Do you guys know anyone that is so clueless they cannot be convinced?

[ForeverAlone]

I just had a discussion with my boss about politics today. It was bad. Real bad. Most of it was due to him being a socialist authoritarian, but I'll admit some of it was me because I wasn't prepared to debate him.

He was talking about how there shouldn't be a limit to how much of your income can be taxed for Social Security (right now, they tax you up to a little over 100,000, I think). Then he said that rich people should be taxed for SS on their entire income and then not be eligible for any of it in retirement. Of course I disagreed and gave him an explanation that it is a ponzi scheme, and it is unsustainable. And currently we are reaching the tipping point.

Okay, it was a long conversation, so I'll just give a couple more things he said.

I told him that I support free markets. He said that if we had a free market I would be making $100 a month. FACEPALM

Then he said communism was a really good idea, just that it was never executed the right way. DOUBLE FACEPALM

I am thoroughly convince that he will always be clueless. Never discussing politics again with him. Luckily, he's a nice guy so he won't fire me for disagreeing with him.

[Jordan]

Most of the "clueless" people I run into are the people who are scared of anything, and think the world's finite resources can solve every problem simultaneously.

If you were to tell them that 25 people die each year from swallowing chewing gum, they'd probably approve of a $500 Billion advertising campaign to tell people not to swallow their bubble gum.

People don't understand numbers or their relationship with one another.

[FrankRep]

Ask him if he has actually read the Communist Manifesto. I bet he hasn't.

[Lucille]

Way too many. This, even while it's collapsing all over the planet!

A majority of Democrats and liberals say they have a positive view of socialism according to a recent Gallup poll. That socialist majority of the left is about 36% of the US. (http://usactionnews.com/2010/11/gallup-poll-democrats-are-mostly-socialists/)

[Travlyr]

I just had a discussion with my boss about politics today. It was bad. Real bad. Most of it was due to him being a socialist authoritarian, but I'll admit some of it was me because I wasn't prepared to debate him.

He was talking about how there shouldn't be a limit to how much of your income can be taxed for Social Security (right now, they tax you up to a little over 100,000, I think). Then he said that rich people should be taxed for SS on their entire income and then not be eligible for any of it in retirement. Of course I disagreed and gave him an explanation that it is a ponzi scheme, and it is unsustainable. And currently we are reaching the tipping point.

Okay, it was a long conversation, so I'll just give a couple more things he said.

I told him that I support free markets. He said that if we had a free market I would be making $100 a month. FACEPALM

Then he said communism was a really good idea, just that it was never executed the right way. DOUBLE FACEPALM

I am thoroughly convince that he will always be clueless. Never discussing politics again with him. Luckily, he's a nice guy so he won't fire me for disagreeing with him.
Free markets use real money. $100 a month if they are silver dollars is what ~ $2500 tax free ... if it wasn't illegal, I'd do it.

[ForeverAlone]

God Damn IT. I'm pissed. How are people on the left so fucking clueless? Somehow the rich business owners and entrepreneurs who employ people and produce goods and services that people want or need are demonized, but they never fucking complain about athletes, movie stars, rock stars, or Oprah (the most useless bitch in America) even though they are rich yet don't produce anything other than entertainment.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Do you guys know anyone that is so clueless they cannot be convinced?

All the time, even on this very forum. Still waiting to see a business plan for liberty since many people reject strategic direct citizen action, such as geographical organization, because liberty is not important enough to move for.

We are as free as we want to be but no one wants to hear or believe that shit because freedom is not free.

[kahless]

Never good to discuss politics with people you have to work with that decide your future salary. I do not think you can change peoples minds whose core beliefs are Socialist.

I kept my views to myself yet my last boss for a couple years had been trying to pull it out of me. I finally gave into the discussion and believe the discussion strained our relationship. He was a hardcore Socialist, Obamabot, with a typical Hollywood view of politics.

He was knowlegable on politics since it effected our business yet when I provided him direct quotes from Obama and healthcare legislation that would damage our business, he thought I was just making it up. He believed I had been brainwashed by Republican talk show hosts.

[cswake]

Never good to discuss politics with people you have to work with that decide your future salary.+1, qft, unless they do agree with you, then you might get a bonus. :)


God Damn IT. I'm pissed. How are people on the left so fucking clueless?Don't get on the holier-than-thou bandwagon, both the left and the right think the same things of us when it comes to certain issues.

[dannno]

I told him that I support free markets. He said that if we had a free market I would be making $100 a month. FACEPALM

In a free market, if he offered you $100 a month you would go work for somebody who offered you more...

[Jordan]

God Damn IT. I'm pissed. How are people on the left so fucking clueless? Somehow the rich business owners and entrepreneurs who employ people and produce goods and services that people want or need are demonized, but they never fucking complain about athletes, movie stars, rock stars, or Oprah (the most useless bitch in America) even though they are rich yet don't produce anything other than entertainment.

Entertainment, according to the market, is just as valuable as the people who play sports. Don't play that game.

The Patriots football team is estimated to be worth $1.2 billion. The free market has said it is worth more than say...Bob Evans and Jack in the Box. Those companies, you could argue "keep millions of people from starving!" but are valued less than a bunch of adult men throwing a football.

[Travlyr]

http://mises.org/media/1203

[NYgs23]

Practically everyone I know is so clueless they cannot be convinced.

[Pericles]

All the time, even on this very forum. Still waiting to see a business plan for liberty since many people reject strategic direct citizen action, such as geographical organization, because liberty is not important enough to move for.

We are as free as we want to be but no one wants to hear or believe that shit because freedom is not free.

This /\ In the aggregate of the US, I'd say there are about 150 million, give or take. If I do not protect the liberty of others, I will soon lose mine.

+rep for you

[Chieppa1]

No one I know gets it on the level of most of us on this board. Some get enough for me, as in they would vote for Ron and understand we have a 1 party system. I avoid clueless liberals/neo-cons. I just put myself out there, and eventually something happens that topples their "house of cards" for even a day, and I usually interject something. It does work over time.

[Carole]

http://mises.org/media/1203

Thanks so much for that link.

That was an amazing performance by Dr. Paul in that debate. :)

[noxagol]

My parents. I turned two of my brothers, the third just couldn't care less. Slowly me and my younger brother are turning my dad, slowly slowly.

[Travlyr]

Thanks so much for that link.

That was an amazing performance by Dr. Paul in that debate. :)

You are welcome Carole. :)

I am expecting the good Dr. Ron Paul's new book "Liberty Defined" (http://www.hachettebookgroup.com/books_9781455501458.htm) to include much of what he talks about in this impassioned speech/debate. :cool:
http://mises.org/media/1203

[Heimdallr]

I just had a discussion with my boss about politics today. It was bad. Real bad. Most of it was due to him being a socialist authoritarian, but I'll admit some of it was me because I wasn't prepared to debate him.

He was talking about how there shouldn't be a limit to how much of your income can be taxed for Social Security (right now, they tax you up to a little over 100,000, I think). Then he said that rich people should be taxed for SS on their entire income and then not be eligible for any of it in retirement. Of course I disagreed and gave him an explanation that it is a ponzi scheme, and it is unsustainable. And currently we are reaching the tipping point.

Okay, it was a long conversation, so I'll just give a couple more things he said.

I told him that I support free markets. He said that if we had a free market I would be making $100 a month. FACEPALM

Then he said communism was a really good idea, just that it was never executed the right way. DOUBLE FACEPALM

I am thoroughly convince that he will always be clueless. Never discussing politics again with him. Luckily, he's a nice guy so he won't fire me for disagreeing with him.

How is he your boss? Why does he even work for the Bourgeoisie Machine? Wtf?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

I just had a discussion with my boss about politics today. It was bad. Real bad. Most of it was due to him being a socialist authoritarian, but I'll admit some of it was me because I wasn't prepared to debate him.

He was talking about how there shouldn't be a limit to how much of your income can be taxed for Social Security (right now, they tax you up to a little over 100,000, I think). Then he said that rich people should be taxed for SS on their entire income and then not be eligible for any of it in retirement. Of course I disagreed and gave him an explanation that it is a ponzi scheme, and it is unsustainable. And currently we are reaching the tipping point.

Okay, it was a long conversation, so I'll just give a couple more things he said.

I told him that I support free markets. He said that if we had a free market I would be making $100 a month. FACEPALM

Then he said communism was a really good idea, just that it was never executed the right way. DOUBLE FACEPALM

I am thoroughly convince that he will always be clueless. Never discussing politics again with him. Luckily, he's a nice guy so he won't fire me for disagreeing with him.

Would you be convinced if I said that you had to give up medical insurance as a so-called benefit? What if all the companies in the United States convened to agree upon slashing the entitlement of medical benefits across the board for all employees from top to bottom? Well, you would probably balk just like a liberal.
Look, money is the underlying motivation. Unfortunately, most money existing today is counterfeit.
If you are a true American patriot, then you are willing to give up all your wealth just as our soldiers lay down their lives for the sake of our nation. If not, then you are no better than a loyalist.

[LisaNY]

Practically everyone I know is so clueless they cannot be convinced.


Me too. Just this morning my dumb ass hairdresser said he doesn't pay attention to politics because it's "too depressing".

[anaconda]

Regarding the OP:

It's even worse than the people being clueless. The clueless are often a bit more open minded but simply don't care.

What bugs me is all of the fairly bright and passionate people that are in some weird form of denial, and who build their self image of their citizenship around some really fallacious sound bite type bits and pieces. And, when shown evidence, will find some way (often some form of humor) to skirt the issues and stay confined in the prison walls in their minds.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Me too. Just this morning my dumb ass hairdresser said he doesn't pay attention to politics because it's "too depressing".

The best ass to ride is a dumb one. I once tried riding a smart ass and spent most of the day arguing with it. Being a liberal, the damned thing kept leaning to the left when looking back to address me. Of course, this caused us to circle around endlessly.

[CCTelander]

All the time, even on this very forum. Still waiting to see a business plan for liberty since many people reject strategic direct citizen action, such as geographical organization, because liberty is not important enough to move for.

We are as free as we want to be but no one wants to hear or believe that shit because freedom is not free.


This, especially the bold parts.

One thing I'm rapidly becoming convinced of is that when freedom does come, and it will, it will probably be IN SPITE OF the so-called "liberty movement," not because of it.

[anaconda]

This, especially the bold parts.

One thing I'm rapidly becoming convinced of is that when freedom does come, and it will, it will probably be IN SPITE OF the so-called "liberty movement," not because of it.

Interesting idea. But I think Ron Paul is right when he says that when the shit hits the fan the People will be in a vulnerable position and may yield to big government propaganda to "save" them. So, I think that the work and gains we are making may create just enough brush fires of the mind to tip the scales in our favor. Without the burgeoning liberty movement (the real actual one..the Ron and Rand one..) I think the statists and NWO types would be well situated for the win. But not any more. Don't despair. We are doing really well!

[Marenco]

These quotes were true in the Roman and Greek times and they are still spot on to this day.

"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master."
- Sallust

"Just because you do not take an interest in politics
doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."- Pericles

[Michigan11]

Regarding the OP:

It's even worse than the people being clueless. The clueless are often a bit more open minded but simply don't care.

What bugs me is all of the fairly bright and passionate people that are in some weird form of denial, and who build their self image of their citizenship around some really fallacious sound bite type bits and pieces. And, when shown evidence, will find some way (often some form of humor) to skirt the issues and stay confined in the prison walls in their minds.

That is a great post. You're a good American. :D

[Pericles]

These quotes were true in the Roman and Greek times and they are still spot on to this day.

"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master."
- Sallust

"Just because you do not take an interest in politics
doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."- Pericles


Good quotes!:D

[fisharmor]

$100 at original dollar value would be a little under 5 ounces of gold, which at today's spot price is the equivalent of about $83k per year of Bernanke monopoly money. Boss fail.


My father-in-law is married to a real winner who is not only not playing with a full deck, but is real prone to take things personally.

My favorite conversation with her was when she was defending state intervention by relating a story of how her home town got their local public library - her mother went around and took donations and pieced it together by herself.

"Wait... no, hold on... are you arguing for state intervention by giving me an example of why it's not necessary?"
"Well, it was so very hard for her - it was a lot of work!"
"Ok, so do we give everything that's hard work over to the state?"
"Well...."
"And tell me, did your hometown have a high school? Did it have a library? Was there a college anywhere nearby? Did it have a library? Were there any private libraries? What the hell is so great about libraries that not only do we need to have the state fund them, but we need to have the state enforce the idea that nobody can use anyone else's library???"

I did not win a whole lot of points that night. She's the type of person who has had personal experiences and had an initial reaction to those experiences, and that reaction was laser etched on a plate of tungsten carbide and is NOT going to be reevaluated.

[awake]

Your position should be not to convince everybody, only those who wish to be.