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View Full Version : How/When Did You Become a libertarian? What were you previously?




AGRP
01-07-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm a former Neocon.

I began my Libertarianism when I learned about the Iraq no-bid contracts. Then Ron Pauls teachings pushed me further and further until I was a full-blown Libertarian; probably around 2008.

Zap!
01-07-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm not a Libertarian. I'm a paleo-con.

Chester Copperpot
01-07-2011, 08:46 PM
I think ive always been a libertarian.


But I just learned about Ron Paul circa 2004 or so

specialkornflake
01-07-2011, 08:48 PM
Strictly speaking, to be a libertarian is to believe in liberty. To what degree, that differs for many of us.

torchbearer
01-07-2011, 08:48 PM
I was a register libertarian at 18. was introduced to the ideas by a teacher in high school.
i made my way up the ranks of the LALP.
always been a person who understand the natural law. even before i knew what the ideas were called.

Austrian Econ Disciple
01-07-2011, 08:50 PM
Strictly speaking, to be a libertarian is to believe in liberty. To what degree, that differs for many of us.

I would say to be a libertarian that you must put liberty as the only purpose/highest end to politics (Politics encompasses political economy, philosophy, ideology, etc.). Paleo-Cons do not fit this bill because they do not use this criteria in all of their political decisions.

Sola_Fide
01-07-2011, 08:51 PM
I believe in Toadyism.

Its basically a Libertarian that actually wins something.

TroySmith
01-07-2011, 08:57 PM
I leaned democrat until I discovered Ayn Rand mainly due to a belief in civil liberties, but lack of understanding of economics and proper individualism. Later came Ron Paul, Hayek, etc.

Zap!
01-07-2011, 08:58 PM
I would say to be a libertarian that you must put liberty as the only purpose/highest end to politics (Politics encompasses political economy, philosophy, ideology, etc.). Paleo-Cons do not fit this bill because they do not use this criteria in all of their political decisions.

They're close. Nearly all supporters of the premiere paleo-con of all-time, Pat Buchanan, went to the premiere libertarian of all-time, Ron Paul. They're very close (against wars, the Patriot Act, foreign aid, the UN, etc.). The main difference is Pat takes a far more vocal view on social issues, such as abortion, gay rights, and porn.

heavenlyboy34
01-07-2011, 09:04 PM
I was essentially a libertarian since 19 or so, but didn't know what to call it until 2005-ish. I began small, with reading encyclopedia articles and such about it. Got more and more libertarian from there. Before that I was a republican, but only casually interested in politics.

People interested in paleo-conservativism would probably be interested The Betrayal of The American Right by Rothbard, btw.

sevin
01-07-2011, 09:05 PM
I was definitely a neo-con. I voted for Bush in 2000, I was for the invasion of Iraq, I had no problem with torture, I watched Fox News, I read Bill O'Reilly's books, you get the idea.

Then around 2005 I read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I was so moved by John Galt's speech that I sought out her non-fiction books such as Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. I don't agree with Ayn Rand on everything and strongly disagree with her on a couple of issues, but her books started a chain reaction in my mind. Eventually my research led me to the libertarian philosophy.

SovereignMN
01-07-2011, 09:11 PM
They're close. Nearly all supporters of the premiere paleo-con of all-time, Pat Buchanan, went to the premiere libertarian of all-time, Ron Paul. They're very close (against wars, the Patriot Act, foreign aid, the UN, etc.). The main difference is Pat takes a far more vocal view on social issues, such as abortion, gay rights, and porn.

Pretty accurate. I find that the big difference between libertarians and paleo-cons is that paleo's are generally more accepting of some regulations at the local level for such things as prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. All in all we are on the same side, especially when it comes to our views on the federal government. FWIW, I am not a libertarian and neither is Ron Paul. I was a Buchanan supporter in 1996 who reluctantly voted for Bob Dole. I felt so dirty about it that I vowed not to settle again. I've been mostly with the Constitution Party since although I don't agree with all their positions.

Brett85
01-07-2011, 09:35 PM
I converted from being somewhat of a neocon to more of a paleo conservative. I used to be a huge supporter of the Iraq War. I would even go on liberal blogs and debate that issue with liberals. I changed my mind on the Iraq war when I finally realized that it was never going to end and that it was costing us a fortune. I finally realized that it was better to simply have a strong national defense here at home and worry about ourselves rather than policing the world. I came across Ron Paul and ended up voting for him in the 2008 primaries.

CaliforniaMom
01-07-2011, 09:43 PM
I became a libertarian when I was 17. There was a textbook in high school government class that had a chapter on political parties. Although it had many pages on Democrats and Republicans, what caught my attention was the short paragraph about libertarians. I had never heard of libertartianism before that. I found out everything I could about it, and I registered as a libertarian at age 18 when I registered to vote. Before my discovery of the libertarian party I didn't really belong to any political party, as I was a young teenager. My family and extended family, however, are mostly republicans.

Although I fit well with the libertarian party on most beliefs, there are other beliefs where I differ, such as my pro-life stance. When I discovered Ron Paul for the first time (during his 2008 Presidential run) it was like a miracle for me, to finally find a politician that represents my beliefs so well.

Knightskye
01-07-2011, 09:45 PM
I was a soft-core Democrat until 2007. I supported raising the minimum wage, government "investment" in green energy, and withdrawing the troops from Iraq. Then in mid-2007, I came across Aravoth's videos and that started my conversion. Those blew my mind.

Fredom101
01-07-2011, 10:00 PM
Grew up a republican, got more conservative in college, in 96 Bob Dole made me sick so I voted for Harry Browne, then read about the LP platform and switched parties...voted for Harry Browne again in 2000, then 9/11 made me go backwards to Repub again, then 9/11 truth made me go back to libertarian, in 08 I voted for Ron Paul and then proceeded to accept the arguments for anarcho-capitalism and voluntaryism, now I will never vote again. :)

Fredom101
01-07-2011, 10:06 PM
I became a libertarian when I was 17. There was a textbook in high school government class that had a chapter on political parties. Although it had many pages on Democrats and Republicans, what caught my attention was the short paragraph about libertarians. I had never heard of libertartianism before that. I found out everything I could about it, and I registered as a libertarian at age 18 when I registered to vote. Before my discovery of the libertarian party I didn't really belong to any political party, as I was a young teenager. My family and extended family, however, are mostly republicans.

Although I fit well with the libertarian party on most beliefs, there are other beliefs where I differ, such as my pro-life stance. When I discovered Ron Paul for the first time (during his 2008 Presidential run) it was like a miracle for me, to finally find a politician that represents my beliefs so well.

Interesting. When I was campaigning for Ron Paul, it was glaringly obvious that it was a male-dominant group coming to the meetings and rallies. I talked to many women on the streets and so many of them liked the positions but as soon as they found out he was "pro-life", they would be turned off. I hate that issue because it is insanely divisive, yet it affects hardly anyone compared to the wars, drug wars, Fed, etc. I disagree with RP on this issue but I don't see it as anything major. To me it's tripping over dimes to get to nickels, or however that expression goes.

AlexMerced
01-07-2011, 10:08 PM
When I was kid I use to watch stossel on 20/20 and be very consufed on which side he was on, but I always agreed with him

In 9th grade we read anthem for my english class and that really got me into the idea of the individual

Was a flaming liberal up until my the summer after my junior year of college where I made a trip to the phillipines in which the only english news channel was fox news where I saw the republican debate with famous exchange between paul/giuliani

After some reading, learning, and a piss test I discovered I was libertarian.

heavenlyboy34
01-07-2011, 10:11 PM
Grew up a republican, got more conservative in college, in 96 Bob Dole made me sick so I voted for Harry Browne, then read about the LP platform and switched parties...voted for Harry Browne again in 2000, then 9/11 made me go backwards to Repub again, then 9/11 truth made me go back to libertarian, in 08 I voted for Ron Paul and then proceeded to accept the arguments for anarcho-capitalism and voluntaryism, now I will never vote again. :)
Nice! :cool:

Wesker1982
01-07-2011, 10:14 PM
13 years old to 17- anarcho-punk rocker

17 years old to 20- 60% politically apathetic, 40% neo-con

20 years old I discover Ron Paul during his 2008 campaign, convert to libertarian

somewhere between 2-4 months after that I turned anarcho-capitalist

TY Ron Paul.

bwlibertyman
01-07-2011, 10:28 PM
All through out high school I was a neocon. I watched Bill O'Reilly every night and I bought his books. I was mainly concerned about war and our international image. I wanted to be part of a party that wasn't afraid to punch you in the mouth as opposed to those pussy democrats. I was pretty socially conservative. I thought that since I didn't do drugs that no one should. I voted for McCain in 2008. Literally a week after the campaign a close friend gave me a copy of Ron Paul A Manifesto. I was hooked. He laid out his case so clearly. I stumbled upon the libertarian ideology throughout different texts. It struck me that the free market was so easy to defend. The free market didn't force anyone to do anything they didn't want to. I came around on civil liberties and decided that we should all be treated the same. I'm somewhere between a minarchist and a anarcho capitalist. Most "average" people don't like those words so I usually say that I'm for limited government with the idea that I would always shrink the size of government. The obvious conclusion is that this leads to an anarch capitalist society. So I went neocon to libertarian.

Sentient Void
01-07-2011, 11:23 PM
Initially, for the longest time, I really liked the low-tax, free-market positions (or alleged positions) of the republicans, but disliked their social conservatism. I liked the democrats' alleged view of high civil liberties, but hated their big government policies and high taxation. I knew nothing of libertarianism, but have to say I thought (based purely on ignorance) that for whatever reason, you couldn't have the best of both worlds. It was one or the other... for some reason I thought civil and fiscal liberties were mutually exclusive. It probably didn't help that i grew up in MA and everyone in school (including the teachers ) indirectly or directly made you feel 'bad' or 'guilty' about being for free markets or republican... basically - anything other than democrat.

While feeling politically lost, and generally apathetic because of my confusion around politics, 9/11 happened (I was a junior in high school) - and I got caught up in the whole neocon agenda and rhetoric. It definitely had a big part in turning me into a raging jingoist neo-con imperialist bastard (and a book i read called 'The Lucifer Principle'). I wanted the US to conquer the world and impose our vision on everyone, here and abroad - and that we were the shining light of the world, and we should drag everyone (foreign and domestic) kicking and screaming to our vision and in the end it would be for the best. We needed to slay all of the dragons of the world to make the world a better place, and to ensure our own prosperity, regardless of the negative consequences on others. Also, that someone was gonna be on top - that it might as well be us. Underneath it all, though - I was completely lost, and I knew it.

When I was introduced to Ron Paul by a stripper friend of mine (lol) and watched him in the debates, etc I was intrigued. He just made sense. And you could tell he was telling the truth, and he was very passionate about what he was saying, and that he knew his shit. Then i found out he was a 'libertarian' - whatever *that* was. As I did more research, I realized that this was really what I was looking for, and my whole neocon worldview was completely and utterly wrong. I became a soft-constitutionalist (still, through economic ignorance, believe in anti-trust laws, minimum wage, regulations, etc, I was still just learning what the constitution was all about). Through classic dialectic fashion with many others online in forums (starting with myspace US political forums), and with their infinite patience with me, even though i fought tooth and nail with them on tons of issues (they were very respectful of me despite my douchebaggery and arbitrary dismissiveness), over time I realized they were right and started adopting their positions because they were logically sound and ultimately backed by economic and moral reasoning. I then became a minarchist (night-watchman state), because I still had a stockholm syndrome to the State.

Eventually, through more discussions, mostly here on this forum, and some reading of Rothbard, Ruwart, Hazlitt, Bastiat, et al - I finally let go of my stockholm syndrome to the State and accepted the consistent logic, morality and economics of anarcho-capitalism.

I'm still learning to this day, mostly ways to further buttress my arguments, logic, economics, etc.

Moral/lesson of the story? No matter what your opposition says - liberal/democrat/socialist/neocon/republican/etc - maintain sound logic, and stay respectful. Even if they are being disrespectful and/or illogical. You may not realize it - but your logic is digging at them even after you're done debating them, and seeds of dissent AND liberty *are* being planted. And they *will* flower. Not only that, but remember to stay logical and respectful for the sake of the audience you are debating in front of.

silverhandorder
01-07-2011, 11:53 PM
Through out my high school career I was influenced by both democrats and republicans but the teachers refrained from out right talking about their politics. I started to lean right due to a brilliant AP US history teacher. He was young and came from the south and always would present the other side during lectures.

Anyways eventually I got into a gaming forum that was dominated by libertarians and while observing their political discussions found out about Ron Paul. That is when all pieces fell into place and his platform was just perfect.

I went to NH to canvass for him later in the summer after my graduation. I also got my AP US teacher off Fred Thompson band wagon and got him into RP.

ClayTrainor
01-08-2011, 12:05 AM
Initially, for the longest time, I really liked the low-tax, free-market positions (or alleged positions) of the republicans, but disliked their social conservatism. I liked the democrats' alleged view of high civil liberties, but hated their big government policies and high taxation. I knew nothing of libertarianism, but have to say I thought (based purely on ignorance) that for whatever reason, you couldn't have the best of both worlds. It was one or the other... for some reason I thought civil and fiscal liberties were mutually exclusive. It probably didn't help that i grew up in MA and everyone in school (including the teachers ) indirectly or directly made you feel 'bad' or 'guilty' about being for free markets or republican... basically - anything other than democrat.

While feeling politically lost, and generally apathetic because of my confusion around politics, 9/11 happened (I was a junior in high school) - and I got caught up in the whole neocon agenda and rhetoric. It definitely had a big part in turning me into a raging jingoist neo-con imperialist bastard (and a book i read called 'The Lucifer Principle'). I wanted the US to conquer the world and impose our vision on everyone, here and abroad - and that we were the shining light of the world, and we should drag everyone (foreign and domestic) kicking and screaming to our vision and in the end it would be for the best. We needed to slay all of the dragons of the world to make the world a better place, and to ensure our own prosperity, regardless of the negative consequences on others. Also, that someone was gonna be on top - that it might as well be us. Underneath it all, though - I was completely lost, and I knew it.

When I was introduced to Ron Paul by a stripper friend of mine (lol) and watched him in the debates, etc I was intrigued. He just made sense. And you could tell he was telling the truth, and he was very passionate about what he was saying, and that he knew his shit. Then i found out he was a 'libertarian' - whatever *that* was. As I did more research, I realized that this was really what I was looking for, and my whole neocon worldview was completely and utterly wrong. I became a soft-constitutionalist (still, through economic ignorance, believe in anti-trust laws, minimum wage, regulations, etc, I was still just learning what the constitution was all about). Through classic dialectic fashion with many others online in forums (starting with myspace US political forums), and with their infinite patience with me, even though i fought tooth and nail with them on tons of issues (they were very respectful of me despite my douchebaggery and arbitrary dismissiveness), over time I realized they were right and started adopting their positions because they were logically sound and ultimately backed by economic and moral reasoning. I then became a minarchist (night-watchman state), because I still had a stockholm syndrome to the State.

Eventually, through more discussions, mostly here on this forum, and some reading of Rothbard, Ruwart, Hazlitt, Bastiat, et al - I finally let go of my stockholm syndrome to the State and accepted the consistent logic, morality and economics of anarcho-capitalism.

I'm still learning to this day, mostly ways to further buttress my arguments, logic, economics, etc.

Moral/lesson of the story? No matter what your opposition says - liberal/democrat/socialist/neocon/republican/etc - maintain sound logic, and stay respectful. Even if they are being disrespectful and/or illogical. You may not realize it - but your logic is digging at them even after you're done debating them, and seeds of dissent AND liberty *are* being planted. And they *will* flower. Not only that, but remember to stay logical and respectful for the sake of the audience you are debating in front of.

Nice read man. You've come a long way, god dam. The part in bold struck me pretty hard, and made me reflect on a few recent conversations that I could've handled a little better. For whatever reason, political discussions can really trigger emotions and irrational responses in most people, and i'm definitely no exception. Reading that post made me really realize that I need to make a more consistent effort to start applying what you're talking about here.

Cheers man! Can't +rep ya right now, but will when i can.

AGRP
01-08-2011, 12:06 AM
When I was kid I use to watch stossel on 20/20 and be very consufed on which side he was on, but I always agreed with him


My thoughts exactly!

Are you me? Am I you? lol.

zyphex
01-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Not sure exactly what I was in high school, I just know it was Republican. Fiscally conservative, supported civil liberties, and advocated our interventionist policies in the Middle East. But in the end, security trumped civil liberties, the President's job was to keep us safe, and that's why I supported Bush, because he kept us safe. I'd rather the Muslim extremists shoot at our military men over there then have them come over to America and blow up school buses.

Then last year, my first year at college, I was invited by a professor to attend an IHS (Institute for Human Studies at George Mason University) weekend seminar. Didn't apply until the last day and it was the best decision of my life. IHS introduced me to principled politics right off the bat and made such clear and concise philosophic, historic, and economic arguments in favor of liberty. I didn't have a damn clue about what classical liberalism / libertarianism was before that event. The one thing it lacked was a detailed discussion of national defense issues.

Coming home with that "new" philosophy, I wanted to see if there were any politicians out there that actually made compelling arguments against the direction the country was heading in with the election of Obama. First I got all caught up in Newt Gingrich because he seemed like a talented speaker that could take Obama down in a debate-- very sharp, confident, and appeared to know a bit about history.

Well that lasted about 2 days because then I discovered Youtube videos of Ron Paul at the debates. I had never seen a politician stick out so much and defend himself so successfully among what now seems like a bunch of bumbling buffoons (Romney, McCain, Giuliani, Huckabee, etc.). Everything was awesome about this Ron Paul guy, and he seemed like he had some good points about our foreign policy, but I still didn't think I would want someone like him to be our Commander-In-Chief.

I became addicted to finding Ron Paul Youtube videos-- after being served lies by all the other politicians, my appetite for truth was strong. I eventually decided to buy Revolution: A Manifesto because I just couldn't get enough. After reading the book, I began forming more concrete libertarian (minarchist) views, and now my aim is to spread them as much as I can.

Justinjj1
01-08-2011, 12:49 AM
I've always despised both political parties, even from a very early age. When I was 11 (in 1992) I convinced both of my parents to vote for Ross Perot. I guess I've always been a contratian, but when I finally reached the age to develop my own political opinions, I became extremely influenced by Noam Chomsky and left-libertarianism. For a while in my early adulthood, I considered myself a Democrat, because I viewed them as the lesser of the two evils (and I guess I still do). Gradually, I moved away from Chomsky and towards Rothbard. I learned about Ron Paul shortly after I discovered Lewrockwell.com, and became a huge supporter of him during the 07-08 primaries. I sincerely respected him because of his outspoken views on civil liberties and foreign policy, I viewed him as a far better candidate on these issues than any Democrat. Ron has continued to keep me as a huge supporter because of his plain-spoken honesty. I value candidness more than any other quality in a politician, which is why I absolutely despise his son Rand.

Gaius1981
01-08-2011, 01:27 AM
I used to be a social democrat, which is the "default" position here in Norway. Reading Atlas Shrugged was my gateway drug into capitalism. I've been opposed to religion and social conservatism for as long as I can remember, and still am, so that hasn't changed.

Brett85
01-08-2011, 01:56 AM
I value candidness more than any other quality in a politician, which is why I absolutely despise his son Rand.

Or maybe you despise Rand because he isn't a "left libertarian."

nbhadja
01-08-2011, 02:27 AM
13 years old to 17- anarcho-punk rocker

17 years old to 20- 60% politically apathetic, 40% neo-con

20 years old I discover Ron Paul during his 2008 campaign, convert to libertarian

somewhere between 2-4 months after that I turned anarcho-capitalist

TY Ron Paul.

Similar path as me by I ended up an anarchist.

From neocon until age 19 (2007) to then ron paul libertarian and then to anarchist in the past 6 months. It was a chain of learning started by discovering Ron Paul 3 years ago.

This is my first post here in a while for obvious reasons. I just decided to come on here and see how active this place still is.

Philhelm
01-08-2011, 02:47 AM
I used to say that I was a conservative that believed that drugs, prostitution, and gambling should be legal. In my personal life, I tended to be socially conservative, although not politically so (aside for banging a few hookers, of course...). I suppose I was socially moderate and economically conservative, to put it simply. I used to call myself a default Republican, not because I thought the Republicans were great, but because I really didn't like the Democrats. Even today, while I realize the left/right paradigm is a sham, and it's a matter of individualism vs. statism, I still hold the Democrats in a higher level of contempt.

It took time for my philosophy to develop, and I had to turn away from things such as being against gay marriage (as a singular example), since it would be hypocritical to be against government intervention in peoples' personal lives, yet support government intervention in other matters. I suppose I was more or less destined to become a libertarian, but just needed to hammer out the details. I do credit Ron Paul for some of my development, since while researching his ideas it sort of put things together. I had finally found a representative that had resonated with me, and embodied a political philosphy which would be worthy of aspiring to.

At this point, I'm probably on a No Fly List...

tangent4ronpaul
01-08-2011, 03:16 AM
Birth?

Actually I paid no attention to politics till I was 14-16, and that's when I started hanging out with Libertarians.

Became more serious about it when I started following Paul around 2000

Socially liberal, fiscally/foreign policy conservative

-t

keh10
01-08-2011, 03:21 AM
When I was younger I didn't know anything about politics or what positions I supported, but I considered myself a democrat because all of my friends were democrats and we all liked to make fun of Bush together. It wasn't until the primaries started coming around until I realized that I needed to figure out what I believed in. I started feverishly researching all of the mainstream candidates and they're positions, but didn't really make any headway. I don't recall exactly when I discovered Ron Paul, but I remember that my dad mentioned Ron Paul was the only guy who knew what the hell he was talking about and also one of my pothead friends was preaching about Ron Paul for his anti war on drugs policy. I thought to myself, If my dad and my pothead friend (two complete opposites as far as the spectrum of society go) can agree on a candidate, there must really be something to this guy.

After that, it was all gravy. All of the ideas that I had formed about morality, but had never really been able to put into perspective suddenly became crystal clear. Every word that Ron Paul and the other Austrian Economists spoke resonated within me like a bell. To this day, what frustrates me the most is that these ideas are really so simple and make so much common sense, but at the same time so many people struggle so hard to make the connection. I know it's harder for most Americans to make the transition to the philosophy of individualism, but for me it was so easy. Just a click in my head and I was converted. I guess it's just frustrating to see how difficult it can be to introduce new ideas to someone who is set in their ways.

BenIsForRon
01-08-2011, 04:35 AM
I've actually become less of a libertarian after reading blogs like Lew Rockwell and some of the crazy bastards at Mises over the past couple years. I still have more in common with libertarians than any other philosophy, though.

What got me super cereal about liberty was the Military Comissions Act, I just couldn't believe that government could shit on the constitution in plain view like that and get away with it.

amy31416
01-08-2011, 05:05 AM
Always had a "laws are for the stupid" mantra, always been anti-war, always knew that the majority of politicians are sociopaths who should be kept on a very short leash...it's a natural fit for the likes of me. Even though I voted prior to RP, it was always a situation where I held my nose to do so.

JCF
01-08-2011, 05:13 AM
1. Like most the school system along with my parents turned me into a liberal-lite where I based most of my decisions (even personal ones) strongly on emotion without using any kind of critical thinking skills.

2. Found talk radio, Mark Levin, Hated Hannity, no opinion on Rush and loved Savage. During this time I went from basic conservative to raging social conservative and then neo-con.

3. After about a year of my "conservative" stage I became more wary of what the talk guys were saying; instead of blindly listening I decided to check out what they were talking about, and while they weren't always liars, they often exaggerated their points and went off on fake-tantrums... I decided I couldn't trust them, the talk radio became too simplistic for my taste and overall, I just felt it was a big rage-fest in order to get more ratings. I was confused at this point.

4. After the elections I decided to put talk radio down and figure out things for myself, or as I thought I could... I researched and researched and found the libertarians, found Ron Paul etc... Became somewhat of a libertarian, although like with everything else I'm willing to drop any politician without any hesitation, deciding never to trust any of them again, no matter how good their record is.

5. Found Mises, got into that, played around with Revleft (Marxists...) and got into anarchism/voluntarism approach; and while this it was fun it just wasn't going to happen in my lifetime, I figured other than to self-education for selfish reasons there was no use in pursuing any of it. At this point in time, a violent revolution is futile.

6. Now, I'm just a pragmatist, libertarian at heart. I still like (not love) Ron but he's only got so much time. I'm thinking of getting out of politics because I'm the only one that I know that gives a shit, other than people I know (but never seen) on the internet. If America ever collapses then I think it's deserving, I will feel bad only for those that pursued liberty, everyone else can fuck off.

If it doesn't collapse then good, I can enjoy the love of my loved ones. I'm not expecting it to fail, nor am I saying it won't... But I think all nations we see today will eventually fall or merge, and no matter which one I don't think it will be an easy transition.

--
I could never see myself going back to being a liberal, I hate liberalism as a personal philosophy.

BenIsForRon
01-08-2011, 05:36 AM
I'm thinking of getting out of politics because I'm the only one that I know that gives a shit, other than people I know (but never seen) on the internet. If America ever collapses then I think it's deserving, I will feel bad only for those that pursued liberty, everyone else can fuck off.

Well, that's the pessimist way too look at it, if you look at the other side of the coin, liberty is more popular than ever. You hear liberals and conservatives talking about auditing the fed, Ron Paul has changed parts of the republican platform, and you see citizens around the world rejecting militarism and globalization. For example, more and more people are realizing they should be investing in local banks instead of international ones, and the Afghanistan War is the most unpopular it's ever been.

What we need now is more activists. We need more people to believe that we can actually change things through collective action. If we get lucky, we'll get to critical mass before everything else goes to shit.

Zack
01-08-2011, 06:18 AM
Pretty much have always been libertarian at every first consideration of every civic concept, though I certainly wasn't raised in that atmosphere and didn't make a study of libertarian philosophy or politics until my twenties.

One example I remember in particular is the increased discussion about affirmative action in the 90's. Perhaps Contract with America-era but I think a bit earlier, can't remember. I remember the feeling of disgust, not only that people would get treated differently by those with a monopoly on violence based on a perception of their physical appearance, but that such an idea was even CLOSE to being on the table. That people could sit around with their cocktails and move human beings around like chess pieces. What people believed (including all my immediate family) often made me feel like I was in an episode of the Twilight zone. The last sane person alive. About that time I probably heard of the word libertarian. It was at least some comfort to know that there were enough of us out there somewhere to give us an inch in the dictionary.

The revolution fills my heart. I only hope enough of us our willing to die for liberty over these next few decades, because I suspect we're humanities very last chance, very last hail mary pass. When I say "die" that doesn't mean offensive, or even defensive violence. Ghandhi proved that he was willing to die without raising a hand, but I think we (say, the couple million most activist libertarians) will have exactly as much freedom 60 years from now as we demonstrate that we are willing to die for, and no more. You will have as much freedom (government structure-wise) as the critical mass (probably would need to be well over a million in unison) of us are willing to orphan our children in the interest of.

johnrocks
01-08-2011, 07:29 AM
I always considered myself a conservative but I grew up when men like Barry Goldwater were the face of conservatism, I just changed labels, have the same overall philosophy I did 35-40 years ago when I was a growing boy/teen/young man.

EndDaFed
01-08-2011, 08:54 AM
Liberal --> Centrist --> Neoconish Conservative --> Paleoconservative --> Minarchist --> Anarcho Capitalist --> Plain Anarchist --> Open Source Technocrat

Theocrat
01-08-2011, 09:05 AM
I was formerly a Republican back in 2000, until I watched a creation seminar with Dr. Kent Hovind and heard him speak about the principles of civil government, from a Biblical perspective. Most of what he said was from a libertarian view (though he didn't call it that), and I was immediately intrigued and eventually changed my political philosophy.

outspoken
01-08-2011, 09:10 AM
I was a bandwagon neo con for a long time due to my upbringing and 9/11 brainwashing. I've done a lot of soul searching in the past few years. I read a lot of new age spirituality books as well as Ron Paul. I think to be a libertarian you have to always be willing to question why and seek greater understanding of both yourself as well as the world in which we live. For most people, they get so emotionally attached to an ideology that they stop seeking greater truth. It should be the goal of all human beings to seek the greatest amount of peace and love both internally as well as externally. Peace can never come at the barrel of a gun and that is what government offers; all government as demonstrated by the history of humanity. My current philosophy is based on my previous atheist leaning thoughts. There are two distinct levels of consciousness. The first is that which can be defined as that which resides within the 5 senses. The other dimension is that which can be felt but not defined by the five senses. It is that experience that we refer to as love but has can not be proven. It is in this higher dimension that the potential exists to revolutionize our entire race in who we perceive one another and interact. This is the God dimension... it is hard to reside in this dimension because it is not our natural tendency. Even religion, has a propensity to manipulate and control people's minds because most people are aware of their own egoic/sinful nature, only those around them. The vast majority of americans, atheists and religious fundamentalists included, have a serious God complex. To believe that government run by power mongering sociopaths can solved our problems is dilusional. We for the most part have done a very poor job as a race of understanding ego and so still seek out leaders whose entire foundation is one based on fear and control. Many sheep, few true sheppards. Ron Paul is one of the few. Paul is I believe the start of a great shift in American that will be long, hard, and wraught with much resistence by those who believe others are responsible for our own happiness. In the end, love conquers all and so this will be the final revolution for humanity. We have but one choice, evolve ourselves or parrish. I choose love and Ron Paul embodies all my beliefs of what is best for the human race.

Brett85
01-08-2011, 09:17 AM
I used to say that I was a conservative that believed that drugs, prostitution, and gambling should be legal. In my personal life, I tended to be socially conservative, although not politically so (aside for banging a few hookers, of course...). I suppose I was socially moderate and economically conservative, to put it simply. I used to call myself a default Republican, not because I thought the Republicans were great, but because I really didn't like the Democrats. Even today, while I realize the left/right paradigm is a sham, and it's a matter of individualism vs. statism, I still hold the Democrats in a higher level of contempt.

It took time for my philosophy to develop, and I had to turn away from things such as being against gay marriage (as a singular example), since it would be hypocritical to be against government intervention in peoples' personal lives, yet support government intervention in other matters. I suppose I was more or less destined to become a libertarian, but just needed to hammer out the details. I do credit Ron Paul for some of my development, since while researching his ideas it sort of put things together. I had finally found a representative that had resonated with me, and embodied a political philosphy which would be worthy of aspiring to.

At this point, I'm probably on a No Fly List...

I support legalizing drugs, prostitution, and gambling, but I'm opposed to government recognition of same sex marriage. Having the government recognize same sex marriages would result in more government involvement in marriage, not less.

pcosmar
01-08-2011, 09:18 AM
I think I was born a libertarian.
I just never knew what it was called till i started hanging around here.
;)

CaseyJones
01-08-2011, 09:21 AM
government is learned behavior, liberty is natural

speciallyblend
01-08-2011, 09:28 AM
I was a life-long democrat and i saw the republican and democratic party and thought to myself wtf is going on! I started speaking up for marijuana legalization in the communistwealth of Virginia and testified at the general assembly and helped kill some crazy marijuana laws with the help of many others in Virginia ! I went to see harry browne speak and from there joined the LP until i heard this guy named Ron Paul! I was like a republican that makes sense? wtf has the world come to? I then joined the GOP reluctantly and have been a republican for what seems like a lifetime!!! Ron Paul 2012 personal thanks to harry browne:) ps the gop should be thanking Ron Paul!

Rylick
01-08-2011, 09:38 AM
16: Marxist
17: Social Democrat
18: liberal (The european meaning)
19: libertarian

now I am 21 and still all I can think about is libertarian politics. So I'll stay with this
I have come a long way...

speciallyblend
01-08-2011, 09:39 AM
I was a bandwagon neo con for a long time due to my upbringing and 9/11 brainwashing. I've done a lot of soul searching in the past few years. I read a lot of new age spirituality books as well as Ron Paul. I think to be a libertarian you have to always be willing to question why and seek greater understanding of both yourself as well as the world in which we live. For most people, they get so emotionally attached to an ideology that they stop seeking greater truth. It should be the goal of all human beings to seek the greatest amount of peace and love both internally as well as externally. Peace can never come at the barrel of a gun and that is what government offers; all government as demonstrated by the history of humanity. My current philosophy is based on my previous atheist leaning thoughts. There are two distinct levels of consciousness. The first is that which can be defined as that which resides within the 5 senses. The other dimension is that which can be felt but not defined by the five senses. It is that experience that we refer to as love but has can not be proven. It is in this higher dimension that the potential exists to revolutionize our entire race in who we perceive one another and interact. This is the God dimension... it is hard to reside in this dimension because it is not our natural tendency. Even religion, has a propensity to manipulate and control people's minds because most people are aware of their own egoic/sinful nature, only those around them. The vast majority of americans, atheists and religious fundamentalists included, have a serious God complex. To believe that government run by power mongering sociopaths can solved our problems is dilusional. We for the most part have done a very poor job as a race of understanding ego and so still seek out leaders whose entire foundation is one based on fear and control. Many sheep, few true sheppards. Ron Paul is one of the few. Paul is I believe the start of a great shift in American that will be long, hard, and wraught with much resistence by those who believe others are responsible for our own happiness. In the end, love conquers all and so this will be the final revolution for humanity. We have but one choice, evolve ourselves or parrish. I choose love and Ron Paul embodies all my beliefs of what is best for the human race.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm deep:) i hear ya;) :) love your post:)

Koz
01-08-2011, 09:54 AM
I've always had libertarian leanings. But, truth be told I am a recovering neocon. I used to believe in the wars and war on terror bs that I was spoonfed.

Thnk goodness I was smart enough to search out the truth. I discovered Austrian economics and that ultimately led me to Schiff, Woods and RP. Full blown Libertarian now.

Kludge
01-08-2011, 10:03 AM
Neocon-supporting conservative to ~2006, then apathy, then watched Stossel & read Ayn Rand and looked into the LP, then RP debates (or Rand came after the RP debates -- I can't remember anymore), then lots of discussion here after being tricked by an RP fanatic on Youtube. Have been fidgeting around in the bottom bottom-left section of the Nolan Chart since. Biggest influence on what I believe now is def. Robert Anton Wilson -- Nietzsche probably has important influence, too.

Brett85
01-08-2011, 10:48 AM
I've said that I used to be "somewhat" of a neocon back when Bush was President, and the reason why I use the word "somewhat" is because I've always thought that it was completely unnecessary for us to have troops in countries like Germany and Japan. I've always thought that it's completely unnecessary for us to have troops in countries where we're not actually fighting in a war. I simply supported the idea of pre-emptive war and specifically the Iraq War, because I thought that it was necessary for our national security. I bought into all of the BS about WMD's and Saddam being some sort of "terrorist threat." Also, blind support of President Bush caused me to support the war even after we overthrew Saddam. I simply didn't want to join the Democrats in "Bush bashing." (Even today I think that Bush was a failure in many ways, but many of the personal attacks launched at him by the left were simply over the top.) But I never believed in the principle of "spreading democracy around the world," so I may not have been a neocon in the true sense of the word. But today I've finally learned to think independently and to support principle over party. It shouldn't make any difference whether a war is started by a Republican President or a Democratic President. If we start an unnecessary war, I will be opposed to it in principle from now on. I am no longer blinded by partisanship.

outspoken
01-08-2011, 11:25 AM
you spread democracy through demonstrating the benefits of a peaceful and loving civilization, thus making citizens trapped in oppression rise up themselves and force it within their own borders. America has become so removed from the morality of democracy whether in terms of our lack of respect towards one another, our drug problem, or our materialism that an outsider has to really wonder if democracy is all that great. With great freedom comes great responsibility. You cannot force democracy on another country; in fact, it is a complete hypocracy to do so. Liberty must be born within one's own consciousness for it to be true liberty. Liberty has always been a dream as long as human beings have existed. It has never been close to being realized and at the present moment our US government is taking the nation away from that dream. With great suffering comes great enlightenment. People are waking up and those in positions of authority are doing EVERYTHING possible to keep people asleep.

Distinguished Gentleman
01-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Grew up in a very conservative part of the country. Smart, apathetic, and anti social in school. I only knew that I didn't like liberals, but the conservatives I knew didn't inspire confidence either.

When I went to college, the political discourse ranged Marxist to Liberal and it re-sparked my strong distaste for them. The indoctrinating professors always seemed hell bent on shaping the world view of impressionable freshmen who'd been forced to take their course. My reaction was to side with typical republicans despite my better instincts.

I'd heard frothing outrage over what Paul said to Guiliani at the debates and set out to use facts and logic to prove Paul wrong. You can imagine how that turned out. ;) Spent every waking moment in the following months learning about Libertarian positions and especially economics. It was like finally finding home.

osan
01-08-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm a former Neocon.

I began my Libertarianism when I learned about the Iraq no-bid contracts. Then Ron Pauls teachings pushed me further and further until I was a full-blown Libertarian; probably around 2008.

I was born one.

DeadheadForPaul
01-08-2011, 12:58 PM
In high school, I was strongly anti-war, pro-drug legalization, and very anti-authoritarian

I considered myself to be a liberal because I somehow convinced myself that they believed in social freedom.

As I participated in a Dem presidential campaign, I encountered some of the other supporters and realized that they cared about radically different things. They talked about radical wealth redistribution, white males oppressing people, etc....and this was in a mainstream Dem campaign - this wasn't the Green Party. I felt really out of place when I realized that I had supported a Dem based on the anti-war and pro-legalization stuff, which they did not REALLY care about anyway

I remember asking a Deadhead community why there was no third option to the GOP and Dems and someone said "check out the libertarian party". I did and, though I'm no longer a member of that party, I am forever indebted to that individual who steered me to the LP site

Next time you see someone seeking an alternative to the 2 parties, ALWAYS be courteous and helpful in pointing them in the right direction. You never know if that person may end up seeing the light and becoming the next Dr. Paul

DeadheadForPaul
01-08-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm a former Neocon.

I began my Libertarianism when I learned about the Iraq no-bid contracts. Then Ron Pauls teachings pushed me further and further until I was a full-blown Libertarian; probably around 2008.

Never too late to come to the party :)

Welcome aboard!

DeadheadForPaul
01-08-2011, 01:04 PM
I was a soft-core Democrat until 2007. I supported raising the minimum wage, government "investment" in green energy, and withdrawing the troops from Iraq. Then in mid-2007, I came across Aravoth's videos and that started my conversion. Those blew my mind.

Those videos were phenomenal.
I know they pumped us up here on the forums, but I'm glad other people stumbled upon them and discovered Dr. Paul in that way

The most refreshing thing about this thread is how many people that discovered Dr. Paul post-2007 :). Guess we did a good job. And our team is growing too!

bill1971
01-08-2011, 01:46 PM
Grew up republican my whole life. Voted for Bush twice, was 100% behind Iraq war. Although always believed in individual liberty, such as legalization of gay marriage, prostitution and drugs(even though none of them apply to my life). I voted for McCain because I thought he was the lesser of two evils but it never sat right with me, so I vowed to be a full blown libertarian and never vote for the lesser of two evils again. Think being in Iraq and Afghanistan is a waste of time and money. Ron Paul is the only politician I can get behind almost 100 percent of the time and if he is out there sticking to his principles there must be others.

bill1971
01-08-2011, 01:49 PM
I've said that I used to be "somewhat" of a neocon back when Bush was President, and the reason why I use the word "somewhat" is because I've always thought that it was completely unnecessary for us to have troops in countries like Germany and Japan. I've always thought that it's completely unnecessary for us to have troops in countries where we're not actually fighting in a war. I simply supported the idea of pre-emptive war and specifically the Iraq War, because I thought that it was necessary for our national security. I bought into all of the BS about WMD's and Saddam being some sort of "terrorist threat." Also, blind support of President Bush caused me to support the war even after we overthrew Saddam. I simply didn't want to join the Democrats in "Bush bashing." (Even today I think that Bush was a failure in many ways, but many of the personal attacks launched at him by the left were simply over the top.) But I never believed in the principle of "spreading democracy around the world," so I may not have been a neocon in the true sense of the word. But today I've finally learned to think independently and to support principle over party. It shouldn't make any difference whether a war is started by a Republican President or a Democratic President. If we start an unnecessary war, I will be opposed to it in principle from now on. I am no longer blinded by partisanship.


I agree with the Bush bashing. There was a good amount of Bush disagreeing which is good in my eyes but when people started comparing him to Hitler and saying he went to steal oil or to avenge his daddy, that was where it got out of hand. Same thing for Obama, people honestly think he is a muslim, not born in the USA that wants to destroy this country on purpose. He may do it by accident but I dont think his intentions are evil.

MaxPower
01-08-2011, 01:50 PM
I think I've always had essentially a libertarian inclination, but I would have identified myself as a libertarian starting around February of 2008. Prior to that, I had a smattering of opinions on isolated political issues that had caught my interest enough for consideration, but I didn't have an articulated unifying ideology or affiliation- once I really looked into libertarianism, I found that nearly all of my old positions fell into place within its context, and that I had, more or less, been using libertarian reasoning all along.

guitarlifter
01-08-2011, 02:00 PM
I was never very political until I got arrested, fined, lost my license and jailed (on top of a record, which hurts) for steroid possession. Afterward, I felt like my rights had been violated because I just saw a reduction in my own rights without having violated anyone's rights. I was required to see counseling TWICE because of this arrest. Once through my school, then once again six months later (when I was finally charged . . . I honestly thought I was never going to be charged) through the government because I was tried and penalized by both systems (I was on university grounds when this happened) Previously, I always thought of myself to be a moderate, but I was actually a libertarian, and I just didn't know it. I called myself a moderate because I liked the social freedoms of the left and the economic freedoms of the right. I first saw the term, "libertarianism," on my friend's facebook page when I was looking at his political stance. He was listed as a "libertarian," and, out of curiosity, I looked it up. Surely enough, I agreed with the ideology pretty much in its entirety. The rest is history. I would have called myself a libertarian sometime in 2009, I believe. I'm currently working on transforming my neocon PASTOR of a father into a libertarian. This is difficult because he thinks he knows all, but I've studied theology as it applies to applying it to political ideologies, and libertarianism is the one that is supported by Christian theology.

eOs
01-08-2011, 02:16 PM
I was formerly a Republican back in 2000, until I watched a creation seminar with Dr. Kent Hovind and heard him speak about the principles of civil government, from a Biblical perspective. Most of what he said was from a libertarian view (though he didn't call it that), and I was immediately intrigued and eventually changed my political philosophy.

You went to a seminar with this guy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lXlZiRchKY


I'm so sorry..

Heimdallr
01-08-2011, 02:25 PM
My former hero:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FqXD7nfEOzk/SeKxSi1fgYI/AAAAAAAADBI/7_9YnujgblY/s400/hugo-chavez.jpg

StilesBC
01-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Around 2005. Was previously a confused socialist, but more focused on social issues like marijuana legalization, democratic reform, and separation of church and state. Was also pretty vehemently anti-war and anti-free trade. I say "confused" because I had read Animal Farm and some dystopian novels, so I realized how communism was impossible. But I was also reading Chomsky and believed that the reason socialism wasn't working was because of US interventionism.

Then I started learning about economics, and figured out somehow that income inequality was not due to "capitalist profit motives," but rather the financial and monetary system. After reading a bunch of stuff related to that on financialsense.com, stockhouse.com, kitco.com, and similar websites I naturally came across the word Libertarian, which I had never heard before. I found that it was pretty compatible with my socially liberal opinions, agnostic religious views, anti-foreign interventionism and general dislike of US style politics.

So it was only really the understanding of the financial and monetary system that caused me to go from being a self-described socialist to a libertarian. Once I saw how evil those systems were, I figured out quite quickly that social welfare programs would be easily corrupted by self interested "planners," bureaucratic waste and corporate co-opting of policy.

I have a feeling that there are millions out there who had similar beliefs as I, yet have simply not come across the necessary material to educate themselves about the financial system. I think if the words "corporatism" and "libertarianism" (properly defined) entered the political lexicon of the mainstream, there would be many similar converts.

mport1
01-08-2011, 06:35 PM
I've been a libertarian since 2004 when I started getting interested in politics. I was drawn into it by Michael Badnark's constitution class videos. I was a minarchist until 2008 and have since become a voluntaryist.