Who are you're favorite non-libertarian thinkers?

[mtj458]

Austrian economist Steve Horwitz wrote a while back:

"The next time you're engaged in a political discussion with someone who has very strong views different from your own, ask them if they can name two famous thinkers or politicians whose politics are opposed to theirs who they also think are very smart and genuinely concerned with making the world a better place. If they can't, it's not clear they are able to grant the good faith such discussions should have."

I think most people would agree that exposing yourself to only one set of ideas is not the best way to go about learning, but it's also generally what I've done. I can't remember the last time I read a non-fiction book that wasn't at least libertarian leaning. And that's not because I don't care about other viewpoints, I just find myself less interested in them. Unfortunately, I can't really answer this question honestly because I've only read what are probably biased summaries of non-libertarian thinkers rather than their actual works.

So who are you're two opposing thinkers and what works of theirs do you recommend? Try to stay away from politicians and media personalities unless they've done some serious work outside of those arenas.

Edit: And just to be clear, I don't mean a leftist who is genuinely anti-war or a right winger with genuine free market leanings. I mean someone who disagrees with you on the actual subject.

[Travlyr]

For me, the issues are clearly defined. It is either true or false. It is either honest or dishonest. One is either a capitalist or a socialist. One embraces either liberty or tyranny.

Here are two works of those with whom I'm opposed philosophically.


Edward Mandell House's Philip Dru: Administrator (http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Dru/)
Ellen Brown's The Web of Debt (http://www.webofdebt.com/)

[Bergie Bergeron]

Snooki.

[Kludge]

Well. That's a narrow-minded approach to judging credibility - but I will submit -- Irving Kristol & Ayn Rand.

[Golding]

Linus Pauling is someone who came to conclusions I didn't always agree with, but I have a great deal of respect for his intuition.

[JasonC]

Well. That's a narrow-minded approach to judging credibility - but I will submit -- Irving Kristol & Ayn Rand.

Very good choices. I immediately thought of Ayn Rand. Hmm..... how about...Chomsky....Ben Bernanke....Howard Zinn...

Edit: Oh, and the anarcho-fascist Kludge.

[Imperial]

Ben Bernanke
Niall Ferguson

[mtj458]

Surprised to see multiple people say Bernanke, but I agree. We have a lot of disagreements but he is a very intelligent guy and I think his performance in the Fed has pretty much followed what he recommended in his academic papers beforehand.

[qh4dotcom]

Surprised to see multiple people say Bernanke, but I agree. We have a lot of disagreements but he is a very intelligent guy and I think his performance in the Fed has pretty much followed what he recommended in his academic papers beforehand.

If he was that intelligent the country wouldn't be in the economic mess that it is in.

[Sola_Fide]

David Hume and Bertrand Russell.

[StilesBC]

The Behavioural Finance guys: Thaler, Kahneman, Tversky.

Bill Black, Randall Wray and a number of other economists who cite fraud and regulatory capture as two of our biggest problems.

Michael Hudson, Steve Keen and other "Shumpetarians."

I find I can generally agree with the above 80-90% of the time on analyzing our problems. It's their solutions which I find impractical and undesirable.

[Imperial]

David Hume and Bertrand Russell.

Damn good choices as well. I felt that Hume's essay on miracles was great, even if I don't think it applied its standard to its logical procession.

[BamaAla]

Hegel and Marx.

Edit: Sorry, I jumped the gun and didn't suggest a work. For Marx, obviously, "Das Kapital," but "Wage-Labor and Capital" is a must read also. For Hegel, "Encyclopedia of the Philosophic Sciences" and "Elements of the Philosophy of Right."

http://www.amazon.com/Das-Kapital-Karl-Marx/dp/1934568430/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293792250&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Wage-labor-capital-Karl-Marx/dp/1176274171/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293792280&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Philosophical-Sciences-Critical-Writings/dp/0826403409/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293792320&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Hegel-Elements-Philosophy-Cambridge-Political/dp/0521348889

[Koz]

Although I do agree that the Ben Bernanke wants the economy to rebound, I really do not think he is that intelligent if he cannot see the flaws in his policies.

[Elwar]

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are entertaining non-libertarians.

[trey4sports]

Bernanke and Obama both are incredibly intelligent. There's no doubt that their smart the problem is that their world view and belief about the role of gov't is completely opposed what we believe. You can be intelligent and still disagree with someones views

[james1906]

George Carlin, when you think about it, was a great modern philosopher. Stand ups who challenge their audience mentally are a dying breed.

[libertarian4321]

Paris Hilton.

[Brett85]

Charles Krauthammer. I don't agree at all with his internationalist foreign policy views, but I don't think anybody can deny that he's extremely intelligent.

[outspoken]

George Carlin, when you think about it, was a great modern philosopher. Stand ups who challenge their audience mentally are a dying breed.

I like Bill Hicks... unfortunately, he died young as all good ones do!

[Liberty_Mike]

Ralph Nader is number one without even thinking about it.
#2, I would have to think about that for a minute.

[mtj458]

Nassim Taleb is generally a libertarian but he does argue for some financial regulation of specific types of derivatives trading that I've found pretty convincing. The argument is basically that nobody understands them or there danger. Not having any in depth clue what they are, I can't say for sure that he's wrong.

I'm not sure who originated this argument, but there's also a lot of psychological evidence suggesting that people care more about relative wealth than absolute wealth, which I think puts into question a lot of utilitarian libertarian arguments.

[amy31416]

Lessee here--Richard Feynman, Tolstoy (though he is a self-described Christian anarchist), Mark Twain, Mencken, Alan Bloom...just off the top of my head.

[libertybrewcity]

who are your* favorite non-libertarian thinkers?

[Koz]

Bernanke and Obama both are incredibly intelligent. There's no doubt that their smart the problem is that their world view and belief about the role of gov't is completely opposed what we believe. You can be intelligent and still disagree with someones views

I fail to see how you are intelligent if you cannot learn from history that your policies do not work. Seems pretty simple to me.