Chris Matthews wants to see Obama long form birth certificate

[ghengis86]

http://visiontoamerica.org/story/chris-matthews-asks-obama-to-release-birth-certificate.html

Chris Matthews, the anchor of MSNBC's "Hardball" program, is now calling for Barack Obama to release his original, long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate to put to rest any doubts about the president's constitutional eligibility to hold office.

On last night's edition of his show, Matthews stated: "I am not a birther. I am an enemy of the birthers." But he continued with the questions, "Why doesn't the president just say, 'Send me a copy right now?' Why doesn't Gibbs and Axelrod say, 'Let's just get this crappy story dead?' Why not do it? ... If it exists, why not put it out?"

Matthews was joined by Clarance Page of the Chicago Tribune and David Corn of Mother Jones, who both agreed with the call for Obama to publicly release the document, which to this point has remained under wraps.

[qh4dotcom]

On last night's edition of his show, Matthews stated: "I am not a birther. I am an enemy of the birthers."

Oh yes, the same guy who said Obama was born in Indonesia is not a birther

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22326842#fullstory


"But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or si...mply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background? "
- Chris Matthews

[ghengis86]

Fascinating. Didn't Matthews say he was personally going to do everything he could to help Obamas presidency?

[Bruno]

Fascinating. Didn't Matthews say he was personally going to do everything he could to help Obamas presidency?

Maybe he actually thinks he is by taking this approach.

[ctiger2]

If it exists, why not put it out?"

Maybe it doesn't exist...? You'd think they'd have put it out already if they had one.

[Bruno]

Maybe it doesn't exist...? You'd think they'd have put it out already if they had one.

No, it is much more logical to spend millions on attorneys so you don't have to, lol.

[qh4dotcom]

http://visiontoamerica.org/story/chris-matthews-asks-obama-to-release-birth-certificate.html

If it exists, why not put it out?

Ha Ha Ha...Matthews claims he is not a birther, an enemy of the birthers yet asks the question "If it exists"...an anti-birther would have no doubts "it exists", no ifs.

[Philhelm]

Maybe he actually thinks he is by taking this approach.

I believe this to be true. I don't believe that Obama isn't a natural born American citizen, but there is no reason for him to not release it (unless he really isn't a natural born citizen). It does seem suspicious that he would prefer to spend money to keep it sealed. Besides, we have to show every bit of information to the damned government, so I don't care about violating the privacy of our masters one bit.

[AxisMundi]

I believe this to be true. I don't believe that Obama isn't a natural born American citizen, but there is no reason for him to not release it (unless he really isn't a natural born citizen). It does seem suspicious that he would prefer to spend money to keep it sealed. Besides, we have to show every bit of information to the damned government, so I don't care about violating the privacy of our masters one bit.

There is no law stating a sitting POTUS must release his personal information to the general public. The president also enjoys the 4th Amendment.

We the People, his Employers, enjoy no right to demand said personal information.

Even still, BHO did release his short form, a government document that does indeed prove birth within our borders, and is good enough to acquire any other government document, including passports, and/or any other government services.

This entire Birther nonsense is a mere distraction generated by people who do not like the democratic process when their side isn't in the Oval Office. They did it with Slick Willie to try and circumvent the wishes of We the People, and they have tried to do it with Bamers as well.

[Slutter McGee]

No, it is much more logical to spend millions on attorneys so you don't have to, lol.

Another option exists. If by not releasing it, they can demonize those who demand it, perhaps it is nothing more than a political ploy.

Slutter McGee

[TheDriver]

I've never really followed the "birther" stuff that close, and, ironically, this blog was the first time I read or heard that two major newspapers reported Obama's birth in Hawaii.


In the poll they talk about in the video, I would have answered "don't know" but after reading that ^ it removed any doubts I may have had.

[Bruno]

I've never really followed the "birther" stuff that close, and, ironically, this blog was the first time I read or heard that two major newspapers reported Obama's birth in Hawaii.


In the poll they talk about in the video, I would have answered "don't know" but after reading that ^ it removed any doubts I may have had.

That doesn't prove a thing. There are conflicting reports on which hospital he was born in, and no idea who the delivering doctor was. There is a long form missing. Obama could make one phone call and release it. Why does he instead spend millions to avoid doing so?

[dannno]

Another option exists. If by not releasing it, they can demonize those who demand it, perhaps it is nothing more than a political ploy.

Slutter McGee

Worth spending millions on? How has that worked so far, I heard the last election went pretty bad.. How's Obama's approval rating?

Millions of dollars for a political stunt that probably affects the polls less than .5%... are you shitting me??

[TheDriver]

That doesn't prove a thing.

What it proves to me is: that in 1961 little Barack was living in Hawaii. Whether he was born a few days before that or not won't disqualify him in my mind. He's been an American since he was an infant in 1961.

His parents could not have know that they had to make him appear to be a U.S. citizen in 1961, so he could become President in 2008. His mother was from Kansas, for Christ's sake.

But, like I said before I've always been in the "don't know" crowd, as that leaves me with an open-mind, but knowing two newspapers reported about his birth in 1961 makes the birther case much harder to believe or consider, imo.

[Bruno]

What it proves to me is: that in 1961 little Barack was living in Hawaii. Whether he was born a few days before that or not won't disqualify him in my mind. He's been an American since he was an infant in 1961.

His parents could not have know that they had to make him appear to be a U.S. citizen in 1961, so he could become President in 2008. His mother was from Kansas, for Christ's sake.

But, like I said before I've always been in the "don't know" crowd, as that leaves me with an open-mind, but knowing two newspapers reported about his birth in 1961 makes the birther case much harder to believe or consider, imo.

Your mind is not the Constitution.

[Anti Federalist]

There is no law stating a sitting POTUS must release his personal information to the general public. The president also enjoys the 4th Amendment.

We the People, his Employers, enjoy no right to demand said personal information.

Natural born citizenship is a job requirement.

Are you telling me that an employer can't ask to see an applicant's college degree or professional licenses required by law to do the job?

My jury is still out on the birth issue.

I look at it this way: even if it could be determined that he is constitutionally disqualified from holding the chief executives job, nothing would change anyway.

It's not like anybody within the District of Criminals follows the Constitution in any meaningful way anymore...

[Bruno]

Another option exists. If by not releasing it, they can demonize those who demand it, perhaps it is nothing more than a political ploy.

Slutter McGee

Not likely.

[AxisMundi]

Natural born citizenship is a job requirement.

Are you telling me that an employer can't ask to see an applicant's college degree or professional licenses required by law to do the job?

My jury is still out on the birth issue.

I look at it this way: even if it could be determined that he is constitutionally disqualified from holding the chief executives job, nothing would change anyway.

It's not like anybody within the District of Criminals follows the Constitution in any meaningful way anymore...

"Natural born citizenship is a job requirement." His credentials in that area are intact. He is a natural born citizen of these here United States of America.

He was born within the United States to a US citizen. His short form was released to the public in an effort to quell this nonsense and there are two newspaper announcements as well.

What has the other side claimed?

Forgery, dismissed by the Hawaiian State government.
Kenyan BC, turned out to be an Australian BC.
And a lot of empty accusation.

His short form, which is what you will receive when you ask for a copy of your BC in many states, is simply good enough.

[klamath]

What it proves to me is: that in 1961 little Barack was living in Hawaii. Whether he was born a few days before that or not won't disqualify him in my mind. He's been an American since he was an infant in 1961.

His parents could not have know that they had to make him appear to be a U.S. citizen in 1961, so he could become President in 2008. His mother was from Kansas, for Christ's sake.
But, like I said before I've always been in the "don't know" crowd, as that leaves me with an open-mind, but knowing two newspapers reported about his birth in 1961 makes the birther case much harder to believe or consider, imo.
I am not a birther but there are probably 10 million mexican babies intentionally born in America because there are quite a few benefits being born an American over a Mexican or Kenyan. His mother could not have been so stupid to think there would be any advantage to Barry, being born in Kenya.

[Bruno]

"Natural born citizenship is a job requirement." His credentials in that area are intact. He is a natural born citizen of these here United States of America.

He was born within the United States to a US citizen. His short form was released to the public in an effort to quell this nonsense and there are two newspaper announcements as well.

What has the other side claimed?

Forgery, dismissed by the Hawaiian State government.
Kenyan BC, turned out to be an Australian BC.
And a lot of empty accusation.

His short form, which is what you will receive when you ask for a copy of your BC in many states, is simply good enough.

The whole argument is that he was not born in the U.S. The short form released is not sufficient, as it does not show the doctor or hospital of birth. The short form is one given to nearly anyone, without proof. It's not even a copy of the original. The newspaper announcements prove nothing, you can call in and announce the birth of your child.

[Tinnuhana]

What if there's something else on the long form that would be embarassing to the family, besides place of birth? I'm not trying to debate one way or the other, but could that be a possible reason for not releasing it?

[klamath]

What if there's something else on the long form that would be embarassing to the family, besides place of birth? I'm not trying to debate one way or the other, but could that be a possible reason for not releasing it?
Like what? He was born with his head on backwards. Just kidding.

[coastie]

Like what? He was born with his head on backwards up his ass? Just kiddingSeriously.

Fixed that for you.;)

[qh4dotcom]

I am not a birther but there are probably 10 million mexican babies intentionally born in America because there are quite a few benefits being born an American over a Mexican or Kenyan. His mother could not have been so stupid to think there would be any advantage to Barry, being born in Kenya.

Finally someone gets it :)

[spudea]

no president in the history of the united states has been required by law to release the long form birth certificate to the public at large. Anyone that disagrees with this fact needs to stop attacking Obama and advocate for changing the law.

Otherwise, you look like a nut job conspiracy wacko racist.

Why pay legal fees to defend this you ask? Because they have to, they can't just not show up for court as the defendants when a case is brought against him. The birthers are the ones trying to prosecute the case, so the defendant is required to show up.

[Bruno]

no president in the history of the united states has been required by law to release the long form birth certificate to the public at large. Anyone that disagrees with this fact needs to stop attacking Obama and advocate for changing the law.

Otherwise, you look like a nut job conspiracy wacko racist.

Why pay legal fees to defend this you ask? Because they have to, they can't just not show up for court as the defendants when a case is brought against him. The birthers are the ones trying to prosecute the case, so the defendant is required to show up.

1) This is the only president in history whose birthplace was in question.
2) Why ya gotta throw race into it?
3) So, he can't just actually appear in court, he is FORCED to spend millions to stay out of court, instead of producing a birth certificate? Thats ridiculous.
4) Conspiracy theorist? Perhaps I am, enough conspiracy theories have proven to be true. Nut job, wacko, racicst? Certainly not. I would just like to see the birth certificate.

[TheDriver]

The newspaper announcements prove nothing, you can call in and announce the birth of your child.

So, your argument is Obama's parents lied in 1961?

[Bruno]

So, your argument is Obama's parents lied in 1961?

That's certainly a possibility, and wouldn't be the first time someone lied to attempt to claim citizenship.

There are a few dozen reasons (or millions, if you look at it another way) to question where Obama was born.

[TheDriver]

That's certainly a possibility, and wouldn't be the first time someone lied to attempt to claim citizenship.

There are a few dozen reasons (or millions, if you look at it another way) to question where Obama was born.

It's certainly a possibility, I suppose.

This governor claims to have known the Obama's growing up, but unless he was there and saw the live birth, his 2 cents doesn't solve the question.

[MelissaCato]

F
So, your argument is Obama's parents lied in 1961?

Maybe is was all planned from the very begining. I did hear Obama was related to some politically convient people's.

[specsaregood]

1) This is the only president in history whose birthplace was in question.


Not quite. "The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility. "

[Vessol]

He's not a birther, but he's using the same argument, lol.

[Bruno]

Not quite. "The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility. "

I stand thankfully and gratefully corrected. :)

Were those that questioned his eligibility being racist?

[qh4dotcom]

Bump

[Bruno]

I remember that not too long ago birther threads didn't last very long in the general politics section of this forum...they got moved to "hot topics"...I wonder why they don't get moved anymore.

CNN is talking about it, Msnbc is talking about it, it is in their politics section.

[qh4dotcom]

CNN is talking about it, Msnbc is talking about it, it is in their politics section.

CNN? Source?

[Matt Collins]

I believe this to be true. I don't believe that Obama isn't a natural born American citizen, but there is no reason for him to not release it (unless he really isn't a natural born citizen). It does seem suspicious that he would prefer to spend money to keep it sealed. Besides, we have to show every bit of information to the damned government, so I don't care about violating the privacy of our masters one bit.

What if there's something else on the long form that would be embarassing to the family, besides place of birth? I'm not trying to debate one way or the other, but could that be a possible reason for not releasing it?

This!!!

My guess?
I think the long form might say that he is "negro" or "mulatto" or even "Caucasian". The term "negro" is obviously archaic to today's society so I could see why they wouldn't want it being tossed around. But if it says that he is "mulatto" or "mixed" or "Caucasian" that would mean that he is "not black" which has the potential of affecting him politically.

AND

There is maybe the possibility that the long form says that his parents were unmarried at the time of his birth, which would then make him a "bastard". Everyone calls him that anyway, so now it would just be a legal fact :p

[Number19]

So, your argument is Obama's parents lied in 1961?

No, this is not necessarily true. As I recall, there was a question that Hawaii allowed parents to obtain a certification of birth for foreign born children under certain circumstances. Having been issued such a "birth certificate" the newspapers would have picked up on it and published the announcement along with all the other births for that time period. As I also recall, trying to piece together a time line subscribing to this theory, I found it pushing the limits of probability. But the uncertainty still remains.

Also, up until yesterday, I had never read a definitive statement of which hospital Obama supposedly was born in, but newly elected Governor Neil Abercrombie, who would have been 23 in 1961, has stated unequivocally, "His father was one of the first scholarship students coming to the United States and he came to the University of Hawaii, which we were very proud (of) ... We became good friends." He states that Obama was born at the Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

[TheDriver]

No, this is not necessarily true. As I recall, there was a question that Hawaii allowed parents to obtain a certification of birth for foreign born children under certain circumstances. Having been issued such a "birth certificate" the newspapers would have picked up on it and published the announcement along with all the other births for that time period. As I also recall, trying to piece together a time line subscribing to this theory, I found it pushing the limits of probability. But the uncertainty still remains.

Also, up until yesterday, I had never read a definitive statement of which hospital Obama supposedly was born in, but newly elected Governor Neil Abercrombie, who would have been 23 in 1961, has stated unequivocally, "His father was one of the first scholarship students coming to the United States and he came to the University of Hawaii, which we were very proud (of) ... We became good friends." He states that Obama was born at the Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

Interesting, thanks, reps.

[specsaregood]

No, this is not necessarily true. As I recall, there was a question that Hawaii allowed parents to obtain a certification of birth for foreign born children under certain circumstances. Having been issued such a "birth certificate" the newspapers would have picked up on it and published the announcement along with all the other births for that time period. As I also recall, trying to piece together a time line subscribing to this theory, I found it pushing the limits of probability. But the uncertainty still remains.
Yes, the claims I have heard is that Obama's half-sister who was born in indonesia (not disputed) has an HI birth certificate because of that loophole at the time.

[Bruno]

CNN? Source?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/12/27/ps.obama.birther.governor.cnn?hpt=T2

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?274083-CNN-Hawaii-Gov.-tries-to-end-birther-debate-once-and-for-all

[Agorism]

Should have named this thread "Chris Matthews joins the birther movement."

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Such kooky shit. The guys mom was a US citizen, end of story. Doesn't matter where he was born.

[Bruno]

Such kooky shit. The guys mom was a US citizen, end of story. Doesn't matter where he was born.

Kooky shit like no one on his entire block cited as his birthplace can remember them living there, including his nextdoor neighbors who lived there at the time?

Kooky shit like the newspaper announcements were published 9 days after his birth, and received their information from the state when someone filed for a Certificate of Live Birth, not from a hospital report, basically being no proof at all that he was born in Hawaii?

I don't think that's kooky, it raises questions.

[teacherone]

Kooky shit like no one on his entire block cited as his birthplace can remember them living there, including his nextdoor neighbors who lived there at the time?

Kooky shit like the newspaper announcements were published 9 days after his birth, and received their information from the state when someone filed for a Certificate of Live Birth, not from a hospital report, basically being no proof at all that he was born in Hawaii?

I don't think that's kooky, it raises questions.

sources please?

[dannno]

sources please?

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=104678

[Bruno]

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=104678

Thank, danno. I was out doing yard work. It's 57 out!

[dannno]

Thank, danno. I was out doing yard work. It's 57 out!

Congratufuckinglations, it's only 56 here where I am in CA, which is pretty cold for mid-day even in winter, the highs are usually in the low 60s.. but it has been SUUUPPPER windy and cold the last couple days..

[AxisMundi]

Kooky shit like no one on his entire block cited as his birthplace can remember them living there, including his nextdoor neighbors who lived there at the time?

Kooky shit like the newspaper announcements were published 9 days after his birth, and received their information from the state when someone filed for a Certificate of Live Birth, not from a hospital report, basically being no proof at all that he was born in Hawaii?

I don't think that's kooky, it raises questions.

Yes, sources please.

Showing how neighbors would not be able to forget about someone 50 years later.
Your "9 day" example and how this wouldn't be standard procedure for said newspapers.

And lastly how the fact that his mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth which means Obama could have been born on Mars and still be a US citizen somehow doesn't matter

[Galileo Galilei]

No, because if Obama was a duel citizen and concealed it, he would not be electable.

[AxisMundi]

No, because if Obama was a duel citizen and concealed it, he would not be electable.

Mind showing where in the Constitution dual citizenship prohibits a citizen from office?

[Galileo Galilei]

Mind showing where in the Constitution dual citizenship prohibits a citizen from office?

I'm talking about voter behavior. I doubt voters would knowingly elect a dual citizen as president of the United States, especially someone who tried to conceal that fact from the public and was caught doing it.

[AxisMundi]

I'm talking about voter behavior. I doubt voters would knowingly elect a dual citizen as president of the United States, especially someone who tried to conceal that fact from the public and was caught doing it.

Thank you for clarifying.

I doubt dual citizenship would be that much of a concern, but opinions differ.

[Bruno]

Yes, sources please.

Showing how neighbors would not be able to forget about someone 50 years later.
Your "9 day" example and how this wouldn't be standard procedure for said newspapers.

And lastly how the fact that his mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth which means Obama could have been born on Mars and still be a US citizen somehow doesn't matter

It's in the link that danno provided, that was the source.
If a couple that lived in that house in Hawaii for 50 years didn't know that in 1961 an African young man was living with his unwed girlfriend and had brought home a child together one day, I'd be shocked, not think that was completely natural. And no one that they could find on that block remembered them. As a foreign exchange student from Africa, the first in the university's history, he would be known to be living there if he did.

The point about the date of the newspapers is that everyone points to it as proof. I'm not claiming they are faked copies, but when you simply have to apply for a birth certificate in order to get your name in the paper, and nine days later your name appears with the date you said your child was born, it doesn't stand that that is conclusive evidence he was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4th. The article discusses documenting with both newspapers how they received information at the time, which was directly from the state.

And I am not arguing how a court might describe a natual born citizen, there are numerous opinions on that, including that his mother was only 17 and unwed at the time and how that might affect it. Show the birth certificate and let's take it from there.

[Galileo Galilei]

Thank you for clarifying.

I doubt dual citizenship would be that much of a concern, but opinions differ.

It would be a huge issue. A huge chunk of the population won;t vote for a dual citizen. Most people want 100% loyalty to the United States, as did our Founding Fathers.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

It would be a huge issue. A huge chunk of the population won;t vote for a dual citizen. Most people want 100% loyalty to the United States, as did our Founding Fathers.

That's now what it was about, but what a horrible way to judge loyalty. I'd think the guy who actually earns their citizenship would be more loyal than some brat who ungratefully got it through birth.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

It's in the link that danno provided, that was the source.
If a couple that lived in that house in Hawaii for 50 years didn't know that in 1961 an African young man was living with his unwed girlfriend and had brought home a child together one day, I'd be shocked, not think that was completely natural. And no one that they could find on that block remembered them. As a foreign exchange student from Africa, the first in the university's history, he would be known to be living there if he did.

The point about the date of the newspapers is that everyone points to it as proof. I'm not claiming they are faked copies, but when you simply have to apply for a birth certificate in order to get your name in the paper, and nine days later your name appears with the date you said your child was born, it doesn't stand that that is conclusive evidence he was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4th. The article discusses documenting with both newspapers how they received information at the time, which was directly from the state.

And I am not arguing how a court might describe a natual born citizen, there are numerous opinions on that, including that his mother was only 17 and unwed at the time and how that might affect it. Show the birth certificate and let's take it from there.

Done, debates over. He's a fucking natural US citizen. As far as I'm concerned the constitution says nothing about birth certificates so the last sentence is worthless.

[Galileo Galilei]

That's now what it was about, but what a horrible way to judge loyalty. I'd think the guy who actually earns their citizenship would be more loyal than some brat who ungratefully got it through birth.

That's not logical. People who were born in the US are more likely to have their family and closest relatives in the US.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

That's not logical. People who were born in the US are more likely to have their family and closest relatives in the US.

What does family have to do with it? Maybe you have no relatives or friends who were foreigners and became citizens, but when it comes to my grandparents they were more loyal to America than most bratty assholes who are spoiled enough to be born into it. Despite having family in Europe.

[Galileo Galilei]

What does family have to do with it? Maybe you have no relatives or friends who were foreigners and became citizens, but when it comes to my grandparents they were more loyal to America than most bratty assholes who are spoiled enough to be born into it. Despite having family in Europe.

It is called family ties. It is considered in many contexts, like bail or child custody, for example. Have you ever heard of a candidate stating that they have family "roots" in a community? Have you ever heard a carpetbagger criticized?

[Bruno]

Done, debates over. He's a fucking natural US citizen. As far as I'm concerned the constitution says nothing about birth certificates so the last sentence is worthless.

Well, fortunately, you are not the last word on this. :) But you're welcome to move along now that the debate is over for you.

For the record, there was serious discussion here and elsewhere about McCain's citizenship status as well. Enough so, that one then Sen. Barack Obama sponsored a Bill to clear that up. Perhaps he was hoping for leeway on his own eligibility.

[AxisMundi]

It would be a huge issue. A huge chunk of the population won;t vote for a dual citizen. Most people want 100% loyalty to the United States, as did our Founding Fathers.

Arnold is a naturalized citizen. If his citizenship status wasn't an issue, do you think people wouldn't vote for him?

McCain was born in a foreign country, granted on a US military base, yet this has never been an issue with voters.

[AxisMundi]

Well, fortunately, you are not the last word on this. :) But you're welcome to move along now that the debate is over for you.

For the record, there was serious discussion here and elsewhere about McCain's citizenship status as well. Enough so, that one then Sen. Barack Obama sponsored a Bill to clear that up. Perhaps he was hoping for leeway on his own eligibility.

The question of McCain's citizenship was indeed brought up, at many of the forums I frequent, and then dropped immediately when the facts were exposed.

The same occurred with BHO too, except for a small group of Birthers who are simply too impatient to wait either until election time or Barry's allotted time as POTUS to run out.

Neither party wins National elections anymore. One party gets in power and Fails Epically, and the Moderate base votes for the other guy. Neither the Dems or the Republicans have actually won National elections since the Carter Administration, if not earlier, they merely loose the election to the other guy.

This has resulted in the Neoconservatives developing a definite predilection towards fabrications in an attempt to force the "other guy" to loose by swinging popular support their way. Combined with a lack of a charismatic and/or capable leader offered by the DNC, these fabrications helped the Republicans to first get Bush43 into office, and then keep that office four years later.

The GOP just doesn't realize that the Moderate Base doesn't buy the bullshit anymore, and IMHO, successes generated by an Epic Fail from the Democrats, largely due to the juvenile blocking tactics of the GOP in general (present company excluded Dr. Paul) in addition to certain failed progressive policies, will create the mentality that Bullshit actually worked for them. I fully expect the level of fabrications to rise after the next national election cycle, although the quality will of course remain the same. I.E. None.

[Bruno]

The question of McCain's citizenship was indeed brought up, at many of the forums I frequent, and then dropped immediately when the facts were exposed.

The same occurred with BHO too, except for a small group of Birthers who are simply too impatient to wait either until election time or Barry's allotted time as POTUS to run out.

Neither party wins National elections anymore. One party gets in power and Fails Epically, and the Moderate base votes for the other guy. Neither the Dems or the Republicans have actually won National elections since the Carter Administration, if not earlier, they merely loose the election to the other guy.

This has resulted in the Neoconservatives developing a definite predilection towards fabrications in an attempt to force the "other guy" to loose by swinging popular support their way. Combined with a lack of a charismatic and/or capable leader offered by the DNC, these fabrications helped the Republicans to first get Bush43 into office, and then keep that office four years later.

The GOP just doesn't realize that the Moderate Base doesn't buy the bullshit anymore, and IMHO, successes generated by an Epic Fail from the Democrats, largely due to the juvenile blocking tactics of the GOP in general (present company excluded Dr. Paul) in addition to certain failed progressive policies, will create the mentality that Bullshit actually worked for them. I fully expect the level of fabrications to rise after the next national election cycle, although the quality will of course remain the same. I.E. None.

Glad to hear the forums you frequented "dropped it". Whew! Well, it wasn't "dropped immediately" by the Senate. Constitutional scholars were involved, and there was a lot of uncertainty about it. The passed a resolution to ensure that McCain could run.

And now your claim is that the birthers were too impatient to wait until he was annointed president before they raised the issue? That's ridiculous. Then the argument would have been, "if you were so concerned, why didn't you bring it up before? Now it's too late, as he has sealed the nomination for the Democrat party and won the election."

[AxisMundi]

Glad to hear the forums you frequented "dropped it". Whew! Well, it wasn't "dropped immediately" by the Senate. Constitutional scholars were involved, and there was a lot of uncertainty about it. The passed a resolution to ensure that McCain could run.

And now your claim is that the birthers were too impatient to wait until he was annointed president before they raised the issue? That's ridiculous. Then the argument would have been, "if you were so concerned, why didn't you bring it up before? Now it's too late, as he has sealed the nomination for the Democrat party and won the election."

Said resolution offered by the democrats was a non-binding resolution, meaning it is not a law.

[Bruno]

Said resolution offered by the democrats was a non-binding resolution, meaning it is not a law.

Your point? Who was the sponsor? Oh, yeah, it was Obama. Hmm....

[AxisMundi]

Your point? Who was the sponsor? Oh, yeah, it was Obama. Hmm....

And what is your point?

Said resolution was not legally binding, and therefor could not work in BHO's favor in any legal manner whatsoever.

It was an attempt forwarded by the Democrats to lay the issue to rest so that people could move on to important matters, something not offered by the Republicans, and especially now by Birthers.