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Anti Federalist
01-07-2011, 10:49 PM
According to a new study published by the National Home Education Research Institute, the number of children being homeschooled in the U.S. now tops 2 million.

"The growth of the modern homeschool movement has been remarkable," said Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association. "Just 30 years ago there were only an estimated 20,000 homeschooled children."

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were an estimated 54 million K-12 children in the U.S. in spring 2010 which means homeschoolers account for nearly 4% of the school-aged population, or 1 in 25 children.

The NHERI study used data from both government and private sources in order to arrive at the two million figure.

http://www.nheri.org/HomeschoolPopulationReport2010.html

http://www.nheri.org/HomeschoolPopulationReport2010.pdf

noxagol
01-07-2011, 11:03 PM
Only thing I have wrong with that is that it is not higher!

Chester Copperpot
01-07-2011, 11:05 PM
thank goodness.... 2 million smarter people on the horizon

Southron
01-08-2011, 12:27 AM
A lot of progress has been made in regards to homeschooling laws.

When I first started school, homeschooling wasn't legal in NC.

Anti Federalist
01-08-2011, 12:36 AM
A lot of progress has been made in regards to homeschooling laws.

When I first started school, homeschooling wasn't legal in NC.

As bleak as I can be about things, it's progress like this on the homeschool front, or on the Second Amendment (if you had told me in 1985 that 43 states in the country would have been "shall issue" or no permit required CCW by 2010, I'd have told you that you were nuts) that gives me hope that maybe this can be turned around after all.

TheTyke
01-08-2011, 12:39 AM
This is awesome news! A full half of the people I ran into campaigning for Ron in KY were homeschooled - if not more. We may each have our own beliefs, but the State isn't deciding which ones they are...

Vessol
01-08-2011, 01:02 AM
Best news I've heard all day.

tangent4ronpaul
01-08-2011, 01:38 AM
It is very good news, yet I find the numbers a bit hard to believe.

-t

Fox McCloud
01-08-2011, 02:06 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Homeschool_academic_scores.jpg

it's rather interesting that home-schoolers are even outpacing private educators.

It will definitely be interesting once home-schoolers start taking on more and more professor and research related positions---I think you'd likely see a dramatic shift in a number of fields...though...I could be wrong.

Philhelm
01-08-2011, 02:47 AM
Soon to be over two million children snatched by CPS... :(

Philhelm
01-08-2011, 02:50 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Homeschool_academic_scores.jpg

it's rather interesting that home-schoolers are even outpacing private educators.

It will definitely be interesting once home-schoolers start taking on more and more professor and research related positions---I think you'd likely see a dramatic shift in a number of fields...though...I could be wrong.

Why would this graph be cut to not show the 12th grade accomplishments of all sources of education? I wonder if the home shoolers keep going along the line that is cut off. If so, it would be a remarkable difference.

tangent4ronpaul
01-08-2011, 03:12 AM
Why would this graph be cut to not show the 12th grade accomplishments of all sources of education? I wonder if the home shoolers keep going along the line that is cut off. If so, it would be a remarkable difference.

Following the trajectories, Home Schoolers probably graduate HS with the equivelent of 2 years of college under their belt. Many do focus on advanced placement work the last 2 years to earn college credit.

The Public Fool system students, OTOH, graduate with a 10th grade education and will tend to have to take a couple of years of Community College to be ready for real college level work. Unfortunately, they only have to complete 4 years to get a BS, which will qualify them for Federal Government employment. This actually explains a lot.

-t

Philhelm
01-08-2011, 03:48 AM
Following the trajectories, Home Schoolers probably graduate HS with the equivelent of 2 years of college under their belt. Many do focus on advanced placement work the last 2 years to earn college credit.

The Public Fool system students, OTOH, graduate with a 10th grade education and will tend to have to take a couple of years of Community College to be ready for real college level work. Unfortunately, they only have to complete 4 years to get a BS, which will qualify them for Federal Government employment. This actually explains a lot.

-t

I just wonder what the unbroken trajectory would show. Perhaps the accomplishments of the home schooled children would be higher or lower than expected (my guess would be higher). I wonder why whoever had designed this graph would cut off the data of one of the groups. It seems like a poorly designed graph.

Humanae Libertas
01-08-2011, 05:38 AM
Just wait until some typical partisan statist hack goes up and tells the country that 2 millions kids are not getting the proper education, and calls for banning homeschooling. Just wait, its gonna happen.

reillym
01-08-2011, 06:06 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Homeschool_academic_scores.jpg

it's rather interesting that home-schoolers are even outpacing private educators.

It will definitely be interesting once home-schoolers start taking on more and more professor and research related positions---I think you'd likely see a dramatic shift in a number of fields...though...I could be wrong.

Graph is misleading.

I'd say that homeschoolers are often more well-off than the average family, would you not agree? And the parents usually are highly-educated. Thus, their children, statistics show, regardless of TYPE of education, are always better off.

Homeschooling isn't a guarantee of success, or better results. It can be, but don't confuse causation with correlation.

lynnf
01-08-2011, 06:12 AM
kudos to those that make the sacrifice to home school. their offspring will be an asset to the country. don't give your kids to the state if you can avoid it!

lynn

tangent4ronpaul
01-08-2011, 07:23 AM
Just wait until some typical partisan statist hack goes up and tells the country that 2 millions kids are not getting the proper education, and calls for banning homeschooling. Just wait, its gonna happen.

Already happening, but not by registration - rather by curriculum control and testing.

-t

roho76
01-08-2011, 08:35 AM
I just wonder what the unbroken trajectory would show. Perhaps the accomplishments of the home schooled children would be higher or lower than expected (my guess would be higher). I wonder why whoever had designed this graph would cut off the data of one of the groups. It seems like a poorly designed graph.

Chances are they don't need 11th and 12th grades. According to the graph 8th grade homeshoers are smarter then most high school graduates.

TheTyke
01-08-2011, 09:20 AM
Graph is misleading.

I'd say that homeschoolers are often more well-off than the average family, would you not agree? And the parents usually are highly-educated. Thus, their children, statistics show, regardless of TYPE of education, are always better off.

Homeschooling isn't a guarantee of success, or better results. It can be, but don't confuse causation with correlation.

I can't say what the average homeschooler is like, but my case differed from your scenario. We spent less than $400 a year (old/used books,) and my education came primarily from a high-school graduate. Our philosophy was that we'd be better off at home playing cards than going to government schools. Despite that, we consistently tested far beyond public school averages.

Homeschooling is just that awesome. Local control, a high teacher to student ratio, and the parents CARE more than teachers would. It also makes it difficult for me to stomach the education lobby demanding that money will fix things... I heard in DC the taxpayers annually spent $36,000 per student (with abysmal results)... ninety times what my education cost. How's that for government efficiency?

pcosmar
01-08-2011, 10:05 AM
Graph is misleading.

I'd say that homeschoolers are often more well-off than the average family, would you not agree? And the parents usually are highly-educated. Thus, their children, statistics show, regardless of TYPE of education, are always better off.

Homeschooling isn't a guarantee of success, or better results. It can be, but don't confuse causation with correlation.

:confused:

can't say I know about all 2 million,but,,
Of those folks I do know that home school.
They are not "well off' or "highly (formally) educated". In fact some are continuing their education while educating their children.
2 that come to mind are the Pastor of a small country church. And my Guild master on Wow.
The kids are well mannered and bright And the parents are what would be considered poverty level.
But that is just some that I know.
;)

t0rnado
01-08-2011, 10:15 AM
This is awesome news! A full half of the people I ran into campaigning for Ron in KY were homeschooled - if not more. We may each have our own beliefs, but the State isn't deciding which ones they are...

I noticed this among Ron Paul supporters as well when I was canvassing and going to rallies in 07/08. Parents who homeschool their children generally don't want government interference in their private lives, so it makes sense that their children also have some of those values.

Fox McCloud
01-08-2011, 10:19 AM
Graph is misleading.

I'd say that homeschoolers are often more well-off than the average family, would you not agree? And the parents usually are highly-educated. Thus, their children, statistics show, regardless of TYPE of education, are always better off.

I don't think so. I think that argument would much better fall into the Catholic/private school argument, but it most definitely doesn't apply to homeschoolers. They're a unique breed, ranging from poor to wealthy, uneducated to highly educated. Given that demographic and the higher test scores, I don't think you can chalk it up to your thesis.

As for your last statement, of course its not, no one, here, is claiming that--we're merely claiming that, generally speaking, your average homeschooler is more statistically likely to do better than your average public school student. Heck, even if they weren't, it could still be worth it to avoid indoctrination of blind support to the State.

Homeschooling isn't a guarantee of success, or better results. It can be, but don't confuse causation with correlation.[/QUOTE]

Kludge
01-08-2011, 10:21 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Homeschool_academic_scores.jpg

it's rather interesting that home-schoolers are even outpacing private educators.

It will definitely be interesting once home-schoolers start taking on more and more professor and research related positions---I think you'd likely see a dramatic shift in a number of fields...though...I could be wrong.

I'm not entirely sure what the context of that chart is, but it can be multitudes easier to cheat on tests when homeschooling -- at least, that's what I've been told by a kid who used to be homeschooled I went to school with (who wasn't particularly dumb), and both of my cousins who were homeschooled. It was a ***** family scandal when everyone found out, due to their own admission, they had cheated on almost every test. One is now in a very good (sincerely) factory position making hot-air balloons while the other is a CSR. They're both payed reasonably well, and the one making balloons, all things considered, has an excellent job.

Education is totally reliant on the educators (always including parents, even if the kid goes to school). There are good and bad educators at home and at schools, public and private. Homeschoolers statistically tend to be slightly wealthier and Whiter, but the differences are in the single-digit percent changes, so I'm not sure it has that much of an impact. However, while bringing this up, the chart shows a percent change between homeschoolers and public schools in test scores of about 8%, which is low enough to possibly be in the MoE range.

The USDE released a study which was reported to show homeschooling parents are significantly wealthier, very White, and better educated. It's torn apart pretty well here: http://www.nheri.org/Latest/Homeschooling-More-Ethnic-Minorities-Lower-Income-Families-and-Parents-Moderately-High-Education.html

t0rnado
01-08-2011, 10:34 AM
I'm not entirely sure what the context of that chart is, but it can be multitudes easier to cheat on tests when homeschooling -- at least, that's what I've been told by a kid who used to be homeschooled I went to school with (who wasn't particularly dumb), and both of my cousins who were homeschooled. It was a ***** family scandal when everyone found out, due to their own admission, they had cheated on almost every test. One is now in a very good (sincerely) factory position making hot-air balloons while the other is a CSR. They're both payed reasonably well, and the one making balloons, all things considered, has an excellent job.

Education is totally reliant on the educators (always including parents, even if the kid goes to school). There are good and bad educators at home and at schools, public and private. Homeschoolers statistically tend to be slightly wealthier and Whiter, but the differences are in the single-digit percent changes, so I'm not sure it has that much of an impact.

The USDE released a study which was reported to show homeschooling parents are significantly wealthier, very White, and better educated. It's torn apart pretty well here: http://www.nheri.org/Latest/Homeschooling-More-Ethnic-Minorities-Lower-Income-Families-and-Parents-Moderately-High-Education.html

Your implication that the graph wasn't accurate because homeschoolers told you that they cheated doesn't apply to the SAT, since the CollegeBoard doesn't allow for it to be taken outside of testing centers.

In 2000, homeschooled students averaged an 1100 on the SAT. That is 81 points higher than the general student population, which averaged a 1019 in the same year (http://eric.uoregon.edu/trends_issues/choice/home_schooling.html).

I am aware that retarded children receive extra time on the SAT, but I don't know whether retardation is higher among homeschooled children than among public school students. If it is, then that would be an argument against the SAT as an indicator of educational attainment of homeschooled students vs public school students.

Kludge
01-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Your implication that the graph wasn't accurate because homeschoolers told you that they cheated doesn't apply to the SAT, since the CollegeBoard doesn't allow for it to be taken outside of testing centers.

In 2000, homeschooled students averaged an 1100 on the SAT. That is 81 points higher than the general student population, which averaged a 1019 in the same year (http://eric.uoregon.edu/trends_issues/choice/home_schooling.html).

I am aware that retarded children receive extra time on the SAT, but I don't know whether retardation is higher among homeschooled children than among public school students. If it is, then that would be an argument against the SAT as an indicator of educational attainment of homeschooled students vs public school students.

Good point, though many people who don't intend to go to college don't take the SATs. I'm not sure how that variable would affect the overall score results, but I'd guess homeschoolers would probably still have a significant advantage.

Edit: Thinking about it more, though, don't many public high schools in the West require all HS students take the SATs?

Edit2: Study shows higher average scores in ACT testing, as well - "self-identified home-schoolers have bettered the national averages on the ACT for the past three years running, scoring an average 22.7 last year, compared with 21 for their more traditional peers, on a scale of one to 36. Home-schoolers scored 23.4 in English, well above the 20.5 national average; and 24.4 in reading, compared with a mean of 21.4. The gap was closer in science (21.9 vs. 21.0), and home-schoolers scored below the national average in math, 20.4 to 20.7." (Daniel Golden, The Wall Street Journal, Feb 11, 2000, pg. 1)"

t0rnado
01-08-2011, 10:55 AM
Good point, though many people who don't intend to go to college don't take the SATs. I'm not sure how that variable would affect the overall score results, but I'd guess homeschoolers would probably still have a significant advantage.

Edit: Thinking about it more, though, don't many public high schools in the West require all HS students take the SATs?

You are correct in that many public schools require students to take the SAT in order to graduate, so that does dilute the average, but those kids are still public school students regardless of their post-high school plans.

Anti Federalist
01-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Wow, very surprising that there are traces of cynicism and doubt amongst people here over this subject.

It would seem to me that if there was one, universal, whole, complete truth that freedom folks could rally around, that would be the disdain for mandatory public education.

As one person pointed out, the kids would better off sitting around playing cards than going to the state indoctrination center every day.

Is it the fact that homeschoolers are, mostly, devoutly religious people that is causing some of this "uncomfort"?

Son of Detroit
01-08-2011, 12:34 PM
I fully support the idea of homeschooling, and if a family feels that it is the best option for their child, then good for them. However it doesn't work for all families and the learning styles of all children. I don't think I would have thrived in a homeschooling environment. It just wouldn't have worked out for me and my family.

I kind of shake my head on here when I see comments such as "don't let the state have your children!", "escape the brainwashing!". There is no problem with public schooling if the parents have an active part in their child's education. Go over what your child is learning, help them with homework, do some complemental lessons on the side if you want.

I have attended public school since kindergarten, and I feel I turned out just fine. Starting this fall I'm going to be attending one of the top universities in the world, and will doing my part to further the liberty movement with other students on campus. I was never indoctrinated, I got a proper education, and I thrived in the environment. My parents did not have the time nor resources to homeschool me, but took whatever time they could to make sure I was doing okay and offered help whenever I needed it.

All families should analyze their own situation and children and determine what is best, whether it be homeschooling, private school, or public school.

Kludge
01-08-2011, 12:41 PM
Wow, very surprising that there are traces of cynicism and doubt amongst people here over this subject.

It would seem to me that if there was one, universal, whole, complete truth that freedom folks could rally around, that would be the disdain for mandatory public education.

As one person pointed out, the kids would better off sitting around playing cards than going to the state indoctrination center every day.

Is it the fact that homeschoolers are, mostly, devoutly religious people that is causing some of this "uncomfort"?

That's part of it. In public and even private school education, kids are subjected to many different opinions they may or may not agree with. With homeschooling, you'll likely get one parent's opinion all the time. How is a kid supposed to learn to think critically and objectively if he's so narrow-minded? It's not that I don't hate public education, it's that I disagree homeschooling, in typical circumstances, is significantly better and deserving of keeping a parent from work.

Anti Federalist
01-08-2011, 12:52 PM
That's part of it. In public and even private school education, kids are subjected to many different opinions they may or may not agree with. With homeschooling, you'll likely get one parent's opinion all the time. How is a kid supposed to learn to think critically and objectively if he's so narrow-minded? It's not that I don't hate public education, it's that I disagree homeschooling, in typical circumstances, is significantly better and deserving of keeping a parent from work.

Two of my adult stepchildren we homeschooled.

My two children now are homeschooled.

Where do you get the idea that the only opinion that they are exposed to is either mine, or their mother's?

They interact with more adults, in different circumstances, than most children their age, who, instead of being exposed to differing opinions in that manner, are spoon fed a diet of state subservience.

But yeah, you're right, shame on me from keeping my wife from contributing to the state through taxes on her lost income and a reduced cash flow to consume more shit from WalMarx.

Sola_Fide
01-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Great News!

Listen to Ron's opinion of homeschooling!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQP5KVM5tB8

Kludge
01-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Two of my adult stepchildren we homeschooled.

My two children now are homeschooled.

Where do you get the idea that the only opinion that they are exposed to is either mine, or their mother's?

They interact with more adults, in different circumstances, than most children their age, who, instead of being exposed to differing opinions in that manner, are spoon fed a diet of state subservience.

But yeah, you're right, shame on me from keeping my wife from contributing to the state through taxes on her lost income and a reduced cash flow to consume more shit from WalMarx.

Alright. First, I don't think homeschooling is necessarily wrong. Many libertarians claim public schools indoctrinate, but it couldn't be further from the truth. The idea that they're exposed to only a handful of opinions comes from there usually only being 1-2 educators in total while homeschooling (unless they use the increasingly-popular virtual classrooms, in which case my point is moot). In an actual school, the kid will go through upwards of 100 teachers and likely over 500 other students. Constantly, they have different ideas going around. There are classroom discussions where many ideas the teacher never even thought of are brought up. The kids will be exposed to different cultures and many different ideologies. By the time they graduate high school, they'll likely know a Communist, a Fascist, a few handfuls of Nationalists, and some bleeding-heart liberals, and maybe even some libertarians, too -- and they'll accept them and better know how to interact with people coming from different backgrounds because of it.

Public schools do not indoctrinate kids to worship the state. I can say this from experience. It was in a public school I was exposed to John Stossel and Ayn Rand. If I were raised by my parents, I never would have known who those people are. I wouldn't be a libertarian - I wouldn't be here - if it weren't for the public school system.

puppetmaster
01-08-2011, 01:40 PM
+1

Sola_Fide
01-08-2011, 01:44 PM
Public schools do not indoctrinate kids to worship the state. I can say this from experience. It was in a public school I was exposed to John Stossel and Ayn Rand. If I were raised by my parents, I never would have known who those people are. I wouldn't be a libertarian - I wouldn't be here - if it weren't for the public school system.

Whhhaaaaaaaaaattttttt?


Bro, public schools certainly are statist indocrination centers. They even seemed to have convinced you that they are somehow neutral! Nothing is nuetral, especially education.

I read this book and it convinced me how insidious public education really is:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61KVJerBngL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

erowe1
01-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Already happening, but not by registration - rather by curriculum control and testing.

-t

Yep. But they're not satisfied with the level of control they already have over homeschoolers. The next step toward gaining that control is school choice vouchers, which will, of course, only be usable for state approved schooling.

osan
01-08-2011, 02:18 PM
According to a new study published by the National Home Education Research Institute, the number of children being homeschooled in the U.S. now tops 2 million.... homeschoolers account for nearly 4% of the school-aged population, or 1 in 25 children.

A small ray of sunshine in what is otherwise a dull, gray, and dreary looking future.


What I see coming down the pike will be government controls, probably in the form of required curricula, standardized testing requirements, and if those do not corral the parents sufficiently, bans on non-accredited curricula and prison time/kidnapping of children for those not in compliance.

As homeschooling grows, keep your eyes open for these little gems to start making headlines, then implementation, and finally criminal trials.

Southron
01-08-2011, 02:33 PM
I found that in government schools I was exposed to more group-think than in my conservative, fundamentalist Christian home.

School socialization is over rated as well. In the real world you have to associate with people of all ages, not just frightened, impressionable children and teenagers.