Why does the army discriminate against citizens with a GED?

[emazur]

This says GED holders can't enlist in most places and even if they do they lose out on bonuses and stuff.
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/enlist.html

The Army is not accepting people with a GED in most areas of the country, however, the Army reserves the right to waive certain disqualifications and allow enlistment if deemed in the best interest of the individual and the service. If you will only need a waiver for the GED, it is highly likely that you will be accepted. Please note that when the Army did accept a GED, they were required to score at least 50 on the ASVAB.

There are some drawbacks to enlisting with a GED, such as not being eligible for bonuses. If you have 15 college credit hours under your belt, you will be eligible for bonuses. Also, upon reaching 30 college semester hours, no waiver is needed for the GED.

The hell is this crap? My theory is that people who haven't been directly broken by the public schools are much less likely to be broken down by the army (and no, this post isn't meant to bash people who join the military - defense is one of the few things that the government should provide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INzzKZ6ip4c

[tangent4ronpaul]

Try taking a GED practice test and the answer will become immediately obvious.

-t

[guitarlifter]

Haha, the ASVAB. I remember that test. I took it without much thought, and, soon enough, recruiters were knocking down my family's door, begging me to join. I asked them why, and they told me it was because I scored in the 100th percentile on the ASVAB, and that qualified me for virtually any job in the military. I thought they were kidding because it's no short test, and I wasn't too familiar with some of the sections, but they showed me their screening sheet, and it said that I had scored what they claimed. I forget the job they were really trying to push on me, but it had to do with learning a bunch of languages.

[cindy25]

those with GEDs are high school dropouts, and most of society can't forgive that. but I thought the military was desperate for recruits.

[tangent4ronpaul]

those with GEDs are high school dropouts, and most of society can't forgive that. but I thought the military was desperate for recruits.

The military is increasingly high tech. A GED basically says you can perform at the 6th or 7th grade level, and that really doesn't cut it in today's military.

Even for those with a high school education, community colleges serve to teach people what they should have learned in 11th and 12th grade or act as trade schools. You do get a better education at a community college than a university for the first 2 years, however. At a community college you generally have small classes and the teacher is willing to help you during office hours. At a university, you will probably be sitting in an auditorium listining to a lecture with 300 other people, the instructor doesn't know or care what your name is and you get to ask questions to a teaching assistant once a week. The community college is also less expensive.

-t

[fisharmor]

Haha, the ASVAB. I remember that test.

Same here, scored a 99 and it got to the point where I had to tell the recruiter point-blank in an aggressive tone to stop calling me.
The problem is that I knew a LOT of former military, and each and every person I talked to said the same two things:
1 - The recruiter will say anything and everything to get you to sign.
2 - You have absolutely no guarantee that you will do what you intended to do in the military.

I actually went through the physical, and learned:
3 - If I joined I could expect a 45 minute process to take an average of 8 hours.

And given #2, I reasoned:
4 - I would have no guarantee that I would be running things at any point, and would be in a constant state of pissed off that 45 minute processes were taking 8 hours.

And here I am, 10 years later, after 10 years in the private sector, and I've learned:
5 - The private sector generally doesn't give a flying fuck through a rolling doughnut about what you learned in the military, because almost none of it is applicable to free enterprise, and what you do know can probably be learned by anyone in about 3 months.

So there you have it: unless you're planning on getting out of the military and going to work at a fascist corporation hiring prostitutes to supply boy sex slaves to Afghan police, there's not really a point.

Seems to me that they would be actively looking for people who can't tell that this is the case.

[sevin]

those with GEDs are high school dropouts, and most of society can't forgive that. but I thought the military was desperate for recruits.

Actually, since the Great Recession began, army recruiters haven't had any trouble filling their quotas because there are no private sector jobs for all these kids.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Haha, the ASVAB. I remember that test. I took it without much thought, and, soon enough, recruiters were knocking down my family's door, begging me to join. I asked them why, and they told me it was because I scored in the 100th percentile on the ASVAB, and that qualified me for virtually any job in the military. I thought they were kidding because it's no short test, and I wasn't too familiar with some of the sections, but they showed me their screening sheet, and it said that I had scored what they claimed. I forget the job they were really trying to push on me, but it had to do with learning a bunch of languages.


Yes in the good old Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery test. I have a friend who was a recruiter and he told be how surprisingly scores on ASVAB by Officier candidates (College Grads) were lower than they all expected.

GEDs should not be discriminated against entrance to the military, if they do well on the ASVAB.

[Pericles]

The Army views it as a motivation / self discipline issue. If you can't stick it out through high school in the US, what are your chances of completing an enlistment, where your superiors in rank might say mean things to you.

[RideTheDirt]

Probably because they didn't complete their first round of indoctrination...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Actually, since the Great Recession began, army recruiters haven't had any trouble filling their quotas because there are no private sector jobs for all these kids.

unemployment for 16-19yo's = 36%
unemployment for 20-24yo's = 18%

-t

[AxisMundi]

Probably because they didn't complete their first round of indoctrination...

And the employer who demands a HS diploma and won't accept a GED?

How about that private sector job that requires a degree?

The military is, for all intents and purposes, an employer. They can, and should, demand a base level of education in their recruits.

Would you really want some listless, uneducated drop-out on the trigger of some of the world's most advanced, and deadly, weapons systems?

[pcosmar]

Would you really want some listless, uneducated drop-out on the trigger of some of the world's most advanced, and deadly, weapons systems?

What makes you think a HS dropout is uneducated or listless?

What makes you think a graduate isn't ?

:confused:

[Anti Federalist]

So there you have it: unless you're planning on getting out of the military and going to work at a fascist corporation hiring prostitutes to supply boy sex slaves to Afghan police, there's not really a point.



LOL

Mega Win!

[oyarde]

Actually, since the Great Recession began, army recruiters haven't had any trouble filling their quotas because there are no private sector jobs for all these kids.

When the economy is poor , they can be selective . That is correct .

[coastie]

What makes you think a HS dropout is uneducated or listless?

What makes you think a graduate isn't ?

:confused:

+1

The kids joining nowadays are 99% idiots, "high school education" or not.

On a bright note-this should severely curtail the number of recruits joining....which in turn will cause them to reverse this I suppose.:rolleyes::confused:

[oyarde]

+1

The kids joining nowadays are 99% idiots, "high school education" or not.

On a bright note-this should severely curtail the number of recruits joining....which in turn will cause them to reverse this I suppose.:rolleyes::confused:

It will reverse when unemployment gets to 5 or 6 % and the young guys currently in Afghanistan do not re enlist

[Vessol]

3 - If I joined I could expect a 45 minute process to take an average of 8 hours..

QFT. Out of high school I almost joined the Army. Took the ASVAB and scored a 93, then went to MEPS. What was supposed to be a single day at MEPS turned into 5 days. I was never given any specific reason for the delay, and the waiting wasn't much fun. Then I got cold feet over some issues with my medical report that would take 6 months to clean up they said(when I had to send in my medical documents for my eyes, also included was a perscription for anti-depressants I took when I was 14, idiot doctor never unperscribed me them).

[AxisMundi]

What makes you think a HS dropout is uneducated or listless?

Because I know quite a few.


What makes you think a graduate isn't ?

:confused:

Never said they weren't.

Then again, the only way you can debate at all is to put words in people's mouths.

[Jordan]

What makes you think a HS dropout is uneducated or listless?

What makes you think a graduate isn't ?

:confused:

Makes for easy discrimination. On average HS dropouts are probably less intelligent than those who complete HS. If I only need X number of people and I have 2X+H people applying (where H=HS dropout), I can probably ignore the HS dropouts entirely and keep the same level of quality to fill my X.

[pcosmar]

Because I know quite a few.

.
And I have known several successful business owners that dropped out of school to go to work.

I have also known a great many college educated idiots. And welfare cases.

Your argument has little basis in fact.

AxisMundi can only hope to improve

;)

[Anti Federalist]

What makes you think a HS dropout is uneducated or listless?

What makes you think a graduate isn't ?

:confused:

Pretty good description of what most people think.

Within a few years the same disdain will be heaped upon those lacking a college degree.

Even though both a HS degree and now, more and more, a college degree, is indicative of nothing, if the number of idiots walking around with "degrees" is any indication.

[ArmyCowboy]

Why don't we let those without medical degrees become doctors?

[tangent4ronpaul]

I believe both Einstein and Thomas Edison were HS dropouts.

On the other hand, I've met too many that couldn't do very simple addition and subtraction - like making change. Also ran into one girl that was ABSOLUTELY sure that England was about 100 miles off the coast of Florida.

A to College Degrees, The US Gvmt requires them for any position and that goes for companies they hire, excepting contractors that work for eithor - ie: not employees. Remember a CEO of a company that did a lot of gvmt work complaining that colleges were not sending him people that could read, write and do math.

-t

[pcosmar]

Why don't we let those without medical degrees become doctors?

Damn good question.
When I was in prison, an inmate that worked in the hospital was known for keeping people alive. "Hamburger John" would not allow anyone to die when he was working.
If you had half a breath of life when brought in, he would keep you alive and patch you up.

Some doctors were trying to get him licensed. but it was never allowed.

Damn good question, Why Not?

[Anti Federalist]

Why don't we let those without medical degrees become doctors?

Because 100 years ago, the medical establishment lobbied government to create a self serving monopoly through legislative fiat?

[oyarde]

Why don't we let those without medical degrees become doctors?

Pharmacists , nurses & Doctors are some of the very few careers that need that education.

[ArmyCowboy]

Damn good question.
When I was in prison, an inmate that worked in the hospital was known for keeping people alive. "Hamburger John" would not allow anyone to die when he was working.
If you had half a breath of life when brought in, he would keep you alive and patch you up.

Some doctors were trying to get him licensed. but it was never allowed.

Damn good question, Why Not?

Standards

[tangent4ronpaul]

Because 100 years ago, the medical establishment lobbied government to create a self serving monopoly through legislative fiat?

And because the "Doc Gap" is getting increasingly larger, PA's, NP's, PP's and so on are taking on more and more a MD's tasks and workloads, so MD's are becoming less relevant.

[oyarde]

Damn good question.
When I was in prison, an inmate that worked in the hospital was known for keeping people alive. "Hamburger John" would not allow anyone to die when he was working.
If you had half a breath of life when brought in, he would keep you alive and patch you up.

Some doctors were trying to get him licensed. but it was never allowed.

Damn good question, Why Not?

Where did the " hamburger " nic come from ?

[pcosmar]

Where did the " hamburger " nic come from ?

The Patients.
Ever seen someone stabbed in the chest multiple times ?

[Anti Federalist]

Standards

And if it could be proved that you could meet the standards without bankrupting yourself by attending 8 to 10 years of med school, would that be OK?

I can't afford health care as it stands right now.

I'd be happy to pay half price to someone who completed a two or three year course of study instead.

Why is that not an option available to me?

[tangent4ronpaul]

Pharmacists , nurses & Doctors are some of the very few careers that need that education.

I know a Pharmacist that hates life. She stayed n school too long, is trained to design new drugs, but there aren't that many jobs out there to do that because of regulators and associated costs. So, she's overqualified for anything she can get a job at except supervising other Pharmacists.

In some other countries, the Pharmacist will diagnose (Instead of the Doc) and then give you the meds. Likewise, locals get trained in programs shorter than a LPN here, that are mainly by apprenticeship and even pick up how to do half a dozen operations. It works. Military medics can do a lot more than their civilian counterparts in this country.

-t

[ArmyCowboy]

And if it could be proved that you could meet the standards without bankrupting yourself by attending 8 to 10 years of med school, would that be OK?

I can't afford health care as it stands right now.

I'd be happy to pay half price to someone who completed a two or three year course of study instead.

Why is that not an option available to me?

It should be.

Have you talked to any PAs?

[Jordan]

And if it could be proved that you could meet the standards without bankrupting yourself by attending 8 to 10 years of med school, would that be OK?

I can't afford health care as it stands right now.

I'd be happy to pay half price to someone who completed a two or three year course of study instead.

Why is that not an option available to me?

Man, I am so with you on that one. Seriously, I went to the Dr's office to literally ask for a pill. Two minute conversation ensues, I leave with a script, get a bill in the mail for $150. Then I take that prescription to the pharmacy so a person who makes $120,000 a year can count to 30 for me.

I'd gladly sign a liability waiver (oh wait, legal system routinely invalidates those contracts) and make my own medical decisions. I made my own medical decision here, really, but I had to pay $150 for approval from my doctor and needed someone with a $120,000 salary to hand the medication to me.

[oyarde]

The Patients.
Ever seen someone stabbed in the chest multiple times ?

I figured .

[tangent4ronpaul]

And if it could be proved that you could meet the standards without bankrupting yourself by attending 8 to 10 years of med school, would that be OK?

I can't afford health care as it stands right now.

I'd be happy to pay half price to someone who completed a two or three year course of study instead.

Why is that not an option available to me?

Consider:
http://www.equipinternational.com/training-courses/missionary-medicine-intensive.htm
Text for this class:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Kj696NKYrfAC&dq=medical+laboratory+for+developing+countries&source=gbs_navlinks_s

http://www.gmrsltd.com/2008WildernessExpeditionMedicine.html
http://www.gmrsltd.com/2008WemPro1.html

There are others...

-t

[t0rnado]

A high school diploma indicates that a person has been subservient for 12 years and been conditioned to follow the orders of perceived authority figures. Kids with high school diplomas are less likely to revolt against their superiors in the army.

The requirement of a high school diploma to join the army devalues high school diplomas even further. If kids who are dumb enough to join the army can graduate from high school, it means nothing.

[qh4dotcom]

The army discrimination is actually a good thing...it means the discriminated have zero chance of dying in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'm sure most the families of the 5,000+ servicemen who have died there would agree with me.

[ArmyCowboy]

The army discrimination is actually a good thing...it means the discriminated have zero chance of dying in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'm sure most the families of the 5,000+ servicemen who have died there would agree with me.

While I disagree with the wars, none were drafted or were there against their will.

They volunteered.

[coastie]

While I disagree with the wars, none were drafted or were there against their will.

They volunteered.

+1776

And I'd be wiling to wager that most of those families believe their death was not in vain, that they died "protecting your/our freedom"...truly tragic.:mad:

[oyarde]

The last company I worked for would not hire anyone without a high school diploma . I tried to talk them out of it . There was a test too . After about five years , I was able to get them to drop the test .

[qh4dotcom]

While I disagree with the wars, none were drafted or were there against their will.

They volunteered.

I am aware of that...what I said is that being discriminated against in the army can be a lifesaver.