Gun toting citizen comes to aid of Marine and his wife being beat in parking lot.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm guessing a CCW holder.

Not too many details here...



Marine, wife attacked by teens after showing of "Little Fockers"

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-marine-attacked-teens-little-focke20101228,0,1968167.story

MANATEE, Fla. (AP) — A group of unruly teenagers attacked a 27-year-old Marine and his wife who had asked them to be quiet during a Christmas night showing of "Little Fockers."

The attack happened as the couple left the theater near Bradenton Saturday night. Authorities say the fight attracted about 300 bystanders.

Federico Freire, home on leave from Afghanistan, says they left the theater shortly after the teens were asked to leave.

The couple was kicked and punched in the parking lot before a gun-brandishing witness told the crowd to step back just before deputies arrived.

Five teens were arrested, including a 17-year-old who struck a deputy and was stunned by a Taser.

The fracas caused the theater manager to close early.

[BamaAla]

Need more details. The time line doesn't look good for the Marine.

As for the CCW citizen, I don't think I would have done the same. Hopefully everything works out the right way though.

[Kregisen]

I'm bamboozled by why you would need someone with a gun to stop 5 teenagers when there's 300 bystanders.....

[Vessol]

I'm bamboozled by why you would need someone with a gun to stop 5 teenagers when there's 300 bystanders.....

I'm sure they were all too busy getting their camera's out.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump

[coastie]

I'm bamboozled by why you would need someone with a gun to stop 5 teenagers when there's 300 bystanders.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Tough call, need more info tho.

[Anti Federalist]

Tough call, need more info tho.

I'll go out on limb here and guess that the press is being deliberately vague on this one, due to possible racial aspects of the incident.

[specsaregood]

I'll go out on limb here and guess that the press is being deliberately vague on this one, due to possible racial aspects of the incident.

Yeah, quite the limb you got out on there. /s

[coastie]

Yeah, quite the limb you got out on there. /s

haha, yeah.

I would've done the same, that's 5 against 1(basically). If the Marine had been CCW in the first place, the headline should have read "Five Teens Seriously Wounded After Attacking a CCWing Marine out with Wife". That would of been full of win, and how it should be.;)

[hazek]

I'm bamboozled by why you would need someone with a gun to stop 5 teenagers when there's 300 bystanders.....

If I was a bystander I probably wouldn't get involved without a weapon. You never know what those 5 could be carrying in their pockets and even if there were 300 people there, what are they going to do if just one of those 5 pulls out a weapon, beat him unconscious before he kills them all?

IMO the CCW guy the only person who could do anything.

[agitator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Tough call, need more info tho.

More details: http://conservativenation.net/

[Pericles]

haha, yeah.

I would've done the same, that's 5 against 1(basically). If the Marine had been CCW in the first place, the headline should have read "Five Teens Seriously Wounded After Attacking a CCWing Marine out with Wife". That would of been full of win, and how it should be.;)

That ^^^^^ right there.

[coastie]

If I was a bystander I probably wouldn't get involved without a weapon. You never know what those 5 could be carrying in their pockets and even if there were 300 people there, what are they going to do if just one of those 5 pulls out a weapon, beat him unconscious before he kills them all?

IMO the CCW guy the only person who could do anything.

I probably would've-carrying or not. But I'm just like that, I HATE bullying or ganging up on people with a passion, can handle myself, and......

...... I always carry, every time I leave the house, even taking the trash out, mowing the lawn, etc. Hey, you never know.;)

[Pericles]

I probably would've-carrying or not. But I'm just like that, I HATE bullying or ganging up on people with a passion, can handle myself, and......

...... I always carry, every time I leave the house, even taking the trash out, mowing the lawn, etc. Hey, you never know.;)
You never need a weapon until you need one badly.

[coastie]

Well, wait now....holy shit, 60 people:eek:. I dunno, I'd pull mine, force the crowd into a "horseshoe" shape, and then start retreating back. Drop the first 2-3 morons that tried to get cute, the rest will take off, hopefully. If not, there's at least 9 rounds of .45 left in the pistol now, and another 13 in the ready. I promise you the members of that particular group would never pull that shit again.;)

[crazyfacedjenkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDGvG6VlPb4&feature=related

[crazyfacedjenkins]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/30/family-marine-attacked-florida-teenagers-seeks-action-drug-overdose/

Attack on Marine at Florida Theater Comes Months After Brother's Death at Navy Hospital

The recent attack on a Marine and his wife outside a Florida movie theater is the latest indignity suffered by a family still reeling over the accidental death this year of a brother at a U.S. naval hospital.

[Anti Federalist]

You never need a weapon until you need one badly.

And nothing will substitute.

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/30/family-marine-attacked-florida-teenagers-seeks-action-drug-overdose/

Attack on Marine at Florida Theater Comes Months After Brother's Death at Navy Hospital

The recent attack on a Marine and his wife outside a Florida movie theater is the latest indignity suffered by a family still reeling over the accidental death this year of a brother at a U.S. naval hospital.

Jesus Christ.

I'm at a loss for words...really...

[Anti Federalist]

"It's like, what the hell am I fighting for??!!"

No shit Marine, no shit...Boy, I'd like to have five minutes of that man's undivided attention.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDGvG6VlPb4&feature=related

[Anti Federalist]

Important lesson to be learned here.

The riots in Greece and Spain over government "austerity" measures will look like a mild fracas compared compared to the unglued insanity that will take place here once the government cheese runs out.

Be prepared.

[youngbuck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDGvG6VlPb4&feature=related

At the end of this video, the reporter actually credits the armed citizen for preventing further escalation. That's very rare.

[hazek]

Important lesson to be learned here.

The riots in Greece and Spain over government "austerity" measures will look like a mild fracas compared compared to the unglued insanity that will take place here once the government cheese runs out.

Be prepared.

Yep I agree.

[Pericles]

Important lesson to be learned here.

The riots in Greece and Spain over government "austerity" measures will look like a mild fracas compared compared to the unglued insanity that will take place here once the government cheese runs out.

Be prepared.

New Orleans after Katrina was just a warm up.

[osan]

I'm bamboozled by why you would need someone with a gun to stop 5 teenagers when there's 300 bystanders.....

You have obviously never lived in NYC.

[MelissaWV]

haha, yeah.

I would've done the same, that's 5 against 1(basically). If the Marine had been CCW in the first place, the headline should have read "Five Teens Seriously Wounded After Attacking a CCWing Marine out with Wife". That would of been full of win, and how it should be.;)

Oddly, the reports I've seen more recently say that at least one of the teens was injured by the Marine, and that the kids were "only" mouthing off during the movie. No mention of the guy with the gun, either.

I'm with the earlier poster. I don't really think there's much information on this other than a whole lot of drama. Movie theaters are crawling with obnoxious punks and people who generally don't know how to behave.

[BamaAla]

I would still like to see the time line. The first report made it sound like the kids were kicked out and the marine and his wife followed them. The video made it sound like the kids waited for them. If the former, it almost sounds like the guy got exactly what he was looking for. If the latter, good for the CCW guy that stopped the situation. Either way, one needs to be careful when playing hero with a gun.

[james1906]

The obligatory "the wife is hot" post.

[GunnyFreedom]

If you are a CCW and use your weapon without your assailant threatening deadly force FIRST, then you go to PMITA prison. There is a pretty extensive guideline for use of deadly force as a CCW holder, and you have a much tighter set of restrictions than even the police do.

[daviddee]

...

[james1906]

If you are a CCW and use your weapon without your assailant threatening deadly force FIRST, then you go to PMITA prison. There is a pretty extensive guideline for use of deadly force as a CCW holder, and you have a much tighter set of restrictions than even the police do.

You've got a lot to learn Mr. Smith.

[daviddee]

...

[AFPVet]

If I was a bystander I probably wouldn't get involved without a weapon. You never know what those 5 could be carrying in their pockets and even if there were 300 people there, what are they going to do if just one of those 5 pulls out a weapon, beat him unconscious before he kills them all?

IMO the CCW guy the only person who could do anything.

Exactly.

[devil21]

Video says "good samaritan, of sorts" regarding the CCW holder. The media just can't bring itself to ever completely praise someone for being armed, can they?

[GunnyFreedom]

Not in Florida.

The rules are pretty simple:

You have the right to use deadly force to protect your home, property, and to protect another human.

The other human one merely states: "If you were in the persons shoes"

So, this CCW could have killed all 5. Where it gets tricky is bystanders and the victim... If you accidentally kill a bystander, or the person being attacked, you are going to have problems.

Lastly, this clearly was a hate crime committed by 5 black youths on a white male. Aside from the state/local assault and battery there should be a Federal hate crime case investigated. I am sure "I am going to hit you upside the face white girl" "How you like that white boy" where stated at some point... witness testimony would be interesting.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

That's right, ours reads the same way, but "protection" doesn't count unless the assailant has a weapon of some sort (unless they are in your home). You have to actually believe that you are under threat of severe bodily harm or death, and 'fists' don't count. It could be 5 people or 500 people attacking, it won't matter. If you shoot somebody who turns out to not have a weapon on them, then you go to PMITA prison. The Florida statute you cite reads even more restrictive than NC. It all comes down to "do you believe you were in danger of death, serious bodily harm, or rape" and the vast vast majority of judges, prosecutors and jurors (drinking the judge's kool-aid) will conclude that 'no weapon - no serious threat.'

ETA:

Quoting from yhe link you provided:

"The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary."

This is the exact same as the NC statutes which routinely lead to people who honestly believe they are going to die, to get sent to prison because the person they shot didn't have a weapon, and therefore it is decided that they could not have reasonably believed that they were in danger.

I'm not defending it -- I hate it as much as anybody here, but that is where we are right now in society. If that good Samaritan CCW holder had actually fired his weapon and the person shot didn't have a weapon, he'd be on his way to decades or life in prison right now.

[coastie]

That's right, ours reads the same way, but "protection" doesn't count unless the assailant has a weapon of some sort (unless they are in your home). You have to actually believe that you are under threat of severe bodily harm or death, and 'fists' don't count. It could be 5 people or 500 people attacking, it won't matter. If you shoot somebody who turns out to not have a weapon on them, then you go to PMITA prison. The Florida statute you cite reads even more restrictive than NC. It all comes down to "do you believe you were in danger of death, serious bodily harm, or rape" and the vast vast majority of judges, prosecutors and jurors (drinking the judge's kool-aid) will conclude that 'no weapon - no serious threat.'

ETA:

Quoting from yhe link you provided:

"The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary."

This is the exact same as the NC statutes which routinely lead to people who honestly believe they are going to die, to get sent to prison because the person they shot didn't have a weapon, and therefore it is decided that they could not have reasonably believed that they were in danger.

I'm not defending it -- I hate it as much as anybody here, but that is where we are right now in society. If that good Samaritan CCW holder had actually fired his weapon and the person shot didn't have a weapon, he'd be on his way to decades or life in prison right now.

"Based on the totality of the circumstances here, I'd say hed have a more than good chance of getting off. With that amount of people, "reasonable" has more than been met."- PCBPD officer, my best friend from high school. We're in Florida, BTW.;)

[GunnyFreedom]

"Based on the totality of the circumstances here, I'd say hed have a more than good chance of getting off. With that amount of people, "reasonable" has more than been met."- PCBPD officer, my best friend from high school. We're in Florida, BTW.;)

Maybe, but the point here is that it's just a 'maybe' rather than an 'absolutely.' It shouldn't be up to the whims of some random District Attorney or Judge, IMHO. The way I see it, any physical attack whatsoever should open the path for force escalation. When the law leaves it up to the whim of the Justice Department, that's just begging for injustice, IMHO.

[AFPVet]

You have to actually believe that you are under threat of severe bodily harm or death

This is also true in my state.


'fists' don't count.


Actually, fists can count. It is called disparity of force. If you believe that the attacker or attackers can deal serious bodily injury to you or another person by disparity of force [five against one], you are justified in using deadly force. For example, five 16 or 17 year old's—each weighing 150-160 pounds—can easily cause grave injury to another person.

[Brian4Liberty]

Important lesson to be learned here.

The riots in Greece and Spain over government "austerity" measures will look like a mild fracas compared compared to the unglued insanity that will take place here once the government cheese runs out.

Be prepared.

Prepared? For house to house searches to disarm us? By returning troops with a lot of practice at warrantless searches and home demolition?

[Kregisen]

You are clearly not from an "urban" area with the usual demographics of urban America.

You need to read between the lines of stories like these.

Fill in the blanks as to who runs in packs and who, in groups of 300, would find enjoyment at watching the packs fight... Who can not STFU in movie theaters?

Note: The lovely "Destiny McNeil" in the video from the newscast should be a clue. One can connect the dots.

No, I definitely am from a very urban area. I understand the tragedy of the commons, but if there's really 300 people, and this was 5-20 teenagers kicking the shit out of a couple, then yes I would expect more than one person to do something.

[BamaAla]

Many of our state laws read like that; however, those laws aren't interpreted by people like us; they are interpreted by over zealous attorneys. You kill one of those 5 kids and you would be arrested and probably charged. Then you have the prospect of either cutting a deal that is going to make you a felon or going on to face a jury of people that may or may not save your life.

Plus, more times than not, when you happen upon an event like this you have no idea what is going on. 5 kids could have just stopped this guy from raping that girl for all you know. It's admirable to help your fellow man, but the best bet is usually to leave your weapon concealed unless you need it to protect yourself or your family.

[Marenco]

Barbarians.

[coastie]

Maybe, but the point here is that it's just a 'maybe' rather than an 'absolutely.' It shouldn't be up to the whims of some random District Attorney or Judge, IMHO. The way I see it, any physical attack whatsoever should open the path for force escalation. When the law leaves it up to the whim of the Justice Department, that's just begging for injustice, IMHO.

Fair enough...I do come from the town of the stupidest purse swinging chick around. That purse got like 18g's on ebay, BTW>:rolleyes::eek:

That notwithstanding-If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to handle business. Better to be judged by 8 than carried by 6;)

[Zap!]

A 27 year old Marine can't handle himself against five 17 year olds? Were they armed with knives or anything?

[daviddee]

...

[Zap!]

Difficult to defend yourself against a pack of 5 dogs... unless you are experienced.

All the Hollywood movies aside, it is difficult to defend against two or three motivated people... Let alone 5. They can make numerous mistakes, but you can not make any.

If if you are "dancing", at some point you have to focus on one person. Once you focus on one, the others have you on the ground it is all over. Especially, if he was trying to walk away with his wife. Once he turns his back... they go for the knees. Once on the ground, it is all over.

I understand he's probably just a regular Marine, and not an ultra elite Navy Seal Team 6 member, but these aren't really grown men, but 17 year olds. Maybe it's different today, but when I was 17, I was 130 pounds and would not have been a match with four of my friends for a better than average fighter who was 27.

He may not need to beat all 5. Knock out two and three may run at that age. Unless they are from an area where they fight all the time.

[GunnyFreedom]

I understand he's probably just a regular Marine, and not an ultra elite Navy Seal Team 6 member, but these aren't really grown men, but 17 year olds. Maybe it's different today, but when I was 17, I was 130 pounds and would not have been a match with four of my friends for a better than average fighter who was 27.

He may not need to beat all 5. Knock out two and three may run at that age. Unless they are from an area where they fight all the time.

Where did you grow up?

ETA - by 'where' I meant, what sort of environment, urban, suburban, rural...

I ask because I've seen all kinds of 17 year olds in an urban environment that are 200 lbs and have almost as much streetfighting experience as a UFC fighter has ring fighting. Then I've also been in rural environments where your average 17 year old is more like your description.

Also, when you have a crowd of 300 people around, who knows if you manage to take out 3 or 4 of them is the crowd of 300 might not step in angry at you not just laying back and taking your beating.

[Zap!]

Where did you grow up?

ETA - by 'where' I meant, what sort of environment, urban, suburban, rural...

I ask because I've seen all kinds of 17 year olds in an urban environment that are 200 lbs and have almost as much streetfighting experience as a UFC fighter has ring fighting. Then I've also been in rural environments where your average 17 year old is more like your description.

Also, when you have a crowd of 300 people around, who knows if you manage to take out 3 or 4 of them is the crowd of 300 might not step in angry at you not just laying back and taking your beating.

I grew up in a suburban area. Although we were personally middle class, the neighborhood was mostly upper middle class, predominately Caucasian. I was roughly 130 and I guess 5'8 (I'm 5'10 now, and like 170) at 17. My fight experience was limited to a few school fights, and maybe a couple on the block (after which, we should hands). This was 1990, and I guess i was a bit of a geek. I spent way too much time in front of my Nintendo, and when I was outside, it was usually playing baseball.

From 20-30 I extensively attended tae-kwon-do classes, and although never muscular because I didn't hit the gym, in that period I was amazingly fast and flexible. I'm a bum now, disgusted with my 38 year old body. :)

[coastie]

Where did you grow up?

ETA - by 'where' I meant, what sort of environment, urban, suburban, rural...

I ask because I've seen all kinds of 17 year olds in an urban environment that are 200 lbs and have almost as much streetfighting experience as a UFC fighter has ring fighting. Then I've also been in rural environments where your average 17 year old is more like your description.

Very true. Always pick your battles. Hell <not bragging>, when I was 18 and 165 lbs, I knocked out a 34 yr old 210lb in shape, fighter type-in one shot. #1 Rule: There is always someone bigger, stronger and meaner than you are. You just need to have the composure to become the meaner one-when it counts.;) There are no rules when you are genuinely, immediately in fear for your life.


Also, when you have a crowd of 300 people around, who knows if you manage to take out 3 or 4 of them is the crowd of 300 might not step in angry at you not just laying back and taking your beating.

:eek: I might have had nightmares at that thought...until I realized I'm in America, where the only people sticking around during a scene like that will be those silly youtoobers.The Bystander Effect pwns all ur aMerikkans:D

[Zap!]

Very true. Always pick your battles. Hell <not bragging>, when I was 18 and 165 lbs, I knocked out a 34 yr old 210lb in shape, fighter type-in one shot. #1 Rule: There is always someone bigger, stronger and meaner than you are. You just need to have the composure to become the meaner one-when it counts.;) There are no rules when you are genuinely, immediately in fear for your life.

Very true. When Mike Tyson was 20, he was heavyweight champion. And let me tell ya, there's no way in hell those five 17 year olds would have stopped 20 year old Tyson. Hell, he'd have probably taken the Marine too, all within 40 seconds. :)

[Philhelm]

Very true. When Mike Tyson was 20, he was heavyweight champion. And let me tell ya, there's no way in hell those five 17 year olds would have stopped 20 year old Tyson. Hell, he'd have probably taken the Marine too, all within 40 seconds. :)

So it would seem. However, this is real life, and not television; Aragorn can kill orcs by the hundreds, but that is not reality. Blows to the body hurt, even from those who may not be as strong as you. A five to one numerical advantage is pretty steep, and we don't know how old or how big these "kids" were. I think television has really ruined peoples' perception of physical combat and injury. Unless the kids were middle school age, I would put my money on the five to one advantage every time.

[amy31416]

So it would seem. However, this is real life, and not television; Aragorn can kill orcs by the hundreds, but that is not reality. Blows to the body hurt, even from those who may not be as strong as you. A five to one numerical advantage is pretty steep, and we don't know how old or how big these "kids" were. I think television has really ruined peoples' perception of physical combat and injury. Unless the kids were middle school age, I would put my money on the five to one advantage every time.

Not to mention that he was probably distracted by the fact that his wife might get hurt too, could have been different if it were just him.

[LibForestPaul]

So it would seem. However, this is real life, and not television; Aragorn can kill orcs by the hundreds, but that is not reality. Blows to the body hurt, even from those who may not be as strong as you. A five to one numerical advantage is pretty steep, and we don't know how old or how big these "kids" were. I think television has really ruined peoples' perception of physical combat and injury. Unless the kids were middle school age, I would put my money on the five to one advantage every time.

one kick to nut sack, and down anyone goes. with 5, pretty easy
nut sack,
throat punch,
head stomp(s),
death

[crazyfacedjenkins]

one kick to nut sack, and down anyone goes. with 5, pretty easy
nut sack,
throat punch,
head stomp(s),
death

Not really, especially if someone is wearing baggy pants.

[newbitech]

im sure it was more than 5 vs 1. I was jumped like this by a pack of "unruly teens" when I was in high school. it was more like 30 vs 3. we traded a few blows, but once we realized we were outnumbered, we put some distance between us and the mob. And we weren't trying to defend our women from men either.

[GunnyFreedom]

Not to mention that he was probably distracted by the fact that his wife might get hurt too, could have been different if it were just him.

This. It's one hell of a lot harder to worry about someone else's safety than to just go it all alone.

[Philhelm]

im sure it was more than 5 vs 1. I was jumped like this by a pack of "unruly teens" when I was in high school. it was more like 30 vs 3. we traded a few blows, but once we realized we were outnumbered, we put some distance between us and the mob. And we weren't trying to defend our women from men either.

That's another issue as well. The news report on YouTube only said that five teens were arrested, along with an adult woman who had interfered with the police. There may well have been more people involved.

[Natalie]

//

[Brian4Liberty]

I ask because I've seen all kinds of 17 year olds in an urban environment that are 200 lbs and have almost as much streetfighting experience as a UFC fighter has ring fighting.

Certainly.


So it would seem. However, this is real life, and not television; Aragorn can kill orcs by the hundreds, but that is not reality.

You mean a quick karate chop to the neck doesn't render a person instantly unconscious for an hour or more? ;)

[coastie]

Certainly.



You mean a quick karate chop to the neck doesn't render a person instantly unconscious for an hour or more? ;)

Brachial Stun, and done...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZttwJ5_Ojc

[AGRP]

It's interesting that people monday morning quarterback in situations like this.

The weapon was not fired. The outcome was good.

Lets put it this way: What would a COP had done if he/she was jumped by a group of people?

[Romulus]

Hard to say what anyone would have done.. I bet it more like 20 vs 2. I would have been tempted to fire in the air.

[Zap!]

So it would seem. However, this is real life, and not television; Aragorn can kill orcs by the hundreds, but that is not reality. Blows to the body hurt, even from those who may not be as strong as you. A five to one numerical advantage is pretty steep, and we don't know how old or how big these "kids" were. I think television has really ruined peoples' perception of physical combat and injury. Unless the kids were middle school age, I would put my money on the five to one advantage every time.

It would all depend on those five 17 year olds, I would have to see them first. Tyson was an absolute beast in the streets. Tyson '88 was lightning fast, and I doubt he would have much trouble with five teens. Five 30 year olds would be another story. Around 2004, Tyson got attacked in a hotel by two guys (he has been rude to them by not giving an autograph or something). They came right back, one with a nightstick or bat. Before he had a chance to swing, Tyson struck first and both were in the hospital.

Sure, lots of things like this are Hollywood, but a top of the line professional boxer is damn tough to take down.

[Anti Federalist]

Where's Epic Beard Man when you need him?

"Bring Amber Lamps!!!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZVGv1GBSew

[Anti Federalist]

Jokes notwithstanding, this story is why you carry a sidearm.

My big ass isn't going to be running down some 17 year old kid.

But I'm a hell of a pistol shot.

[Son of Detroit]

I understand he's probably just a regular Marine, and not an ultra elite Navy Seal Team 6 member, but these aren't really grown men, but 17 year olds. Maybe it's different today, but when I was 17, I was 130 pounds and would not have been a match with four of my friends for a better than average fighter who was 27.

He may not need to beat all 5. Knock out two and three may run at that age. Unless they are from an area where they fight all the time.

Sure is different these days. There are some 17 year olds who could pass as 30. Our two starting tackles on our football team are both 6'3/6'4 280+. Not just fat either, really well built. Kids are just overall bigger and stronger now. I'm 17 myself, and at 5'8 165 I feel like one of the smaller students in my grade.

[MelissaWV]

You are clearly not from an "urban" area with the usual demographics of urban America.

You need to read between the lines of stories like these.

Fill in the blanks as to who runs in packs and who, in groups of 300, would find enjoyment at watching the packs fight... Who can not STFU in movie theaters?

Note: The lovely "Destiny McNeil" in the video from the newscast should be a clue. One can connect the dots.

Destiny sounds like a stripper name at first blush, and not necessarily of a particular "demographic." Who cannot STFU in movie theaters? Some teens (a vocal group, to be sure, but not even all of them), some adults, and definitely children.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is. I'm hoping it isn't to cower and jab and point the finger at the tone of the teens' skin. If you're going to do that, I expect an equally silly post about the "type" of people the Marine and his wife are. :rolleyes:

[jtstellar]

one possibility was also that he tried to defend himself but didn't want to inflict any serious damage to the teens.. which could later be trouble to him.. you could go for the eyes or the nose or something but that might inflict permanent damage

[Rocco]

Its very funny to me all of the "17 year olds are kids" people in this. I am now 18, but when I was 17 I was a solid 6'2 270 football player bench pressing around 250 and squatting around 400. Not to mention 1 year of Tae Kwon Do experience and 3 years of boxing experience. I as one 17 year old "kid" have little doubt I could take your average 27 year old (though probably not a marine), let alone if I had 4 friends.

[GunnyFreedom]

Destiny sounds like a stripper name at first blush, and not necessarily of a particular "demographic." Who cannot STFU in movie theaters? Some teens (a vocal group, to be sure, but not even all of them), some adults, and definitely children.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is. I'm hoping it isn't to cower and jab and point the finger at the tone of the teens' skin. If you're going to do that, I expect an equally silly post about the "type" of people the Marine and his wife are. :rolleyes:

I agree. While it is true that the more heavily urban schools tend to produce more children street-fighters, that has everything to do with population density and not racial heritage, IMHO.

ETA - re: "Gangs of New York" for instance, was based on a true story.

[AFPVet]

Difficult to defend yourself against a pack of 5 dogs... unless you are experienced.

All the Hollywood movies aside, it is difficult to defend against two or three motivated people... Let alone 5. They can make numerous mistakes, but you can not make any.

If if you are "dancing", at some point you have to focus on one person. Once you focus on one, the others have you on the ground it is all over. Especially, if he was trying to walk away with his wife. Once he turns his back... they go for the knees. Once on the ground, it is all over.

Exactly... real life ain't the movies. You don't know what drugs the subjects may be on. Nerve manipulation and other techniques may not always work on one person let alone five. Coming from experience, those fancy moves seldom work. The only moves that do work are basic strikes to susceptible regions—which is hard enough with one person moving about. Once again, this ain't the movies—disparity of force is real.

[Anti Federalist]

From the youtube comments, and what I would be inclined to tell this Marine:


The most telling part of this Marine's statement was, "and fighting for this country". Sorry soldier, but you aren't fighting for this country. You are a tool of special interests and the mighty elite. This country is falling apart and the lives of you and your fellow soldiers will not stop that from happening. The people our military fights for don't give two squirts of piss about you, your family, or this country.

Pamzion 1 hour ago

[Inflation]

If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to handle business. Better to be judged by 8 than carried by 6
;)

I was hoping somebody would say this before I had to. Thanks!

[PreDeadMan]

http://cloud.graphicleftovers.com/12009/503106/confused-bear.jpg

The Marine should have just played dead like if a bear is coming after you and the kids would have been confused and ran away.

[sluggo]

I would also guess that this was not so much a "fight" as it was an "ambush."

[amy31416]

One of the things that's funny about a lot of men, is that they always play the "I would have done x, y or z if I were in your shoes..."

You guys wouldn't believe some of the insane stuff that men said they would have done if they'd been held up at gunpoint, as I was. It was three guys, at least two with visible guns, and I was in my car, one guy with the gun right in my face...they took my wallet, my car keys and ran.

I got everything from "I would have floored it" (there was a garage in front of me, I was in a driveway), to "I woulda grabbed the gun and shot all three of them, with my super ninja moves!" Many of them told me that I should have just driven off, because they probably didn't have bullets in their guns....

Umm...if they can get guns, I'm quite sure they can get ammo.

The moral of the story is that everyone always thinks they could have done better if it were them in some sort of unexpected and nerve-wracking situation...and the truth is that you just don't know. I didn't pee myself, and I didn't do anything stupid to escalate the situation, so I'm okay with it.

The weirdest thing is that eventually my wallet was found in a dumpster--and all the pictures were removed, but the credit cards/driver's license was still there....

[Natalie]

//

[amy31416]

Wow, worst robbers ever. They took the car keys but not the car? Did you have cash in your wallet?

They got $8. :p I cancelled my credit card immediately.

They were going to steal the car, but couldn't drive a manual and I think they got spooked at the notion of dragging me out of the car (it was a residential neighborhood, and while I handed my wallet over without much fuss--I think I made it clear that I was not getting out of the car.) They took the keys so I couldn't follow them, I'm pretty sure.

They were probably about 15-16 years old, they had no idea what they were doing...and my car was a crappy Toyota.

[Philhelm]

From the youtube comments, and what I would be inclined to tell this Marine:

One more potential ally, hopefully.

[Philhelm]

Its very funny to me all of the "17 year olds are kids" people in this. I am now 18, but when I was 17 I was a solid 6'2 270 football player bench pressing around 250 and squatting around 400. Not to mention 1 year of Tae Kwon Do experience and 3 years of boxing experience. I as one 17 year old "kid" have little doubt I could take your average 27 year old (though probably not a marine), let alone if I had 4 friends.

First I think the close combat ability of our military personnel is exaggerated. Just because someone is a soldier, doesn't mean that the person is a brawler. A lot of people tend to assume that, and it's a misconception that I would never try to dissuade people from in person. ;) Also, even average sized 17-year-olds would have the advantage with enough numbers. Honestly, how many people have the ability to take on five or more people at once? Sure, if a bunch of 10-year-olds attacked me, I'd likely defeat them, but what if one has a baseball bat or something? Numerical superiority counts for a hell of a lot. I was a soldier, but if five older teenagers started rushing me, I wouldn't be confident of victory by any means. Hell, I'd argue that even three would put me at a disadvantage. Also, according to military doctrine, the "magic number" in order to generally guarantee victory is a three to one numerical advantage. I'd assume the same principle could apply to brawls.

[BamaAla]

One of the things that's funny about a lot of men, is that they always play the "I would have done x, y or z if I were in your shoes..."

I know what I would have done...bowel evacuation!

[Lord Xar]

So, a bunch of black teenagers beat up a white couple? If a bunch of white dudes beat up a black couple, holy shit - that shit would be playing non-stop on the news......... "Racist WHITE thugs harm decorated serviceman and wife while carrying bibles..racial epithats were heard..."...

[fj45lvr]

I was also disturbed by the soldier's comment about "fighting for this country".....

wake up. And those little punks will eventually have as much say as this dude to what happens with his own person and property!! He just received a more graphic example of what is happening to everyone (getting jumped by punks in suit jackets).

[amy31416]

I know what I would have done...bowel evacuation!

I know that's a distinct possibility for me too! Probably would have gone into Woody Allen mode and been like "Hey fellas, what do you say we, uhh, go talk this over....get a nice sandwich. If I haven't mentioned, those are fantastic shoes...and, I just, I just...wanted to say that, obviously you have a great eye for fashion--have you considered that? I know a guy, who, uhh...HEY LOOK OVER THERE!!" (Runs away while yelling "Wait, no I'm a bleeder! My doctor said death would be tremendously bad for me....)

[Bruce]

That's another issue as well. The news report on YouTube only said that five teens were arrested, along with an adult woman who had interfered with the police. There may well have been more people involved.

There's a lot of numbers being thrown around. I would love to read the police report from that night to actually get to the bottom of this. Some proper video footage from the incident wouldn't hurt either (somebody get their hands on those squad car camera feeds).

Earlier in the thread agitator posted a link to a blog post that aggregated information related to this incident (http://conservativenation.net/2010/12/29/white-couple-attacked-by-dozens-of-black-youths-in-bradenton-florida-media-silent/). It includes a comment from the wife of the marine, who states they were initially surrounded by 10 black girls and that her husband was then attacked by 6 black males. She also states that a mob of about 60 individuals formed which another witness describes as being hostile (at the very least intimating). Another new story from the Bradenton Herald (http://www.bradenton.com/2010/12/27/2837235/manatee-sheriff-couple-attacked.html) contains a reference to either the husband or the wife saying that "20 teens were being obnoxious and loud during the movie" and refers to a crowd consisting of 100 to about 300 individuals.

[payme_rick]

Five 17 year olds in decent shape that fight here and there could take Mike Tyson IMO, though it may not be too easy... Mike Tyson, as most fighters, focus on fighting one opponent and focussing on that opponent's upper body... I'd say it would go something like this:

5 teens aggressively approach Tyson, Tyson knocks out the first one, another one goes to tackle Tyson, Tyson gets a shot in but while doing that is getting brought to the ground by the other three... the second guy that got hit by Tyson joins back in as the first still lays on the ground convulsing... 4 guys beat, kick etc... Tyson until he's flat done, never tasting the savory flesh of the teens' ears...

[torchbearer]

Important lesson to be learned here.

The riots in Greece and Spain over government "austerity" measures will look like a mild fracas compared compared to the unglued insanity that will take place here once the government cheese runs out.

Be prepared.

I won't starve as my freezer will be full of looter meat.
i'm adding a .45-70 to my arsenal. the thing looks like a 50 cal. will penetrate several people thick in a crowd.

[Zap!]

Its very funny to me all of the "17 year olds are kids" people in this. I am now 18, but when I was 17 I was a solid 6'2 270 football player bench pressing around 250 and squatting around 400. Not to mention 1 year of Tae Kwon Do experience and 3 years of boxing experience. I as one 17 year old "kid" have little doubt I could take your average 27 year old (though probably not a marine), let alone if I had 4 friends.

Especially with the name Rocco. :) Seriously, everyone I've ever met with that name was tough.

[Anti Federalist]

Especially with the name Rocco. :) Seriously, everyone I've ever met with that name was tough.

LulZ

[Zap!]

Five 17 year olds in decent shape that fight here and there could take Mike Tyson IMO, though it may not be too easy... Mike Tyson, as most fighters, focus on fighting one opponent and focussing on that opponent's upper body... I'd say it would go something like this:

5 teens aggressively approach Tyson, Tyson knocks out the first one, another one goes to tackle Tyson, Tyson gets a shot in but while doing that is getting brought to the ground by the other three... the second guy that got hit by Tyson joins back in as the first still lays on the ground convulsing... 4 guys beat, kick etc... Tyson until he's flat done, never tasting the savory flesh of the teens' ears...

Maybe, maybe not. Five 270 pound 17 year olds would be a different story, but those are not your average teens. What does the average 17 year old weigh anyway? I'd put my money on Tyson '88 vs. average ones.

Supposedly, Bruce Lee took on five black belts who were grown men from a rival school all at once in the street. I don't know though, seems nearly impossible for a 140 pounder do accomplish something like that.

[KCIndy]

The moral of the story is that everyone always thinks they could have done better if it were them in some sort of unexpected and nerve-wracking situation...and the truth is that you just don't know. I didn't pee myself, and I didn't do anything stupid to escalate the situation, so I'm okay with it.



Sounds like you got out alive and unhurt.

In my book, that means you won.

[oyarde]

One of the things that's funny about a lot of men, is that they always play the "I would have done x, y or z if I were in your shoes..."

You guys wouldn't believe some of the insane stuff that men said they would have done if they'd been held up at gunpoint, as I was. It was three guys, at least two with visible guns, and I was in my car, one guy with the gun right in my face...they took my wallet, my car keys and ran.

I got everything from "I would have floored it" (there was a garage in front of me, I was in a driveway), to "I woulda grabbed the gun and shot all three of them, with my super ninja moves!" Many of them told me that I should have just driven off, because they probably didn't have bullets in their guns....

Umm...if they can get guns, I'm quite sure they can get ammo.

The moral of the story is that everyone always thinks they could have done better if it were them in some sort of unexpected and nerve-wracking situation...and the truth is that you just don't know. I didn't pee myself, and I didn't do anything stupid to escalate the situation, so I'm okay with it.

The weirdest thing is that eventually my wallet was found in a dumpster--and all the pictures were removed, but the credit cards/driver's license was still there....

You did the right thing . What kind of pictures ?

[oyarde]

Not to mention that he was probably distracted by the fact that his wife might get hurt too, could have been different if it were just him.

That would have been a major problem for me ...

[oyarde]

That sucks. I was at Paranormal Activity 2 and these stupid teenagers were being so freaking loud. The whole movie was ruined. From now on, every time I go to the movies I am only going to the 11am matinee show. Teenagers don't wake up before noon.

I used to go to the afternoon matinee , hardly anyone there and they charged less .

[amy31416]

You did the right thing . What kind of pictures ?

Nieces and nephews...one goofy one of me when I was a kid that I kept over my driver's license.

Like I said, weird.

[oyarde]

Nieces and nephews...one goofy one of me when I was a kid that I kept over my driver's license.

Like I said, weird.

That is weird and kind of disturbing about the young relatives .