Should we continue to call ourselves Capitalists?

[Vessol]

Just a quick question that's been on my mind a little while. Recently when talking with others about my economic beliefs and political views, I've called myself a "proponent of the free market". Sure it doesn't roll right off the tongue, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense then calling myself a capitalist.

Capitalism, as I'm sure the majority of you know, is a term coined by Karl Marx. It's derogatory term really.

Calling ourselves Capitalists is like a black person calling themselves a "******". Sure, many do call themselves this, but it's usually in parody or whatnot. Yet we use 'capitalism' completely straight faced.

Your own ideas?

[Heimdallr]

Free Marketeers?

[Vessol]

Free Marketeers?

Sounds too much like Three Musketeers D:

[farrar]

well, i see capitalism as voluntary trade. Economic and social liberty are directly related to one another so... maybe voluntarism is may work for that capacity (even if it is also used for somthing else).

[Kludge]

I quit calling myself a capitalist about a year ago because it sounds like a philosophy centered around money. I'm not interested in the pragmatic effects of capitalism on the GDP or making the most money possible -- I'm interested in reducing regulations. I'm interested in freedom. The only label I take seriously for myself anymore is libertarian.

[FrankRep]

It's true that the term "Capitalist" is a loaded and ambiguous. Even Communists are Capitalists because the State owns the Capital.

I like Free Enterprise.

[Heimdallr]

Sounds too much like Three Musketeers D:

I bet they were capitalists...


I like Free Enterprise.


-ists.

[Travlyr]

I vote yes; "capitalist" is an honorable title regarding liberty and prosperity.

capital (n.)
early 15c., "a capital letter," from capital (adj.). The meaning "capital city" is first recorded 1660s (the O.E. word was heafodstol). The financial sense (1610s) is from L.L. capitale "stock, property," neut. of capitalis.

It is quite accurate to call someone a "capitalist" if he/she uses property (capital) to produce goods to trade. Farmers, manufacturers, inventors, businesspersons, producers are all capitalists.

[FrankRep]

I vote yes; "capitalist" is an honorable title regarding liberty and prosperity.

capital (n.)
early 15c., "a capital letter," from capital (adj.). The meaning "capital city" is first recorded 1660s (the O.E. word was heafodstol). The financial sense (1610s) is from L.L. capitale "stock, property," neut. of capitalis.

It is quite accurate to call someone a "capitalist" if he/she uses property (capital) to produce goods to trade. Farmers, manufacturers, inventors, businesspersons, producers are all capitalists.

Communists are also Capitalists.
(The question is: Who owns the Capital?)

[Agorism]

Or say you're anti-big brother (economic stuff is included in this)

[Travlyr]

Communists are also Capitalists.
(The question is: Who owns the Capital?)
I agree. Whoever owns the capital is the capitalist. That is why I constantly argue for allodial title to land. Capital in the hands of individuals promotes freedom and prosperity.

[awake]

No matter what term anyone can come up with the socialists can use it to further their arguments. Capitalist is a derogatory term by Marx, but a lasting one none the less.

I like free exchange, but a socialist can say he's for that too, as long as the government is free to do all the exchanges.

[SeanKim]

Capitalist.

[susano]

Good question, OP. Once upon a time words had definitions. They don't seem to anymore. When I first learned about the Fed and what money is (1980), the people in the movement encouraged us all to get a certain dictionary from the 1800s. Wish I had. Not that it would probably matter, though, because all parties need to understand the definitions.

I must admit that I don't know what "capitalist" actually means. What I used to think it meant was free exchange of money without govt interference. Well, that can't be. Then, later, I came to understand it more like the word "income", i.e., making money on money or other people's labor/production, rather than earning money directly on one's talent and labor. What does capiatalist really mean? I don't mean what people would like it to mean.

All I know is that I want a monet system completely independent of banksters, with instinsic value. The money system as laid out in our Constitution as far government goes. If people want to trade bad paper, I don't care, I just don't want to be required to accept it.

I don't recall the founders ever using the word.

[BuddyRey]

I had a similar epiphany while watching Freedom Watch tonight. That one blonde lady said something about the definition of Capitalism being competition, which, in her mind, justified an estate tax.

I thought to myself, capitalism doesn't mean competition for its own sake, but the freedom to compete or cooperate, to succeed or to fail, on one's own terms. Socialism, a dog-eat-dog system where neighbors take turns robbing, conscripting, enslaving, and tyrannizing rachother, THAT'S competition for its own sake!

For that reason, I call myself either a Voluntaryist, or an "Economic Non-Aggressionist."

[Promontorium]

"My friend said to me, 'I think the weather's trippy.' I said, 'No man, it's not the weather that's trippy, perhaps it is the way we perceive it that is indeed trippy.' Then I thought man, I should have just said, 'yeah.'" - Mitch Hedberg

Defer to practicality and comprehension. Capitalism is a word just as drug around as socialism, so sure most people don't get it, but they don't matter.

[hazek]

I like JBSs idea: Americanism, Americanists

[fisharmor]

As of very recently, I refer to myself as an anarchist.
What we think of as capitalism is a logical extension of this. No form of government naturally supports 100% free market capitalism. I will argue for anarchy because the closer we get to it, the more free market capitalism we get as a result.

This is not to say that I would not be relatively happy should we magically return to a severely limited government. Just as most people who self identify as capitalists would tell you that they could tolerate some taxes and some regulation, I too could tolerate some government.

[Jordan]

Frank Luntz says "Capitalism" gets a negative reaction while "entrepreneurship" is favorable across the board.

[fisharmor]

Frank Luntz says "Capitalism" gets a negative reaction while "entrepreneurship" is favorable across the board.

I suppose he has a totally random sample survey to support this claim, right?

If that dude wished me a good morning, I'd run to a window to find out if the sun was actually out.

[AlexMerced]

Just a quick question that's been on my mind a little while. Recently when talking with others about my economic beliefs and political views, I've called myself a "proponent of the free market". Sure it doesn't roll right off the tongue, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense then calling myself a capitalist.

Capitalism, as I'm sure the majority of you know, is a term coined by Karl Marx. It's derogatory term really.

Calling ourselves Capitalists is like a black person calling themselves a "******". Sure, many do call themselves this, but it's usually in parody or whatnot. Yet we use 'capitalism' completely straight faced.

Your own ideas?

I don't even use the term free market since people start amking invisible hand jokes, I usually say I for Transparent Markets, and prices can only be transparent if there is no intervention in the market preventing from prices being accurate information.

to see how else I phrase my positions check out the positions section of VoteMerced.com

[brandon]

Frank Luntz says "Capitalism" gets a negative reaction while "entrepreneurship" is favorable across the board.

The man knows his shit

[Elwar]

You are an individual. With your own thoughts and ideals.

Who's this "we" you refer to?

[Lucille]

Frank Luntz says "Capitalism" gets a negative reaction while "entrepreneurship" is favorable across the board.

Rasmussen (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/april_2009/just_53_say_capitalism_better_than_socialism) had a poll where the results were similar. People see capitalism as crony capitalism now, thanks to the fascists in Washington.


Only 53% of American adults believe capitalism is better than socialism.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 20% disagree and say socialism is better. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are not sure which is better.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided. Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive of the free-enterprise approach with 49% for capitalism and 26% for socialism. Adults over 40 strongly favor capitalism, and just 13% of those older Americans believe socialism is better.
[...]
The question posed by Rasmussen Reports did not define either capitalism or socialism. It is interesting to compare the new results to an earlier survey in which 70% of Americans prefer a free-market economy. The fact that a “free-market economy” attracts substantially more support than “capitalism” may suggest some skepticism about whether capitalism in the United States today relies on free markets.

Other survey data supports that notion. Rather than seeing large corporations as committed to free markets, two-out-of-three Americans believe that big government and big business often work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors.

Fifteen percent (15%) of Americans say they prefer a government-managed economy, similar to the 20% support for socialism. Just 14% believe the federal government would do a better job running auto companies, and even fewer believe government would do a better job running financial firms.

Related Russ Roberts (http://www.invisibleheart.com/2009/11/congressional_testimony_octobe.php):


We are what we do. Not what we wish to be. Not what we say we are. But what we do. And what we do here in Washington is rescue big companies and rich people from the consequences of their mistakes. When mistakes don’t cost you anything, you do more of them.
[...]
Capitalism is a profit and loss system. The profits encourage risk-taking. The losses encourage prudence. Is it a surprise that when the government takes the losses, instead of the investors, that investing gets less prudent? If you always bail out lenders, is it surprising that firms can borrow enormous amounts of money living on the edge of insolvency?

I’m mad at Wall Street. But I’m a lot madder at the people who gave them the keys to drive our economy off a cliff. I’m mad at the people who have taken hundreds of billions of taxpayer money and given it to some of the richest people in human history.

I’m mad at President Bush and President Obama and Secretary Paulson and Secretary Geithner and Chairman Bernanake. And I’m mad at Congress. You helped risk-takers continue to expect that the rules that apply to the rest of us don’t apply to people with the right connections.

You have saved the system, but it’s not a system worth saving. It’s not capitalism but crony capitalism.

[Travlyr]

There are a lot of words which the "powers that be" changes the meaning to confuse people. People are controlled with words (media)... repetition.

Dollar: originally was a good quality silver coin.
Dollar redefined: a unit of currency.

Treason: originally was a crime against the states.
Treason redefined: crime against the global elite oligarchy.

Republic: originally was a state in which the supreme power is with the people.
Republic redefined: Democracy, or mob rule.

Rights: originally were inherent.
Rights redefined: Do not exist.

Insurance: originally was risk based coverage.
Insurance redefined: Payment system of incurred expenses.

Sovereignty: originally was supreme authority.
Sovereignty redefined: "All of this suggests that sovereignty must be redefined (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9903/sovereignty_and_globalisation.html) if states are to cope with globalisation." Richard N. Haass, President, Council on Foreign Relations

Capitalist: originally meant that a producer uses capital to produce goods to trade.
Capitalist redefined: Financial thief.

I like the original definitions and will fight for my "right" to use the "dollar" as a "capitalist" to maintain my "sovereignty" in a "republic" of states where "treason" is abhorred and "insurance" covers losses based on risk.

[Adam Kokesh]

I like the idea of using "voluntarism" to define economic philosophy. We would have a bit of a hard time introducing that to the vernacular.

[sailingaway]

Rand made the term 'capitalist' sound positively seductive during his campaign. People were shouting it out at his victory party.

Personally, I'm not giving up on it. Marx can't define it, we do.