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View Full Version : All your CC purchases will be reported Jan 1st - Do something about this now!




free1
12-15-2010, 04:18 PM
I read this and it says all transactions done by Credit Card will be reported. Every single one, I see no exceptions for quantity or amount.

STOP THIS NOW! Write and call the congress critters!

But you should know that it can only apply to addresses within the ***jurisdiction*** of the United States (the name for the government), which means United States areas (again, the word United States means the government, so governmental areas, please learn to read this stuff).

See this part - "(B) EXCLUSION OF FOREIGN PERSONS- Except as provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, such term shall not include any person with a foreign address."

And of course it can't because the United States (the government) has limited jurisdiction, they can't have power over everyone and everything, we don't allow that in the constitution. We didn't grant them power over us either, why would anyone do that?

So the big question is, do you live in a US area and are you a subject (owned, property) of the US government?

The US government's jurisdiction ends at the Washington DC border, DC is not a State of the union. Americans are foreign to the US government. Let me know when you get to the point of understanding that.

Here's the bill text I have seen. STOP THIS NOW!


H.R. 3221 [110th]: Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-3221

‘SEC. 6050W. RETURNS RELATING TO PAYMENTS MADE IN SETTLEMENT OF PAYMENT CARD AND THIRD PARTY NETWORK TRANSACTIONS.

‘(a) In General- Each payment settlement entity shall make a return for each calendar year setting forth--

‘(1) the name, address, and TIN of each participating payee to whom one or more payments in settlement of reportable payment transactions are made, and

‘(2) the gross amount of the reportable payment transactions with respect to each such participating payee.

Such return shall be made at such time and in such form and manner as the Secretary may require by regulations.

‘(b) Payment Settlement Entity- For purposes of this section--

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The term ‘payment settlement entity’ means--

‘(A) in the case of a payment card transaction, the merchant acquiring entity, and

‘(B) in the case of a third party network transaction, the third party settlement organization.

‘(2) MERCHANT ACQUIRING ENTITY- The term ‘merchant acquiring entity’ means the bank or other organization which has the contractual obligation to make payment to participating payees in settlement of payment card transactions.

‘(3) THIRD PARTY SETTLEMENT ORGANIZATION- The term ‘third party settlement organization’ means the central organization which has the contractual obligation to make payment to participating payees of third party network transactions.

‘(4) SPECIAL RULES RELATED TO INTERMEDIARIES- For purposes of this section--

‘(A) AGGREGATED PAYEES- In any case where reportable payment transactions of more than one participating payee are settled through an intermediary--

‘(i) such intermediary shall be treated as the participating payee for purposes of determining the reporting obligations of the payment settlement entity with respect to such transactions, and

‘(ii) such intermediary shall be treated as the payment settlement entity with respect to the settlement of such transactions with the participating payees.

‘(B) ELECTRONIC PAYMENT FACILITATORS- In any case where an electronic payment facilitator or other third party makes payments in settlement of reportable payment transactions on behalf of the payment settlement entity, the return under subsection (a) shall be made by such electronic payment facilitator or other third party in lieu of the payment settlement entity.

‘(c) Reportable Payment Transaction- For purposes of this section--

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The term ‘reportable payment transaction’ means any payment card transaction and any third party network transaction.

‘(2) PAYMENT CARD TRANSACTION- The term ‘payment card transaction’ means any transaction in which a payment card is accepted as payment.

‘(3) THIRD PARTY NETWORK TRANSACTION- The term ‘third party network transaction’ means any transaction which is settled through a third party payment network.

‘(d) Other Definitions- For purposes of this section--

‘(1) PARTICIPATING PAYEE-

‘(A) IN GENERAL- The term ‘participating payee’ means--

‘(i) in the case of a payment card transaction, any person who accepts a payment card as payment, and

‘(ii) in the case of a third party network transaction, any person who accepts payment from a third party settlement organization in settlement of such transaction.

‘(B) EXCLUSION OF FOREIGN PERSONS- Except as provided by the Secretary in regulations or other guidance, such term shall not include any person with a foreign address.

‘(C) INCLUSION OF GOVERNMENTAL UNITS- The term ‘person’ includes any governmental unit (and any agency or instrumentality thereof).

‘(2) PAYMENT CARD- The term ‘payment card’ means any card which is issued pursuant to an agreement or arrangement which provides for--

‘(A) one or more issuers of such cards,

‘(B) a network of persons unrelated to each other, and to the issuer, who agree to accept such cards as payment, and

‘(C) standards and mechanisms for settling the transactions between the merchant acquiring entities and the persons who agree to accept such cards as payment.

The acceptance as payment of any account number or other indicia associated with a payment card shall be treated for purposes of this section in the same manner as accepting such payment card as payment.

‘(3) THIRD PARTY PAYMENT NETWORK- The term ‘third party payment network’ means any agreement or arrangement--

‘(A) which involves the establishment of accounts with a central organization by a substantial number of persons who--

‘(i) are unrelated to such organization,

‘(ii) provide goods or services, and

‘(iii) have agreed to settle transactions for the provision of such goods or services pursuant to such agreement or arrangement,

‘(B) which provides for standards and mechanisms for settling such transactions, and

‘(C) which guarantees persons providing goods or services pursuant to such agreement or arrangement that such persons will be paid for providing such goods or services.

Such term shall not include any agreement or arrangement which provides for the issuance of payment cards.

‘(e) Exception for De Minimis Payments by Third Party Settlement Organizations- A third party settlement organization shall be required to report any information under subsection (a) with respect to third party network transactions of any participating payee only if--

‘(1) the amount which would otherwise be reported under subsection (a)(2) with respect to such transactions exceeds $20,000, and

‘(2) the aggregate number of such transactions exceeds 200.

‘(f) Statements to Be Furnished to Persons With Respect to Whom Information Is Required- Every person required to make a return under subsection (a) shall furnish to each person with respect to whom such a return is required a written statement showing--

‘(1) the name, address, and phone number of the information contact of the person required to make such return, and

‘(2) the gross amount of the reportable payment transactions with respect to the person required to be shown on the return.

The written statement required under the preceding sentence shall be furnished to the person on or before January 31 of the year following the calendar year for which the return under subsection (a) was required to be made. Such statement may be furnished electronically, and if so, the email address of the person required to make such return may be shown in lieu of the phone number.

‘(g) Regulations- The Secretary may prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out this section, including rules to prevent the reporting of the same transaction more than once.’.

(b) Penalty for Failure to File-

(1) RETURN- Subparagraph (B) of section 6724(d)(1) is amended--

(A) by striking ‘or’ at the end of clause (xx),

(B) by redesignating the clause (xix) that follows clause (xx) as clause (xxi),

(C) by striking ‘and’ at the end of clause (xxi), as redesignated by subparagraph (B) and inserting ‘or’, and

(D) by adding at the end the following:

‘(xxii) section 6050W (relating to returns to payments made in settlement of payment card transactions), and’.

(2) STATEMENT- Paragraph (2) of section 6724(d) is amended by striking ‘or’ at the end of subparagraph (BB), by striking the period at the end of the subparagraph (CC) and inserting ‘, or’, and by inserting after subparagraph (CC) the following:

‘(DD) section 6050W(c) (relating to returns relating to payments made in settlement of payment card transactions).’.

(c) Application of Backup Withholding- Paragraph (3) of section 3406(b) is amended by striking ‘or’ at the end of subparagraph (D), by striking the period at the end of subparagraph (E) and inserting ‘, or’, and by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:

‘(F) section 6050W (relating to returns relating to payments made in settlement of payment card transactions).’.

(d) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for subpart B of part III of subchapter A of chapter 61 is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 6050V the following:

‘Sec. 6050W. Returns relating to payments made in settlement of payment card transactions.’.

(e) Effective Date-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, the amendments made by this section shall apply to returns for calendar years beginning after December 31, 2010.

(2) APPLICATION OF BACKUP WITHHOLDING-

(A) IN GENERAL- The amendment made by subsection (c) shall apply to amounts paid after December 31, 2011.

(B) ELIGIBILITY FOR TIN MATCHING PROGRAM- Solely for purposes of carrying out any TIN matching program established by the Secretary under section 3406(i) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986--

(i) the amendments made this section shall be treated as taking effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and

(ii) each person responsible for setting the standards and mechanisms referred to in section 6050W(d)(2)(C) of such Code, as added by this section, for settling transactions involving payment cards shall be treated in the same manner as a payment settlement entity.

tangent4ronpaul
12-15-2010, 04:38 PM
(a) with respect to third party network transactions of any participating payee only if--

‘(1) the amount which would otherwise be reported under subsection (a)(2) with respect to such transactions exceeds $20,000, and

‘(2) the aggregate number of such transactions exceeds 200.

oyarde
12-15-2010, 04:41 PM
OK , I am game . What are they going to do with the info ? I routinely only charge hotels , airline tickets & for fun , beer , gas , cigarettes & chicken wings . The evil first lady probably wants to tax my chicken wings and have Homeland security & the dept of agriculture force me to eat an apple . What are your ideas ?

tangent4ronpaul
12-15-2010, 04:45 PM
I think it's probably about money laundering, but the exemptions don't make sense if the money is headed out of the country.

The other possibility is to enforce a planned new tax on buying things, especially over the Internet and across state lines.

-t

ChaosControl
12-15-2010, 04:49 PM
CC only or CC and DC?
I was planning to stop using my CC this month anyway. This would be more reason to do so.

oyarde
12-15-2010, 04:51 PM
I think it's probably about money laundering, but the exemptions don't make sense if the money is headed out of the country.

The other possibility is to enforce a planned new tax on buying things, especially over the Internet and across state lines.

-t

I am suspicious of taxes as well.

QueenB4Liberty
12-15-2010, 05:50 PM
CC only or CC and DC?
I was planning to stop using my CC this month anyway. This would be more reason to do so.

Exactly!

sluggo
12-15-2010, 05:51 PM
I think this is part of Obama's "revised" tax plan. One click filing for the serfs.

oyarde
12-15-2010, 05:55 PM
I think this is part of Obama's "revised" tax plan. One click filing for the serfs.

Thats it , I am paying cash for my chicken wings .

free1
12-16-2010, 05:04 AM
(a) with respect to third party network transactions of any participating payee only if--

‘(1) the amount which would otherwise be reported under subsection (a)(2) with respect to such transactions exceeds $20,000, and

‘(2) the aggregate number of such transactions exceeds 200.

Looks like that's for this only:

THIRD PARTY SETTLEMENT ORGANIZATION- The term ‘third party settlement organization’ means the central organization which has the contractual obligation to make payment to participating payees of third party network transactions.

"(e) Exception for De Minimis Payments by Third Party Settlement Organizations-"

This documents is so open for abuse it's not funny.

It's got to be stopped. NOW.

And the 4th Amendment applies here, they have no power to look into your transactions without a warant.

We have seen recent cases being won on the 4th, even though a lot of supposedly smart lawyers said you can't fight them using the 4th. See the recent Virginia case for example.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?272771-EFF-Victory-Appeals-Court-Holds-that-Email-Privacy-Protected-by-Fourth-Amendment

"6th Circuit agreed with EFF that email users have a Fourth Amendment-protected expectation of privacy in the email they store with their email service providers"

If e-mail is protected , why not your transactions?

Did you somehow contract away those rights? Did you have clear and full disclosure that you were giving away that right? Bring out the contract, NOW!

If not, then it's fraud and void on it's face.

So, therefore, you are protected under the 4th - WHICH APPLIES TO THE GOVERNMENT, they can't do that.

So, this is null and void on it's face, and it needs to go bye bye NOW!

BTW: You can put all these companies on notice NOW with a simple letter stating that it's null and void and a violation and they need to see a signed contract else they are LIABLE FOR FRAUD. That should get them to act.

jmdrake
12-16-2010, 05:29 AM
I read this and it says all transactions done by Credit Card will be reported. Every single one, I see no exceptions for quantity or amount.

STOP THIS NOW! Write and call the congress critters!

But you should know that it can only apply to addresses within the ***jurisdiction*** of the United States (the name for the government), which means United States areas (again, the word United States means the government, so governmental areas, please learn to read this stuff).


Thanks for posting this. Technically there's less of a constitutional reason for the federal government to exclude foreigners than there is for all of the other crap they do. After all the feds do have jurisdiction over foreign commerce. I think they're excluding foreigners just to appease foreign governments and be good slave masters in the "global community". (Plus many members of our government have foreign addresses themselves. Or have we forgotten Dick Cheney's villa in Dubai? (http://wonkette.com/243540/cheney-fleeing-to-dubai) And don't forget all of the American companies who have relocated their headquarters to countries like Dubai including Cheney's own Halliburton. (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0314-08.htm))

Anyway, I hope everybody who was defending MasterCard recently takes a good look at this. The credit card companies are JUST like the British East India company (the one that sparked the Boston Tea party) and maybe worse. They are colluding with the federal government to help build our electronic prison. I don't advocate what "Anonymous" was doing because for practical reasons we must work within the law. But this isn't a case of the "free market" at work. Because of government regulations you do not have the freedom of choice to choose a credit card company that will not violate your rights. "Private property" my left eye.

nobody's_hero
12-16-2010, 05:51 AM
I thought this was already in effect. After all, it was snuck into the Freddie/Fannie nonsense two years ago.

Don't count on the credit card companies to lend you any assistance when it comes to defending the Constitution. I believe we've already had a similar discussion on RPFs on that, though.

RileyE104
12-16-2010, 12:03 PM
This STARTS Jan. 1st or it has already started??

Jordan
12-16-2010, 12:12 PM
Explanation:

Merchants who do more than 200 transactions AND $20,000 in business through any payment processor will have their data reported to the IRS. Obviously, should you use a credit card, your data will be included, but the emphasis is on the merchant, not the purchasers.

This explains why biz credit card transactions won't require a 1099 from the health care law...they'll already be tracked.

Jordan
12-16-2010, 12:48 PM
bump

free1
12-16-2010, 04:18 PM
But this isn't a case of the "free market" at work. Because of government regulations you do not have the freedom of choice to choose a credit card company that will not violate your rights. "Private property" my left eye.

I agree. I like what Ron did in proposing an alternative "currency" so people can choose if they want funny money or not.

I don't think it would be that hard for a lot of people here to write these companies that are going to be spying on us and let them know the law is null and void and if they act you may bring action.

This usually gets them to wake up and realize that they need to be more worried about us then the Feds. They need to know who has the power in this country.

I've seen big corporations completely change their policy after they realize that people could sue them over what they are doing, regardless of what the Feds tell them to do.

Any of you could help with this by spreading the word on other boards and forums.

free1
12-17-2010, 02:00 PM
Bump

oyarde
12-17-2010, 02:03 PM
Just in case , I paid cash for gas & beer this week : ) .

KCIndy
12-17-2010, 09:06 PM
OK , I am game . What are they going to do with the info ? I routinely only charge hotels , airline tickets & for fun , beer , gas , cigarettes & chicken wings . The evil first lady probably wants to tax my chicken wings and have Homeland security & the dept of agriculture force me to eat an apple . What are your ideas ?


I'm guessing "They" will be watching for purchases of gold and guns.

oyarde
12-17-2010, 09:11 PM
I'm guessing "They" will be watching for purchases of gold and guns.

Well , I have enough weapons , do not buy gold , pay cash for silver and sell for cash to my local coin dealer who does not take my name , so I should be OK : ) .

oyarde
12-17-2010, 09:20 PM
I'm guessing "They" will be watching for purchases of gold and guns.

I was in the coin shop Wed. selling a pretty nice collection of 29 Morgans with some nice dates and mint marks . This was several hundred dollars so , for the first time in the fourteen years I have gone there occasionally , I offered to sign his hand written invoice and he said " no , your not a crook " . It made me laugh . He threw in a great cup of coffee too . I should have asked what brand , it smelled and tasted better than my , buy whatever is cheapest brand : )

cindy25
12-17-2010, 09:25 PM
credit card and bank accounts have been reported for a long time.

oyarde
12-17-2010, 09:30 PM
credit card and bank accounts have been reported for a long time.

All bank deposits over 10,000 ?

Jordan
12-18-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm guessing "They" will be watching for purchases of gold and guns.

This portion of the bill is about tax collection. They estimate it will bring in $10B more per year.

free1
12-19-2010, 08:42 AM
I was in the coin shop Wed. selling a pretty nice collection of 29 Morgans with some nice dates and mint marks . This was several hundred dollars so , for the first time in the fourteen years I have gone there occasionally , I offered to sign his hand written invoice and he said " no , your not a crook " . It made me laugh . He threw in a great cup of coffee too . I should have asked what brand , it smelled and tasted better than my , buy whatever is cheapest brand : )

Your coin guy **is** your banker.

I don't know why people bother with the other guys, they wouldn't know real money if it slapped them in the face.

free1
12-22-2010, 05:14 AM
Bump

Tinnuhana
12-22-2010, 05:33 AM
My dealer is a great guy, too. I wonder if this is going to affect him, since he's going to the states for a coin show in early January. The current currency of choice at stateside coin shows seems to be old silver quarters worth melt value. I'm trying to keep more of my money in yen these days. If I withdraw $$ and go down to JUSCO (shopping center) they have machines to change dollars to yen and their exchange rates are better than the banks on base.
So in the world of competing currencies, right now the yen is winning over here.
By the way, though, gas off base here is 115Y a liter, while we're paying almost $3 a gallon on base.
And I'd never use my credit card off base since MC, etc. charge 3% on foreign currency purchases.

oyarde
12-22-2010, 03:47 PM
My dealer is a great guy, too. I wonder if this is going to affect him, since he's going to the states for a coin show in early January. The current currency of choice at stateside coin shows seems to be old silver quarters worth melt value. I'm trying to keep more of my money in yen these days. If I withdraw $$ and go down to JUSCO (shopping center) they have machines to change dollars to yen and their exchange rates are better than the banks on base.
So in the world of competing currencies, right now the yen is winning over here.
By the way, though, gas off base here is 115Y a liter, while we're paying almost $3 a gallon on base.
And I'd never use my credit card off base since MC, etc. charge 3% on foreign currency purchases.

I paid 3.10 for gas yesterday in Indiana .

free1
12-24-2010, 07:47 AM
i paid 3.10 for gas yesterday in indiana .

ouch!

Bern
12-24-2010, 07:55 AM
This was discussed a bit back in the day as it targets PayPal and other non-credit card systems.

free1
04-27-2011, 09:16 PM
Anyone know what happened with this?

Are they now quietly saving all your personal info for later use?

I know the stupid $600 reporting requirement went out the door along with the health care bill, but this wasn't part of that.

What are they up to???

heavenlyboy34
04-27-2011, 09:26 PM
All bank deposits over 10,000 ?

I dunno about deposits, but withdrawls of 10,000+ have long been "red flags" IIRC.

cindy25
04-28-2011, 12:02 AM
I dunno about deposits, but withdrawls of 10,000+ have long been "red flags" IIRC.

cash transactions of $10,000 or more; deposit or withdrawal but only cash.