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View Full Version : Should I file for unemployment?




WilliamShrugged
12-20-2010, 06:36 PM
Let me first say this. I hate this welfare crap and don't support it, but im so tired of this shit. I make less than $400 in 2 weeks. I save my money but still struggle to pay monthly bills. I don't need it, but im tired of seeing my tax dollars(not much) go to extend these things. Im pretty sure i can apply because i work an avg. 25 hrs per week at minimum wage and live with 4 roommates. Im not saying life is hard, i have done a good job with the amount of income i bring in. I've payed of my car, make bill payments on time, don't live with my parents(im 21). I feel that im doing everything right and seeing people around my age that haven't, get help for their stupid decisions. I honestly feel like im doing something bad just for thinking about going on this.

What do you guys think of this?

Natalie
12-20-2010, 06:39 PM
//

cindy25
12-20-2010, 06:39 PM
take it-starve the beast.

every dollar you take is one less dollar for the TSA , DEA, IRS, FCC etc

Vessol
12-20-2010, 06:41 PM
Good topic on this.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?273379-In-a-society-of-legalized-theft-you-want-to-be-on-the-receiving-end.

KCIndy
12-20-2010, 06:43 PM
Ditto to Natalie and Cindy. If you're a productive citizen, you've already been bled dearly as a "reward" for your hard work. More's coming in the future.

Get a little of your own back while you can.

johnrocks
12-20-2010, 06:45 PM
I say take the low hanging fruit, as someone stated....starve the beast.

oyarde
12-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Let me first say this. I hate this welfare crap and don't support it, but im so tired of this shit. I make less than $400 in 2 weeks. I save my money but still struggle to pay monthly bills. I don't need it, but im tired of seeing my tax dollars(not much) go to extend these things. Im pretty sure i can apply because i work an avg. 25 hrs per week at minimum wage and live with 4 roommates. Im not saying life is hard, i have done a good job with the amount of income i bring in. I've payed of my car, make bill payments on time, don't live with my parents(im 21). I feel that im doing everything right and seeing people around my age that haven't, get help for their stupid decisions. I honestly feel like im doing something bad just for thinking about going on this.

What do you guys think of this?

If you are qualified , file , depending on what state you are in you or your employer or both have been paying for it . It is insurance . There is a bill that gets paid .

TNforPaul45
12-20-2010, 06:52 PM
Let me first say this. I hate this welfare crap and don't support it, but im so tired of this shit. I make less than $400 in 2 weeks. I save my money but still struggle to pay monthly bills. I don't need it, but im tired of seeing my tax dollars(not much) go to extend these things. Im pretty sure i can apply because i work an avg. 25 hrs per week at minimum wage and live with 4 roommates. Im not saying life is hard, i have done a good job with the amount of income i bring in. I've payed of my car, make bill payments on time, don't live with my parents(im 21). I feel that im doing everything right and seeing people around my age that haven't, get help for their stupid decisions. I honestly feel like im doing something bad just for thinking about going on this.

What do you guys think of this?

Since unemployment insurance is withdrawn from your paycheck anyway, filing for it is a way to get it back in the time that you need it. But do not stop looking for a better job. Build upon the experience that you already have, interview your heart out, out innovate the welfare state, and you will be back on your feet and feel great about yourself in the process, and will be able to stop unemployment withdrawls.

And when you are really doing good job wise, remember to give to someone needy from your own pocket. Be someone else's unemployment insurance and you will truly starve the beast of the milk that it really thirsts for: dependency.

Theocrat
12-20-2010, 06:55 PM
I would say no, don't file for unemployment. You're only giving more legitimacy to the system by supporting its use of funds for things which the civil government has no business being involved in. I would encourage you to support the free market, and search for jobs out there, even if they are "less desirable" jobs like working in fast food, janitorial services, etc. They're decent ways of earning wages, and you'll feel much better each day knowing that you worked hard for your money, and you didn't just sit at home everyday waiting for a government check. It will make you feel like a loser, after awhile. Married guys who receive unemployment usually feel less of themselves from being on it for a long time.

Natalie
12-20-2010, 06:55 PM
//

axiomata
12-20-2010, 07:04 PM
Yes.

Perhaps you could assuage gilt by making a commitment to give more to charity once you get back on your feet.

ForeverAlone
12-20-2010, 07:17 PM
Do it man. File for whatever benefit you can, as long as it benefits you. I know that you don't make much, but make sure you get more in unemployment than you do at work. Like I said in the thread Vessol mentioned, in a society of legalized theft, you want to be on the receiving end. Who wants to be the one holding the short end of the stick? No one. Until these programs are eradicated, it makes no sense not to take advantage of every benefit you can get your hands on. If you don't, someone else surely will, real talk.

Another thing to consider. You said you are tired of paying taxes. However, if you are only making $400 every two weeks, you will probably get all your tax dollars back. Real talk bro. When I was your age and not working full time and working just a little more than minimum wage, I pretty much got all my tax dollars back. If you wait til April, you may be surprised with a large tax return. Knowing that, I would still take advantage of any government benefit you can get your hands on. I make significantly more than you (and significantly less than most people) yet I would still try to get them gubmint dollars bro.

I really wish I could find a part time job as a laboratory technician that payed under the table. Because if I add that to my regular salary, working 12-13/hr tax free would be equivalent to me working 16-17/hr with "Da Man" watching over me.

LIGHTBULB!

Let's start an organization of bartering citizens. Fuck the feds. How about a social network of people doing favors in return for favors. In other words, "I fix your dishwasher, you babysit my kids for a week. I setup your computer network, you let me borrow your lawnmower for 3 weekends." Shit like that. You feel me? I'm sure that the Feds would crack down eventually, but every step they take to crack down on these seemingly harmless transactions will only enrage the public more.

Anyways, this barter community would make some money. I want some of that.

Who got dem computer skillz?

squarepusher
12-20-2010, 07:18 PM
you work 25 hours a week and want unemployment?
I think you are thinking of welfare/SNAPS

oyarde
12-20-2010, 07:19 PM
Do it man. File for whatever benefit you can, as long as it benefits you. I know that you don't make much, but make sure you get more in unemployment than you do at work. Like I said in the thread Vessol mentioned, in a society of legalized theft, you want to be on the receiving end. Who wants to be the one holding the short end of the stick? No one. Until these programs are eradicated, it makes no sense not to take advantage of every benefit you can get your hands on. If you don't, someone else surely will, real talk.

Another thing to consider. You said you are tired of paying taxes. However, if you are only making $400 every two weeks, you will probably get all your tax dollars back. Real talk bro. When I was your age and not working full time and working just a little more than minimum wage, I pretty much got all my tax dollars back. If you wait til April, you may be surprised with a large tax return. Knowing that, I would still take advantage of any government benefit you can get your hands on. I make significantly more than you (and significantly less than most people) yet I would still try to get them gubmint dollars bro.

I really wish I could find a part time job as a laboratory technician that payed under the table. Because if I add that to my regular salary, working 12-13/hr tax free would be equivalent to me working 16-17/hr with "Da Man" watching over me.

LIGHTBULB!

Let's start an organization of bartering citizens. Fuck the feds. How about a social network of people doing favors in return for favors. In other words, "I fix your dishwasher, you babysit my kids for a week. I setup your computer network, you let me borrow your lawnmower for 3 weekends." Shit like that. You feel me? I'm sure that the Feds would crack down eventually, but every step they take to crack down on these seemingly harmless transactions will only enrage the public more.

Anyways, this barter community would make some money. I want some of that.

Who got dem computer skillz?

This is one program , he or his employer have already been paying for .

Zippyjuan
12-20-2010, 07:23 PM
Elgiblity Requirements for Unemployment in Nevada: http://detr.state.nv.us/esd%20pages/ui%20eligibility.htm

Unemployment Eligibility

Individuals who are considered out of work through no fault of their own may be eligible to receive unemployment insurance benefits.

Minimum qualifications for eligibility include, but are not limited to:
1. Sufficient earnings within the base period of a claim to qualify monetarily for benefits;
2. Must be wholly unemployed or employed less than full-time and have earnings less than their weekly entitlement;
3. Must be found to be out of work through no fault of their own;
4. Must be available to seek and accept work customary to their normal occupation;
5. Must be physically and mentally able to work at the time they initiate a claim for benefits; and,
6. Must not refuse suitable work when offered.



These are explained in greater detail at the link.

Have you recently been laid off (not fired) or had your hours at work reduced? If you are working and have usually gotten around 25 hours a week, you might not be elgible.

A person must be either wholly unemployed or be working a reduced schedule due to insufficient hours to be considered unemployed. Persons on a leave of absence, individuals receiving worker's compensation and commission salespersons working full-time but not earning commissions due to lack of sales are not considered unemployed. Also, individuals who are self-employed do not meet the definition of unemployed, unless the self-employment is casual in nature and can be worked at the same time as a full-time job in the person's customary occupation.




In order to be determined to be out of work through no fault of their own, a person must be laid off, discharged (fired) for reasons other than misconduct as defined under law, or quit for reasons meeting the test of good cause under the law.

Southron
12-20-2010, 07:27 PM
No. Not if you are single and have no one to support but yourself.

KCIndy
12-20-2010, 07:29 PM
LIGHTBULB!

Let's start an organization of bartering citizens. Fuck the feds. How about a social network of people doing favors in return for favors. In other words, "I fix your dishwasher, you babysit my kids for a week. I setup your computer network, you let me borrow your lawnmower for 3 weekends." Shit like that. You feel me? I'm sure that the Feds would crack down eventually, but every step they take to crack down on these seemingly harmless transactions will only enrage the public more.

Anyways, this barter community would make some money. I want some of that.

Who got dem computer skillz?


http://www.barterquest.com/

http://www.tradeaway.com/

http://www.swapace.com/


I'm sure there are more. And yeah, it's a good idea.

WilliamShrugged
12-20-2010, 07:33 PM
Have you recently been laid off (not fired) or had your hours at work reduced? If you are working and have usually gotten around 25 hours a week, you might not be elgible.

My hours have not been reduced that much, this has been a part time job from the get go. So it looks as if i can't. Oh well. I guess i'll continue to be very frugal and just continue to educate myself so when things get better(hopefully) i'll be very marketable.

ForeverAlone
12-20-2010, 07:37 PM
http://www.barterquest.com/

http://www.tradeaway.com/

http://www.swapace.com/


I'm sure there are more. And yeah, it's a good idea.

God dammit!

I say that jokingly. I knew that somebody had to have thought of this before. But how about something that could become ebay successful. Maybe it's a pipe dream. Realistically, I don't have the capital or computer-technological know-how to start a company like this.

guitarlifter
12-20-2010, 08:11 PM
Never compromise. Not even in the face of bankruptcy. Don't encourage unconstitutional welfare laws by participating in them. Actions speak louder than words. If a man says one thing, but does another, what should you believe are his values? Even if you say that you don't believe in unemployment or welfare, but you participate in it, then you believe in unemployment and welfare. "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." By standing by freedom unwaveringly, we shall show people what we're about. I'm 21 as well, and I refused unemployment within the past year despite my father screaming his head off at me because of my principles that it is wrong to steal from others through forced charity.

DamianTV
12-20-2010, 08:27 PM
Let me first say this. I hate this welfare crap and don't support it, but im so tired of this shit. I make less than $400 in 2 weeks. I save my money but still struggle to pay monthly bills. I don't need it, but im tired of seeing my tax dollars(not much) go to extend these things. Im pretty sure i can apply because i work an avg. 25 hrs per week at minimum wage and live with 4 roommates. Im not saying life is hard, i have done a good job with the amount of income i bring in. I've payed of my car, make bill payments on time, don't live with my parents(im 21). I feel that im doing everything right and seeing people around my age that haven't, get help for their stupid decisions. I honestly feel like im doing something bad just for thinking about going on this.

What do you guys think of this?

Yeah, you are getting the short end of the stick. Here is a bill. This is YOUR share of money we spent before you were even born. Nice legacy huh? Yeah, I think you should at least try to file, although they will just give you the run around as much as they possibly can.

TheeJoeGlass
12-20-2010, 09:54 PM
Play the system because the system will play you.

Philhelm
12-20-2010, 11:14 PM
I've never felt guilty about receiving money from the government. While I've never had to get food stamps, welfare, or unemployment, I did benefit from the GI Bill. My rationale is that I am only playing the game by the corrupt rules that are set in place. I'll vote for less taxation (preferably none) whenever I can in the meantime. I've once had someone insinuate that I was a hypocrite, but my military benefits were part of a lawful contract, whcih is a bit different than some of the welfare programs. I agree with the other posters; the game is rigged, so don't shoot yourself in the foot if you don't have to. It's not hypocritical, so long as you continue to vote or advocate against this nonsense. Also, if you had paid money into the system, then you are only getting your money back.

pahs1994
12-21-2010, 12:08 AM
Take it, I am gettin laid off for a few months starting in january and i have no problem reclaiming some of my tax money. I have paid way more then i will ever get in return. It is the people who never pay into the system their entire lives but get killer benefits that can goto hell

mport1
12-21-2010, 12:14 AM
To steal an analogy from Mark of Free Talk Live, if a robber steals your money and then goes to the center of town and starts handing it out to people, would it be wrong to take it? I don't think so, and I'm an anarcho-capitalist.

FSP-Rebel
12-21-2010, 12:23 AM
To steal an analogy from Mark of Free Talk Live, if a robber steals your money and then goes to the center of town and starts handing it out to people, would it be wrong to take it? I don't think so, and I'm an anarcho-capitalist.


and Mark is a genius. So take and run.

guitarlifter
12-21-2010, 12:58 AM
To steal an analogy from Mark of Free Talk Live, if a robber steals your money and then goes to the center of town and starts handing it out to people, would it be wrong to take it? I don't think so, and I'm an anarcho-capitalist.

I think it depends on whether or not one would get more from the pot than he has already put in. We, as libertarians, do not believe in the welfare state and want it abolished, yes, but we must be careful in our participation in it so as to not violate our own beliefs.

Let's reword that analogy a little differently.

If a robber steals 100 dollars of your money and then goes to the center of town with other peoples' money as well and starts handing out to people, would it be wrong to take more than 100 dollars of that money, even if it was under the assumption that the robber would come back and steal more? I think so, and I'm an anarcho-capitalist as well.

Under the specific circumstances, it would be morally regrettable (because one is participating in a program that one believes is morally detestable), but still morally permissible to apply for unemployment from the government and accept money from the program so long as you receive no more than you gave to the government. The guy's only 21 years old. He probably couldn't have paid that much in taxes after the returns every year, but regardless of how much he's paid in taxes, it would be morally wrong to collect on more than he's paid in taxes.

There's rebuttal to this argument, and it is that one can take more money than they have put into the government because they are going to eventually take more of it anyway. My counterargument is that one cannot collect on money until it is stolen via taxes because the government has not given up its moral right to have any more money collected by oneself until it takes more from oneself. Basically, it is theft to take an amount of money that totals more than you have ever given to the government over time.

If you've been taxed, say, $10,000 dollars from the government as of 2010, then you are entitled to collect $10,000 dollars and no more until the government takes more. A bank cannot take money from your account for no reason except that they are assuming that you are going to are going to be charged in the future. They can only collect charges from you until you actually break the contract like overdraft. Even if you do eventually make an overdraft, it was still considered theft for them to have taken the money from you with such an assumption. It would be just as wrong, or even more wrong to never commit an overdraft, and have the travesty of having money taken from oneself with the assumption that one would commit an overdraft.

RonPaulwillWin
12-21-2010, 02:09 AM
My company folded in 2008, didn't file. Decided to start my own business. I'm pissed now that I didn't file. Could have had some free cash for these last 2 years. Might have been able to take more ski trips like some of my unemployed friends do.

mport1
12-21-2010, 03:35 AM
I think it depends on whether or not one would get more from the pot than he has already put in. We, as libertarians, do not believe in the welfare state and want it abolished, yes, but we must be careful in our participation in it so as to not violate our own beliefs.

Let's reword that analogy a little differently.

If a robber steals 100 dollars of your money and then goes to the center of town with other peoples' money as well and starts handing out to people, would it be wrong to take more than 100 dollars of that money, even if it was under the assumption that the robber would come back and steal more? I think so, and I'm an anarcho-capitalist as well.

Under the specific circumstances, it would be morally regrettable (because one is participating in a program that one believes is morally detestable), but still morally permissible to apply for unemployment from the government and accept money from the program so long as you receive no more than you gave to the government. The guy's only 21 years old. He probably couldn't have paid that much in taxes after the returns every year, but regardless of how much he's paid in taxes, it would be morally wrong to collect on more than he's paid in taxes.

There's rebuttal to this argument, and it is that one can take more money than they have put into the government because they are going to eventually take more of it anyway. My counterargument is that one cannot collect on money until it is stolen via taxes because the government has not given up its moral right to have any more money collected by oneself until it takes more from oneself. Basically, it is theft to take an amount of money that totals more than you have ever given to the government over time.

If you've been taxed, say, $10,000 dollars from the government as of 2010, then you are entitled to collect $10,000 dollars and no more until the government takes more. A bank cannot take money from your account for no reason except that they are assuming that you are going to are going to be charged in the future. They can only collect charges from you until you actually break the contract like overdraft. Even if you do eventually make an overdraft, it was still considered theft for them to have taken the money from you with such an assumption. It would be just as wrong, or even more wrong to never commit an overdraft, and have the travesty of having money taken from oneself with the assumption that one would commit an overdraft.

Very good points and I would have to agree. The problem is it is hard to quantify the exact theft adding all the different forms of taxation paid in the past.

What would you say about the extra costs born by the individual because of things like regulations? While not directly stealing from the individual, regulations imposed throughout the market mean that individuals must spend more of their money for goods and have their standard of living is drastically reduced by this and all the after effects of decreased wealth creation. Could this be considered as stealing from him or not since it is not a direct theft of his property?

Southron
12-21-2010, 06:55 AM
There's rebuttal to this argument, and it is that one can take more money than they have put into the government because they are going to eventually take more of it anyway. My counterargument is that one cannot collect on money until it is stolen via taxes because the government has not given up its moral right to have any more money collected by oneself until it takes more from oneself. Basically, it is theft to take an amount of money that totals more than you have ever given to the government over time.

My problem is at what point are you no longer stealing "your own money" but from others via inflation? I suspect that your money has long been spent. Of course those aren't your exact same dollars that you are stealing back.

Is it morally permissible to accept stolen goods from a thief because he stole from you on some prior occasion?

Maybe I would see it differently if there were children involved and they were going to starve.