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View Full Version : Can We all Just Revolt Please?




DisillusionedPatriot
12-18-2010, 04:28 AM
I've been thinking a lot recently about the source of government power. Obviously, it derives from the consent of the governed. Why do we not just withdraw it? Our forefathers made the pledge in pursuit of freedom, to give "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Can we not muster a spirit of the same?

Any lover of liberty must realize that compliance with tyranny serves no fruitful purpose. Why do we continue to give it our sanction? In other words: why do we follow illegitimate laws?

I believe the answer for most of us is simple - convenience, and fear. In other words, it is easier to "go along" and follow the law, or break it through subterfuge, while privately expressing disagreement and disdain than to stand publicly in support of our freedoms - at a possible cost.

We are afraid of the repercussions - stigma, jail time, possible career problems, deliberate government retribution, etc. In fact, it is only to easy to say that we will "work towards changing" the law which we deem to be incorrect. This method of thinking is both fallacious, and precarious. To accept this stance is to agree, as a supposition, that the government agency/body in question has the right at all to settle this question. Indeed it is to acknowledge their authority in the matter. People will certainly say, "oh but as we work to change it, it will be on the grounds that the law in question is unconstitutional." Alright, then why on earth would we follow it?!

I just wish, somehow, that we, as a people could be shot with a dose of courage, and I only too sadly include myself among that number. Please let us remember the origins of the American Revolution. I find the offenses of King George, enumerated so eloquently in the Declaration of Independence, to bear flagrant similarity to the humiliations suffered upon us by the federal government.

Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed. Worse still, they would both pity and condemn us. They had to fight, some in actual combat, but with all risking everything they had, to win the freedoms we so carelessly subject nowadays. We have to risk so much less. Can't we do better?

I think people should just stop following bad laws. It's so obvious, and yet we don't do it. If 1 person in North Carolina walks down a busy street smoking a bowl, he's likely to be pulled over and charged. He'd probably get fined; possibly worse. And yet the man beside him smoking a cigarette will pass by unmolested (as of now at least - I say give it twenty years and smoking will also be "regulated" or "restricted" or some such).

I've thought a hundred times about going, buying a bowl, buying that stupid "spice" chemical mess that actually makes people sick, and lighting up right in front of a cop. I mean like, literally, right in front. If I'm in a public street where smoking is allowed, he can't really do anything. But even that is so insubstantial. It serves only to highlight an absurdity rather than to take a stand on personal freedom.

Why don't we just smoke in public? I mean, honestly, if all the people smoking weed in their homes or cars went and smoked on the sidewalk instead, the cops couldn't handle it. It's the magic of collective action.

Now I don't mean to focus on weed - it's just because it's really late, and I'm really high (ARREST ME!) - because the underlying message is the same.

Why don't we all just own up to our legitimate beliefs? Why do we follow laws that we all know are wrong and know perfectly well we had no say in making. How do I know? Because no lawmaker, even an elected lawmaker, has the authority to violate my rights, endowed by my Creator, and secured to me as a citizen under the Constitution of the United States of America. Have I "the heart of a coward and the spirit of a sycophant"? I'm afraid Thomas Paine would think so. And every other great man I've respected since I can first remember.

I truly believe that the time has come, and that Americans must express, forcefully, though not with force, that we will no longer surrender our rights, nor submit to any government that wishes to subvert them.

All we have to do is stop. We do not have to be violent. We do not even have to protest. All we have to do is stop following stupid/illegitimate/unconstitutional laws.

Do we have it rough? Are our leaders so cruel, so omnipotent, so nefarious as to completely overwhelm any resistance?

No! The truth is in fact far worse - we supply our oppressors with all the power and influence they supposedly hold. Our complicity is their strength. All we need to do is withdraw it,

"To see an endless multitude of people not merely obeying, but driven to servility? Not ruled, but tyrannized over? These wretches have no wealth, no kin, nor wife nor children, not even life itself that they can call their own. They suffer plundering, wantonness, cruelty, not from an army, not from a barbarian horde, on account of whom they must shed their blood and sacrifice their lives, but from a single man; not from a Hercules nor from a Samson, but from a single little man. Too frequently this same little man is the most cowardly and effeminate in the nation, a stranger to the powder of battle and hesitant on the sands of the tournament; not only without energy to direct men by force, but with hardly enough virility to bed with a common woman! Shall we call subjection to such a leader cowardice? Shall we say that those who serve him are cowardly and faint-hearted? If two, if three, if four, do not defend themselves from the one, we might call that circumstance surprising but nevertheless conceivable. In such a case one might be justified in suspecting a lack of courage. But if a hundred, if a thousand endure the caprice of a single man, should we not rather say that they lack not the courage but the desire to rise against him, and that such an attitude indicates indifference rather than cowardice? When not a hundred, not a thousand men, but a hundred provinces, a thousand cities, a million men, refuse to assail a single man from whom the kindest treatment received is the infliction of serfdom and slavery, what shall we call that? Is it cowardice? Of course there is in every vice inevitably some limit beyond which one cannot go. Two, possibly ten, may fear one; but when a thousand, a million men, a thousand cities, fail to protect themselves against the domination of one man, this cannot be called cowardly, for cowardice does not sink to such a depth, any more than valor can be termed the effort of one individual to scale a fortress, to attack an army, or to conquer a kingdom. What monstrous vice, then, is this which does not even deserve to be called cowardice, a vice for which no term can be found vile enough, which nature herself disavows and our tongues refuse to name?
Place on one side fifty thousand armed men, and on the other the same number; let them join in battle, one side fighting to retain its liberty, the other to take it away; to which would you, at a guess, promise victory? Which men do you think would march more gallantly to combat---those who anticipate as a reward for their suffering the maintenance of their freedom, or those who cannot expect any other prize for the blows exchanged than the enslavement of others? One side will have before its eyes the blessings of the past and the hope of similar joy in the future; their thoughts will dwell less on the comparatively brief pain of battle than on what they may have to endure forever, they, their children, and all their posterity. The other side has nothing to inspire it with courage except the weak urge of greed, which fades before danger and which can never be so keen, it seems to me, that it will not be dismayed by the least drop of blood from wounds."
- Discourse on Voluntary Servitude by Etienne de La Boetie (1550s)

Paulfan05
12-18-2010, 05:01 AM
Democrats want a revolt too, but one that makes gov stronger to it can "fight the corporations"....lol

charrob
12-18-2010, 05:13 AM
Democrats want a revolt too, but one that makes gov stronger to it can "fight the corporations"....lol

-not this democrat. 10 years of war have given me a fatal dose of questioning government that i fear will never leave me.

Teaser Rate
12-18-2010, 05:43 AM
It makes sense to everyone to force the government to change by using civil disobedience, it doesn't make sense for one person to do it.

It's the same problem as trying to convince people to vote for a 3rd party; most people agree that third parties getting a lot of votes would be beneficial to the democratic system, but no one wants to be the first one to waste their vote on it.

The argument essentially boils down to Gandhi's be the change you want to see in the world.

tpreitzel
12-18-2010, 06:02 AM
Oh, wow ... what a quotation! ;) Personally, I don't want anarchy. I want the law minimal, constitutional, and as low down the political chain, i.e. closest to the individual, as possible. Essentially, we already have anarchy in our federal government, i.e. the political establishment does what it damn well pleases regardless of constraints imposed by the US Constitution. The question becomes: Can we replace anarchy with anarchy? History tells us that dictatorships follow anarchy. In other words, in order to avoid a looming dictatorship, the American people MUST be willing to follow the law again themselves and insist their leaders do likewise. The next question then becomes: What law will we follow and insist our "servants" follow at various levels of government? The final question becomes: If the law is violated, what sanctions will be applied CONSISTENTLY with no exceptions whether specified in the US Constitution or elsewhere? As a people, we simply MUST be willing to ask and answer these questions personally.

amy31416
12-18-2010, 06:14 AM
I am always revolting. Ask anyone.

MN Patriot
12-18-2010, 07:01 AM
I like the idea of a tax revolt. But we could do it legally, tell people they MUST pay their taxes, personally, by check, once a month. Then when they get tired of sending all their hard earned money to the corrupt politicians, they will be ready for some real change.

lynnf
12-18-2010, 08:44 AM
quite a list the author produces, but not nearly complete


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=240921
...

But the crises domestically and internationally are not all. "Above all," it's the arrogance, indifference, incompetence, immorality, corruption and slough of our government officials and their body politic, and the media, which are destroying the country.


...

Travlyr
12-18-2010, 08:58 AM
I like the idea of a tax revolt. But we could do it legally, tell people they MUST pay their taxes, personally, by check, once a month. Then when they get tired of sending all their hard earned money to the corrupt politicians, they will be ready for some real change.

What steps would we need to take to accomplish this task?

ArmyCowboy
12-18-2010, 09:01 AM
Perhaps the reason that there has been no revolt has something to do this the old saying, the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

robertwerden
12-18-2010, 09:07 AM
Revolts happen when newtons law comes into effect. Equal and opposite reaction. Force is only justified by force. Right now the proper reaction to the unconstitutional actions is to educate the masses of the violations being perpetrated against the constitution so that the people perpetrating them lose their jobs and are replaced by defenders of the constitution.

Not until the perpetrators demonstrate violence is violence required.

Travlyr
12-18-2010, 09:09 AM
Perhaps the reason that there has been no revolt has something to do this the old saying, the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

Sort of. Yet we know that freedom is better than tyranny. The way I see it is that most people are still doing okay. The people who have lost everything don't have the resources to revolt as survival is the most important task at hand. It's the ole boiling a frog in water trick. Freedom is lost gradually until it's too late.

pcosmar
12-18-2010, 09:23 AM
Perhaps the reason that there has been no revolt has something to do this the old saying, the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

That has been said before in different words,

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

As of yet, our numbers are few. but growing.

Things will need to get much worse before there is enough support for the resistance.

Aratus
12-18-2010, 09:34 AM
small gov't, small business GOP people stand a chance of picking up
a few more seats in the Senate & House in 2012... am just saying!!!

hazek
12-18-2010, 10:08 AM
I think it's a good idea to wait post 2012, see who gets elected and then think about it. Plus I think this will happen on it's own once enough people are starving.

Teaser Rate
12-18-2010, 10:16 AM
I think it's a good idea to wait post 2012, see who gets elected and then think about it. Plus I think this will happen on it's own once enough people are starving.

Why would such a situation ever happen ? We continuously grow more and more food on less land for less money.

JamesButabi
12-18-2010, 10:17 AM
This is the sentiment that encourages me to support the Free State Project. Ive seen the progress there that occurrs with only having ~800 people in the state and handfuls organized in each city. I can't even fathom how much change that state would have once hitting the 20,000 mark and people start to go in droves. Im not one for a violent revolt, but if im doing civil disobedience or even just activism it would surely help to have a support network. I would think thats a much more logical step than revolt.

www.freestateproject.org

pcosmar
12-18-2010, 10:29 AM
Why would such a situation ever happen ? We continuously grow more and more food on less land for less money.

When the economy crashes will people have money to buy food? Will truckers deliver it to stores when they don't get paid and have no fuel?

Not to mention the artificial manipulation of the Market.
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/leaked-cable-hike-food-prices-to-boost.html
http://www.rodale.com/genetically-modified-organisms-foods-0

:mad:

hazek
12-18-2010, 10:37 AM
Well if you are right and there's no chance of people starving, which I personally don't think is the case and I agree with pcosmar, then I can't see how there ever would come to a revolt.

As long as they have their plasma TVs and food on their tables, you won't see people in the streets.

TruckinMike
12-18-2010, 10:50 AM
...Will truckers deliver it to stores when they don't get paid and have no fuel? ...:mad:

No, but more than likely the Gov will step in and force companies to comply if necessary. But I don't think that would be needed. Most likely the trucking companies(and drivers) would love a shot at surviving -- ie government script, food coupons, fuel coupons, energy tokens.. you get the picture.

Many trucking companies work everyday with the government. They haul classified materials, explosives, missiles, nucs, everything. The point is those companies that already have a close relationship would be first in line.-- most likely desiring the work. And many of them are very large, capable companies. Think Katrina. Who were those companies hauling for FEMA? They're the ones I'm talking about.

TMike

pcosmar
12-18-2010, 10:57 AM
Many trucking companies work everyday with the government. They haul classified materials, explosives, missiles, nucs, everything.

TMike

Don't be that guy. ;)

http://robotarmageddon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/iraq_convoy.jpg

charrob
12-18-2010, 01:31 PM
As long as they have their plasma TVs and food on their tables, you won't see people in the streets.

I have food on the table and a computer (don't watch tv), but i'm out in the streets everytime there's an opportunity to unite with others and ask for peace. Survival doesn't drive these actions- a human conscience and empathy for those we are harming does.

Over the last 10 years my disillusion has not just been with the government, but the American people who are among the civilized world's few that are _not_ out in the streets. The Europeans, even the Australians, can't understand how we can coldly allow these wars to continue without protest.

I never thought my countrymen could be this materialistic and indifferent to the suffering their passivity continues to allow.

So, I entirely agree with your sentiment: 'Can we all just revolt please?'.

GunnyFreedom
12-18-2010, 02:17 PM
I am always revolting. Ask anyone.

There's this great new innovation called 'running water...' :p j/k ;)

amy31416
12-18-2010, 03:59 PM
There's this great new innovation called 'running water...' :p j/k ;)

Pfft...that's for liberals and commies! (And you should have seen my last water bill--ack!)

AGRP
12-18-2010, 05:09 PM
http://www.moonbattery.com/porkulus-10th-amendment_2.jpg