Barney Frank says heirs didnt earn their inheitatance...

[JustinTime]

... so government siezure is kosher.

http://www.breitbart.tv/barney-frank-death-tax-not-punishment-heirs-didnt-do-anything-to-deserve-inheritance/

Ok, so they didnt work for the wealth, but neither did you, Mish-taw Fwank, so what gives you the right to take it?

Let the people who earned the wealth leave it to who they want, which is likely their children and have the government stay out of it.

Seriously, can you believe this theiving scumbag twists what he is doing to justify this? Can you beleive millions in this country think this attitude is acceptable?

I do not know how we can maintain what little freedoms we have, much less win back all the freedom we have lost in this society.

[cswake]

Children don't work for their wealth when they are under 18! We shouldn't allow parents to directly take care of them and instead hand the funds to the government so there is fair distribution that does not result in any unfair advantages.

[amy31416]

That's funny...I put $15k into my mom's house to get it re-sided and have the windows replaced. I also painted, did landscaping, fixed her furnace, phone lines, ripped up old carpeting, tore down ugly-ass wallpaper, repaired/replaced ducts, installed a cooktop, paid her utility bills after she quit working for a terrible company, among many other things.

Probably more actual work than that asshole's done in his entire life.

[sailingaway]

But people who did earn it want to take care of their families.

On a social policy level in the back of my mind a little voice is saying SOME level might be too big because it leaves too little for the rest of the world to compete for, but even if I listened to that little voice over the 'but it's still stealing', voice, we'd be talking about at least hundreds of millions, not 5 million.

Mind you, it should be divyd up in a way that leaves out the government, even if large estates were broken up past some point. Redistribution wouldn't be the issue, restriction on alienation would be.

Not sure how you'd do that.

[t0rnado]

Barney should just do the country a favor and join the military now that it's legal for him to do so.

[specsaregood]

tore down ugly-ass wallpaper

Probably more actual work than that asshole's done in his entire life.

If it was anything like tearing down the wallpaper in my MIL's house....that statement is most assuredly true. That stuff is evil....

[amy31416]

If it was anything like tearing down the wallpaper in my MIL's house....that statement is most assuredly true. That stuff is evil....

I will never, ever wallpaper anything...ever! Used a steamer, some gloop, scrapers, razor blades....nobody who's had to remove that stuff would ever contemplate using it again, unless they're a masochist.

In one room, there was THREE layers of wallpaper. I'm sure that the bottom layer was from the 50's--it was kinda neat for about 2 minutes.

[noxagol]

Wallpaper is the devil and looks terrible.

[specsaregood]

I will never, ever wallpaper anything...ever! Used a steamer, some gloop, scrapers, razor blades....nobody who's had to remove that stuff would ever contemplate using it again, unless they're a masochist.
In one room, there was THREE layers of wallpaper. I'm sure that the bottom layer was from the 50's--it was kinda neat for about 2 minutes.

We must have worked on the same room. :)
Although, upon contemplation it was the people putting up the multiple layers instead of tearing it down that were the smart ones eh? You know you are in trouble when you are 1/4 of the way into the job and you begin measuring your progress in terms of ft/hour.

For those about to embark on that journey....word to the wise: it is easier and perhaps better to just shellac over the wallpaper and paint over it.....trust me.

[amy31416]

Specs, you're absolutely correct. But there was this one room where the wallpaper had this velvety design on it--was not an option!

Either way, we should see if good old Barney has ever inherited anything.

ETA: Apparently Barney is also unfamiliar with farming families, where the kids have been working the land since they first knew how to walk. I knew a family like that--you tell me that they didn't work for it. I'm sure that's outside his realm of experience though.

[noxagol]

If it is that bad, tear it down and put up new drywall.

[specsaregood]

Either way, we should see if good old Barney has ever inherited anything.

I'd prefer we sneak into his house while he is away and wallpaper every square inch of it. But yeah, I guess your suggestion works as well. :) And back ontopic.

[amy31416]

If it is that bad, tear it down and put up new drywall.

That's beyond my "expertise" and probably beyond my physical strength limits (and one of the rooms has arched ceilings.) Sounds like a nightmare.


I'd prefer we sneak into his house while he is away and wallpaper every square inch of it. But yeah, I guess your suggestion works as well. :) And back ontopic.

A large floral pattern would be perfect for him. I like the way you think. :p

[noxagol]

On topic, there is only one who can determine that the receiver of something given has earned it or not, and this entity is of course the giver. Since ALL value, (yes any and all value whatsoever) is subjective, what one considers not earning another could easily consider earning. Thus, the only fair and sane way of handling such an instance is to look at it from the perspective of said property owner. If the owner of property in question decides to give his or her property to another, then they obviously feel that the person receiving the property has earned it. It can be no other way if you wish for sanity and fairness to truly rule.

[noxagol]

That's beyond my "expertise" and probably beyond my physical strength limits (and one of the rooms has arched ceilings.) Sounds like a nightmare.



A large floral pattern would be perfect for him. I like the way you think. :p

Drywall is stupid easy to put up. And for arches, all you do is cut slits in the back of the drywall down to the paper every inch or whatever increment gives the desired arch. This will allow the drywall to 'bend'. Then two people put it into place, starting from the top, with a third securing it to the framework. Use joint compound or plaster to smooth the surface. And yes, drywall is also stupid heavy >_<

[HOLLYWOOD]

Shoe on the other foot Barney...

Who creates all the Inflation of why estates increase so much? The FEDERAL RESERVE and Government. Partners in crime, inflation are the hidden taxes... how about all those property taxes over the years? Luxury taxes paid on purchases above the sales taxes. The cost of upkeep and maintenance of all your possessions. The game is purposely increased in complexity for a reason, to take more of your life and less for your family. Government also wants a cashless society for a reason, so it may track all transactions and assets of your estate.


That's why the .gov BLS has reformulated the lies of inflation measurement upon the people/society. Government at all levels loves inflation, that's why it uses grand complex schemes of the FEDERAL RESERVE and WASHINGTON DC. Frank is one of those shills to muddy the waters of the true gameplan(s).

[amy31416]

Drywall is stupid easy to put up. And for arches, all you do is cut slits in the back of the drywall down to the paper every inch or whatever increment gives the desired arch. This will allow the drywall to 'bend'. Then two people put it into place, starting from the top, with a third securing it to the framework. Use joint compound or plaster to smooth the surface. And yes, drywall is also stupid heavy >_<

Well I'm planning on buying a cheap house on lots of property at some point in the future, maybe I'll experiment there, as I'll probably need to gut it--but this house, nawww.

Oh, and that makes perfect sense how they do the curves with drywall--but I'm looking at having to knock out actual plaster if I did that--and anyways, finished ripping off the wallpaper quite a while ago, so it's all good.

[noxagol]

Plaster is also ew. It usually has tons of wooden lading behind it which is what holds the plaster together. The house I grew up in had this and it was always a pain to tear down the walls when we were redoing them because there is so much dust and wood to take care of. Not to mention the lading wasn't finished at all so even with gloves you would get monster splinters every half hour.

[AxisMundi]

I will never, ever wallpaper anything...ever! Used a steamer, some gloop, scrapers, razor blades....nobody who's had to remove that stuff would ever contemplate using it again, unless they're a masochist.

In one room, there was THREE layers of wallpaper. I'm sure that the bottom layer was from the 50's--it was kinda neat for about 2 minutes.

Wall paper can indeed be evil, but I found ORIGINAL wall paper in the ol' family homestead which was built near the turn of the last century.

Managed to retrieve some good sized samples, of the matching border as well, and sold it to a historical renovation company for them to reproduce.

Not a large sum, but it paid for the equipment rentals and paint. :D

[Agorism]

It's not that they didn't earn their inheritance that is the issue here. The great rich families serve as an alternate source of power to the U.S. government itself.

That's why Wilson\FDR wanted to destroy them to make sure everyone was under their control.

[georgiaboy]

So Mr. Frank, based on your logic, do welfare recipients or the unemployed earn their taxpayer funded paychecks?

[Agorism]

The government will just waste the money, and use most of it line the the pockets of people like Barney Frank.

We need alternate power centers to the government.

[oyarde]

That's funny...I put $15k into my mom's house to get it re-sided and have the windows replaced. I also painted, did landscaping, fixed her furnace, phone lines, ripped up old carpeting, tore down ugly-ass wallpaper, repaired/replaced ducts, installed a cooktop, paid her utility bills after she quit working for a terrible company, among many other things.

Probably more actual work than that asshole's done in his entire life.

The wall paper alone was more than that ass has done .

[Ethek]

There is a tradeoff between time invested in amassing a nestegg for your heirs and investing time with your errs. Not the governments place to lay claim to that.

[oyarde]

Specs, you're absolutely correct. But there was this one room where the wallpaper had this velvety design on it--was not an option!

Either way, we should see if good old Barney has ever inherited anything.

ETA: Apparently Barney is also unfamiliar with farming families, where the kids have been working the land since they first knew how to walk. I knew a family like that--you tell me that they didn't work for it. I'm sure that's outside his realm of experience though.

I still have a few acres of my family farm . It is the one thing I will never sell. Sweat and blood . The particular pc. , I have is where we grew produce .

[oyarde]

So Mr. Frank, based on your logic, do welfare recipients or the unemployed earn their taxpayer funded paychecks?

He has no logic.

[amy31416]

I still have a few acres of my family farm . It is the one thing I will never sell. Sweat and blood . The particular pc. , I have is where we grew produce .

Good. If I had property like that, I'd never sell either. When my dad's family came over in the 1700's, they ended up owning a lot of property--I guess most of it was split up and sold over the years. Still have the family name all over some things in that little town though...so it'd be kinda nifty to buy there, but I don't think I'll be staying in state.

[Blueskies]

If we could get rid of all the other taxes and just have 100% inheritance tax, I would be all for that.

Frank actually has a point. Compared to something like the income tax, the inheritance tax is most fair.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

They sure as hell "earned" it a lot more than the government.

[Blueskies]

They sure as hell "earned" it a lot more than the government.

Don't disagree at all.

But if we both accept that we are not anarchists (leaving the anarchists out of the discussion), then the government needs some funding to operate. The inheritance tax is the most fair method of acquiring said funding.

[oyarde]

If we could get rid of all the other taxes and just have 100% inheritance tax, I would be all for that.

Frank actually has a point. Compared to something like the income tax, the inheritance tax is most fair.

100 % ? no way , I think most people would agree to some percentage though as a tradeoff to be rid of other taxes . Considering all other current taxes , inheritance tax is criminal .

[Blueskies]

100 % ? no way , I think most people would agree to some percentage though as a tradeoff to be rid of other taxes . Considering all other current taxes , inheritance tax is criminal .

I'm just assuming that 100% is the number it would take to offset all the other taxes. I have no idea of the real number.

Inheritance tax is the best tax because on an economic level, it has very few negative externalities. Income tax can encourage less work, sales tax disproportionately harms the poor, tarrifs have a host of issues, sin taxes punish people who happen to enjoy things society doesn't condone.

Don't even consider it an inheritance tax--think of it as a death tax. The government only taxes you when you're dead and gone.

[ababba]

They are discussing policy for an estate tax, which taxes the amount of money people die with.

This is different than an inheritance tax, which taxes the amount of money people are given by those who die.

So even if you take Frank at his word, this is an argument for taxing inheritances not estates. Imagine if a person with 300 million gives one dollar to everyone in the US. Under an estate tax, this would be heavily taxed. Under an inheritance tax, it wouldn't be taxed as much. Clearly Frank's logic would suggest lower taxes on this than someone giving 10 million to a single person.

[angelatc]

There is a tradeoff between time invested in amassing a nestegg for your heirs and investing time with your errs. Not the governments place to lay claim to that.

It's a pretty common assertion from the liberal community. They are content being the people to decide who deserves wealth. The underlying philosophy is, of course, that all money is public money.

[acptulsa]

The primary problem with the inheritance tax is it's another one size fits all law. And it works for Monsanto, which (as we all know) owns the government. How? Simple--no family farmer can afford to pay such a chunk of tax, and that means land for sale in the Breadbasket of the World. Monsanto just loves that.

And Oscar Wilde agrees about wallpaper. He spent his last days complaining about the paper in his death room. Finally, he turned to the wall and said, 'One of us has got to go.' Those were his last words.

[teacherone]

what???

passing on your estate to your children IS what parents work and save for--the knowledge that your children will have a better life than you did with better opportunities using both the education and the material resources you have given them.

inheritance allows successive generations to raise their living status, their class status.

it is a disgusting crime for the government to intervene in a solemn act, the death of a parent, and rob them of the gift they had labored for their children.


I'm just assuming that 100% is the number it would take to offset all the other taxes. I have no idea of the real number.

Inheritance tax is the best tax because on an economic level, it has very few negative externalities. Income tax can encourage less work, sales tax disproportionately harms the poor, tarrifs have a host of issues, sin taxes punish people who happen to enjoy things society doesn't condone.

Don't even consider it an inheritance tax--think of it as a death tax. The government only taxes you when you're dead and gone.

[amy31416]

I'm just assuming that 100% is the number it would take to offset all the other taxes. I have no idea of the real number.

Inheritance tax is the best tax because on an economic level, it has very few negative externalities. Income tax can encourage less work, sales tax disproportionately harms the poor, tarrifs have a host of issues, sin taxes punish people who happen to enjoy things society doesn't condone.

Don't even consider it an inheritance tax--think of it as a death tax. The government only taxes you when you're dead and gone.

Okay, so here's the thing:

1. You're agreeing that, upon death, the gov't can confiscate everything--or most everything. If you're semi-paranoid, this gives the gov't incentive to kill you, or hasten your death, or manipulate retirement age to keep you working until you drop dead.
2. How does a poor, or even middle class family bury their dead?
3. More incentive to transfer titles to all valuables/property prior to death and/or hide assets.
4. What if the elderly mom of a handicapped child dies--does the handicapped person become a ward of the state? How about underage children? Are they kicked out into the street?
5. Many people leave their life's work to specific people/organizations for a reason--preservation is one of them.
6. How about a married couple that have a home, but only one person's name is on it.
7. Red tape-the gov't would be in the business of seizing everything like a bunch of vultures, then selling it off.
8. How soon after death does the gov't get their cut? How soon do they show up to confiscate the property and valuables? What if they don't get the money/items they expected--do they go after a dead person?

If I was elderly and had children that I liked, or a particular person or foundation...I'd strike a deal with them where I'd put everything I owned into their name and write up a legal agreement that they would not kick me out or take the property for the remainder of my life. And so would a heck of a lot of other people. Better yet, I'd keep as many of my assets off the books as possible.

I like all the the ways to work around it so the government doesn't get squat from me, but that's also a reason that it'll never happen.

[Blueskies]

what???

passing on your estate to your children IS what parents work and save for--the knowledge that your children will have a better life than you did with better opportunities using both the education and the material resources you have given them.

inheritance allows successive generations to raise their living status, their class status.

it is a disgusting crime for the government to intervene in a solemn act, the death of a parent, and rob them of the gift they had labored for their children.

Look, I'm not saying that the estate tax is just, it isn't. No tax is just.

BUT, if we agree that you need some tax, then the inheritance tax is more just than others.

Simply, I would rather the government take all of what I have when I'm dead and gone rather than take half of what I earn while I'm alive to enjoy it. I think it more just to deprive me of the freedom of passing down my wealth then to deprive me of my freedom to enjoy my wealth while I am alive.

[Blueskies]

Okay, so here's the thing:

1. You're agreeing that, upon death, the gov't can confiscate everything--or most everything. If you're semi-paranoid, this gives the gov't incentive to kill you, or hasten your death, or manipulate retirement age to keep you working until you drop dead.
2. How does a poor, or even middle class family bury their dead?
3. More incentive to transfer titles to all valuables/property prior to death and/or hide assets.
4. What if the elderly mom of a handicapped child dies--does the handicapped person become a ward of the state? How about underage children? Are they kicked out into the street?
5. Many people leave their life's work to specific people/organizations for a reason--preservation is one of them.
6. How about a married couple that have a home, but only one person's name is on it.
7. Red tape-the gov't would be in the business of seizing everything like a bunch of vultures, then selling it off.
8. How soon after death does the gov't get their cut? How soon do they show up to confiscate the property and valuables? What if they don't get the money/items they expected--do they go after a dead person?

If I was elderly and had children that I liked, or a particular person or foundation...I'd strike a deal with them where I'd put everything I owned into their name and write up a legal agreement that they would not kick me out or take the property for the remainder of my life. And so would a heck of a lot of other people. Better yet, I'd keep as many of my assets off the books as possible.

I like all the the ways to work around it so the government doesn't get squat from me, but that's also a reason that it'll never happen.

I won't address this post and don't need to. All you've done is brought up a bunch of weasley "what if" scenarios. No system is perfect.

[teacherone]

the estate tax is PURE SOCIAL MARXISM.

it is to guarantee that NO ONE rises above anybody else in the social ladder, that the wealth one accrues while living is dispersed to the "less fortunate."

this kills the profit motive entirely, what's the point of saving and building wealth if it is stolen from you upon death?

you cannot rise up the social ranks when there are none. the station you were born in is the station you will die in. you will not leave behind an inheritance for your children, you will not imagine a better future for them or hope that their lives will be better than yours-- there is no better, there is no worse, there is only equality.

marx's wet dream.

[oyarde]

the estate tax is PURE SOCIAL MARXISM.

it is to guarantee that NO ONE rises above anybody else in the social ladder, that the wealth one accrues while living is dispersed to the "less fortunate."

this kills the profit motive entirely, what's the point of saving and building wealth if it is stolen from you upon death?

you cannot rise up the social ranks when there are none. the station you were born in is the station you will die in. you will not leave behind an inheritance for your children, you will not imagine a better future for them or hope that their lives will be better than yours-- there is no better, there is no worse, there is only equality.

marx's wet dream.

Looks like you have it .

[MozoVote]

I can see what BlueSkies is saying. While all taxes stink, I can probably stomach the estate tax ahead of the income tax, or the captial "gains" tax. An inducement for people at Warren Buffet's level to put their wealth into foundations makes some sense - it's better than government vultures swooping in and deciding what do to with it.

To some extent, it's anti-Liberty to be in favor of an aristocratic class that hoards wealth for generations.

As for the wallpaper discussion.... sometime's it's easier to just re-sheetrock right over it...

[specsaregood]

Am I gonna be the first to suggest that this might be related to him being a homosexual and thus not have any children to leave something to?

[JustinTime]

To some extent, it's anti-Liberty to be in favor of an aristocratic class that hoards wealth for generations.

Bullshit. How does it take any liberty from anyone to allow people to leave their wealth to whoever they damn well please?

[amy31416]

Am I gonna be the first to suggest that this might be related to him being a homosexual and thus not have any children to leave something to?

Huh. Hadn't thought of that.

I wonder if he has a will where he leaves things to his partner? Still wondering, and willing to bet, that he inherited something from his parents, if they've passed on.

There's got to be a public record of that, I'd imagine.

[jkr]

Am I gonna be the first to suggest that this might be related to him being a homosexual and thus not have any children to leave something to?

second.

he probably calls people like me "breeders"


he is a sterile seed. why should i listen to him about something he has apparently chosen not to do???

[oyarde]

Am I gonna be the first to suggest that this might be related to him being a homosexual and thus not have any children to leave something to?

Nah , I think he would still be a socialist commie who wants to spend all of YOUR money , even if he was straight .

[awake]

If it ain't nailed down.... The propertied classes are going to be mercilessly expropriated, and with more expropriation they call to the expropriators for protection from it, from which more must be expropriated. Every property owner is a moving target. The beast is hungry, Barny needs to make rent too.

Inheritance taxes are Machiavellian; I paraphrase; leave the heirs just enough that they do not revolt, for a man remembers his inheritance stolen much longer than the death of his own father.

[MelissaWV]

second.

he probably calls people like me "breeders"


he is a sterile seed. why should i listen to him about something he has apparently chosen not to do???

You breeder sorts get all kinds of money from me, and I'll never have a kiddo of my own. Think on it for awhile, and think about who gets what breaks fastest, and where most of the money goes as far as entitlements ;)

* * *

As for not having worked for it... people of a certain generation (curiously, most of us were called slackers and often still are characterized as such!) are winding up having to care for our parents, and sometimes even our parents' parents. That care does not always involve the person, but can involve the affairs and property, and untangling years of debt, ancient boxes of receipts and other paperwork, fending off the ruthless who love to prey on the elderly, and all but putting one's life on hold for extended periods of time. Some are trying to do all of that while raising the next generation, which can require them to work a regular job, spend time with the children, do some housework, run at least two households, etc.. What it amounts to is a great mountain of wageless work.

What it also amounts to is money that has already been taxed, in most cases, being taxed again just because a different member of the family is holding it. The income my parents earned, for instance, has already been taxed when it was earned. Hell, it was sometimes taxed twice because of screwy retirement plans/laws that made no sense. The house is constantly taxed. Vehicles? Taxed. I could make a huge, long list, but I'm assuming we're all adults and realize what I mean. If they kicked the bucket tomorrow, and I were to continue driving the vehicle I contributed a great deal of money to but that happens to be in my dad's name, I would have to pay money on that. Again. I would also have to pay taxes on dad's actual car. Again. I might even have some kind of luxury tax I haven't looked into because it's a NICE car. The house would be another disaster. Everything in it, the bank accounts, even the damned golf cart... taxed again.

No, I don't think that's exactly fair to anyone involved. It's yet another face of the same old problem with taxation in the first place.





PS - fabric softener can work well on some kinds of wallpaper, but not the really thick, fabric kind from the 60's and 50's. That stuff was made to withstand nuclear attack.

[dannno]

he probably calls people like me "breeders"


Hah, ya you are correct, gay people do often call straight people "breeders"

[agitator]

Own nothing, control everything.

[Crickett]

As long as the Rockefellers et.al. do not opt out, there could be a silver lining in this horrible bill.

[Freedom 4 all]

This is ridiculous. Heirs may not have worked for it, but they have more right to it than anyone else.

[osan]

Wallpaper is the devil and looks terrible.
This.

And calling Barney Frank a cock sucker, while true, would probably be taken with no small measure of pride by the good senator.

Sometimes life is so very unfair.

[Lucille]

... so government siezure is kosher.

http://www.breitbart.tv/barney-frank-death-tax-not-punishment-heirs-didnt-do-anything-to-deserve-inheritance/

Ok, so they didnt work for the wealth, but neither did you, Mish-taw Fwank, so what gives you the right to take it?

Let the people who earned the wealth leave it to who they want, which is likely their children and have the government stay out of it.

Seriously, can you believe this thieving scumbag twists what he is doing to justify this? Can you believe millions in this country think this attitude is acceptable?

I do not know how we can maintain what little freedoms we have, much less win back all the freedom we have lost in this society.

It really is hard to believe. Who knew the free world actually lost WWII? The filthy collectivists' coup d'état just took a little under 70 years, is all.

"Another statement about property reveals the primitive mental level of collectivists: the proposal to 'abolish inheritance of property.' [...]

What the collectivists mean, but do not say because if it were stated truthfully it would hardly appeal to any rational person, is that on the death of an owner, the government should seize whatever property he had, a piecemeal expropriation which would take in all existent property in the course of a natural lifetime. No moral or intelligible reason can be adduced why Hitler, Stalin, or any other government official should inherit the product of any man's thrift, labor and care, rather than his wife, children or whomever he wishes to have it; but that is the proposal. Death and taxes arrive hand in hand."
--Isabel Paterson (The God of the Machine - 1943)

They say it now, without shyness or remorse. And a majority of the American people embrace it.

This country is frickin' doomed!

[TNforPaul45]

Who is John Galt?

[acptulsa]

why should i listen to him about something he has apparently chosen not to do???

Well, by that logic none of us should pay any attention to any laws on the subject of labor, because there's not a single member of Congress who has chosen to work for a living.