PPP: Ron Paul Hits Double-Digit Mark in Michigan 2012 Poll

[Epic]

But when it comes to who GOP voters in the state want as their nominee Romney can only muster a tie with Mike Huckabee at 22%, with Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich just a little further back at 18% and 15% respectively. Ron Paul actually hits double digits in Michigan at 10%, with Tim Pawlenty at 3%, Mitch Daniels at 2%, and John Thune at 1% rounding out the Republican field.

Romney 22
Huckabee 22
Palin 18
Gingrich 15
Paul 10
Pawlenty 3
Daniels 2
Thune 1

RP gets 22% of those 18-29. 15% of those 30-45, but just 2% of those over 65.

Age gap!

[Matt Collins]

Well the older demographics are the one who tend to vote more than the others.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Damn it, still fifth place though.

[hazek]

RP gets 22% of those 18-29. 15% of those 30-45, but just 2% of those over 65.

Age gap!

I think this is a very important information. The 65+ are worried. They are worried about their retirement money, they are worried about their medical care and they are worried about their safety.

They don't give a rats ass about freedom. They just want an easy face off from the world when their times comes. And they're the majority when it comes to actually voting.


How does one solve this problem?

[cswake]

Generational warfare?

[Epic]

The good(?) thing is that:

1. Well, some of those older people will pass away, and newer younger people will become 18.

2. People 18-45 is who works on campaigns, so if Mitt Romney has the 65+ locked up, they aren't always real social creatures that influence pop culture and go knock on doors, etc.

[Heimdallr]

Nonetheless everyone, this tells us that we REALLY gotta get more older people.

[LatinsforPaul]

Well the older demographics are the one who tend to vote more than the others.

For 2012, we need to target the older demographics with something other than the internet. Radio and TV is the only way for them to open their eyes and see the truth.

I hope FreedomWatch and Stossel are being viewed by the older folks, somewhat at least.

[TheTyke]

This is awesome!! We're off to an amazing start this time.

I think (hope) Ron's campaign will handle the media strategy better this time, since they'll actually be expecting the support. Though the earlier we start getting them money the better. We've got so much more going for us this time...

[Lucille]

I think the older people been sufficiently scared by the right and left saying how he would leave them in the dust wrt Medicare/SS (which he would not).

[tremendoustie]

I think this is a very important information. The 65+ are worried. They are worried about their retirement money, they are worried about their medical care and they are worried about their safety.

They don't give a rats ass about freedom. They just want an easy face off from the world when their times comes. And they're the majority when it comes to actually voting.


How does one solve this problem?

Wait 20 years?

[nate895]

This is great news!

[TCE]

Newspaper as well for the older generations. Think up some good talking points they'll like, such as the only candidate who pledges to keep Social Security sustainable by disallowing Congress or the President to spend a penny of it. Put it in some of their media, and we should see our percentage go up. That is still too little for young people, too. Especially considering most don't end up voting. Good start, but much we can work on.

[rprprs]

Wait 20 years?

At which time there will be even more old people.
(with the same issues and concerns.)

[Bruehound]

In an early crowded field 10% is absolutely freakin' fantastic. Where was McInsane polling at this stage of the last cycle. 10% is where we start from. Good news.

[jmdrake]

For 2012, we need to target the older demographics with something other than the internet. Radio and TV is the only way for them to open their eyes and see the truth.

I hope FreedomWatch and Stossel are being viewed by the older folks, somewhat at least.

How about volunteers campaigning at retirement centers? The old folks would be happy to just have the company.

[nate895]

In an early crowded field 10% is absolutely freakin' fantastic. Where was McInsane polling at this stage of the last cycle. 10% is where we start from. Good news.

He wasn't doing all that bad. He was in the 20's and was with Giuliani. He then kind of imploded over the spring and summer of '07, and languished until the NH primary.

[kahless]

The Romney being on top thing is just so infuriating. People seem to be actually still voting based on his looks, presentation and/or solely on his Mormon background. Mandatory healthcare Romney, what a fucking Massachusetts disaster. But these idiots are voting for him in polls.

[low preference guy]

The Romney being on top thing is just so infuriating. People seem to be actually still voting based on his looks, presentation and/or solely on his Mormon background. Mandatory healthcare Romney, what a fucking Massachusetts disaster. But these idiots are voting for him in polls.

i don't think people are paying attention yet. i give him 0% of chances of winning the republican nomination.

[erowe1]

Where was McInsane polling at this stage of the last cycle?

At this point in 2006 McCain was the favorite to win the GOP nomination. He started slipping in early 2008 to the point that it looked like he was about kaput in the Spring of 2007. But when the race first started he was the presumed nominee and had been since 2000.

[Matt Collins]

For 2012, we need to target the older demographics with something other than the internet. Radio and TV is the only way for them to open their eyes and see the truth. No, Rand's campaign made me a believer of direct mail.

[nate895]

The Romney being on top thing is just so infuriating. People seem to be actually still voting based on his looks, presentation and/or solely on his Mormon background. Mandatory healthcare Romney, what a fucking Massachusetts disaster. But these idiots are voting for him in polls.

He's from Michigan originally. His dad was a hugely popular governor there, and his wife is also from an important Michigander family, I believe.

[SilentBull]

Ron really needs to repeat over and over, that we need to cut spending so we can take care of the seniors that have become dependent on the government. He really needs to emphasize this. It's the truth, but he doesn't emphasize it enough.

[Jordan]

No, Rand's campaign made me a believer of direct mail.

Kentucky is different than other states because all of its media markets have populations mostly in other states. The northwest KY market, for example, is made up more of IN and IL residents than KY. Obviously, that makes targeted advertising like direct mail way more appealing.

On topic: The old vote is the one we need the most, but the least likely one we'll attract. If you talk to a senior citizen about RP2012, for the love of god relate everything to social security and don't talk about how RP wants to phase it out, or how he believes it's unconstitutional.

[UtahApocalypse]

Looks like I'm going to speak too many elders in the coming year.

[sailingaway]

It isn't exactly the first time he's hit double digits... they don't have to sound so condescending about it.....

[kahless]

He's from Michigan originally. His dad was a hugely popular governor there, and his wife is also from an important Michigander family, I believe.

I see I forgot to add "name recognition" and "blood relation to prior politician" to the list of stupid reasons why people vote for a candidate. Even if he does come down in the polls I suspect Bloomberg will eventually take his top spot soley because of name recognition.

[DjLoTi]

I think Michigan is one of the key states for Ron. I know a lot of people in Michigan, and I think there is real strong potential for Ron to win in Mi for '12. The campaign really messed it up in 2008. I don't think the key to winning MI is running ads. I think the key to winning is by reaching out to people. I would love to do work in Michigan because I think I could help a lot in the campaign there. I think Paul has a lot of potential upside in MI, but it's going to take hard work and real campaigning. Ron Paul can win Michigan, Iowa, and Nevada, we just need to work really hard and engage in a new type of national political atmosphere

[libertybrewcity]

early state and very important.

[Son of Detroit]

I'll be in my first year of college during the potential run. I'll be doing all I can to help Ron win this state.

[TonyFromTheBronx]

guys...not to be a downer....but you have to realize that an anti war libertarian has zero chance in a GOP primary.

the objective here should be for Ron to make waves....(10-15%)....and then throw his support to a charismatic third party candidate.....

[DjLoTi]

Sorry Tony. That sounds like a massive waste of time

[TonyFromTheBronx]

Sorry Tony. That sounds like a massive waste of time

maybe so....but forget about electing Ron in the GOP. I know these warmongering assholes and these greedy seniors.

He'd have a better chance if he broke with the GOP....but he wont do that.

[DjLoTi]

I think Ron Paul represents what the GOP should stand for. Everyone else is just the failure.

[TheTyke]

In Kentucky, everyone told us Rand couldn't win the primary. Even 30+ year liberty activists told us it was a waste of our time and he should set our sights on a lower office...

We ended up crushing his Establishment opponent by 24% in a statewide race. Don't tell me what's not possible... Believe, and be the one that makes it happen, whatever it takes!

[specsaregood]

Newspaper as well for the older generations. Think up some good talking points they'll like, such as the only candidate who pledges to keep Social Security sustainable by disallowing Congress or the President to spend a penny of it. Put it in some of their media, and we should see our percentage go up. That is still too little for young people, too. Especially considering most don't end up voting. Good start, but much we can work on.

A Ron Paul ad, designed as a crossword puzzle put in the newspaper. That would be the trick. Put one in weekly for months....

[Kregisen]

A Ron Paul ad, designed as a crossword puzzle put in the newspaper. That would be the trick. Put one in weekly for months....

lol

[libertybrewcity]

maybe so....but forget about electing Ron in the GOP. I know these warmongering assholes and these greedy seniors.

He'd have a better chance if he broke with the GOP....but he wont do that.

clearly you don't know ron paul and the electoral system. let me explain.

1. Third party candidates don't win and will never win. the constitution mandates a presidential candidate to have 270 electoral votes to win. ross perot had about 20% of the vote, hundreds of millions of dollars, and failed to get one electoral vote.

2. Ron Paul has said repeatedly that the best way to win is by influencing the republican party. that is what thousands of people have been doing, and look what happened! We got a liberty candidate in the senate, Rand Paul. If Rand would have ran as a libertarian? well, fail.

3. Ron Paul would immediately lose his chairmanship of the monetary subcommittee, ruining his 30 years of work and wait. fail

that last one should make things real clear to you if you care at all.

[libertybrewcity]

A Ron Paul ad, designed as a crossword puzzle put in the newspaper. That would be the trick. Put one in weekly for months....

given that ron paulers are much more intelligent than liberals or republicans, i don't think others would be capable. just kidding, but really.

[TonyFromTheBronx]

clearly you don't know ron paul and the electoral system. let me explain.

1. Third party candidates don't win and will never win. the constitution mandates a presidential candidate to have 270 electoral votes to win. ross perot had about 20% of the vote, hundreds of millions of dollars, and failed to get one electoral vote.

2. Ron Paul has said repeatedly that the best way to win is by influencing the republican party. that is what thousands of people have been doing, and look what happened! We got a liberty candidate in the senate, Rand Paul. If Rand would have ran as a libertarian? well, fail.

3. Ron Paul would immediately lose his chairmanship of the monetary subcommittee, ruining his 30 years of work and wait. fail

that last one should make things real clear to you if you care at all.

that may all be so....but the fact remains....GOP primary voters consist mainly of warmongering, greedy, authority worshipping, selfish senior citizens. Ron may win a few states......but not the primary majority.

That said, i will fight and donate 100%...cuz a strong showing moves us forward. I just afraid that we dont enough time before the country is completely f****d and beyond saving.

[trey4sports]

It's all about shifting the paradigm and influencing ideas. I'm still pessimistic we can win the primary but i assure you that Ron Paul will be looked at as someone way ahead of his time. It's not easy being the only sane person in Washington

[TCE]

that may all be so....but the fact remains....GOP primary voters consist mainly of warmongering, greedy, authority worshipping, selfish senior citizens. Ron may win a few states......but not the primary majority.

That said, i will fight and donate 100%...cuz a strong showing moves us forward. I just afraid that we dont enough time before the country is completely f****d and beyond saving.

He won't win even one electoral vote as an Independent, he'll just allow Obama to win easily, thus causing us to be hated by the GOP for 10 years. Just ask Nader and the Green Party how the Democrats feel about them. We are trading vanity in one Presidential Election for any possible future.

On one of libertybrew's points, we need to look at influencing both parties, not just the GOP. That is Ron Paul's censored opinion, because if he tells his supporters to start entering into the Democrats' politics, well, he won't be welcomed back into the GOP with open arms.

[Thomas]

added to the poll tracker:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=270754

[JK/SEA]

and these greedy seniors.

.

You talkin' to me? i'm 60, and was a State delegate for Ron in 08.
Where do you get off namecalling like that....punk..;)...:D

[Eric21ND]

Polls this early are nothing more than name recognition.

[trey4sports]

Expanding on what Eric said, 10% is very good this early for Ron Paul. If you would have asked me just 3 months ago I would have told you that getting 10% overall in the primary for Ron would have been about what I expect. Now the fact that were consistently getting 7% or so starting out has me very excited.

It's also important to remember that this is a war of attrition so to speak, our ideas inspire people and generate buzz. It's kind of like the avalanche effect. Once it gets rolling it just keeps gaining speed. Our 7% is more enthused, energetic and intellectual than the other 93% combined.

[invisible]

Being only 12 points down to tie the two front runners? This is great news! As noted, MI is one of the earliest and thus most important states to win. Looking at how flip, the huckster, and Ron did in the early states last time, it seems like Ron has the potential to place at least third in all of them, many third place finishes were close. The honest pollsters (and important straw polls) have proven to be pretty accurate, like it or not. This poll obviously shows that Ron needs to increase support among seniors, which will bring up the middle age bracket as well.

It has also been noted that more lessons were learned in the campaigns of 2010. Matt brought up the specific example of direct mail. Specs brought up the crossword puzzle idea, which really IS an excellent idea. In my experience as well, many seniors enjoy crosswords and puzzles. How expensive would it be to insert the Unofficial Ron Paul 2012 Crossword advertisement into the comics / crossword page of two or three statewide newspapers? It would be possible to go after the specific demographic (seniors) as well as used to generate overall early publicity and thus standing in the polls. Combining these ideas could include a second crossword or puzzle in a targeted mailing later on.

And of course, most importantly, is that the campaigns of the last two elections have all been a lot of fun. Continuing the momentum of Ron's 2008 run will only continue the fun. And with that in mind,

3 down: Social security can be saved by balancing the ___ A: budget
4 across: The government works best when it follows the ___ A: Constitution
6 down: Eliminating the income tax would abolish this government agency __ A: IRS

How much more fun could it get for 2012 than to kick it off with the Unofficial Ron Paul 2012 Crossword? Does anyone else think that this would also have the potential to go viral?

[TheTyke]

I really really like the idea of the crossword too...! It's incredibly inventive and fun... and as pointed out, a lot of seniors I know like them. It'd have to be weighed for cost benefit, but it is surely cheaper than a blimp? :P

[Epic]

Averaging the state polls we are at about 7% overall.

Higher in Pennsylvania, Michigan, New Hampshire, Montana, Alaska, Arizona

Lower in Massachusetts, Missouri

[UtahApocalypse]

Being only 12 points down to tie the two front runners? This is great news! As noted, MI is one of the earliest and thus most important states to win. Looking at how flip, the huckster, and Ron did in the early states last time, it seems like Ron has the potential to place at least third in all of them, many third place finishes were close. The honest pollsters (and important straw polls) have proven to be pretty accurate, like it or not. This poll obviously shows that Ron needs to increase support among seniors, which will bring up the middle age bracket as well.

It has also been noted that more lessons were learned in the campaigns of 2010. Matt brought up the specific example of direct mail. Specs brought up the crossword puzzle idea, which really IS an excellent idea. In my experience as well, many seniors enjoy crosswords and puzzles. How expensive would it be to insert the Unofficial Ron Paul 2012 Crossword advertisement into the comics / crossword page of two or three statewide newspapers? It would be possible to go after the specific demographic (seniors) as well as used to generate overall early publicity and thus standing in the polls. Combining these ideas could include a second crossword or puzzle in a targeted mailing later on.

And of course, most importantly, is that the campaigns of the last two elections have all been a lot of fun. Continuing the momentum of Ron's 2008 run will only continue the fun. And with that in mind,

3 down: Social security can be saved by balancing the ___ A: budget
4 across: The government works best when it follows the ___ A: Constitution
6 down: Eliminating the income tax would abolish this government agency __ A: IRS

How much more fun could it get for 2012 than to kick it off with the Unofficial Ron Paul 2012 Crossword? Does anyone else think that this would also have the potential to go viral?


I really really like the idea of the crossword too...! It's incredibly inventive and fun... and as pointed out, a lot of seniors I know like them. It'd have to be weighed for cost benefit, but it is surely cheaper than a blimp? :P


hope you don't mind, I started a thread for this epic idea: Ron Paul 2012 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=3025019#post3025019)Crossword

[invisible]

Averaging the state polls we are at about 7% overall.

Higher in Pennsylvania, Michigan, New Hampshire, Montana, Alaska, Arizona

Lower in Massachusetts, Missouri

Of the higher states, MI and NH are most important because they are early states. Along with the 2008 results, this poll shows that Ron could place in the top 3 in MI if support among seniors was increased. A similar potential exists in IA, where Ron was 3% shy of a top 3 finish in 2008. These early polls are showing what demographics need to be targeted, and it obviously makes sense to use cheap targeted advertising in the early states.

MA has a solid lock for flip, with quite a bit of the home territory effect spilling over into NH. While MA isn't an early state, this is important in NH, just as it is with the huckster in IA where one candidate has the support of a huge chunk of overall voters.

The cost benefit of a targeted ad (which could easily be incorporated into a piece of direct mail at a later time) in the form of a crossword puzzle would be excellent. How many major statewide newspapers in MI can there possibly be? A newspaper advertisement the size of a crossword puzzle won't be very expensive at all, most of the cost would tend to go towards placement (it needs to be on the same page as the regular crossword puzzle that day) rather than size. This could be done with hundreds of dollars, rather than the hundreds of thousands that was spent on the blimp. Another benefit is that the idea IS so inventive, low cost, and FUN, it has the potential to go viral in other media (internet, other msm reporting the ad buy) with not much more than a press release prior to publication. The idea can also be expanded into other early states where polls show seniors need to be targeted, and tweaked for issues important for that state (economy questions would play well in MI, religious voters targeted in IA, etc). Also unlike the blimp, the cost is modular with regards to expansion, rather than having a huge up front cost to get the idea off the ground and expand it. (pun not intentional)

[AGRP]

Generational warfare?

Technological warfare.

The older generations are dependent on TV/Fox/Network News.

99% of my knowledge of liberty/Ron Paul came from YouTube.

[libertybrewcity]

that may all be so....but the fact remains....GOP primary voters consist mainly of warmongering, greedy, authority worshipping, selfish senior citizens. Ron may win a few states......but not the primary majority.

That said, i will fight and donate 100%...cuz a strong showing moves us forward. I just afraid that we dont enough time before the country is completely f****d and beyond saving.

okay, he is at 7% nationwide and this could easily increase with all of our 100% donations and support. i just don't understand how and why no one understands that an independent can not and will not win. the system was literally set up by our founding fathers so this would not happen. the electoral system makes it so a two party system is necessary. seriously, think about it for a second

a candidate needs 270 electoral votes to win. so if ron wins 100 votes, and the rest are split between the major parties, the president is chosen by the house of representatives which would elect the republican. again, ron paul will have no chance as an independent. there is just no choice for optimism. logically, and realistically it would not work and never happen.

[pcosmar]

Technological warfare.

The older generations are dependent on TV/Fox/Network News.

99% of my knowledge of liberty/Ron Paul came from YouTube.

And I was given a Cook Book by a friend of my mother. A 96 yr old lady that does not own a computer. She knew who Ron Paul was.
There was another elder lady that was in a video, when Anuzis got his smack down.
The Lady had fire. Don't discount some of the wiser folks.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1354/928341975_561fb8c98c_z.jpg?zz=1
Michigan was well on it's way to giving Dr.Paul a win in 2008. Before the Campaign in Michigan was sabotaged. There is a lot of support here.

Get Paul Garfield back. (why was he fired?)

[invisible]

The cookbook is also a great idea for targeted advertising for seniors. How would the distribution costs compare to a crossword puzzle ad? How effective was it for Ron in the Congressional run it was used for? What other early states have the potential of a top 3 finish with increased support from seniors? What can be done (or has been done) to guard against getting screwed again in MI and NV (both crucial early states)?

[tremendoustie]

I really like the crossword puzzle idea.