opposition*).<

Which is nothing like what you are doing, though? Amirite? I mean, its OBVIOUS that Tea Party people like me are Fascists. And please, point to where Dr. Paul has EVER shown disdain for the natural rights of others.

>3) Identifica*tion of scapegoats as the unifying cause (example: when things don't go right blame liberals to distract from our own failures).<

As opposed to the scapegoating by MIAC in 2009 or what is currently being engaged in here? Ya know, the Guilt-by-Association of 1 lone nut?

>4) Avid miltarism (example: the willingnes*s to use the military to solve internatio*nal disputes).<

Right. Please, again, reference Dr. Paul's stance on our overseas empire. Please also reference the thousands of innocent Pakistani and Afghani civilians that have been murdered by Predator drone strikes since President Obama took office.

>5) Rampant Sexism (example: feminism is bad).<

I see, so not following every single word Gloria Steinem spews as the gospel truth is sexism?

>6) Control the mass media (example: have the news distorted)<

Funny, I don't remember Dr. Paul being anything but smeared constantly by many in both parties.

>7) Obsession with national security (example: it is ok to lock people up without trial or to use torture to protect the nation).<

Right, and just a while back everyone here was screaming 'Koch-Brothers ASTROTURF' when a libertarian stood up to the jackbooted thugs in TSA. So which is it?

>8) Religion and the ruling elite tied together (example: increasing the role of religion in the nation and government*).<

And yet Dr. Paul has more than once invoked Sinclair Lewis who said "When fascism comes to America, it will be cloaked in a flag and carrying a cross."

>9) Power of corporatio*ns protected (example: deregulati*on or no new regulation*s on polllution*, labor laws).<

And yet Dr. Paul rails against Corporatism all the time and the incestuous relationship our government has to big business.

>10) Unions suppressed or eliminated (example: unions cost jobs and are the blame for increasing unemployme*nt).<

Please point to any example of this in the writings/speeches or votes by Dr. Paul. You won't find any, I guarantee. Dr. Paul has always stressed freedom of voluntary association.

>11) Disdain and even suppressio*n of intellectu*als (example: eggheads should shutup or else).<

And yet, Dr. Paul, himself a MEDICAL DOCTOR, is talked about as if he is a 'kook', 'fringe nut' etc whenever he talks about The Austrian School of Economics. His advice was also disdained with regards to Obamacare.

>12) Obsession with crime and punishment (example: capital punishment for more things).<

Remind me, again, how many non-violent drug offenders have been pardoned by President Obama? I seem to remember Dr. Paul, more than once, talking about the inherently racist nature of The War on Drugs.

>13) Rampant cronyism and corruption (example: giving out no bid contracts)*.<

Please point to Cronyism in Dr. Paul's case. Please point to where he has given out and/or endorsed no bid contracts.

>14) Fraudulent elections (example: preventing votes from being cast or counted).<

Please, point out what this has to do with Dr. Paul.

Your entire post is one ad hominem attack after another. You have made a guilt-by-association case to smear anyone who is a Tea Partier (eventhough there is an unbridgeable gap between the ACTUAL Tea Party started by Dr. Paul and the Tea-o-Cons that have hijacked OUR movement).

__27__
01-09-2011, 01:01 AM
I certainly don't associate myself with the TP, not anymore at least (long before this deal). I'd say that a very large number of the Repugs that transferred over to the TP are fascist, the whole Beck crowd. That's one of the prime reasons I don't associate myself with the TP.

Brooklyn Red Leg
01-09-2011, 01:08 AM
I certainly don't associate myself with the TP, not anymore at least (long before this deal). I'd say that a very large number of the Repugs that transferred over to the TP are fascist, the whole Beck crowd. That's one of the prime reasons I don't associate myself with the TP.

I don't either. But if we don't goddamn nip this shit in the bud now, people WILL associate Ron Paul with violent nuts like this assjackal that shot that Congresswoman.

__27__
01-09-2011, 01:20 AM
I don't either. But if we don't goddamn nip this shit in the bud now, people WILL associate Ron Paul with violent nuts like this assjackal that shot that Congresswoman.

But defending the TP only gets us further tied in with them. If the TP are fascist, which many are, let them be called out for it.

Swmorgan77
01-09-2011, 01:39 AM
Raul Grijalva: Tea Party 'Threatening Our Form Of Government'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/grijalva-palin-needs-to-l_n_806283.html

Yeah, it should be threatened. Their "form of government" is one based on immoral compulsion and implausible, unsustainable economics. It deserves to be not only threatened but eliminated and relegated to the dustbin of history.

Stary Hickory
01-09-2011, 03:09 AM
I certainly don't associate myself with the TP, not anymore at least (long before this deal). I'd say that a very large number of the Repugs that transferred over to the TP are fascist, the whole Beck crowd. That's one of the prime reasons I don't associate myself with the TP.

Love people calling millions and millions of people they don't know fascist. I like Beck most of the time, especially lately..I am prety sure I am not a fascist. Thanks for the smear though. Oh and Beck is not someone a fascist would be drawn to just fyi.

Pauls' Revere
01-09-2011, 03:33 AM
I don't either. But if we don't goddamn nip this shit in the bud now, people WILL associate Ron Paul with violent nuts like this assjackal that shot that Congresswoman.

It wont be just us. It will be everyone who does not push the Corporate/Government Oligarchy to help keep solvent the single party system.

I'm envisioning a Rodney King moment..."cant we all just get along?"

JohnEngland
01-09-2011, 06:13 AM
Doesn't this whole incident highlight well the irrationality of man? Stereotypes and false assumptions are being thrown about everywhere by the Left and entire groups of people (Tea Partiers) are being scapegoated for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

People today ask how someone like Hitler could have come to power. Surely the German people weren't bad. Well, as this recent shooting in Arizona points out, man is irrational. Even smart people are prone to foolish politics and scapegoating.

If ever there was an argument for the Rule of Law to curtail the dangers of pure democracy, this is it. The founders were indeed wise.

Heimdallr
01-09-2011, 07:11 AM
I don't either. But if we don't goddamn nip this shit in the bud now, people WILL associate Ron Paul with violent nuts like this assjackal that shot that Congresswoman.

People already do.

cindy25
01-09-2011, 08:40 AM
I agree with Raul, the Tea party is a threat to his socialist form of government

ItsTime
01-09-2011, 08:43 AM
I love the title of the Olbermann piece below it:

Keith Olbermann On Arizona Shooting: 'Violence Has No Place In Democracy'

Democracy is violence Kieth.

Well we are a Republic, really no place in a Republic for it either.

__27__
01-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Love people calling millions and millions of people they don't know fascist. I like Beck most of the time, especially lately..I am prety sure I am not a fascist. Thanks for the smear though. Oh and Beck is not someone a fascist would be drawn to just fyi.

:rolleyes:

I guess the self admitted fascist friend I have who can't go ten seconds without quoting Beck doesn't exist, right? If you believe in fascist ideals, you are a fascist. If you believe in nationalist and socialist ideals, you are a national socialist. The most disgusting thing about politics in America today is that no one wants to admit what they are, as though they are afraid of it. If you are a fascist, be proud of it. If you are a national socialist, be proud of it. If you can't be proud of what you are, do you really want to be what you are?

I am an anarchist, and I couldn't be more proud of that fact. I would never get upset that someone would call me what I am.

__27__
01-09-2011, 01:29 PM
Well we are a Republic, really no place in a Republic for it either.

A Republic is violence ItsTime.

heavenlyboy34
01-09-2011, 02:02 PM
A Republic is violence ItsTime.

qft!!!

pcosmar
01-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I don't either. But if we don't goddamn nip this shit in the bud now, people WILL associate Ron Paul with violent nuts like this assjackal that shot that Congresswoman.

Wait a minute.
When there were Open Carry folks at TP events the media screamed of violence. Yet there was none. No one was shot.
TP goers were attacked by Union thugs, smeared by the media, harassed by LE. Yet there was no violence by the TP.

Now a violent act by a Democrat/leftist (there have been several) and we have to worry about being called violent.
:confused:

It is truly a bizzaro world.

__27__
01-30-2011, 02:32 AM
I love the title of the Olbermann piece below it:

Keith Olbermann On Arizona Shooting: 'Violence Has No Place In Democracy'

Democracy is violence Kieth.

At least someone gets me:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R4ppEADvm4&feature=player_embedded

lynnf
01-30-2011, 08:50 AM
hey, numbskull congress critter: suck on this nugget for awhile -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eZU1BNtTI

Dr.3D
01-30-2011, 09:47 AM
A Republic is violence ItsTime.

Not as much as a democracy is.

__27__
01-30-2011, 11:45 AM
Not as much as a democracy is.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, clearly my client did in fact rape that young girl, but I urge you to consider that he raped her less than what the prosecution has asserted.

sailingaway
01-30-2011, 11:46 AM
LOL!!

"The best thing she could do to help our discourse is keep quiet...."

That is CLASSIC liberal 'tolerance' for other opinions......

xd9fan
01-30-2011, 11:55 AM
what form of Govt do we have again????

Dr.3D
01-30-2011, 12:19 PM
what form of Govt do we have again????

It's supposed to be a republic.
Of course there are those who oppose any kind of government, and those people live in a world of make believe.

pcosmar
01-30-2011, 12:33 PM
what form of Govt do we have again????

What we have?, or what we are supposed to have?

:(

__27__
01-30-2011, 01:50 PM
It's supposed to be a republic.
Of course there are those who oppose any kind of government, and those people live in a world of make believe.

:rolleyes:

Yes, clearly those who wish NOT to shove guns in their neighbors face are the ones who live in make believe.

Minarchists, thy cognitive dissonance knows no limits.

Dr.3D
01-30-2011, 02:41 PM
:rolleyes:

Yes, clearly those who wish NOT to shove guns in their neighbors face are the ones who live in make believe.

Minarchists, thy cognitive dissonance knows no limits.

Okay smart guy, show me where it this world your form of non government exists. If it doesn't exist, then it is make believe.

__27__
01-30-2011, 03:10 PM
Okay smart guy, show me where it this world your form of non government exists. If it doesn't exist, then it is make believe.

Okay smart guy, show me where in this world your "limited government" exists. If it doesn't exist, then it is make believe.

Are you really going to use that poor of an argument? If so then anything other than leviathan states waging war around the world and printing money at will is make believe. You better stop supporting Ron and his goal of ending central banking, clearly all of his goals are just make believe.

:rolleyes:

Dr.3D
01-30-2011, 03:13 PM
Okay smart guy, show me where in this world your "limited government" exists. If it doesn't exist, then it is make believe.

Are you really going to use that poor of an argument? If so then anything other than leviathan states waging war around the world and printing money at will is make believe. You better stop supporting Ron and his goal of ending central banking, clearly all of his goals are just make believe.

:rolleyes:

Well sir, limited government did exist for some time in the United States. It would be great if we could return to that limited government. As for the complete lack of government ever existing, perhaps it may have in the days of the cave man, but then again, there is no record of it and thus we can't be sure it ever existed.

__27__
01-30-2011, 03:25 PM
Well sir, limited government did exist for some time in the United States. It would be great if we could return to that limited government. As for the complete lack of government ever existing, perhaps it may have in the days of the cave man, but then again, there is no record of it and thus we can't be sure it ever existed.

Your level of ignorance on the subject coupled with the air of "I know it all" arrogance is disgusting. You don't even know the history but think you can lecture others on what did and didn't happen.

All of this is beside the point that the system you advocate still requires the initiation of violence on people to gain their obedience to your state. You may be okay with sticking guns in peoples faces to get them to act as you wish, I am not.

BTW, how did that limited US government turn out? Its still a tiny body that barely infringes on any of its citizens....right? Or is it in fact the largest state in history? If you'd like to do your own research on history rather than pulling things out of your ass you could begin by studying the history of states. You would find, just as any Austrian Economist could have told you, the smaller a state begins, the larger it ends. It has been empirically proven time and time again throughout history, but so much for learning from history, right? Your state will be different, right? You will somehow sprinkle magic pixie dust on it and it will defy every piece of logic and history, right?

You believe in make believe.

silverhandorder
01-30-2011, 03:34 PM
Okay smart guy, show me where in this world your "limited government" exists. If it doesn't exist, then it is make believe.

Are you really going to use that poor of an argument? If so then anything other than leviathan states waging war around the world and printing money at will is make believe. You better stop supporting Ron and his goal of ending central banking, clearly all of his goals are just make believe.

:rolleyes:

Excuse me but would you take that kind of argument from a slave owner for the first time asking abolitionists to show him where there ever was a society without slavery? I didn't think so.

__27__
01-30-2011, 03:36 PM
Excuse me but would you take that kind of argument from a slave owner for the first time asking abolitionists to show him where there ever was a society without slavery? I didn't think so.

Welcome to the conversation, sarcasm can be tough to spot if you jump in mid conversation. You should be speaking to 3D, it is his argument not mine.

pcosmar
01-30-2011, 03:39 PM
Your level of ignorance on the subject coupled with the air of "I know it all" arrogance is disgusting.

Not really.
Even when you look at "primitive" cultures (history) There was still government. Whether clan or tribal, there is still leaders and laws.Still judgement for crossing the line of what is acceptable.
There has never been a time known without such.

You believe in make believe.
to believe otherwise is make believe.

anaconda
01-30-2011, 03:48 PM
Damn right we're threatening "his form" of government..