Gary Johnson rapidly becoming RP's worst opponent for president.

[klamath]

Sorry but GJ is an egotistical man that is in it for his own glory. All the talk that he was just going to run to expand the debate and then drop out before the elections and endorse RP is proving to be a real joke.
He saw the base RP built and thinks he can slip in and scoop it up. When magazines like National Review are running big articles they know they are trying to split RP's base and nullify the libertarian republican movement. All the RP supporters had better start paying attention to this sneaky coop of RP's chances and stand up for the man that fought 30 lonely years to build a base. Gary Johnson WILL NOT win the republican nomination but he will destroy any chance RP has. Republicans are not going to nominate a man that is prochoice, pro open borders, a cheater on his wife and a recent MJ user.


When asked if he’s the reincarnation of the crusty libertarian, however, Johnson says he “disavows that.” “We need to expand the base. We can’t be the obstructionist party. Ron Paul got 9 percent of the Republican vote. That just doesn’t fly,” Johnson warns.

[specsaregood]

You are gonna believe what national review claims he said?

[QueenB4Liberty]

I've been thinking about this too. I would much rather have Ron Paul run. I hardly know Gary Johnson.

[trey4sports]

They're both good. Ron > Gary, but if you look at the broader picture you should realize that in the last 20 or 30 years we have had many good candidates so if Ron doesn't run and Gary does I wont be completely disappointed.

[kah13176]

I agree. Quite frankly, the liberty movement needs to triple its efforts under a single candidate in 2012. When there's competition like this, the vote is split and both are marginalized.

[klamath]

You are gonna believe what national review claims he said?
Yes I believe GJ said this. Go back and listen to his RTR speech and his favorite word was "I, I, I" The guy is egotistical.

[klamath]

They're both good. Ron > Gary, but if you look at the broader picture you should realize that in the last 20 or 30 years we have had many good candidates so if Ron doesn't run and Gary does I wont be completely disappointed.
GJ is no RP. He is no longer a 2nd or 3rd choice to me anymore. As a strong supporter of defending Israel with american forces makes his whole idea of getting out of the middle east a joke. We CAN"T get out of the middle east if that is the case. If it is a choice of supporting a war supporting, abortion supporting candidate I have a lot of republicans I can pick from.

[speciallyblend]

there is no way gary johnson is gonna ever swoop me away from Ron Paul 2012. The bottom line is Ron Paul 2012 or the gop is pretty much screwed!! gary might get me as a sympathy vote after i look at 3rd party candidates in a general!! Having been a republican for yrs now what seems like a lifetime:) The gop has pretty much forced me to support Ron Paul 2012 with not much else to choose from within the gop! Is that my fault? I think we all know who is to blame the gop establishment!!! Gary is along way off from having me send him my hard-earned dollar but i can tell you i would find the money to nominate RON PAUL 2012!

[Natalie]

//

[Wren]

If he is running purely for his own purposes and totally ignoring our cause, then he is to be treated as a bigger threat because he will steal votes away from RP likely voters. Even if Ron did not run, I would still not vote for GJ. The more I read about him, the more I do not trust.

[trey4sports]

people have such tender feelings on this forum....

[klamath]

people have such tender feelings on this forum....
Why did I hurt your feeling for calling GJ what he is?:)

[klamath]

Gary Johnson is great. I really love that there will be two liberty candidates in the debates kicking neocon butt! But I wish Johnson would just wait until 2016. Ron only has this one shot. Gary is still young and him running will just split the liberty vote imo.
This is why I believe he is egotistical. We are already getting GJ people coming on here saying RP doesn't own these forums.

[speciallyblend]

Gary Johnson is great. I really love that there will be two liberty candidates in the debates kicking neocon butt! But I wish Johnson would just wait until 2016. Ron only has this one shot. Gary is still young and him running will just split the liberty vote imo.

don't get me wrong i don't hate Gary:) it will be nice to hear him in the debates but Ron Paul is where it is at;)

[speciallyblend]

This is why I believe he is egotistical. We are already getting GJ people coming on here saying RP doesn't own these forums.

well i would kindly remind them they can create their own forum aka garyjohnson.com !!

[HazyHusky420]

Sorry but GJ is an egotistical man that is in it for his own glory. All the talk that he was just going to run to expand the debate and then drop out before the elections and endorse RP is proving to be a real joke.
He saw the base RP built and thinks he can slip in and scoop it up. When magazines like National Review are running big articles they know they are trying to split RP's base and nullify the libertarian republican movement. All the RP supporters had better start paying attention to this sneaky coop of RP's chances and stand up for the man that fought 30 lonely years to build a base. Gary Johnson WILL NOT win the republican nomination but he will destroy any chance RP has. Republicans are not going to nominate a man that is prochoice, pro open borders, a cheater on his wife and a recent MJ user.

and neocons and social conservatives are always accusing libertarians of trying to destroy the Tea Party movement because they're more worried about the guy who lost all of his property and wealth to the bankers than whether or not gays and pot smokers should be thrown into ovens.

[Distinguished Gentleman]

I like Gary but he is a terrible debater and will do absolutely awful in Iowa. Is there anybody more different than last election's Iowa winner Mike Huckabee?

Everybody think of Aqua Buddha and take a deep breath. Realistically, we'll be the Kucinich/Gravel of the Republican debates. It'll be fun. Let's not start eating each other alive yet.

[klamath]

I like Gary but he is a terrible debater and will do absolutely awful in Iowa. Is there anybody more different than last election's Iowa winner Mike Huckabee?

Everybody think of Aqua Buddha and take a deep breath. Realistically, we'll be the Kucinich/Gravel of the Republican debates. It'll be fun. Let's not start eating each other alive yet.
That is what they called RP in the last election, this election he has a lot more respect.

[FSP-Rebel]

I think that Gary knows his spot in the next primary, I wouldn't worry too much about him trying to tank RP '12. I've met him and I don't think he would thwart Ron.

[Wren]

Realistically, we'll be the Kucinich/Gravel of the Republican debates. It'll be fun. Let's not start eating each other alive yet.

No, I do not believe so this time around. RP now has WAY more credibility and name recognition than his last run.

[HazyHusky420]

Kucinich/Gravel

Wow! I feel i'm in 2007 all over again! Now I just need a slower computer, an emo haircut and a MySpace account and i'll be living in the past for sure!

[speciallyblend]

I think that Gary knows his spot in the next primary, I wouldn't worry too much about him trying to tank RP '12. I've met him and I don't think he would thwart Ron.

good to hear;)

[klamath]

I think that Gary knows his spot in the next primary, I wouldn't worry too much about him trying to tank RP '12. I've met him and I don't think he would thwart Ron.
He's already doing it. "We can’t be the obstructionist party." Looks like that is going to be his theme in running against RP. We can't have doc No.

[FSP-Rebel]

He's already doing it. "We can’t be the obstructionist party." Looks like that is going to be his theme in running against RP. We can't have doc No.

I see your point but I don't think he has any following outside of the Ron fans. He'd be buried alive if he didn't give Ron his due. If he goes that far then he truly is a schmuck. Things remain to be seen.

[Epic]

Look, Gary Johnson is way too inarticulate. It's not gonna work.

Just focus on Ron Paul.

[Brian4Liberty]

Republicans are not going to nominate a man that is prochoice,

I am not fond of his open borders stance, that's my biggest gripe. Would you say that his abortion stance is your biggest issue with him?


You are gonna believe what national review claims he said?

Never. But a word of advise to Gary would be to not let the media bait you into saying negative things about anyone, and especially not like minded people! If he wants to take a stab at anyone in the GOP, he better start with Lyndsey Graham. And we can provide him a with a longer list if he needs it. ;)

[FSP-Rebel]

Look, Gary Johnson is way too inarticulate. It's not gonna work.

Just focus on Ron Paul.

Yup.

[klamath]

I am not fond of his open borders stance, that's my biggest gripe. Would you say that his abortion stance is your biggest issue with him?



Never. But a word of advise to Gary would be to not let the media bait you into saying negative things about anyone, and especially not like minded people! If he wants to take a stab at anyone in the GOP, he better start with Lyndsey Graham. And we can provide him a with a longer list if he needs it. ;)

GJ is going after RP's voters so he has to show them he is better than than RP. "I am not an obstructionist like my opponent, I will get results for you!"

[HazyHusky420]

Look, Gary Johnson is way too inarticulate. It's not gonna work.

Just focus on Ron Paul.

Gary use to be a heavy pot smoker. For many marijuana makes them wittier. It expanded my imagination far beyond what it was (not saying I didn't have a big imagination before that).

[brandon]

Relax...he's not going to have much of an impact either way.

[Bern]

Gary Johnson will attract the attention (and possibly votes) of people who view Ron Paul as a kook or too old. IMO, it would be a good thing for him to be part of the campaign dialogue. It will lead to more compare/contrast media exposure for Ron Paul. Whether either Gary or Ron can sway enough voters out of their (political party) rusty cages to have a realistic shot of winning is yet to be determined.

Anyone who believes in democracy and the free market of ideas should welcome competition.

[FSP-Rebel]

GJ is going after RP's voters so he has to show them he is better than than RP. "I am not an obstructionist like my opponent, I will get results for you!"

And do you think that we'll bail for mr. incoherent over the Doc? He's toast and he knows it bro.

[Bman]

All I know is that Ron has my vote unless he drops out. If he see's a cart and tells me it's worth pushing at that point I may seriously consider someone else.

[FSP-Rebel]

Don't you all get it. Ron is in for the long haul. Rand in the Senate and all, ya'll are dumb to think that Ron won't take the mantle to make a move. Patriots died back in the old days for the Revolution, Ron is comfortable but has longed to make his foremost mark. Don't you realize his mission? It's time for him to leave his mark like never before and Carol has authorized this for a reason. Game time, keep the powder dry til the general says so. Aka money.

[Wren]

And do you think that we'll bail for mr. incoherent over the Doc? He's toast and he knows it bro.

That's the thing that irks me. I'm sure he KNOWS that he can't possibly win, yet he plans on running anyway, and at a time when RP's chances of winning are high. But I'm still skeptical. There could be something going on between him and RP, perhaps a good conspiracy of some sorts where he campaigns seriously then ends up dropping out. I don't know about that though and I'm still waiting for someone to fill us in, but for now, I do not trust GJ.

[ronaldo23]

That's the thing that irks me. I'm sure he KNOWS that he can't possibly win, yet he plans on running anyway, and at a time when RP's chances of winning are high. But I'm still skeptical. There could be something going on between him and RP, perhaps a good conspiracy of some sorts where he campaigns seriously then ends up dropping out. I don't know about that though and I'm still waiting for someone to fill us in, but for now, I do not trust GJ.

Apparently people close to GJ have said he has intended to run for president for at least the past few years, whether or not Ron runs. But to be honest, I don't think this guy will siphon votes away from Ron at all. He won't win more than 5% in any given state. He is not well-recognized, not as articulate or passionate, and he doesn't have the ability to energize a base like Ron. And it's not like the pro-choice guy is going to get any neo-con votes or anything.

[cindy25]

it would be much harder for Fox , MSM, to exclude RP from the debates if GJ runs. they can't exclude everyone. let them both run, in IA, the Johnson can withdraw, maybe run as a Paul/Johnson ticket as Reagan did with Swietzer back in 1976. it might force the others to name their running mates.

[Sola_Fide]

Yep^^^

[MRoCkEd]

I think it will be good to have them both in the debates, but trouble will start when it comes to the primaries. I don't doubt that Reason/CATO will be backing Gary Johnson.

As far as moneybombs, they need to all be for Ron.

[Gage]

As far as moneybombs, they need to all be for Ron.

Don't bet on it... *rolleyes*

[Ethek]

Yes I believe GJ said this. Go back and listen to his RTR speech and his favorite word was "I, I, I" The guy is egotistical.

The guy is talking up his points. Part of Gary Johnson's personal makeup makes him completely honest. Why, The guy has some very aspergerian traits, a la some very smart people. Hence, he is unacceptably blunt at times, completely honest and as you pointed out, it may be his biggest challenge to click with voters because of it.

[Romulus]

Gary who?

Ron Paul 100% or no one.

[james1906]

Let him run. He won't get traction, but should get enough support and name recognition to want to run for Senate in 2012.

[Krugerrand]

it would be much harder for Fox , MSM, to exclude RP from the debates if GJ runs. they can't exclude everyone. let them both run, in IA, the Johnson can withdraw, maybe run as a Paul/Johnson ticket as Reagan did with Swietzer back in 1976. it might force the others to name their running mates.

John Mackey is my backup candidate if Paul were to not run (Thankfully, all signs are pointing towards him running.) As such, John Mackey is my #1 choice for Paul's VP.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?213062-John-Mackey-for-President-2012

[erowe1]

Sorry but GJ is an egotistical man that is in it for his own glory. All the talk that he was just going to run to expand the debate and then drop out before the elections and endorse RP is proving to be a real joke.
He saw the base RP built and thinks he can slip in and scoop it up. When magazines like National Review are running big articles they know they are trying to split RP's base and nullify the libertarian republican movement. All the RP supporters had better start paying attention to this sneaky coop of RP's chances and stand up for the man that fought 30 lonely years to build a base. Gary Johnson WILL NOT win the republican nomination but he will destroy any chance RP has. Republicans are not going to nominate a man that is prochoice, pro open borders, a cheater on his wife and a recent MJ user.

1) There's nothing wrong with anything he said in that quote.

2) He probably won't do well enough to hurt Ron Paul's chances. The RP base will stick with RP and Johnson will drop out before the primaries, not because of some strategy to enter the race merely for the debates, but because he'll be polling at 2% in December 2011. When that happens, he'll endorse RP (as long as we don't bend over backwards to make an enemy out of him).

3) If by some chance Johnson's campaign really takes off and he succeeds at expanding his support beyond RP folks so that he becomes a real contender, and so that RP's best option is to drop out and endorse Johnson, I'd take that as a success.

[Elwar]

New story: National Review and other War Hawks (http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2011/01/gary-johnson-takes-gentle-swipe-at-ron.html) seek to create a rift between Johnson and Paul supporters. Paul supporters fall for it.

Face it, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson in the debates will get people thinking..."hmm, this Ron Paul guy isn't alone in his thinking, maybe I should listen to what he's actually saying".

Johnson is out there playing politics more than Ron Paul. That's not what we want in a president, but that's what gets more voters.

The more supporters Johnson gets, and the less rift there is between his supporters and our supporters, the more voters we can pull over to support Ron Paul once Johnson drops out.

Don't perpetuate the rift.

[klamath]

Apparently people close to GJ have said he has intended to run for president for at least the past few years, whether or not Ron runs. But to be honest, I don't think this guy will siphon votes away from Ron at all. He won't win more than 5% in any given state. He is not well-recognized, not as articulate or passionate, and he doesn't have the ability to energize a base like Ron. And it's not like the pro-choice guy is going to get any neo-con votes or anything.
5 percent most likely will cost RP the primary. Many many are decided on less than that.

[klamath]

1) There's nothing wrong with anything he said in that quote.

2) He probably won't do well enough to hurt Ron Paul's chances. The RP base will stick with RP and Johnson will drop out before the primaries, not because of some strategy to enter the race merely for the debates, but because he'll be polling at 2% in December 2011. When that happens, he'll endorse RP (as long as we don't bend over backwards to make an enemy out of him).

3) If by some chance Johnson's campaign really takes off and he succeeds at expanding his support beyond RP folks so that he becomes a real contender, and so that RP's best option is to drop out and endorse Johnson, I'd take that as a success.
There is nothing wrong with what GJ said if you have been a longtime GJ promoter.
GJ is NOT going to drop out before the NH primary. Almost nobody drops out before the NH primary. If they have enough ego to run in the first place they have to at least see what they can do in the first couple of primaries. By that time game is over for RP as his base was split enough to knock him out of the most important primaries.
The fact that GJ will not run and has no interest in running for senate, a seat he could probably win hands down, show he is determination to win the presidency himself.

[klamath]

New story: National Review and other War Hawks (http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2011/01/gary-johnson-takes-gentle-swipe-at-ron.html) seek to create a rift between Johnson and Paul supporters. Paul supporters fall for it.

Face it, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson in the debates will get people thinking..."hmm, this Ron Paul guy isn't alone in his thinking, maybe I should listen to what he's actually saying".

Johnson is out there playing politics more than Ron Paul. That's not what we want in a president, but that's what gets more voters.

The more supporters Johnson gets, and the less rift there is between his supporters and our supporters, the more voters we can pull over to support Ron Paul once Johnson drops out.

Don't perpetuate the rift.
GJ supporters are creating the riff. War hawks are trying to split RP's base by promoting GJ.

[Patriotxi]

I have met Gary and he is a very humble guy. This is just BULL!

[johnrocks]

I really like Gary Johnson, I really love Ron Paul. If the two run, there will be no contest between which one gets the base vote that Ron Paul built but I am glad to see other,younger people who can carry on the fight such as Gary Johnson and Rand Paul.

[klamath]

I have met Gary and he is a very humble guy. This is just BULL!
If it is bull why is GJ already attacking RP?

[erowe1]

Almost nobody drops out before the NH primary.

Half of the 2008 primary candidates dropped out in 2007. If Johnson is polling 2% he'll do the same. If he's polling 10% he'll stay in, and more power to him.

There's nothing wrong with what he said. The only reason anyone would be alarmed by it would be if they had some delusion that the only reason Johnson was running was some weird strategy to help Ron Paul.

[Wren]

I have met Gary and he is a very humble guy. This is just BULL!

The whole idea that people seem to perpetuate on is that GJ WILL drop out and endorse Ron. THAT seems like bull.

Read this thread. He's running for his own purposes, not for the liberty movement: Former Governor Gary Johnson in Houston last night. Recap. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?268124-Former-Governor-Gary-Johnson-in-Houston-last-night.-Recap.)


From another thread:

At least Palin/Gingrich/Huckabee supporters will have the common courtesy not to come to RonPaulForums and solicit donations for their candidate like you know the Gary Johnson people will end up doing.

I have no doubt that this will happen

[klamath]

Half of the 2008 primary candidates dropped out in 2007. If Johnson is polling 2% he'll do the same. If he's polling 10% he'll stay in, and more power to him.

There's nothing wrong with what he said. The only reason anyone would be alarmed by it would be if they had some delusion that the only reason Johnson was running was some weird strategy to help Ron Paul.
Give me the time and date when the candidates dropped out in 2007?

[erowe1]

The whole idea that people seem to perpetuate on is that GJ WILL drop out and endorse Ron. THAT seems like bull.

Read this thread. He's running for his own purposes.

Of course he's running for his own purposes. Anybody who ever thought otherwise was delusional.

But when he does drop out, why do you think he won't endorse RP? He already did in 2008.

[erowe1]

Give me the time and date when the candidates dropped out in 2007?
I don't know the times and dates. But Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo, Jim Gilmore, and Tommy Thompson all dropped out before the primaries. The only one who was polling really low who didn't was Duncan Hunter.

[freshjiva]

Calm down, people. GJ isn't going to steal anything from anyone. Ron and Gary are close personal friends, and Gary has a huge respect for Ron, and vice versa.

Look at us. The Liberty lovers are fighting with each other over who our "leader" should be. We'll never progress if we keep this up.

Gary Johnson happens to be one of the best men we have when it comes to implementation of liberty ideals, and he has done nothing but show his support for Ron Paul in 2008, and there's nothing indicating he'd ever backstab him in 2012.

[Wren]

Of course he's running for his own purposes. Anybody who ever thought otherwise was delusional.

But when he does drop out, why do you think he won't endorse RP? He already did in 2008.

I don't understand your question. If he's running for his own purposes, he will only drop out when all the votes have been taken in. = LESS votes for RP = LESS likely RP will win primary = NO ONE for GJ to endorse

[erowe1]

I don't understand your question. If he's running for his own purposes, he will only drop out when all the votes have been taken in. = LESS votes for RP = LESS likely RP will win primary = NO ONE for GJ to endorse

If he's polling low, he'll drop out before the primaries start, just like everyone who polls low does every election. If I'm wrong and he does really well, then more power to him. If RP can't win, we could do worse than GJ.

Why do you think he won't endorse RP when he drops out? Who do you think he'll endorse instead?

[klamath]

I don't know the times and dates. But Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo, Jim Gilmore, and Tommy Thompson all dropped out before the primaries. The only one who was polling really low who didn't was Duncan Hunter.
You are right on them dropping out before the primaries. However GJ's run has to be only on on the issues and not attack RP in order for him to build the base. He has already given the anti FP people ammo as somebody that doesn't get anything done and isn't good enough. Many Many voters vote on a candidates based on what kind of leadership they have and demonstrate. RP is weak in this and GJ is exploiting it.

[Wren]

If he's polling low, he'll drop out before the primaries start, just like everyone who polls low does every election. If I'm wrong and he does really well, then more power to him. If RP can't win, we could do worse than GJ.

Why do you think he won't endorse RP when he drops out? Who do you think he'll endorse instead?

I do think he will endorse Ron before he drops out, but it's just pure speculation IF he drops out. If he doesn't, then the damage has already been done. I think someone should ask him this question upfront.

[klamath]

Calm down, people. GJ isn't going to steal anything from anyone. Ron and Gary are close personal friends, and Gary has a huge respect for Ron, and vice versa.

Look at us. The Liberty lovers are fighting with each other over who our "leader" should be. We'll never progress if we keep this up.

Gary Johnson happens to be one of the best men we have when it comes to implementation of liberty ideals, and he has done nothing but show his support for Ron Paul in 2008, and there's nothing indicating he'd ever backstab him in 2012.
explain to me how he is any better than Bachmann, Palin, Newt?

[Elwar]

GJ supporters are creating the riff. War hawks are trying to split RP's base by promoting GJ.

Seriously? What GJ supporters? There aren't very many activists other than maybe 5 or so people trying to do any coordinating.

I run the garyjohnson2012.com site...there are a lot of "I heard Johnson on X show last night, let him know he has my support"...followed by no activism. These are the supporters creating the rift?

His supporters are people who haven't heard the message yet, but just happened to hear it from him first. They are Ron Paul supporters in training just like anyone who's heard Ron Paul for the first time.

[erowe1]

explain to me how he is any better than Bachmann, Palin, Newt?

1) He endorsed RP in 2008.
2) He's been against the Iraq war since it began.
3) He's against the war on drugs.
4) He walked the walk as a governor and vetoed a ton of bills.
5) He's not part of the Good Ole' Boy network of the GOP.

He's not RP. He's not perfect. But he'd be a far better candidate than anyone other than RP. And having both in the debates would be a good thing. Yes, that means he would be running against Ron. Yes, it means he would be competing for the same voting block. But we should see it as an opportunity. For RP to win, he needs to beat the other candidates. It won't be handed to him. And GJ is the least of his worries.

[Fredom101]

What is good or great about GJ?
I see that he is NOT opposed to the income tax, he is NOT opposed to the war on drugs, and he's not even fully supporting bringing home all troops. He's GOP lite to me, nothing to see here.

[Fredom101]

1) He endorsed RP in 2008.
2) He's been against the Iraq war since it began.
3) He's against the war on drugs.
4) He walked the walk as a governor and vetoed a ton of bills.
5) He's not part of the Good Ole' Boy network of the GOP.



Nope. Saw him on Hannity and he said he was only for legalizing marijuana, nothing else. :(

[erowe1]

Nope. Saw him on Hannity and he said he was only for legalizing marijuana, nothing else. :(

I still like it.

[klamath]

1) He endorsed RP in 2008.
2) He's been against the Iraq war since it began.
3) He's against the war on drugs.
4) He walked the walk as a governor and vetoed a ton of bills.
5) He's not part of the Good Ole' Boy network of the GOP.

He's not RP. He's not perfect. But he'd be a far better candidate than anyone other than RP. And having both in the debates would be a good thing. Yes, that means he would be running against Ron. Yes, it means he would be competing for the same voting block. But we should see it as an opportunity. For RP to win, he needs to beat the other candidates. It won't be handed to him. And GJ is the least of his worries.
RP needs to hold onto his base and syphon off a few huck, palin Romney voters, He is lost if he is having to defend his base from Johnson.

Johnson;
Pro humanitarian wars
Pro using American troops to defend Israel
Pro abortion.
Those three issues put him in the same or lower class as all the other republicans.
For someone to advocate cutting the defence budget in half and then commit American troops too humanitarian wars is Bill Clinton all over again.

[Elwar]

RP needs to hold onto his base and syphon off a few huck, palin Romney voters, He is lost if he is having to defend his base from Johnson.

Johnson;
Pro humanitarian wars
Pro using American troops to defend Israel
Pro abortion.
Those three issues put him in the same or lower class as all the other republicans.
For someone to advocate cutting the defence budget in half and then commit American troops too humanitarian wars is Bill Clinton all over again.

Why would Ron Paul's base need to be defended if Johnson is so bad on these issues? Wouldn't these issues be cutting into the base of the neo-cons? Of which can then be enlightened on the ideas of liberty?

How do you plan on syphoning off a few huck, palin and romney voters?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The neoconservatives and various other Republicans who don't like Ron Paul have to be praising God that Gary Johnson will be around to siphon off money, support, activism, time and maybe votes if they both stick around that long. Not that they inherently belong to Paul, but it still hurts nonetheless.

Divided support = divided results.

[erowe1]

The neoconservatives and various other Republicans who don't like Ron Paul have to be praising God that Gary Johnson will be around to siphon off money, support, activism, time and maybe votes if they both stick around that long. Not that they inherently belong to Paul, but it still hurts nonetheless.

Divided support = divided results.

The real challenge we have isn't preventing a division of the 10% who already support RP, it's expanding that. I don't really see GJ syphoning off RP's core support. But if we don't broaden that base it wouldn't matter if he did anyway. And I do see him helping broaden it.

[trey4sports]

Jesus, i can't believe some folks.

Gary Johnson = GOP lite ?? are you kidding me??????

Rand Paul wouldn't say half the shit Gary says and yet he gets a free pass because his last name is Paul.

[Wren]

Jesus, i can't believe some folks.

Gary Johnson = GOP lite ?? are you kidding me??????

Rand Paul wouldn't say half the shit Gary says and yet he gets a free pass because his last name is Paul.

Rand ran for the senate, not for president. I wish that GJ would run for senator, we need more liberty candidates helping us not dividing us and splitting up the vote.

[trey4sports]

Rand ran for the senate, not for president. I wish that GJ would run for senator, we need more liberty candidates helping us not dividing us and splitting up the vote.

We got 6% last time!!! The vote is not there to be split!!! People need to here the message from more than one person

[Elwar]

I wonder if the neo-cons are aware that they should only be running one candidate as well. Their split vote last election almost ended in their demise...

Hopefully they don't read these forums and find out that their strategy of running as many establishment candidates as they can and then having one of them win is not the way you win elections.

[Brian4Liberty]

I wonder if the neo-cons are aware that they should only be running one candidate as well. Their split vote last election almost ended in their demise...

Hopefully they don't read these forums and find out that their strategy of running as many establishment candidates as they can and then having one of them win is not the way you win elections.

Or go even further up the chain and they are running candidates in both Parties...which is what we should be doing.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I wonder if the neo-cons are aware that they should only be running one candidate as well. Their split vote last election almost ended in their demise...

Pro-war types make up like 85% of the GOP electorate. They can afford to run as many as they want. And the media will pay more attention to them too. The media is going to ignore Gary Johnson as long as he hovers in the N/A-1% range.

[Wren]

The only way to solve this is to put the pressure on GJ himself. He needs to be very clear as to what his intentions are in this race and what he hopes to achieve. Is he going to drop out before the primaries? If not, why is he comfortable dividing up the liberty movement and reducing RP's chance to get elected? These questions and more need to be asked to his face.

[Fredom101]

Jesus, i can't believe some folks.

Gary Johnson = GOP lite ?? are you kidding me??????

Rand Paul wouldn't say half the shit Gary says and yet he gets a free pass because his last name is Paul.

I don't like Rand either.
Everyone in the GOP who isn't a full-on neocon seems to get a free pass among some so-called libertarians.

[Elwar]

The only way to solve this is to put the pressure on GJ himself. He needs to be very clear as to what his intentions are in this race and what he hopes to achieve. Is he going to drop out before the primaries? If not, why is he comfortable dividing up the liberty movement and reducing RP's chance to get elected? These questions and more need to be asked to his face.

Have you ever heard a presidential candidate, even a third party candidate, ever say that they weren't in the race to win it?

When asked why he was running in 2008...what did Ron Paul say?

[Wren]

Have you ever heard a presidential candidate, even a third party candidate, ever say that they weren't in the race to win it?


No, but if GJ doesn't explain his intentions, then the idea of him dropping out to endorse Ron before primaries is just pure speculation. Are you saying that we should automatically trust him to drop out and not take him seriously at all?

[erowe1]

No, but if GJ doesn't explain his intentions, then the idea of him dropping out to endorse Ron before primaries is just pure speculation. Are you saying that we should automatically trust him to drop out and not take him seriously at all?

There's nothing to trust him or not trust him about. His dropping out is contingent on his failing to build enough support to stay in the race. If that doesn't happen and he ends up doing well, then more power to him. It's win-win. I don't think anybody ever thought that GJ was following some ruse of pretending to run for president when he was secretly doing it to help RP win somehow.

[Krugerrand]

There's nothing to trust him or not trust him about. His dropping out is contingent on his failing to build enough support to stay in the race. If that doesn't happen and he ends up doing well, then more power to him. It's win-win. I don't think anybody ever thought that GJ was following some ruse of pretending to run for president when he was secretly doing it to help RP win somehow.

You're spot on here. People are try to argue this from both sides and it's not legit. GJ and RP are two different people and have two different sets of ideas. If GJ is not good enough because his ideas are different - then it's fair for him to run on those ideas. If those ideas catch on with the voters - so be it. Its up to RP and supporters to convince people that RP's ideas are better than GJ's.

There are times when it becomes strategic for candidates with similar ideas to bow out. That's why Rudy dropped out after losing Florida. He didn't want to split with McCain. The idea that a candidate must win in the first couple primaries or all is lost is not valid. When did Obama/Clinton settle their race?

Any candidate is in the contest to win. Endorsement-if-losing questions are not legitimate. Any candidate should answer "I plan on winning - in which case I will endorse myself." When pressed the candidate should answer - "I have made and will make no plans for losing." Like when everybody was asked in they last debate if they would endorse whichever GOP wins ... I'd love to see RP be the last to answer after everybody else says yes ... I'd like to hear him call all the other candidates cowards and ask them -
"If your football team is down by an un-winnable amount, should they start running the ball the other direction?"
"if we were attacked by another nation would you support which ever side wins?"
"I'm in this race because I believe in my principles and nobody here represents them as much as I do. I have fought for the principles of individual freedom and a sound economy based on sound money my entire political career. I will never plan on losing the battle for freedom. I don't think our party or America wants a candidate that is willing to plan on losing."

[Wren]

There's nothing to trust him or not trust him about. His dropping out is contingent on his failing to build enough support to stay in the race. If that doesn't happen and he ends up doing well, then more power to him. It's win-win. I don't think anybody ever thought that GJ was following some ruse of pretending to run for president when he was secretly doing it to help RP win somehow.

There's one problem with that though: he might not drop out at all. it's not a win-win for people who do not want GJ as president.

Johnson:
Pro-humanitarian wars
Pro-intervention when it comes to to defending Israel
He believes that Iraq, a broke nation, owes us money for liberating them.
Pro-open borders
No where near as intelligent or articulate as Ron when it comes to foreign policy or economics

Many people here may not be "purists" when it comes to a senate seat, but the presidency is an entirely different matter imo.

[TheTyke]

I'm not a "purist," however I simply don't trust anyone besides Ron. :\ Every president helps increase the size of government, no matter how good they sound (like Reagan.) I'd probably be happy with someone who actually worked to shrink it, even if it wasn't to the size I wanted... but I'm not sure anyone besides Ron is can be trusted to resist that kind of political pressure and control by the special interests?

[Elwar]

Consider this. Have you been inundated yet with Gary Johnson folks trying to get you to go to CPAC and vote for him? Have you seen on Ron Paul sites a bunch of "Go to CPAC for Gary Johnson" links?

I haven't seen any on Ron Paul sites. But he is out there trying to get people to go to CPAC and vote for him. His campaign is working hard on it, trying to coordinate bus rides and getting people discounted tickets.

He's creating his own base.

Wouldn't you rather have access to his base? Work side by side with them so that when the time comes, if he does drop out, we can seamlessly bring them over to support Ron Paul?

Or just attack Johnson and once he drops out have all of his supporters reject Ron Paul because of the treatment they got during the campaign.

Politics aint beanbag. There's no way to know where the candidates will stand next year. I'd rather have 2 horses in the race.

[Krugerrand]

There's one problem with that though: he might not drop out at all. it's not a win-win for people who do not want GJ as president.

Johnson:
Pro-humanitarian wars
Pro-intervention when it comes to to defending Israel
He believes that Iraq, a broke nation, owes us money for liberating them.
Pro-open borders
No where near as intelligent or articulate as Ron when it comes to foreign policy or economics

Many people here may not be "purists" when it comes to a senate seat, but the presidency is an entirely different matter imo.

If it's not a win-win for you, then by that logic, Huckabee shouldn't run because it would be bad if he wins. Palin shouldn't run because it would be bad if she wins. Romney shouldn't run because it would be bad if he wins. Then GJ is simply opposition to be defeated - and you have no grounds to say the opposition should put their ideas up against yours in a fair competition.

[TheTyke]

Consider this. Have you been inundated yet with Gary Johnson folks trying to get you to go to CPAC and vote for him? Have you seen on Ron Paul sites a bunch of "Go to CPAC for Gary Johnson" links?

I haven't seen any on Ron Paul sites. But he is out there trying to get people to go to CPAC and vote for him. His campaign is working hard on it, trying to coordinate bus rides and getting people discounted tickets.

He's creating his own base.

Wouldn't you rather have access to his base? Work side by side with them so that when the time comes, if he does drop out, we can seamlessly bring them over to support Ron Paul?

Or just attack Johnson and once he drops out have all of his supporters reject Ron Paul because of the treatment they got during the campaign.

Politics aint beanbag. There's no way to know where the candidates will stand next year. I'd rather have 2 horses in the race.

Great point. I've yet to see anything but damage caused by attacking other candidates. We need all these people to win, and can't afford to alienate them. If you're going to attack someone, DON'T identify yourself as a Paul supporter. Going negative is something only to resort to when you have a direct benefit - like in a 1v1 race, to discourage their base from voting. Politics is very strategic, it's not just doing or saying what we want...

[Wren]

Consider this. Have you been inundated yet with Gary Johnson folks trying to get you to go to CPAC and vote for him? Have you seen on Ron Paul sites a bunch of "Go to CPAC for Gary Johnson" links?

I haven't seen any on Ron Paul sites. But he is out there trying to get people to go to CPAC and vote for him. His campaign is working hard on it, trying to coordinate bus rides and getting people discounted tickets.

He's creating his own base.

Wouldn't you rather have access to his base? Work side by side with them so that when the time comes, if he does drop out, we can seamlessly bring them over to support Ron Paul?

Or just attack Johnson and once he drops out have all of his supporters reject Ron Paul because of the treatment they got during the campaign.

Politics aint beanbag. There's no way to know where the candidates will stand next year. I'd rather have 2 horses in the race.

No, it would be great for both the RP and GJ base to merge and I understand where you're coming from. I would LIKE to have GJ in this race as well but the key word is "if", IF he drops out. We don't know if he will, and we can't predict what kind of percentage he'll get because anything can happen.


I'm not a "purist," however I simply don't trust anyone besides Ron. :\ Every president helps increase the size of government, no matter how good they sound (like Reagan.) I'd probably be happy with someone who actually worked to shrink it, even if it wasn't to the size I wanted... but I'm not sure anyone besides Ron is can be trusted to resist that kind of political pressure and control by the special interests?

I and probably many others feel the same way you do. The liberty movement has built all this momentum around RP to make sure he wins

[klamath]

If he's polling low, he'll drop out before the primaries start, just like everyone who polls low does every election. If I'm wrong and he does really well, then more power to him. If RP can't win, we could do worse than GJ.

Why do you think he won't endorse RP when he drops out? Who do you think he'll endorse instead?
Your asssumtion that he will drop out, not anything from him, in fact everything from him seems to indicate the contrary. What doing poorly means is * to 1%. If he is polling 5 to 8% he will think he is doing great and not drop out before the primaries. He will not win with 5 to 8% and neither will RP. After the first couple of primaries it doesn't F*ing matter if he endorces RP because it will be all over.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

It's much better to have one candidate raise all the money and get all the votes than it be split.

The whole 'two candidates are better than one' arguments sound a lot like the same junk used to push the multi-candidate money bomb idea here back in late 2009. "Wouldn't you rather twenty candidates raise $50,000 than one candidate raise a million?" No.

[Wren]

If he is polling 5 to 8% he will think he is doing great and not drop out before the primaries. He will not win with 5 to 8% and neither will RP.

+rep

[Elwar]

Your asssumtion that he will drop out, not anything from him, in fact everything from him seems to indicate the contrary. What doing poorly means is * to 1%. If he is polling 5 to 8% he will think he is doing great and not drop out before the primaries. He will not win with 5 to 8% and neither will RP. After the first couple of primaries it doesn't F*ing matter if he endorces RP because it will be all over.

If Ron Paul has a chance and Johnson is hindering that chance when the primaries come around, you can be assured that his grassroots supporters would turn on him.

It would be political suicide to stay in if Paul has a chance.

If Paul were at ~10% going into NH and Johnson was at 2-3% and didn't drop out...garyjohnson2012.com (the top two site that comes up for a google search for "Gary Johnson") would not be very favorable to Johnson.

But it wouldn't come to that. He's a smart man.

[klamath]

You're spot on here. People are try to argue this from both sides and it's not legit. GJ and RP are two different people and have two different sets of ideas. If GJ is not good enough because his ideas are different - then it's fair for him to run on those ideas. If those ideas catch on with the voters - so be it. Its up to RP and supporters to convince people that RP's ideas are better than GJ's.

There are times when it becomes strategic for candidates with similar ideas to bow out. That's why Rudy dropped out after losing Florida. He didn't want to split with McCain. The idea that a candidate must win in the first couple primaries or all is lost is not valid. When did Obama/Clinton settle their race?

Any candidate is in the contest to win. Endorsement-if-losing questions are not legitimate. Any candidate should answer "I plan on winning - in which case I will endorse myself." When pressed the candidate should answer - "I have made and will make no plans for losing." Like when everybody was asked in they last debate if they would endorse whichever GOP wins ... I'd love to see RP be the last to answer after everybody else says yes ... I'd like to hear him call all the other candidates cowards and ask them -
"If your football team is down by an un-winnable amount, should they start running the ball the other direction?"
"if we were attacked by another nation would you support which ever side wins?"
"I'm in this race because I believe in my principles and nobody here represents them as much as I do. I have fought for the principles of individual freedom and a sound economy based on sound money my entire political career. I will never plan on losing the battle for freedom. I don't think our party or America wants a candidate that is willing to plan on losing."
Yes after Obama won the first 2 out of three primaries it was all over for Hillary. She just wasted 100 million finding that out. At the time I stated hillary was done and people argued with me. Who won? Secretary of State sure doesn't sound like president to me.

[klamath]

Consider this. Have you been inundated yet with Gary Johnson folks trying to get you to go to CPAC and vote for him? Have you seen on Ron Paul sites a bunch of "Go to CPAC for Gary Johnson" links?

I haven't seen any on Ron Paul sites. But he is out there trying to get people to go to CPAC and vote for him. His campaign is working hard on it, trying to coordinate bus rides and getting people discounted tickets.

He's creating his own base.
Wouldn't you rather have access to his base? Work side by side with them so that when the time comes, if he does drop out, we can seamlessly bring them over to support Ron Paul?

Or just attack Johnson and once he drops out have all of his supporters reject Ron Paul because of the treatment they got during the campaign.

Politics aint beanbag. There's no way to know where the candidates will stand next year. I'd rather have 2 horses in the race.
GJ has no base. He is trying to take RP's. GJ is bringing nothing to the base that would vote for RP as a second choice. Will eric dondero vote for RP when GJ drops out and endorses RP?

[Elwar]

Will eric dondero vote for RP when GJ drops out and endorses RP?

Donderoo has a hard on for Palin.

[klamath]

GJ IS going to run, not doubt about that and the point or this thread is to make people aware of what GJ is and see that he stays at *to1% polling so he WILL drop out before the primaries. The last thing I want is to see him get enough traction to think he can win the first primaries and stay in.

[klamath]

Donderoo has a hard on for Palin.
and Gary Johnson.

[Elwar]

and Gary Johnson.

He supports a rift between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson supporters...

kinda like someone else around here..

[klamath]

He supports a rift between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson supporters...

kinda like someone else around here..
You don't get to vote for two presidents. Why is every other potential opponent of RP is savaged if they are brought up? It is so they don't get converts from RP's base. GJ is running in direct opposition to RP.
and some people are supporting GJ around here slyly trying to syphon off votes from RP selling us a line that it will help RP.

[klamath]

Why would Ron Paul's base need to be defended if Johnson is so bad on these issues? Wouldn't these issues be cutting into the base of the neo-cons? Of which can then be enlightened on the ideas of liberty?

How do you plan on syphoning off a few huck, palin and romney voters?

By letting the RP base know GJ is no RP as some on here are try to sell him as.

[erowe1]

You don't get to vote for two presidents. Why is every other potential opponent of RP is savaged if they are brought up? It is so they don't get converts from RP's base. GJ is running in direct opposition to RP.

So we run against him. We do what we can to make sure people support RP and not GJ with their votes, donations, and campaign efforts. But we don't burn any bridges while we're doing it.

[klamath]

Jesus, i can't believe some folks.

Gary Johnson = GOP lite ?? are you kidding me??????

Rand Paul wouldn't say half the shit Gary says and yet he gets a free pass because his last name is Paul.
No GJ is neocon light. Fighting humanitarian wars is a solid plank out of neoconservatism.

[klamath]

So we run against him. We do what we can to make sure people support RP and not GJ with their votes, donations, and campaign efforts. But we don't burn any bridges while we're doing it.
And that is exactly what I am doing. GJ calling RP an obstructionist is burning bridges from GJ side. GJ people coming on stating that RP doesn't own this site, RP is too old RP is a racist IS burning bridges.

[erowe1]

And that is exactly what I am doing. GJ calling RP an obstructionist is burning bridges from GJ side. GJ people coming on stating that RP doesn't own this site, RP is too old RP is a racist IS burning bridges.

RP IS an obstructionist. He's Dr. No. That's one of the best things about him. So GJ wants to take a more moderate approach in hopes to broaden his appeal and set himself apart from RP. I'm fine with that. RP has certainly been called worse things by the other candidates and their surrogates.

When you look at that quote from GJ, and the fact that he's not as much against the drug war as RP is (but more against it than all the other candidates are), and not as much against humanitarian wars as RP is (but more against them than all the others are), and not as much against taxes as RP is (but more against them than the others are), you see him as neocon-lite. I look at the same things and see him as RP-lite. I think we need more RP-lites.

[Elwar]

and some people are supporting GJ around here slyly trying to syphon off votes from RP selling us a line that it will help RP.

Please point to the instances of people supporting GJ around here trying to syphon votes from RP.

If I go to a voting booth and Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are on my ballot. I will certainly be punching Ron Paul's name.

But I would rather have at least one of them on my ballot.

[klamath]

Please point to the instances of people supporting GJ around here trying to syphon votes from RP.

If I go to a voting booth and Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are on my ballot. I will certainly be punching Ron Paul's name.

But I would rather have at least one of them on my ballot.

Explain to me why people post everything GJ does on this site. The people on here are RP supporters. The attempt is to syphon off the "RP Light supporters" no other reason. If they were posting it on a general republican site it is to expand the base, posting it here is to steal RP's base.

[klamath]

RP IS an obstructionist. He's Dr. No. That's one of the best things about him. So GJ wants to take a more moderate approach in hopes to broaden his appeal and set himself apart from RP. I'm fine with that. RP has certainly been called worse things by the other candidates and their surrogates.

When you look at that quote from GJ, and the fact that he's not as much against the drug war as RP is (but more against it than all the other candidates are), and not as much against humanitarian wars as RP is (but more against them than all the others are), and not as much against taxes as RP is (but more against them than the others are), you see him as neocon-lite. I look at the same things and see him as RP-lite. I think we need more RP-lites.
I do to but not running against RP. I will support Jim Demint for senator but if he starts running against RP I am going to pick RP and point out all the faults of Demint.

[klamath]

Go look at the thread about Michelle Bachmann. She isn't even running but someone mentioned her name for president. She is being ripped to bloody ribons. Why are not some of you "expand the base types" not in there defending MB???

[trey4sports]

this is a revolution of ideas, not a revolution of one man. If the goal is to influence the debate and bring the GOP back to its roots then having GJ up on stage alongside Ron Paul will be much more beneficial to our movement than just having Ron Paul.

[trey4sports]

Go look at the thread about Michelle Bachmann. She isn't even running but someone mentioned her name for president. She is being ripped to bloody ribons. Why are not some of you "expand the base types" not in there defending MB???

because Bachmann is worthless

[klamath]

because Bachmann is worthless
GJ in my opinion is just as worthless as Bachmann.

[Imperial]

GJ in my opinion is just as worthless as Bachmann.

Somebody who agrees with us on 85% of the issues is the same as Bachmann, who only really agrees on economics?

Look to the longterm. Ron Paul will not be in politics forever. As of now, we really only have Rand who is also prominent on the national stage. That is a lot of eggs in one basket. However, Gary Johnson participating in the debates and seeing what support he could gather initially would be a great way to build a candidate with another national profile.

[trey4sports]

GJ in my opinion is just as worthless as Bachmann.

Really?

supports ending both major wars
stated we should end the fed at RFTR
believes in marijuana legalization (and supports reforming the war on drugs) mind you, Rand hasn't taken a stance even close to this
vetoed more bills during his tenure in office than all other governors combined.....


I know he's no Ron Paul, but can you honestly say he is Bachmann?

[trey4sports]

Somebody who agrees with us on 85% of the issues is the same as Bachmann, who only really agrees on economics?


+1 my point exactly

[HazyHusky420]

If Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo (both vile and disgusting authoritarian war mongers) supporters could have orgies together like they did last election then why can't Johnson and Paul supporters get along? I mean Hunter and Tancredo represent hate and fear. I though Paul and Johnson represented liberty.

[HazyHusky420]

+1 my point exactly

How can one agree with Paul on economics and be an interventionist? Does anyone remember how much our foreign policy costs?

[klamath]

Somebody who agrees with us on 85% of the issues is the same as Bachmann, who only really agrees on economics?

Look to the longterm. Ron Paul will not be in politics forever. As of now, we really only have Rand who is also prominent on the national stage. That is a lot of eggs in one basket. However, Gary Johnson participating in the debates and seeing what support he could gather initially would be a great way to build a candidate with another national profile.
MB votes with RP 70% to 80% of the time. Enough so RP endorsed and sent money to her.

[HazyHusky420]

MB votes with RP 70% to 80% of the time. Enough so RP endorsed and sent money to her.

Now my support for Paul is withering away.

[trey4sports]

How can one agree with Paul on economics and be an interventionist? Does anyone remember how much our foreign policy costs?


Then you must concede that Rand is also an interventionist......

Gary Supports withdrawl from both major wars. He commented that if there was a genocide then the USA should get involved. While I don't agree with him on that, how much money does genocide intervention cost us? The vast bulk of our defense budget is from the major wars.

So, i guess you could say Gary supports intervention but at such a low level it really isn't something I'm too concerned about.


To put it in perspective, we spend roughly 800 billion a year with our foreign policy, how much do you think it would cost to intervene to prevent genocide.... 30 billion? I don't know, but lets put things in perspective

[HazyHusky420]

If Paul is going to be that friendly to Bachmann then i'm going for Johnson.

[HazyHusky420]

Then you must concede that Rand is also an interventionist......

Gary Supports withdrawl from both major wars. He commented that if there was a genocide then the USA should get involved. While I don't agree with him on that, how much money does genocide intervention cost us? The vast bulk of our defense budget is from the major wars.

So, i guess you could say Gary supports intervention but at such a low level it really isn't something I'm too concerned about.


To put it in perspective, we spend roughly 800 billion a year with our foreign policy, how much do you think it would cost to intervene to prevent genocide.... 30 billion? I don't know, but lets put things in perspective

That's it. I'm learning German and moving to Switzerland.

[trey4sports]

That's it. I'm learning German and moving to Switzerland.

lol, i usually only see that level of cynicism with seasoned vets from the board

[HazyHusky420]

lol, i usually only see that level of cynicism with seasoned vets from the board

No but i'm a seasoned libertarian.

Fuck this i'm moving to France. Go Saddam nuke America. - Bill Hicks <<<< Exactly how I feel

[RonPaulFanInGA]

both vile and disgusting authoritarian war mongers


Now my support for Paul is withering away.


If Paul is going to be that friendly to Bachmann then i'm going for Johnson.


Justin Raimondo was pretty accurate when he wrote about him.

(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?274722-Mark-Levin-says-he-is-glad-Rand-Paul-won&p=3052327&viewfull=1#post3052327)

I can't tell: is this poster's schtick supposed to be well-disguised satire?

[klamath]

Really?

supports ending both major wars
stated we should end the fed at RFTR
believes in marijuana legalization (and supports reforming the war on drugs) mind you, Rand hasn't taken a stance even close to this
vetoed more bills during his tenure in office than all other governors combined.....


I know he's no Ron Paul, but can you honestly say he is Bachmann?
GJ
Supports the million casualty war of abortion.
Supports fighting Israels wars.
supports sending US troops to humanitarian wars.
Cheated on his wife.
Is a serious stoner.

MB
Supports RP on the fed.
belongs to RP's liberty caucus
In the last freedom index voted with RP 88% of the time.

[HazyHusky420]

I can't tell: is this poster's schtick supposed to be well-disguised satire?

How is strict adherence to principle satire?

[klamath]

Then you must concede that Rand is also an interventionist......

Gary Supports withdrawl from both major wars. He commented that if there was a genocide then the USA should get involved. While I don't agree with him on that, how much money does genocide intervention cost us? The vast bulk of our defense budget is from the major wars.

So, i guess you could say Gary supports intervention but at such a low level it really isn't something I'm too concerned about.


To put it in perspective, we spend roughly 800 billion a year with our foreign policy, how much do you think it would cost to intervene to prevent genocide.... 30 billion? I don't know, but lets put things in perspective
I don't know about you but I was in Clinton's humanitarian war in Bosnia. I was also in Bush's humanitarian war in Iraq. Sadamn was doing some serious killing, there is no doubt about that.

[HazyHusky420]

You want satire check out "TerrorWarrior500" on YouTube. If I were being satrical I would be talking about my bunker full of freeze dried food, computers running open source software, heavy artillery and confederate flag decorations

italicized for satire

[trey4sports]

GJ
Supports the million casualty war of abortion.
Supports fighting Israels wars.
supports sending US troops to humanitarian wars.
Cheated on his wife.
Is a serious stoner.

MB
Supports RP on the fed.
belongs to RP's liberty caucus
In the last freedom index voted with RP 88% of the time.



How convenient, you fail to mention Bachmann's stance on war. Of course Gary supports Ron on the Fed, and just look at how many bills he vetoed

[HazyHusky420]

I don't know about you but I was in Clinton humanitarian war in Bosnia. I was also in Bush's humanitarian war in Iraq. Sadamn was doing some serious killing, there is no doubt about that.

No one said Saddam was good. However we can't be the word's policemen.

[low preference guy]

That's it. I'm learning German and moving to Switzerland.

what about moving to another forum? that would be even better.

[klamath]

I can't tell: is this poster's schtick supposed to be well-disguised satire?
He has been a troll from the get go. He is an anarchist and his first post called libertarians fascistic.

[klamath]

How convenient, you fail to mention Bachmann's stance on war. Of course Gary supports Ron on the Fed, and just look at how many bills he vetoed
No my point is they are about the same. You tried to hype all of MB bad points and I hyped up GJ's bad points. MB isn't running against RP is the key difference.

[HazyHusky420]

Response to klamath

Supports the million casualty war of abortion. - He merely takes the classical anti-authority approach to abortion. You know that was a part of the original Libertar Party platform right? I don't want to argue over abortion because i'm indifferent to it, i'm just clarifying his position.

Supports fighting Israels wars. - Source please?

Cheated on his wife. - So? That's his problem.

Is a serious stoner. - So am I. It's not like marijuana is anywhere near as harmful as alcohol or McDonalds.

[HazyHusky420]

He has been a troll from the get go. He is an anarchist and his first post called libertarians fascistic.

???

Like there aren't other anarchists here? When did I call libertarians fascists? I happen to be one. I said i've ran into minarchists who claimed to libertarians yet ACTED like fascists because i'm anti-military and anti-border.

[trey4sports]

No my point is they are about the same. You tried to hype all of MB bad points and I hyped up GJ's bad points. MB isn't running against RP is the key difference.

We need more than one person to present the message

[HazyHusky420]

what about moving to another forum? that would be even better.

Uhhh have we met? That was an initial reaction. I'm extremely anti-interventionist. Any sign of interventionism makes me react like a rabid dog.

[klamath]

Response to klamath

Supports the million casualty war of abortion. - He merely takes the classical anti-authority approach to abortion. You know that was a part of the original Libertar Party platform right? I don't want to argue over abortion because i'm indifferent to it, i'm just clarifying his position.

Supports fighting Israels wars. - Source please?

Cheated on his wife. - So? That's his problem.

Is a serious stoner. - So am I. It's not like marijuana is anywhere near as harmful as alcohol or McDonalds.

Explains a lot.

[trey4sports]

seriously, can we not have some constructive debate w/o everyone telling husky to move to a different forum?

[trey4sports]

Explains a lot.

Seriously?

[HazyHusky420]

Explains a lot.

What does it explain? My anarcho-capitalism? I highly doubt Murray Rothbard was a stoner and he was an anarcho-capitalist.

[klamath]

We need more than one person to present the message
So back to Bachmann, let's get her to run. She could bring people in that GJ can't :rolleyes:

[HazyHusky420]

seriously, can we not have some constructive debate w/o everyone telling husky to move to a different forum?

Thank. I'm surprised all of this would erupt from me being strictly anti-interventionism.

[trey4sports]

So back to Bachmann, let's get her to run. She could bring people in that GJ can't :rolleyes:

Gary agrees with Ron on every single issue that Michelle agrees with Ron on, yet he goes the extra mile and supports him on issues Bachmann wouldn't dare touch...

[gls]

I just don't see how Gary could possibly garner the sort of name-recognition necessary to make him a viable candidate. He certainly wouldn't get much help from the corporate media, and having been out of office for eight years won't exactly make him appear particularly relevant to the current political scene.

[klamath]

Gary agrees with Ron on every single issue that Michelle agrees with Ron on, yet he goes the extra mile and supports him on issues Bachmann wouldn't dare touch...
And GJ disagrees with RP on some major major issues. What GJ shows with his defend Israel with US troops and humanitarian wars is an extreme ignorance of foriegn policy and especially the middle eastern foreign policy. What he says against the current wars is very shallow as he is not even seeing the cause and effect of our current involvement in the middle east. If GJ were ever to be elected his conflicting views would very likely get us involved in certain areas and not involved in more critical areas. He could get us involved in REAL serious wars, blundering about with his conflicting views.

[trey4sports]

And GJ disagrees with RP on some major major issues. What GJ shows with his defend Israel with US troops and humanitarian wars is an extreme ignorance of foriegn policy and especially the middle eastern foreign policy. What he says against the current wars is very shallow as he is not even seeing the cause and effect of our current involvement in the middle east. If GJ were ever to be elected his conflicting views would very likely get us involved in certain areas and not involved in more critical areas. He could get us involved in REAL serious wars, blundering about with his conflicting views.

So does Bachmann only to a much larger extent!!!!

[klamath]

So does Bachmann only to a much larger extent!!!! And I am NOT promoting her and encouraging her to run for president!!!!! If she decides to run against RP, I will be quite fair in showing how she is not the proper person to be president. I would be all over supporting a GJ run for senate because he WOULD be a step up from what NM has now.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

h XXp://race42012.com/2010/12/19/gary-johnson-gets-serious/


It would surprise me if Gary Johnson expects to place within the top three in Iowa, as the state’s electorate doesn’t figure to take to his libertarian leanings. New Hampshire, however, is another story…

On the downside, a new obstacle for Johnson arose this past week, with Ron Paul stating that he might run in 2012. With both in the race, they would largely have to compete for the same voters. For candidates who thought they’d least have to worry about keeping their natural constituencies in their corner, that presents grave problems.

Of course, Paul could opt against a run if Johnson formally announces a campaign.

At best: Gary Johnson will hurt Ron Paul in the primary. At worst: Johnson's candidacy will dissuade Paul from running all-together. Hoo...ray?

[Bergie Bergeron]

They probably talked with each other before.

[SilentBull]

The people who hate Gary Johnson for his comments on Israel and the wars, have to realize that even Rand had to adjust his message when running. Many supporters were angry at Rand, and look at him now. He's working on making military cuts acceptable to republicans. Once someone popular like Rand starts coming out and doing this, other republicans will no longer be afraid to advocate for such things. Do you guys not understand strategy?? Do you not understand that to win, you cannot come out and say everything you believe?? You have to be careful what you say, and once you are in a position to change things, you can gradually convince others that it is ok to believe what you believe and still be a republican.

[pacelli]

All the RP supporters had better start paying attention to this sneaky coop of RP's chances and stand up for the man that fought 30 lonely years to build a base.

This isn't the only sneaky coop. Look at the flippin' Tea Party movement. Whose supporters started that, and who gets the credit? More importantly, look at the reasons we started that movement, and look at the disgrace that the establishment has morphed it into. Only because of Rand do we have any remaining association there.

[klamath]

The people who hate Gary Johnson for his comments on Israel and the wars, have to realize that even Rand had to adjust his message when running. Many supporters were angry at Rand, and look at him now. He's working on making military cuts acceptable to republicans. Once someone popular like Rand starts coming out and doing this, other republicans will no longer be afraid to advocate for such things. Do you guys not understand strategy?? Do you not understand that to win, you cannot come out and say everything you believe?? You have to be careful what you say, and once you are in a position to change things, you can gradually convince others that it is ok to believe what you believe and still be a republican.
Has Rand ever said he would use US troops to defend Israel? Has Rand ever said we should send troops to fight humanitarian wars? When you cross the line from defending war that you believe is defending America to defending war for the good of another country you are squarely in NEOCON philosophy. That IS what defines a Neocon. A neocon is someone that believes we should use American power to do good around the world. I Know that neocons are savaged as the devils incarnate around here but that is exactly what they believe. They are making the world a better place with American power and troops if necessary.

[Wren]

The people who hate Gary Johnson for his comments on Israel and the wars, have to realize that even Rand had to adjust his message when running. Many supporters were angry at Rand, and look at him now. He's working on making military cuts acceptable to republicans. Once someone popular like Rand starts coming out and doing this, other republicans will no longer be afraid to advocate for such things. Do you guys not understand strategy?? Do you not understand that to win, you cannot come out and say everything you believe?? You have to be careful what you say, and once you are in a position to change things, you can gradually convince others that it is ok to believe what you believe and still be a republican.

The senate and the presidency are two entirely different things. We can afford to be a little lenient on senate candidates, but when it comes to the presidency, Ron Paul is the only person I'd ever vote and help campaign for.

[SilentBull]

The senate and the presidency are two entirely different things. We can afford to be a little lenient on senate candidates, but when it comes to the presidency, Ron Paul is the only person I'd ever vote and help campaign for.

Ok then. So we will win senate seats but never the presidency. Good plan.

And I don't mean to say Ron Paul can't win. I think he can. I mean that we have to understand that libertarians will have to change their message a bit sometimes. That's all.

[Nena]

I really don't think Gary Johnson is trying to take away anyone's limelight. I think it's still unclear whether or not Ron will run and GJ just wanted to make sure there was someone like him on the ballot. I've been to caucuses, spoken with primary voters... (OMG I just said "I" four times, I must be an egomaniac.)

Seriously though, Republican primary voters probably aren't going to vote for someone questionably pro-choice. If Gary get's close, the other candidates will be talking about abortion in every piece of mail they send out and in every public appearance they make. So many pro-lifers are single-issue voters. Even apart from that issue, I don't know many people who would support Gary over Ron if they both ran a real campaign. Until there is a GaryJohnsonForums.com, no one ought to worry. :cool:

[enjoiskaterguy]

I agree. Quite frankly, the liberty movement needs to triple its efforts under a single candidate in 2012. When there's competition like this, the vote is split and both are marginalized.

YES...this is key..I totaly agree.