WSJ: The uniter, Mike Pence for president?

[Agorism]

Fiscal, Military Hawk Builds GOP Stature
Republican Conservatives View Indiana's Pence as Frontline Candidate for 2012 for His Potential to Unite Party Wings

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BJ580_PENCE_G_20101226171710.jpg


When conservative activist and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer scans the potential 2012 Republican field, not much excites him. "All the obvious frontline names have all the usual pluses and minuses," Mr. Bauer says.

But in considering one candidate, Mr. Bauer sees only qualities that he likes. Indiana Rep. Mike Pence is a military and fiscal hawk who frequently plugs his Christian credentials. To some, he's the potential candidate best able to unite two wings of the Republican Party—its fiscal conservatives and social conservatives.

"He is definitely the guy to watch," says Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association, a group that opposes gay marriage and abortion.

Now, Mr. Pence has a decision to make: While he says he is seriously weighing a run for the White House, many signs point to him running for Indiana governor in 2012 instead. No one else mulling a presidential run faces a similar quandary. Mr. Pence says he plans to announce his decision early next year.

"I'd put money on him running for governor over president, because the field is a lot smaller and he wouldn't be running against an incumbent," says Indiana's recently retired GOP chairman, Murray Clark.

Mr. Pence usually draws under 5% in voter surveys testing the emerging 2012 field. But the excitement he's stirred among a swath of conservatives—he won a straw poll at the prominent Values Voter Summit in September—points both to the fluidity of the 2012 lineup and the dearth of names rousing interest among the religious right, a dependable GOP voting bloc.

Mr. Bauer believes that if Mr. Pence ran, he would quickly build support among socially conservative voters. "The nomination battle would be very wide open without Mike," Mr. Bauer says, who is one of several activists urging Mr. Pence to join the nomination fight.

A former radio personality, the 51-year-old Mr. Pence became a darling among fiscal conservatives for opposing two of President George W. Bush's signature initiatives, the 2001 No Child Left Behind education act and the 2003 Medicare Part D drug benefit. He saw both as violating his party's small-government principles.

Mr. Pence favors reducing the size of the federal government, and even the power of the presidency. He wants to amend the Constitution both to ban abortions and to allow marriage only between men and women. He says increased security along the Mexican border must precede any immigration overhaul.

Mr. Pence was also among the first congressmen to jump on the tea-party wave in early 2009, speaking at rallies across Indiana and in Washington.

It was his speech at the Values Voter Summit, a marquee annual event among social conservative groups, which did the most to rouse support. The speech, with its calls to ban all federal abortion funding and stem-cell research, drew standing ovations and chants of "President Pence."

When summit attendees cast ballots in a straw poll for president, Mr. Pence came in first, ahead of former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and others.

For many conservatives, Mr. Pence holds much the same allure that Mr. Huckabee did in the 2008 campaign. Mr. Huckabee tapped into support from home-schoolers and evangelicals to pull off a surprise win in the Iowa caucus, though could never catch Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.), the eventual nominee.

"The big question with Huckabee is whether he can raise enough money to be a real contender in 2012," says Tom Minnery, head of public policy for Focus on the Family. As a fresher face, he says, Mr. Pence "is someone who could generate a lot of enthusiasm" in Iowa and other early nominating states and possibly show more durability in the long presidential campaign.

The Indiana lawmaker, who first won election to Congress in 2000, also has the backing of budget hawks such as Chris Chocola, a former Indiana congressman who is now president of the fiscally conservative Club for Growth. "Mike has the retail appeal of Huckabee but is an across-the-board conservative with all the credentials. There is no one else like that," says Mr. Chocola.

Feeding speculation about his presidential ambitions, Mr. Pence has visited Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina in the past year, all states with early roles in the nominating process. And yet Mr. Pence and others in his camp continue to drop hints that he's shying from a White House run. The thought of a presidential campaign, Mr. Pence said in an interview, "is more humbling than tempting."He says he's weary of Washington. "I prefer the Flat Rock River to the Potomac River, and the Flat Rock is about a half a block from my house," he said.

Associates in Indiana say the governor's race fits him best, and would position him for a potential future shot at the White House. James Garfield, 130 years ago, was the only man ever elected president straight from a House seat.

"Mike once told me that it's sometimes better to shoot free throws than take half-court shots. I think that logic applies to him here, as well," said Luke Messer, a former Indiana GOP chairman.

The current Indiana governor, Republican Mitch Daniels, is term-limited in 2012 and said to be eyeing a presidential campaign himself.

Mr. Pence has long been considered a potential replacement, and his path to the governor's office has only grown easier after Lt. Gov. Becky Skillman, a Republican, and Sen. Evan Bayh (D., Ind.) announced earlier this month that they would not run for the job.

Mr. Pence had already crisscrossed Indiana this year in support of local Republicans, contributing over $84,000 to their campaigns and attending 30 events for state legislative candidates.

Recently, as many House members flew back into Washington for the last days of the congressional session, Mr. Pence was still back home, filling in as a Salvation Army bell-ringer outside the Hobby Lobby in Anderson, Ind.

"It was good for my soul," he said.

Write to Neil King Jr. at neil.king@wsj.com

[johnrocks]

Way too neo connish for me, I don't even know how one can call him a fiscal conservative with his foreign policy views and his lips are securely wrapped around Israel's butt cheeks so;for me; it's a big no.

[specsaregood]

Mike Pence is a military and fiscal hawk
Oxymoron alert!

[fisharmor]

Mike Pence is a military and fiscal hawk who frequently plugs his Christian credentials.
Double oxymoron alert!

[sailingaway]

The WTF?

[specsaregood]

Double oxymoron alert!
Good catch.
Perhaps we should just simplify it to: *moron alert.

[ItsTime]

Clearly Pence has no idea what a fiscal Conservative is or what a Christian is for that matter. And the media is feeding the public more bullsh1t to eat.

[Sola_Fide]

Ughhh...

Mike "gold standard" Pence is everywhere in the MSM now.

I'm telling you guys, the Christian-leaning social-con Tea Partiers are eating this guy up...we need to wage an intellectual war against his imperialism sooner rather than later...

[TheDriver]

...we need to wage an intellectual war against his imperialism sooner rather than later...

This is politics, we need some dirt!

[cindy25]

the last time the media created a presidential candidate was Wilkie in 1940, also to force a hawk vs hawk battle with FDR. heads they win, tails they win.
the parallels are scary.

[Sola_Fide]

This is politics, we need some dirt!

Good point.

[cindy25]

no, because they would just choose another neo-con

Ron Paul has to be known as the anti-war, anti-foreign aid candidate.

[Romulus]

This is the Obama for Repubs and Teaocons.

Pure deception and bullshit.

[emazur]

He supports the forced taxation and redistribution of American wealth to Isreal, a socialist country.

That line is what we need to use against these goddamn neocons

[Brett85]

we need to wage an intellectual war against his imperialism sooner rather than later...

Why? So that Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney can win the GOP nomination instead?

[AxisMundi]

If Pence wins the Indiana gubernatorial race, I will feel extremely sorry for Indiana, which will have to labor under voter remorse until the next election, and hope that the next gov can fix all of Pence's mistakes.

The guy is a simple hypocrite. Smaller government, yet endorses an amendment to the US Constitution removing Civil Rights from gays and even removing the abortion question from the state level. He also supports such counter-productive, ineffective and revenue wasting concerns such as the Great Wall of America along our southern border.

He also hasn't gotten the memo either, Evangelicals are not a major voting block, and they are shrinking, not growing, and do not deserve to be catered to.

This article simply serves to provide an example of why I do not consider the WSJ, and especially the author Neil King Jr., to be a legitimate sources for political news.

[Fredom101]

Of course this is just more proof that elections are completely controlled, and they will float Pense for a while and see if the MSM can propagandize him into a star candidate, just like they did with Rudy G and Fred Thompson. If it's clear that Pense isn't working out they will switch to some other neocon willing to tow the party line, even Newt will do, and of course they still have their man Obama more than willing to carry out their agenda if all of these guys turn into duds. It's all fixed, politics sucks. :(

[AxisMundi]

http://www.ontheissues.org/in/mike_pence.htm

A scary, scary hypocrite.

[ctiger2]

Pence describes himself as "a Christian₁ , a conservative and a Republican, in that order." He has stated his support of Israel and its right to attack facilities in Iran to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons, has defended the actions of Israel in its use of deadly force in enforcing the blockade of Gaza and has referred to Israel as "America's most cherished ally."

₁Mike Pence is a Evangelical Christian Zionist of the highest magnitude.

[Brett85]

The guy is a simple hypocrite. Smaller government, yet endorses an amendment to the US Constitution removing Civil Rights from gays and even removing the abortion question from the state level. He also supports such counter-productive, ineffective and revenue wasting concerns such as the Great Wall of America along our southern border.

A Constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage wouldn't increase the size of government in any way. It would simply prohibit the government from becoming more involved in marriage then it is now. And like Ron Paul has said, "groups" don't have civil rights. It's only individuals that have rights. The gay lobby is one of the biggest special interest groups in Washington D.C, and yet people here don't seem to have much of problem with that special interest group dictating policy in Washington. Also, Ron Paul voted for the fence along the U.S. Mexico border. Does the fact that Ron Paul doesn't support open borders make him a "statist?"

[AxisMundi]

A Constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage wouldn't increase the size of government in any way. It would simply prohibit the government from becoming more involved in marriage then it is now. And like Ron Paul has said, "groups" don't have civil rights. It's only individuals that have rights. The gay lobby is one of the biggest special interest groups in Washington D.C, and yet people here don't seem to have much of problem with that special interest group dictating policy in Washington. Also, Ron Paul voted for the fence along the U.S. Mexico border. Does the fact that Ron Paul doesn't support open borders make him a "statist?"

"A Constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage wouldn't increase the size of government in any way"... but permitting same-gender marriage would increase the size of government. Gotcha.

And I agree with Paul. Groups don't have rights, individuals do. And ATM individual gays are being denied the simple Civil Right of marriage.

And the "gay lobby" doesn't come close to the anti-pot lobby, Big Quitters (the smoking cessation lobby), Big Religion, or any number of Big Corp lobby groups. Apparently some aren't bothered with Big Quitters lobbying various local, state, and the federal government to help build smoking cessation into a billion a year industry.

As far as Ron Paul voting for the fence?

Q: You voted to support that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. Is there a need for a similar fence along the border with Canada?

PAUL: No. The fence was my weakest reason for voting for that, but enforcing the law was important, and border security is important. And we’ve talked about amnesty, which I’m positively opposed to. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. We subsidize illegal immigration, we reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty.

http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

[Brett85]

As far as Ron Paul voting for the fence?

Q: You voted to support that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. Is there a need for a similar fence along the border with Canada?

PAUL: No. The fence was my weakest reason for voting for that, but enforcing the law was important, and border security is important. And we’ve talked about amnesty, which I’m positively opposed to. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. We subsidize illegal immigration, we reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty.

http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

Well Ron has simply said that he would prefer that the border be secured by the military rather than by a fence. But he still supports physically securing our borders. But Rand has said that he supports the border fence, so it's not an unreasonable position for a liberty minded person to have. Border security is something that's authorized by the Constitution.

[TheeJoeGlass]

It makes no sense that Pence is getting this much press. That guy has zero chance at anything. I'm shocked he made it to the House to begin with.

[TNforPaul45]

Here we go, we know their early choice for one of the positions. I have a feeling that it will be Romney/Pence on the republican ticket.

He is too much of an unknown to get a shot at the bit spot, but sounds like he would make a "great" vp for the tea-o-cons

[Brett85]

Here we go, we know their early choice for one of the positions. I have a feeling that it will be Romney/Pence on the republican ticket.

He is too much of an unknown to get a shot at the bit spot, but sounds like he would make a "great" vp for the tea-o-cons

So if Pence ends up being the GOP nominee in 2012, are libertarians and Constitutional Conservatives supposed to vote for Obama instead? I don't agree with Pence on everything, but what exactly would the alternative be?

[agar]

So if Pence ends up being the GOP nominee in 2012, are libertarians and Constitutional Conservatives supposed to vote for Obama instead? I don't agree with Pence on everything, but what exactly would the alternative be?

lesser of two evils is still evil.

the "alternative" for me is to sit back, light up a cigar, watch the whole damn system collapse.....and then gloat my ass off as I laugh at all the fools who refused to listen to us.

I get to say: "Dont blame me. I didnt vote for these clowns."

[Matt Collins]

Who?

[Brett85]

lesser of two evils is still evil.

the "alternative" for me is to sit back, light up a cigar, watch the whole damn system collapse.....and then gloat my ass off as I laugh at all the fools who refused to listen to us.

I get to say: "Dont blame me. I didnt vote for these clowns."

I would rather not give Obama the opportunity to nominate two more Supreme Court justices who will vote to abolish the 2nd amendment. Another Obama term will be a disaster for those who support liberty.

[HOLLYWOOD]

It makes no sense that Pence is getting this much press. That guy has zero chance at anything. I'm shocked he made it to the House to begin with. Yes he does... AIPAC Pence has big lobby and money quietly using their connections to pump up this puppet. If they can do it with the RINO puppet John McCain/Palin they can do it with anyone.

The game is rigged... many articles marginalizing the true American representation as radicals and extremeists, and plenty of articles to pump up their puppets.

TPTB see to it that their livelihood and rackets are not comprised. Watch it all develop slowly before your eyes.

[sailingaway]

This is the Obama for Repubs and Teaocons.

Pure deception and bullshit.

Really? Who is he supposed to inspire? I mean, we knew better, but at least we knew why Obama was drawing in the lazy brained people. I don't see it with Pence, at all.

That is one of the problems with these manufactured 'moderate' candidates, no one at all can really get excited about them.

[cindy25]

as a governor he might be ok; the problem is it would make him more viable, even the front runner for 2016 if Obama or Hillary wins

[cindy25]

it can't be Romney because of Romneycare

Christie/Pence is who MSM want

[devil21]

I would rather not give Obama the opportunity to nominate two more Supreme Court justices who will vote to abolish the 2nd amendment. Another Obama term will be a disaster for those who support liberty.

I heard that same spiel back in 2008 about why I should just hold my nose and vote for McCain. NO THANKS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

[sailingaway]

I heard that same spiel back in 2008 about why I should just hold my nose and vote for McCain. NO THANKS!

Yeah. They are finally paying SOME attention because their 'moderates they swore were electable' were shut out in primaries. If they can get away with forcing people on us, they'll never take our views into account. We NEED to show them we won't vote if we aren't represented. I'm not saying our very favorite will always get the nomination, but if they don't speak for us, we shouldn't vote for them.

[Brett85]

Yeah. They are finally paying SOME attention because their 'moderates they swore were electable' were shut out in primaries. If they can get away with forcing people on us, they'll never take our views into account. We NEED to show them we won't vote if we aren't represented. I'm not saying our very favorite will always get the nomination, but if they don't speak for us, we shouldn't vote for them.

But what Republican other than Ron Paul would actually get your vote? There's even people here who don't like Gary Johnson because he's too "pro Israel."

[Agorism]

Definitely not Mike Pence.

I think Constitution party tends to have better candidates if Paul doesn't run.

[cindy25]

vote for Obama, and work like hell to elect a Republican senate; that solves judicial appointee problem.

[AxisMundi]

Well Ron has simply said that he would prefer that the border be secured by the military rather than by a fence. But he still supports physically securing our borders. But Rand has said that he supports the border fence, so it's not an unreasonable position for a liberty minded person to have. Border security is something that's authorized by the Constitution.

Absolutely agreed. Border security is indeed important. But I'm sure you would agree (as does Ron Paul perhaps) that a multi-billion dollar fence isn't going to stop anyone.

[AxisMundi]

Definitely not Mike Pence.

I think Constitution party tends to have better candidates if Paul doesn't run.

My problem with the Constitutional Party is that they apparently don't get the First Amendment and support intrusion of religious doctrines into US secular law.

If I am mistaken, please let me know.

[AxisMundi]

vote for Obama, and work like hell to elect a Republican senate; that solves judicial appointee problem.

Our Nation has indeed seen it's best days when the "Three Houses", so to speak are, apportioned among the different major parties. We have clear examples of what occurs when both parties have all Three Houses. Progressive drag conservatives along into modern times kicking and screaming, and conservatives put the brakes on the progressives so they don't drive our country into the ditch.

However, the Bush43 administration loaded up SCOTUS and the DOJ for the express purpose of having Roe v Wade overturned. I think what a lot of people, including our Elected Employees don't understand, is that judges might rule on a case by the rule of law, not their political affiliations.

Remember, the only dissenting votes in Roe v Wade were one conservative judge and one liberal judge. And no matter what the physical make-up, the Supreme Court has upheld that ruling as well.

I believe much too much is made of a potential Justice's political affiliations, and not enough emphasis is placed on how they have ruled in the past.

[Thomas]

threat numero uno

[TheeJoeGlass]

this is a good explaination on Pence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKBNVN-bbi4

[Brett85]

Remember, the only dissenting votes in Roe v Wade were one conservative judge and one liberal judge. And no matter what the physical make-up, the Supreme Court has upheld that ruling as well.

But we haven't actually had an originalist majority on the Supreme Court since the Roe v. Wade decision. We basically have 4 members now who support a more literal interpretation of the Constitution: Thomas, Scalia, Alito, Roberts. If we could just get one more we would have a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who don't believe in judicial activism. That's why I usually just hold my nose and vote for a generic Republican for President, even though I don't agree with the current Republican Party on foreign policy issues.

[Brett85]

Absolutely agreed. Border security is indeed important. But I'm sure you would agree (as does Ron Paul perhaps) that a multi-billion dollar fence isn't going to stop anyone.

Well a fence would stop more people than not having any kind of border security at all, but I would prefer that the military secure the border rather than building a fence.

[Agorism]

I don't trust the conservative block on civil liberties.

We defeated Bush regime on every major decision by using coalitions of mainly the liberal block along with some of the more moderate conservatives. Boumediene was probably the biggest victory. Getting a precedent for these decisions at a time when the Bush regime was pushing a fascist agenda was very important as future courts will have to look back on these. We can't afford to have a super conservative block unless we can form a new legal society in opposition to the Federalist society in my opinion. Having said that, I don't trust the liberal block either.

Boumediene v. Bush 5-4 with Kennedy writing the decision
Rasul v. Bush 6-3
Hamdan v. Rumsfeld 5-3
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld




Blow up this military commissions system!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXYqGqKH44

[Romulus]

Really? Who is he supposed to inspire? I mean, we knew better, but at least we knew why Obama was drawing in the lazy brained people. I don't see it with Pence, at all.

That is one of the problems with these manufactured 'moderate' candidates, no one at all can really get excited about them.

Palin supporters and those on the fence, thinking she isnt intelligent or charismatic enough. It all depends on response and how they package him. But then again, marketing isnt a GOP strongpoint.

[Agorism]

It just annoys the hell out of me when people say that we have to vote for George Chimpanzee or McCain because he's going to save the nation with good judges.

[Brett85]

I don't trust the conservative block on civil liberties.

We defeated Bush regime on every major decision by using coalitions of mainly the liberal block along with some of the more moderate conservatives. Boumediene was probably the biggest victory. Getting a precedent for these decisions at a time when the Bush regime was pushing a fascist agenda was very important as future courts will have to look back on these. We can't afford to have a super conservative block unless we can form a new legal society in opposition to the Federalist society in my opinion. Having said that, I don't trust the liberal block either.

Boumediene v. Bush 5-4 with Kennedy writing the decision
Rasul v. Bush 6-3
Hamdan v. Rumsfeld 5-3
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld




Blow up this military commissions system!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXYqGqKH44

But aren't military tribunals actually authorized by the Constitution?

"Congress shall have the power to constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court."

[Brian4Liberty]

I would rather not give Obama the opportunity to nominate two more Supreme Court justices who will vote to abolish the 2nd amendment Bill of Rights.

Fixed that for you...

[Brett85]

Fixed that for you...

Yeah, but liberal justices have traditionally been pretty good when it comes to the 4th amendment. It's just the 2nd amendment that they don't seem to like.

[Agorism]

Scalia thinks that the 4th amendment only applies to citizens (as determined by the executive branch.)

The rest of the conservative block seems to think the 4th amendment doesn't exist at all.

[AxisMundi]

But we haven't actually had an originalist majority on the Supreme Court since the Roe v. Wade decision. We basically have 4 members now who support a more literal interpretation of the Constitution: Thomas, Scalia, Alito, Roberts. If we could just get one more we would have a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who don't believe in judicial activism. That's why I usually just hold my nose and vote for a generic Republican for President, even though I don't agree with the current Republican Party on foreign policy issues.

Have these judges commented on Roe v Wade? Are they for overturning precedence?

We can Armchair Justice all we wish, but it comes down to how the case is presented to, and ruled on by, the SC Justices.

Roe v Wade saw a bi-partisan ruling that determined that first trimester abortions cannot be outlawed, but that later one's could be. It has also held up under subsequent legal challenges as well.

[Brett85]

Have these judges commented on Roe v Wade? Are they for overturning precedence?

We can Armchair Justice all we wish, but it comes down to how the case is presented to, and ruled on by, the SC Justices.

Roe v Wade saw a bi-partisan ruling that determined that first trimester abortions cannot be outlawed, but that later one's could be. It has also held up under subsequent legal challenges as well.

Scalia and Thomas have both ruled that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. I think if push came to shove Roberts and Alito would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. They just aren't going to come out and publicly say it without actually having a case presented before them. So I think we're probably 1 Supreme Court justice away from overturning Roe v. Wade. But I can understand why pro choice libertarians wouldn't agree with me on this and wouldn't vote Republican simply because of this issue. But obviously it's a huge issue for me. I supported Ron Paul in 2008 and will support him again if he runs, but I'll vote for somebody like Pence over Obama because of the urgency of the Supreme Court issue.

[AxisMundi]

Scalia and Thomas have both ruled that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. I think if push came to shove Roberts and Alito would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. They just aren't going to come out and publicly say it without actually having a case presented before them. So I think we're probably 1 Supreme Court justice away from overturning Roe v. Wade. But I can understand why pro choice libertarians wouldn't agree with me on this and wouldn't vote Republican simply because of this issue. But obviously it's a huge issue for me. I supported Ron Paul in 2008 and will support him again if he runs, but I'll vote for somebody like Pence over Obama because of the urgency of the Supreme Court issue.

Bush43 spent 8 years loading the Supreme Court and the DOJ for the express purpose of overturning Roe v Wade.

Considering that conservative heavy courts have already upheld the ruling, I believe that voting for a party for this reason alone to be a foolhardy venture.

[Brett85]

Bush43 spent 8 years loading the Supreme Court and the DOJ for the express purpose of overturning Roe v Wade.

Considering that conservative heavy courts have already upheld the ruling, I believe that voting for a party for this reason alone to be a foolhardy venture.

Unfortunately Republican Presidents have made some bad choices over the years like David Suiter and John Paul Stevens. But I think they've learned from that, and I would certainly rather have Mike Pence appoint a justice to the Supreme Court than give Obama another opportunity.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Abortion is a bigger issue for you than illegal warmongering and police state measures?

[Brett85]

Abortion is a bigger issue for you than illegal warmongering and police state measures?

No not really, but Obama supports those things as well. Obama really doesn't have any small government views. I'm a lot closer to Mike Pence on the issues then I am to Obama, so I would choose Pence even though I don't agree with his internationalist foreign policy views.

[AxisMundi]

Unfortunately Republican Presidents have made some bad choices over the years like David Suiter and John Paul Stevens. But I think they've learned from that, and I would certainly rather have Mike Pence appoint a justice to the Supreme Court than give Obama another opportunity.

You are also missing the fact that any appointee must get by Congress first.

Obama never had the rubber stamp style of Congress Buch43 had, but now, even less so.

[AxisMundi]

No not really, but Obama supports those things as well. Obama really doesn't have any small government views. I'm a lot closer to Mike Pence on the issues then I am to Obama, so I would choose Pence even though I don't agree with his internationalist foreign policy views.

TC, do you understand what a theodemocracy is?

We'll have first hand experience if people like Pence grab the reigns of government.

[Brett85]

TC, do you understand what a theodemocracy is?

We'll have first hand experience if people like Pence grab the reigns of government.

I guess if Mike Pence gets elected President he'll create a bunch of federal drug laws. Oh wait, we already have that. What else do you think he would do?

[TheeJoeGlass]

Yea, your probably right considering Palin's rise.

[cindy25]

watching AC 360, promoted Mike Pence again.

[cindy25]

you have to look at the whole picture, including the congress. without considering the fascist might be preferable to the socialist.

but with a fascist dominated congress Obama can't do much harm; Pence would be Bush on steroids. and we have to assume the GOP will easily keep the House, probably take the senate.

[Brett85]

you have to look at the whole picture, including the congress. without considering the fascist might be preferable to the socialist.

but with a fascist dominated congress Obama can't do much harm; Pence would be Bush on steroids. and we have to assume the GOP will easily keep the House, probably take the senate.

Pence is Bush on steroids when he opposed Bush's bailouts, the No Child Left Behind Act, and the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill?

[devil21]

Pence is Bush on steroids when he opposed Bush's bailouts, the No Child Left Behind Act, and the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill?

Putting aside that such votes can easily be considered future political posturing, since the measures passed anyway...

He's just another religious Zionist and even more outspoken about it than Bush. I'm sure that's where the steroids portion comes from. Im personally tired of all the religious panderers filling the Republican party. I wish they were as partial to the Constitution as they are to the Bible.

[Agorism]

Pence is the man to carry the Bush foreign policy and war of terror for another 8 years.

[Brett85]

Pence is the man to carry the Bush foreign policy and war of terror for another 8 years.

Can you think of any other Republican other than Ron Paul and Gary Johnson who support a more non interventionist foreign policy? I'm certainly going to support Ron if he runs simply based on principle, but I'm a realist and don't really think that he has a chance of winning the GOP nomination.

[Agorism]

Can you think of any other Republican other than Ron Paul and Gary Johnson who support a more non interventionist foreign policy? I'm certainly going to support Ron if he runs simply based on principle, but I'm a realist and don't really think that he has a chance of winning the GOP nomination.

Nope, not of the candidates running, but Bush, Obama, Pence are all the same candidate as far as I'm concerned so I'm not voting for any of those people. I'd probably vote Constitution party again.

[AxisMundi]

Pence is Bush on steroids when he opposed Bush's bailouts, the No Child Left Behind Act, and the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill?

Pence did vote yes on the $192 billion additional anti-recession stimulus spending.

http://www.ontheissues.org/in/mike_pence.htm

Read the above link.

You will see a flip-flopper who rushes with the political wind, and a theodemocratic as well.

[HOLLYWOOD]

CNN? This is so laughable, because it's so obvious. Forget the left/right paradigm for a sec and think if anything would change under AIPAC PENCE?

The clever art of giving the people hope, while their money masters come up with new ways to steal from the people. It doesn't matter who's in office anymore... who would of thought that Obama being just as big a fascist corporate shill as the Bushes, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Nixon... nothing ever changes, except where the few morsels of crumbs are thrown to steer or reward votes.

watching AC 360, promoted Mike Pence again.