Another reason why you should stop using V for Vendetta themes

[Jeremy]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/15/florida.meeting.shooting/index.html

[Knightskye]

What was the other reason?

[Legend1104]

Glad no one was hurt.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Glad no one was hurt.

the guy shot himself and died.

[Jordan]

the guy shot himself and died.

I wish that was how all killing sprees started.

[Ekrub]

I wish that was how all killing sprees started.

Me too :(

[ammorris]

What was the other reason?

Makes you look crazy.

[Tinnuhana]

The other confusion (intentional?) was that media, etc. confused the V for Vendetta theme with the actual historical figure, Guy Fawkes, rather than with the graphic novel/movie character (hint: the mask).

[eOs]

http://aviewfrommybalcony.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/v-for-vendetta-logo-wallpaper.jpg

Pussies. :D

[Rael]

sorry i like v for vendetta and the guy fawkes masks

[dannno]

Hey look, Rael included me in his avatar :D

[nobody's_hero]

If we had to stop using our symbols every time somebody tried to screw things up for the rest of us, we'd have nothing left to represent us.

[jmdrake]

What was the other reason?

1) Guy Fawkes was actually a terrorist.

2) Guy Fawkes was trying to kill the man who commissioned the King James Bible (King James himself).

3) While some folks here might actually like Guy Fawkes because of point # 2, the average GOP voter would be pissed to learn that Ron Paul's movement idealizes someone who was indirectly attacking something they cherish.

4) Usually when governments are destroyed by force a more totalitarian regime emerges from the ashes.

(For more on this see the RPF thread William Norman Grigg Slams the "V For Vendetta" Movie (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272185-William-Norman-Grigg-Slams-the-quot-V-For-Vendetta-quot-Movie&highlight=Vendetta)


sorry i like v for vendetta and the guy fawkes masks

Fine. But folks pushing the Guy Fawkes meme shouldn't get mad at people showing up at Ron Paul rallies wearing "9/11 was an inside job" t-shirts. The truthers question terrorist attacks. Guy Fawkes on the other hand was actually a terrorist. Imagine a movement where people were walking around wearing Osama Bin Laden masks? Really, this hypocrisy has been a burr under my saddle for quite some time. (And I'm not meaning you in general. I don't know what you think of truthers). The YAL has an official "anti conspiracy theory" policy, but they promote the V meme. Why? Do people in this movement really think that someone's going to say "I won't vote for Ron Paul because some of his supporters think elements of the government might have been behind 9/11 but I'm totally down with a REAL terrorist who tried to blow up the British parliament? I mean really folks.

[tangent4ronpaul]

If we had to stop using our symbols every time somebody tried to screw things up for the rest of us, we'd have nothing left to represent us.

+1

-t

[pcosmar]

the guy shot himself and died.

They all do.

[pcosmar]

1) Guy Fawkes was actually a terrorist.




By one version of history. To others he was fighting against a corrupt and abusive government.

But the bottom line is ,

V is NOT Guy Fawkes.

Not Fawkes, but V ,
from the movie V for Vendetta.
Different guy.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

1) Guy Fawkes was actually a terrorist.

2) Guy Fawkes was trying to kill the man who commissioned the King James Bible (King James himself).

3) While some folks here might actually like Guy Fawkes because of point # 2, the average GOP voter would be pissed to learn that Ron Paul's movement idealizes someone who was indirectly attacking something they cherish.

4) Usually when governments are destroyed by force a more totalitarian regime emerges from the ashes.

(For more on this see the RPF thread William Norman Grigg Slams the "V For Vendetta" Movie (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272185-William-Norman-Grigg-Slams-the-quot-V-For-Vendetta-quot-Movie&highlight=Vendetta)



Fine. But folks pushing the Guy Fawkes meme shouldn't get mad at people showing up at Ron Paul rallies wearing "9/11 was an inside job" t-shirts. The truthers question terrorist attacks. Guy Fawkes on the other hand was actually a terrorist. Imagine a movement where people were walking around wearing Osama Bin Laden masks? Really, this hypocrisy has been a burr under my saddle for quite some time. (And I'm not meaning you in general. I don't know what you think of truthers). The YAL has an official "anti conspiracy theory" policy, but they promote the V meme. Why? Do people in this movement really think that someone's going to say "I won't vote for Ron Paul because some of his supporters think elements of the government might have been behind 9/11 but I'm totally down with a REAL terrorist who tried to blow up the British parliament? I mean really folks.

And the Sons of Liberty were 'terrorists' too. Since when is it a taboo to make the thieves and the criminals in fear of the people? How many times have I seen the Government should fear the people, the people shouldn't fear the Government quote by Jefferson thrown around everywhere without a whince. When you let the media determine what you are, well, that's about as jellyfish as you will ever get. It's sort of akin to Patrick Henry saying 'geee, we can't use the White and Red Bars now because King George and his ministry has determined us to be criminals and terrorists', and therefore any association or sympathy instantly labels you and everyone else around you 'spooky', 'dangerous', and a 'terrorist'. In my book it is definitely ok to defend your property and your life from these scum. No need to go out and provoke though. Local Militia's instituted for defense of their community, themselves, and their property is enough. If .Govs come around, then defend yourselves. I don't see any reason to go to them....

My view anyways.

[Tinnuhana]

Right; but the media take on the Nov 5 money bomb was that it was held on that day in celebration of Guy Fawkes Day, ignoring that it was because of the movie, and especially the speech V gave on TV that Nov 5 was chosen. The mask to many of us is a symbol of realizing what's happening, coming out of the dark, and uniting to speak truth to power; it has nothing directly to do with Guy Fawkes himself. The ideas we've rallied around have little if nothing to do with Guy Fawkes...maybe not even the V character, himself.
We can listen to the national anthem and imagine bombers and tanks, or mountains and streams, or true patriots past and present. We must not become afraid to define our particular symbols or enter into some "PC" void where we let other people redefine them and then back down from using them. Do we want to stop using the Gadsden flag because some angry interventionist types have taken to flying them?
I'm not disagreeing with anyone posting here. These are only some random thoughts.

[Bern]

Another reason why you should stop using V for Vendetta themes

You're right. The next time I go on a shooting spree at my local school board, I'm leaving the red spray paint behind. That way, I won't seem as crazy.

[angelatc]

A guy who looks like an anarchist (and who may well be one - I don't keep track) is telling us why the movie association is bad for our image? <shakes head sadly>

This school board guy already had links and references to a myriad of progressive sites on his Facebook profile. If he had a Glen Beck or a Ron Paul quote anywhere in the mix, we'd be watching elected officials condemning "the movement." Instead, media silence over his political affiliations.

It doesn't matter if V isn't Guy Fawkes any more than if Paul isn't an isolationist. We are always going to be held to a different standard than the left, even by members of our party. If we pretend to condemn the movie, it won't matter. Anything any of us has ever said or done will be dredged up in the coverage of our, but only our, candidates.

[noxagol]

The adoration of V for Vendetta here is not about Guy Fawkes. It stems from a guy fighting a police state and winning. Not about some guy who tried to blow up parlament hundreds of years ago.

[Wesker1982]

But the bottom line is ,

V is NOT Guy Fawkes.

Not Fawkes, but V ,
from the movie V for Vendetta.
Different guy.


The adoration of V for Vendetta here is not about Guy Fawkes. It stems from a guy fighting a police state and winning. Not about some guy who tried to blow up parlament hundreds of years ago.

^ This.

and



If we had to stop using our symbols every time somebody tried to screw things up for the rest of us, we'd have nothing left to represent us.

[speciallyblend]

the other reason is the pathetic brandname and platform of the gop!!

[hazek]

I really hate the word terrorist. It's a stupid word only used to demonize certain people and clump them up under one description so they can be presented as a common enemy. Just like evildoers. It makes want to vomit.

How about we use for:
-9/11 hijackers: radical fanatics
-Guy Fawkes: anarchist thug
-V: revolutionary radical
-Al-Qaeda in Iraq: Iraqi guerrilla

But noooo it's

TERRORIST!!!! BOOOOO, BE AFRAID!!!!!

Fking propaganda.

[jmdrake]

By one version of history. To others he was fighting against a corrupt and abusive government.

But the bottom line is ,

V is NOT Guy Fawkes.

Not Fawkes, but V ,
from the movie V for Vendetta.
Different guy.

V was wearing a Guy Fawkes mask. That's the whole point of the plot. He was wanting to "finish the job" Guy started. Imagine if someone made a movie where the "hero" wore an Osama Bin Laden mask and sought to blow landmark buildings on the 100 year anniversary of 9/11?

[jmdrake]

I really hate the word terrorist. It's a stupid word only used to demonize certain people and clump them up under one description so they can be presented as a common enemy. Just like evildoers. It makes want to vomit.

How about we use for:
-9/11 hijackers: radical fanatics
-Guy Fawkes: anarchist thug
-V: revolutionary radical
-Al-Qaeda in Iraq: Iraqi guerrilla

But noooo it's

TERRORIST!!!! BOOOOO, BE AFRAID!!!!!

Fking propaganda.

Guy Fawkes wasn't an anarchist. He was a papist. He wanted to replace the protestant monarchy with a catholic one. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. Propaganda indeed.

[jmdrake]

The adoration of V for Vendetta here is not about Guy Fawkes. It stems from a guy fighting a police state and winning. Not about some guy who tried to blow up parlament hundreds of years ago.

Ummm....the guy in the movie wanted to blow up parliament hundreds of years later in honor of the guy who wanted to blow up parliament hundreds of years before. Anyway, I assume that everybody supporting the V meme will not care about 9/11 t-shirts at future CFL rallies.

[Immortal Technique]

1) Guy Fawkes was actually a terrorist.

2) Guy Fawkes was trying to kill the man who commissioned the King James Bible (King James himself).

3) While some folks here might actually like Guy Fawkes because of point # 2, the average GOP voter would be pissed to learn that Ron Paul's movement idealizes someone who was indirectly attacking something they cherish.

4) Usually when governments are destroyed by force a more totalitarian regime emerges from the ashes.



FEMA Says Founding Fathers Are Terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio

Brian Williams Calls Founding Fathers Terrorists Of Their Time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEe_Zty0URg

[hazek]

Anyway, I assume that everybody supporting the V meme will not care about 9/11 t-shirts at future CFL rallies.

Just because I support his ideas doesn't mean I support his methods. ;)

[jmdrake]

Just because I support his ideas doesn't mean I support his methods.

That's not the point I was making. (Actually though I see nothing to support in V's hero's ideas. Guy Fawkes wasn't even an anarchist). The point I was making is that people go all ape over someone with a 9/11 truther t-shirt on and yet wear a mask of a terrorist. I mean really folks. Either associations hurt us or they don't. If they don't then don't worry about any of them. (And I'm not talking about you in particular).

[jmdrake]

FEMA Says Founding Fathers Are Terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio

Brian Williams Calls Founding Fathers Terrorists Of Their Time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEe_Zty0URg

Logical fallacy. Just because some people have been misidentified as terrorists doesn't mean that there is no such thing as a real terrorist. It's like the story "The boy who cried wolf". That didn't mean there weren't any real wolves.

[pcosmar]

Words.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLD3Z6sJWA

I agree with them.

[pcosmar]

Logical fallacy. Just because some people have been misidentified as terrorists doesn't mean that there is no such thing as a real terrorist. It's like the story "The boy who cried wolf". That didn't mean there weren't any real wolves.

Wolves are a particular type of animal. Predators by nature.

"terrorism' is a tactic.
One used by the major governments far more often the it is by small ill equipped groups.

It has also become a powerful propaganda tool used by those same Major Governments that have made used of military threats to gain and hold power.

To call someone a "terrorist" is to call them a tacticist.

[jmdrake]

Wolves are a particular type of animal. Predators by nature.

"terrorism' is a tactic.
One used by the major governments far more often the it is by small ill equipped groups.

It has also become a powerful propaganda tool used by those same Major Governments that have made used of military threats to gain and hold power.

To call someone a "terrorist" is to call them a tacticist.

Fine. That's your perspective. I don't agree with it, but I agree with your right to have it. However you are not one of the people who freaks out and busts a gut everytime someone within this movement has the courage to say "You know what? The government's story on 9/11 doesn't add up. And that's a problem because they use that story to justify most of their tyranny for the past 10 years." That's my main point. It's the inconsistency of the "V is ok, but questioning the government is not" position that irks the mess out of me.

[Knightskye]

Words.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLD3Z6sJWA

I agree with them.

+1

[pcosmar]

Fine. That's your perspective. I don't agree with it, but I agree with your right to have it. However you are not one of the people who freaks out and busts a gut everytime someone within this movement has the courage to say "You know what? The government's story on 9/11 doesn't add up. And that's a problem because they use that story to justify most of their tyranny for the past 10 years." That's my main point. It's the inconsistency of the "V is ok, but questioning the government is not" position that irks the mess out of me.

That is because I don't think this guy spray painting a V, while on video tape, and only taking his own life, was a random event.
I suspect it was staged.
I am willing to present evidence that it can be done. And I expect that many of they"crazy" shooters are programed in the same way.
:mad:

[hazek]

Oh if only we had the chance to pull of this speech on all TV channel at a single time like V did. :(

[Pericles]

1) Guy Fawkes was actually a terrorist.

2) Guy Fawkes was trying to kill the man who commissioned the King James Bible (King James himself).

3) While some folks here might actually like Guy Fawkes because of point # 2, the average GOP voter would be pissed to learn that Ron Paul's movement idealizes someone who was indirectly attacking something they cherish.

4) Usually when governments are destroyed by force a more totalitarian regime emerges from the ashes.

(For more on this see the RPF thread William Norman Grigg Slams the "V For Vendetta" Movie (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272185-William-Norman-Grigg-Slams-the-quot-V-For-Vendetta-quot-Movie&highlight=Vendetta)



Fine. But folks pushing the Guy Fawkes meme shouldn't get mad at people showing up at Ron Paul rallies wearing "9/11 was an inside job" t-shirts. The truthers question terrorist attacks. Guy Fawkes on the other hand was actually a terrorist. Imagine a movement where people were walking around wearing Osama Bin Laden masks? Really, this hypocrisy has been a burr under my saddle for quite some time. (And I'm not meaning you in general. I don't know what you think of truthers). The YAL has an official "anti conspiracy theory" policy, but they promote the V meme. Why? Do people in this movement really think that someone's going to say "I won't vote for Ron Paul because some of his supporters think elements of the government might have been behind 9/11 but I'm totally down with a REAL terrorist who tried to blow up the British parliament? I mean really folks.

True, but the "penny for the Guy (http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/penny_for_the_guy.htm)" is part of British culture - or it used to be before PC took over the UK.

[Zatch]

Isn't the author of V for Vendetta is anarcho-socialist?

[JustinTime]

I never did use it.

[pcosmar]

Oh if only we had the chance to pull of this speech on all TV channel at a single time like V did. :(

I like this one better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zvAC-cSdFo

Though I like V's mask better.

[Aratus]

had the gunman not included the circle, the Tv series "V" which
returns to NBC on January 4th would have been talked about, too.
the incident in florida is a tragedy, i cannot fault at all the committee
members or the security guard at all. the guman may have egged on
the outcome by being so threatening. i think he was not coldly trying
to kill, insted he was angry and depressed. indeed we should try to be
less inflamatory in our rhetoric, especially since we all are 6 months away
from fielding rEVOLUTIOn candidates nation wide for the 2012 elections!

[Jordan]

had the gunman not included the circle, the Tv series "V" which
returns to NBC on January 4th would have been talked about, too.
the incident in florida is a tragedy, i cannot fault at all the committee
members or the security guard at all. the guman may have egged on
the outcome by being so threatening. i think he was not coldly trying
to kill, insted he was angry and depressed. indeed we should try to be
less inflamatory in our rhetoric, especially since we all are 6 months away
from fielding rEVOLUTIOn candidates nation wide for the 2012 elections!

This.

[jmdrake]

True, but the "penny for the Guy (http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/penny_for_the_guy.htm)" is part of British culture - or it used to be before PC took over the UK.

Yeah. Protestants burning effigies of Guy Fawkes and the pope. That doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either. Anyway, folks can do what they want.