The truth about Rand's meetings with neocons McConnell and Bill Kristol

[Matt Collins]

Now that this is public I can discuss such things as Jack Hunter has just written about.....




Rand’s professorial nature comes through at surprising times. When a major donor requested that Rand visit a few contacts in Washington, D.C.—including Weekly Standard editor William Kristol—some of his libertarian supporters shrieked that the candidate had crossed over to the dark side. In fact, as one campaign staffer told me, most of the conversation centered on Rand trying to explain to Kristol why the neoconservative policy toward Israel was irrational. Kristol tolerated Rand for a bit but eventually left the candidate with an assistant. Rand then visited the Cato Institute and made a few other stops that day, never thinking his meeting with Kristol was particularly controversial until worried supporters said otherwise.

Although Rand’s primary campaign had been a war on the Republican establishment as much as on the Democrats, partisanship can sometimes be useful. After the primary, Senator McConnell made peace with the Paul camp, and one campaign staffer relates the story that McConnell told Rand he could cause as much trouble as he liked once he got to the Senate—but he’d better get there. As minority leader, Kentucky’s senior senator had a personal stake in seeing as many GOP Senate nominees as possible succeed.


Rand would occasionally talk to McConnell by phone on the campaign trail, always politely thanking the senator for his electoral advice, which would typically be followed. But that was where their alliance ended. Even so, many of Paul’s libertarian and Tea Party supporters cringed at the very thought of their candidate receiving help from—or worse, making public appearances with—arguably the most establishment Republican of them all.



Rand took help wherever he could get it. Tactical advice certainly couldn’t hurt, and as Rand would admit, he’s simply not a natural campaigner. He does it well, and obviously successfully, but he is a thinker more than a strategist, not unlike his father. His demeanor is overtly rational and says much about who he is and how he campaigns: he starts conversations with the intention of having a civil discussion.SOURCE:
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/senator-tea-party/


I wish I could've shared all of this earlier but all of this was told to me in confidence. Those that trusted myself, other Rand supporters, and especially Rand himself, during the campaign hopefully realize that Rand is indeed the real deal and we were not supporting him for non-philosophical reasons. I would not support someone whom I didn't agree with, even if their last name was Paul. During campaigns though one cannot share everything that one knows, especially in a public forum.


Jack is also the guy who told me that he had analyzed both Ron and Rand's writings, speeches, and platforms, and there isn't really a dimes worth of difference between them.

[BamaFanNKy]

Matt, Thanks for giving us a glimpse from the inside. Your work with the help of a 'few of your friends' has given me such pride in my new Senator. I don't know how to repay you for you planning and strategy in getting him elected.


#
Matt Collins writes
November 30th, 2010 12:27 pm

The plan to defeat the Senator known as “Bailout Bob” Corker has already been drawn up and is in fact in the works. If I can get Rand Paul elected in KY (with the help of a few friends) then I can also ensure that Senator Corker is defeated.

2011 is going to be a pivotal year.
Source: http://politics.nashvillepost.com/2010/11/30/still-a-12-tea-target/

[Matt Collins]

This part is important too:


Despite his characteristically blunt logic, Rand has a knack for customizing sophisticated libertarian and conservative ideas for mainstream audiences accustomed to more conventional Republican rhetoric. His talent in this regard served him particularly well in foreign-policy discussions. At one campaign stop, a man asked the candidate about his views on Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia. Rand answered: “I think the most important thing we do with the federal government is our national defense, bar none, but then I think it’s open to debate what is in our national defense. The problem with Afghanistan is that we’ve now been there ten years, and the question is, ‘is ten years long enough?’”


This didn’t seem controversial to the questioner, and Rand would strike much the same tone throughout the campaign. Where his father might denounce American empire, Rand asks whether the U.S. really needs hundreds of military bases around the globe. Where Ron might have called for immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan, Rand says that we need to have a national debate on the war and questions whether nation-building is truly conservative. Ron liked to comment on the immorality of U.S. foreign policy. Rand prefers to say we can’t afford it.

[Matt Collins]

Matt, Thanks for giving us a glimpse from the inside. Your work with the help of a 'few of your friends' has given me such pride in my new Senator. I don't know how to repay you for you planning and strategy in getting him elected.Anytime man, anytime :cool:

[Sola_Fide]

You are the legend Collins.

Thanks for the post.

[MRoCkEd]

Amazing, amazing.

[FSP-Rebel]

I think it was the purists among us that had the most problem with Rand going into stealth mode and refusing to accept how he had to repackage his liberty rhetoric to pull through in the primary, and subsequently the general. Politics is politics and I want to add to the hi5s aimed at the Collins and his hard work to make modern history as well as everyone else here and on the ground in KY.

[NewRightLibertarian]

It was pretty obvious from how he was attacked from every conceivable angle after he won the nomination that he was the real deal, in my opinion. I cannot wait until he makes it to the senate!

[Aratus]

we've got roughly a month and a half until november's newbie freshmen are january sworn in!!!

[sailingaway]

major donor?

nevermind....

[BamaFanNKy]

Matt, Thanks for giving us a glimpse from the inside. Your work with the help of a 'few of your friends' has given me such pride in my new Senator. I don't know how to repay you for you planning and strategy in getting him elected.

http://www.mscclan.com/storage/pics/sarcasm_meter.jpg

[bobbyw24]

So, Allison Gibbs was wrong when she yelled that "Rand is a Warmonger" at the Liberty Summit in Orlando in August???

[Matt Collins]

I think it was the purists among us that had the most problem with Rand going into stealth mode and refusing to accept how he had to repackage his liberty rhetoric to pull through in the primary, and subsequently the general. Well, I admit, if I didn't know Rand personally, and if I had not known him prior to his run, I too probably would've been very leery and skeptical, if not outright cynical about him. I would like to think I would've eventually come around to realizing what is now obvious, that Rand indeed is one of us. But trust me when I tell you there were some very serious and well known heavyweights in the movement that shared their concerns with me about Rand's perceived stances, Jack being one of them (he mentions that briefly in the article).

But the honest truth is that it's largely dumb luck that I happen to live about an hour away from Rand. If I was still living full time in Florida, I would not have been as involved for sure, and thus my thoughts about Rand, at least as the campaign progressed, may not have been as strong. So I don't fault anyone for being skeptical about Rand's liberty credentials because he couldn't speak like his father could and still win the election. But for those who were willing to read between the lines, and do an honest comparison, it became increasingly obvious that Rand and Ron are virtually the same.

Just because someone is related to Ron should not give them a free pass to avoid inspection and philosophical scrutiny however. In fact I'm trying to groom Duncan to run for President in a few decades. Duncan and I have similar tastes in music :p


And thanks for your kind words BTW.

[Matt Collins]

So, Allison Gibbs was wrong when she yelled that "Rand is a Warmonger" at the Liberty Summit in Orlando in August???I don't remember that. Of course my attention was elsewhere that evening :p

and LOL at BamaFan replying to his own post trying to get attention at his poorly made and deconstructive point.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

So, Allison Gibbs was wrong when she yelled that "Rand is a Warmonger" at the Liberty Summit in Orlando in August???

Some peoples' delicate sensibilities are offended quite easily. I think the 'purists' wouldn't have liked Rand Paul unless he went on television and purposefully killed his chances with a screed about a "war for oil" and how methamphetamine should be legal.

[acptulsa]

Well, anyone who says the new junior Senator from Kentucky shouldn't even talk to the senior Senator from Kentucky is not only unrealistic, but much too worried about their ability to rub off on others. After all, Rand's dad has been up there in the House for a couple of decades, and he has managed to walk right through the valley of the shadow of death without any evil rubbing off on him.

[sailingaway]

From Jack's article:


Although Rand’s primary campaign had been a war on the Republican establishment as much as on the Democrats, partisanship can sometimes be useful. After the primary, Senator McConnell made peace with the Paul camp, and one campaign staffer relates the story that McConnell told Rand he could cause as much trouble as he liked once he got to the Senate—but he’d better get there. As minority leader, Kentucky’s senior senator had a personal stake in seeing as many GOP Senate nominees as possible succeed.

There you go, Mitch!

Rand's done his part!

[BamaFanNKy]

and LOL at BamaFan replying to his own post trying to get attention at his poorly made and deconstructive point.

LOL at "The Collins" being a "Look at me" persona on this board. Dude, you never were on staff or in the inner circle and neither was I. Stop trying (as you did on a Nashville website) to make it look like you were on staff. It's hard to take you seriously when you do crap like that.


#
Matt Collins writes
November 30th, 2010 1:52 pm

@Mark – I no longer speak directly for Rand and haven’t since the primary back in May, but this issue does not involve him, it’s just that simple.

As for everything else, give it a little bit of time, and see what happens.


YOU NEVER SPOKE FOR RAND! Stop it man. Just stop. It's embarrassing.

[Matt Collins]

LOL at "The Collins" being a "Look at me" persona on this board. Dude, you never were on staff or in the inner circle and neither was I. Stop trying (as you did on a Nashville website) to make it look like you were on staff. It's hard to take you seriously when you do crap like that.

YOU NEVER SPOKE FOR RAND! Stop it man. Just stop. It's embarrassing.Your ignorance is showing :cool:

[BamaFanNKy]

Your ignorance is showing :cool:

So you are saying you were hired by the campaign and they left you off FEC reports? Also, that you were in a role as a spokesperson? Seriously, Matt.... if so, correct me. If not, pretending you were a paid staffer on here is fine but, don't go to other sites and say you 'haven't spoke for Rand since the primary' if you never did.

Call me ignorant but, we both know that I'm not 'in the dark' when it came to who was on staff.

[Matt Collins]

So you are saying you were hired by the campaign and they left you off FEC reports? Also, that you were in a role as a spokesperson? Seriously, Matt.... if so, correct me. If not, pretending you were a paid staffer on here is fine but, don't go to other sites and say you 'haven't spoke for Rand since the primary' if you never did.

Call me ignorant but, we both know that I'm not 'in the dark' when it came to who was on staff.I'm not going to post it publicly, but I'll PM you the details.

[BamaFanNKy]

I'm not going to post it publicly, but I'll PM you the details.

As I said in PM. You did a lot of good as a volunteer and no reason to have a 'look at me' moment all over the internet.

[Matt Collins]

As I said in PM. You did a lot of good as a volunteer and no reason to have a 'look at me' moment all over the internet.And as I said in my response, there are strategic reasons for doing so.

[BamaFanNKy]

And as I said in my response, there are strategic reasons for doing so.


a specific and strategic reason... like making yourself look important?

I can't take credit for that great response sent to me.

[amy31416]

And as I said in my response, there are strategic reasons for doing so.

Strategic ego-stroking sessions.

You (and only you) make it difficult to like you, regardless of how much good you do. It comes off that you're only doing it for the attention and that you consider yourself to be some sort of demi-god in the political arena who must be worshiped.

Not trying to be a "hater," it's just that some day, you should attempt to understand why many people think you've got some bizarre attention complex. And I do understand that even this "bad" press will only serve to titillate you.

[low preference guy]

Strategic ego-stroking sessions.

Not trying to be a "hater," it's just that some day, you should attempt to understand why many people think you've got some bizarre attention complex. And I do understand that even this "bad" press will only serve to titillate you.

understatement? dude has serious problems. too bad i have no clue as to how he can fix it. the legend? what about the joke?

[Matt Collins]

You (and only you) make it difficult to like you, regardless of how much good you do. I don't seem to have a problem with people liking me. MANY people like me.



It comes off that you're only doing it for the attention and that you consider yourself to be some sort of demi-god in the political arena who must be worshiped.If a small handful of people arrive at the wrong conclusions, that's not my problem. I'm not running for office.


Not trying to be a "hater," it's just that some day, you should attempt to understand why many people think you've got some bizarre attention complex. Strangely I am not the one who has turned this entire thread into a discussion about me. :rolleyes:


dude has serious problems. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

[amy31416]

I don't seem to have a problem with people liking me. MANY people like me.


If a small handful of people arrive at the wrong conclusions, that's not my problem. I'm not running for office.

Strangely I am not the one who has turned this entire thread into a discussion about me. :rolleyes:

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

As usual, the point is absolutely lost on you. I'm not sure if it's because of weak intellect or your absurd cravings for attention....or both.

[Ethek]

Matt was not on staff, but I am sure he did have Rands ear more than most, which is not terribly often. Rand did not have many touch-points for the grassroots anyway as he is an island unto himself. Matt, for better or worse was one of them. Go figure. There were a couple of times in the campaign were the hardcore supporters got 'squirrelly'. Matt had a role there. Everyone plays a part. Just my 2 cents

[K Elaine]

Have to say I prefer the written Hunter to the audio Hunter. :)

[low preference guy]

Have to say I prefer the written Hunter to the audio Hunter. :)

i like listening to jack despite the fact he talks like this:

|o____|o_________________|o_|o__
|_____|__________________|__|___
________________________________
_______________|____|__________|
______________o|___o|_________o|
by____the_____southern____avenger

[libertybrewcity]

cool info!

[Matt Collins]

Have to say I prefer the written Hunter to the audio Hunter. :)
I don't understand why so many people hate his audio recordings lol But I've heard a ton of people complain about them.

What's interesting though is that his audio recordings are just him reading a weekly column that he wrote. The SA parody while an unfair attack, is still kind of humorous because it does poke fun at his voice.

[DeadheadForPaul]

So, Allison Gibbs was wrong when she yelled that "Rand is a Warmonger" at the Liberty Summit in Orlando in August???

If she really did that, then she is a bimbo.
She was dating one of the motorhome diaries guys, who identify as anarchists. If she shares their views, then I'm sure she views both Ron and Rand as warmongers since they believe in a state

[Sola_Fide]

If she really did that, then she is a bimbo.
She was dating one of the motorhome diaries guys, who identify as anarchists. If she shares their views, then I'm sure she views both Ron and Rand as warmongers since they believe in a state

It always amazes me that libertarians are the quickest to attack their own rather than focus their critiques for the true authoritarians in this world.

[DeadheadForPaul]

It always amazes me that libertarians are the quickest to attack their own rather than focus their critiques for the true authoritarians in this world.

I'm tired of purists for throwing our liberty candidates under the bus just because the purists misinterpret one comment in the course of a campaign.

Anyone who saw Rand as a warmonger either lacks logic or desperately wants to demonstrate their own ideological purity compared to other libertarians (particularly, our candidates).

I saw so many RPFers hate on Rand for over a year. What did THEY do to help liberty? Not crap except preach to the choir in a little corner of the internet.

Sorry, but I'm sick of the distortions and outright lies about Rand's positions

If she truly yelled that "Rand is a warmonger" across the room at a liberty summit, then she is a joke

[low preference guy]

I'm tired of purists for throwing our liberty candidates under the bus just because the purists misinterpret one comment in the course of a campaign.

Anyone who saw Rand as a warmonger either lacks logic or desperately wants to demonstrate their own ideological purity compared to other libertarians (particularly, our candidates).

I saw so many RPFers hate on Rand for over a year. What did THEY do to help liberty? Not crap except preach to the choir in a little corner of the internet.

Sorry, but I'm sick of the distortions and outright lies about Rand's positions

If she truly yelled that "Rand is a warmonger" across the room at a liberty summit, then she is a joke

well said, Randy!

[BenIsForRon]

Thanks for the info Matt. I always wondered what happened in the Bill Kristol meeting.

[Ricky201]

It always amazes me that libertarians are the quickest to attack their own rather than focus their critiques for the true authoritarians in this world.

There's a saying in healthcare about how nurses eat their own young.

I think the same saying can be applied to libertarians.

[TheTyke]

I'm tired of purists for throwing our liberty candidates under the bus just because the purists misinterpret one comment in the course of a campaign.

Anyone who saw Rand as a warmonger either lacks logic or desperately wants to demonstrate their own ideological purity compared to other libertarians (particularly, our candidates).

I saw so many RPFers hate on Rand for over a year. What did THEY do to help liberty? Not crap except preach to the choir in a little corner of the internet.

Sorry, but I'm sick of the distortions and outright lies about Rand's positions

If she truly yelled that "Rand is a warmonger" across the room at a liberty summit, then she is a joke

This! But even more appallingly, they were usually being manipulated by the media they CLAIM to hate/distrust. Most big "libertarian issue" blowups came not when it was relevant, but rather after the media chose to unleash that particular line of attack. We can't progress until we stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated. We should be the ones who know better, and lead others...

[bobbyw24]

If she really did that, then she is a bimbo.
She was dating one of the motorhome diaries guys, who identify as anarchists. If she shares their views, then I'm sure she views both Ron and Rand as warmongers since they believe in a state

She did say it several times. I was there. Lobby of the Rosen Centre about 2:30 AM August. Kristi Dunn was also there. It was in response to me saying that we should focus on candidates who have a chance like Rand and some of these candidate who had no real chance of winning. My friend chimed in with "you mean Schiff and Kokesh?" and that made her react. She stated several times "Rand is a neo con warmonger who likes Gitmo."

[sailingaway]

I don't understand why so many people hate his audio recordings lol But I've heard a ton of people complain about them.

What's interesting though is that his audio recordings are just him reading a weekly column that he wrote. The SA parody while an unfair attack, is still kind of humorous because it does poke fun at his voice.

I like his audio. He went on with someone, I forget who, Levin or someone, who was hard to listen to in any event. Jack speaking was a real relief. Of course, I'm in southern California, where a southern accent is exotic....

[allisonzayne]

Funny,

I have intentionally never publicly stated my thoughts on Rand. Check the sources.

I would prefer to stay out of Movement Drama.
Thanks.

[allisonzayne]

Don't put words in my mouth and don't ever denote me or any woman in this movement as a bimbo.

I dated Pete, yes. So whomever we date is exactly who we are intrinsicly? Damn, I didn't get that memo.

I am a voluntaryist in my heart, but look at my work before you throw down the gauntlet.
Who we date doesn't make us who we are. Look at my work then open your mouth.

Thanks

[allisonzayne]

I'm tired of purists for throwing our liberty candidates under the bus just because the purists misinterpret one comment in the course of a campaign.

Anyone who saw Rand as a warmonger either lacks logic or desperately wants to demonstrate their own ideological purity compared to other libertarians (particularly, our candidates).

I saw so many RPFers hate on Rand for over a year. What did THEY do to help liberty? Not crap except preach to the choir in a little corner of the internet.

Sorry, but I'm sick of the distortions and outright lies about Rand's positions

If she truly yelled that "Rand is a warmonger" across the room at a liberty summit, then she is a joke

I don't need to defend myself to anyone on this thread. Look at my work.

And I am now a purist?
I helped Adam Kokesh's Campaign, and helped on BJ's but I am a purist?
Wow.

Just because I disagree with someones foreign policy doesn't make me a purist. And the fact that you can attack someone you dont know and generalize them based on whom they dated- well, that explains a lot for me.
I will do my work and focus on expanding the pie of this movement and not be bogged down with Movement drama that splits us. I believe in respecting all sides of the movement, the minarchist, anarchist, everyone. We all have different skills and comparative advantages, why can't we embrace that?

Maybe for some it makes more sense to attach and generalize those that are busting their ass.

I hope you all well and look forward to acheiving liberty with you- no matter what name you give to me and my work.

[MRoCkEd]

Allison, thanks for stopping by.
People were reacting to a quote attributed to you by Bobby. If you in fact did not say it, the posts in this thread were based on a false premise and should therefore be disregarded.

Whatever the case, it's clear from your posts that you don't want to divide the movement, but expand it.

Keep up the good work.

[teacherone]

I don't seem to have a problem with people liking me. MANY people like me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

[JoshLowry]

Allison, thanks for stopping by.
People were reacting to a quote attributed to you by Bobby. If you in fact did not say it, the posts in this thread were based on a false premise and should therefore be disregarded.

Whatever the case, it's clear from your posts that you don't want to divide the movement, but expand it.

Keep up the good work.

+1 Thanks Mark.

Rand isn't a war monger. It was easy to be fooled though. I even wondered what the hell was going on at points. (And we still don't have a voting record.)

The media came up with a number of attacks, one of those was designed to make Paul's base question itself.

[Ekrub]

This thread gets an A+ in the drama department.

[bobbyw24]

Allison, thanks for stopping by.
People were reacting to a quote attributed to you by Bobby. If you in fact did not say it, the posts in this thread were based on a false premise and should therefore be disregarded.

Whatever the case, it's clear from your posts that you don't want to divide the movement, but expand it.

Keep up the good work.

I heard what I heard.

I have no reason to make stuff up as I dont know Ms. Gibbs or Zane, but I know who she is.

In any event, I appreciate her contributions to the C4L.

[Matt Collins]

Bump

[ronpaulfollower999]

First time I've seen this.

Interesting.

[ronpaulfollower999]

This thread gets an A+ in the drama department.

That's typically what I expect when I see "Started by Matt Collins" :D

[FSP-Rebel]

Blast from the past, I'd forgotten all about this. Funny how this thread wasn't completely overrun and 20 pages long... and we didn't even have a voting record yet. Now we do but since Ron is no longer in official political capacity, it seems hip to retire from politics along with him. I can only imagine how some of the margin surfers of today would've freaked out completely over this back then. It is kind of interesting going back down memory lane and seeing some of the posts people made 2 years ago and then check their current status of operation.

[BarryDonegan]

Winning TN for Rand Paul would be effortless. His style is built for KY, and TN is like KY minus the coal and more hard core on guns and states rights. Same region as far as manners and whatnot, which is pretty overwhelmingly critical in southern politics.

[fj45lvr]

Rand says that we need to have a national debate on the war and questions whether nation-building is truly conservative. Ron liked to comment on the immorality of U.S. foreign policy. Rand prefers to say we can’t afford it.

There's the big difference. What if we could afford it?? It is EVIL and IMMORAL period.

[Brett85]

There's the big difference. What if we could afford it?? It is EVIL and IMMORAL period.

It is a big difference, which is why Ron always pissed off the conservative base and couldn't get their votes. Rand is a lot smarter than that. I don't know why you can't see that.

[Indy Vidual]

So now we know the truth?

[fj45lvr]

It is a big difference, which is why Ron always pissed off the conservative base and couldn't get their votes. Rand is a lot smarter than that. I don't know why you can't see that.

You're saying he is a liar and I don't believe it.....either way bad juju

[Brett85]

You're saying he is a liar and I don't believe it.....either way bad juju

I'm saying that the only thing that matters is the actual policy, not the way the policy is sold.

[kathy88]

Oh look Collins bumping his old threads. How unusual.