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Knightskye
12-16-2010, 10:14 PM
Right thing to do?

Constitutional thing to do?

Do they overlap?

muzzled dogg
12-16-2010, 10:16 PM
434-1

agar
12-16-2010, 10:17 PM
What makes a 9/11 worker more entitled to Federal benefits that the firemen across the country who get killed or injured each day?

malkusm
12-16-2010, 10:24 PM
What's the bill number for this thing? I'd search the forums, but most of the posts are offline due to the server change.

SamuraisWisdom
12-16-2010, 10:58 PM
Funny you bring this topic up, I just saw a Daily Show clip about this the other day...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-december-13-2010/lame-as-f--k-congress

Pretty much sums up my feelings toward this bill. If the Republicans were going to use 9/11 as political ammunition for the past 9 years then the least they could do would be to actually support the people they've exploited.

cswake
12-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Already covered it:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272191-Help-me-understand-the-limited-gov-t-solution-to-this-sensitive-issue

Bill is in there too...

I personally think the responders could be considered under the arm of the Federal government since it was a national emergency. Paying for it is another question.

malkusm
12-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Ok, I just read about half of the bill....

So, on the one hand, the bill wants to make extra sure that it doesn't exclude anyone who might have legitimately been affected by the events on 9/11. That's why it covers:

-Workers at the landfills where debris was dumped
-Any direct relatives of firemen, police officers, port authority workers
-Anyone who fills out a questionnaire detailing their experience and getting a medical evaluation that demonstrates their symptoms**
**Symptoms include: lower back pain, carpal tunnel, and substance abuse (??!?!?) among others.

However, on the other hand, the bill doesn't want to make the proposed government program TOO big, so it arbitrarily caps the number of participants at 25,000, on a first-come first-served basis.

So, let me get this straight. Let's say you're a legitimate first respondent with lung cancer, and let's say you're not keeping up with the news. If 25,000 people apply before you, you're simply out of luck? With the broad conditions of eligibility, this seems like an arbitrary entitlement program. Compare this to the solution of the first respondents filing a class-action lawsuit on the basis of gross negligence on the part of the federal government to protect the people who were there - i.e., the solution where the opportunists would be out of luck instead of the first responders. Is that not a more fair and equitable solution?

RonPaulCult
12-16-2010, 11:21 PM
Not the role of the federal government. But I hope those brave people get help.

Philhelm
12-17-2010, 01:06 AM
434-1

Most likely.

vita3
12-17-2010, 07:11 AM
Bush's WH literally changed the EPA's air quality numbers for Ground Zero.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/09/national/main567489.shtml

dean.engelhardt
12-17-2010, 08:23 AM
I am not an expert on the bill. On its face it sounds good, like most bills with big price tags. I believe when someone that works for the government gets hurt due to performing that job, the government has a responsibility, like any employer. But I question the cost.

I would guess that firefighters and police in New York city have some type of insurance benefits. With the level of unionization I imagine they have very good health, disability, and life insurance benefits.

After exhausting these beneifits, do the responders really need $7.4 billions? I found this link that states there are 8,000 to 12,000 sick first responders:


I feel betrayed every day. It's no longer a coincidence that [8,000 people to 12,000] people are sick. Unfortunately I was probably one of the first. But … I'm not gonna be the last," Walcott said. (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2409716&page=2)

That would put the price tag at $925,000 to $616,666 per person. So the question is, after exhausting all the insurance coverage, do first responders need another $900,000 to cover medical expenses? I find this hard to believe.

vita3
12-17-2010, 01:47 PM
I agree that the bill seems to have too much $$ attached to it. That's where a responsible conservative Senator should be looking @ it from every angle & trimming it down w/ no waste.

I have heard that Rand is actually in favor of this bill & would like to hear his opinion, directly.

vita3
12-17-2010, 04:59 PM
If the peer reviewed scientific paper is true, then some of these responders breathed in nano-thermite chips

oyarde
12-17-2010, 08:01 PM
New York is free to do what is needed . Not Fed govt. role .

cindy25
12-17-2010, 08:14 PM
I am sick of New York City 911 whiners; here is the next Rudy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/stewart-911-responders-bill_n_798114.html

but I have a compromise suggestion; give NYC to Israel, and have it covered with the Israeli aid budget. they can take Schumer, Kagan, Sotomayor, Peter King; throw in Lieberman.

dannno
12-17-2010, 09:50 PM
What makes a 9/11 worker more entitled to Federal benefits that the firemen across the country who get killed or injured each day?

Let me count the ways.

#1 It was an attack on OUR COUNTRY (no matter who carried it out)

#2 The federal agency EPA lied about the air quality at ground zero and told people it was safe, they are responsible for so many illnesses and death it is sickening. And I don't mean they were wrong, I mean they KNEW how bad it was and LIED just so they could carry on with their god damn narrative that brought on so many wars and attacks on civil liberties.

dannno
12-17-2010, 09:54 PM
I am sick of New York City 911 whiners; here is the next Rudy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/stewart-911-responders-bill_n_798114.html

but I have a compromise suggestion; give NYC to Israel, and have it covered with the Israeli aid budget. they can take Schumer, Kagan, Sotomayor, Peter King; throw in Lieberman.


New York is not responsible for 9/11. Our foreign policy is.

dannno
12-17-2010, 09:55 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?153903-Respond-9-11-First-Responders-Need-Your-Help

vita3
12-17-2010, 09:57 PM
Bill will cover responders from all 50 states & over 10,000+ non NY'ers