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View Full Version : "This is absolute garbage," says Marine Corps Sgt Of Planned 2011 Military Pay Raise




Kludge
12-06-2010, 04:42 AM
"Military servicemembers are fighting what would be their lowest pay raise in decades as the nation wages two wars, including a 10th year of combat in Afghanistan.
The Obama administration has proposed a 1.4% raise for the military in 2011, which would be the lowest since 1962, when no raise was given.

The administration, which wants to freeze non-military pay for federal workers to tackle the deficit, says a 1.4% raise for the military would match average private-sector-wage growth and is in addition to earlier increases in housing and food subsidies.

...

An additional half-percent increase over 1.4% raise will cost taxpayers $350 million in 2011, bringing the total cost of the higher raise to $1.3 billion, Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez says.

"This is the one group in the country that has not let this nation down," Ryan says. "They are not investment bankers."

..."

More @ http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-12-06-1Amilitarypay06_ST_N.htm

xd9fan
12-06-2010, 08:55 AM
welcome aboard....take your seat....

qh4dotcom
12-06-2010, 08:58 AM
They should be more pissed off at the Fed inflation being created / devaluation of their salaries rather than not getting a bigger pay raise.

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 08:59 AM
"This is the one group in the country that has not let this nation down," Ryan says. "They are not investment bankers."


By waging unconstitutional wars of aggression....yes indeed you have.
If they don't like it, quit. don't reenlist. Go ahead, quit.

virgil47
12-06-2010, 09:48 AM
By waging unconstitutional wars of aggression....yes indeed you have.
If they don't like it, quit. don't reenlist. Go ahead, quit.

Why are you still in the U.S.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

agitator
12-06-2010, 09:54 AM
Why are you still in the U.S.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

^That has to be one of RPFs' dumbest post.

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 09:56 AM
Why are you still in the U.S.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

Huh? Yes, If my employer was doing something I disagreed with or forced me to break laws I would quit and find a new job. Did I tell them to quit and not seek other employment? Yes, I have quit employers in the past that I disagreed with. As for leaving the US, I did, thanks. I still own a home outside the US. I have come back for now due to family obligations, but I may go again in the next few years. Are you a troll or just stupid?

roho76
12-06-2010, 09:58 AM
why are you still in the u.s.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover marxist?

wtf?


^that has to be one of rpfs' dumbest post.

+1

Andrew-Austin
12-06-2010, 10:00 AM
Why are you still live in the U.S.? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

Telling someone to leave their job is not the same thing as telling them to remain unemployed.

So because he thinks the miltary's job is immoral, he is probably a Marxist of no economic worth to society. How is this not just petty name calling? It is.




You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left?

You really thought that one through huh. So you agree with all of the government's policies do you? "Don't like socialism and fascism, well then get lost, the parasitic class has more a right to rule the entire country then you have a right to live on your property unmolested". That is what that type of comment entails, its a completely bankrupt line of thought, it was the favorite retort of neocons during the Bush years.

Feeding the Abscess
12-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Could a mod change virgil47's username to Mr. Derp?

virgil47
12-06-2010, 10:09 AM
Huh? Yes, If my employer was doing something I disagreed with or forced me to break laws I would quit and find a new job. Did I tell them to quit and not seek other employment? Yes, I have quit employers in the past that I disagreed with. As for leaving the US, I did, thanks. I still own a home outside the US. I have come back for now due to family obligations, but I may go again in the next few years. Are you a troll or just stupid?

No just a Ron Paul delegate at the last presidential election. Do you really think that the vast majority of military members who have no civilian job skills will simply be able to just get out and go right to work? If you believe this you are living in never, never land. Just by paying taxes you are helping to break laws so that argument is a non starter. Maybe, if your anti U.S. feeling are so strong you should help move your family members out of the U.S. instead of using them as an excuse for being here.

Teaser Rate
12-06-2010, 10:10 AM
They should be more pissed off at the Fed inflation being created / devaluation of their salaries rather than not getting a bigger pay raise.

What inflation ? (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=CUSR0000SA0&output_view=pct_1mth)

reduen
12-06-2010, 10:12 AM
Why are you still in the U.S.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

Unfortunately, it is not that easy to leave here. Other countries actually have and enforce immigration laws and it takes a ton of money to do something like that. (Especially if you want to take your family...)

What a strange post this is. Can one really control where they are born?

Hallamaat
12-06-2010, 10:13 AM
Shit, I thought virgil47 was being sarcastic at first just because the post seemed like it was so far out of left field than that of anything else that would be posted here by most users. I guess not.

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 10:14 AM
No just a Ron Paul delegate at the last presidential election. Do you really think that the vast majority of military members who have no civilian job skills will simply be able to just get out and go right to work? If you believe this you are living in never, never land. Just by paying taxes you are helping to break laws so that argument is a non starter. Maybe, if your anti U.S. feeling are so strong you should help move your family members out of the U.S. instead of using them as an excuse for being here.

So your argument is that our military members have no skills for the private sector? That is pretty sad, I guess somebody should bring up a false advertising case against the branches of the military as all their advertisments promote how much worthwhile training you'll get that can be used in the real world.

If we go with your argument, then there is no limit to what our govt can force our military members to do. Also, why all the bitching about letting gays join then? They'll accept them and like it because they have no choice. Sorry, but your argument is weak. If you don't have skills, then you work to acquire them. You don't just accept your worthlessness.

Also, if they have no special value, then I'd argue a minimal pay increase is too much. Hell lets cut their salary, it aint like they have any other options.

As far as moving other family members out.....yeah moving old seniors on their way out the door is gonna happen. pfft.

Fredom101
12-06-2010, 10:24 AM
If you don't like being paid with stolen money, you should quit your job. If you don't like that your employer will not steal more from other people to pay you more, you should quit your job.

LisaNY
12-06-2010, 10:48 AM
Shame on these soldiers for going to the press and bitching about their pay. I have had many combat veterans in my family, even serving now, and I can tell you none of them would ever make such a selfish, greedy statement to the media. It is a sad day in America when our soldiers are running to the press to complain about their pay. As someone else already said, if you don't like it QUIT. Otherwise, suck it up and keep your mouth shut!

virgil47
12-06-2010, 10:52 AM
So your argument is that our military members have no skills for the private sector? That is pretty sad, I guess somebody should bring up a false advertising case against the branches of the military as all their advertisments promote how much worthwhile training you'll get that can be used in the real world.

If we go with your argument, then there is no limit to what our govt can force our military members to do. Also, why all the bitching about letting gays join then? They'll accept them and like it because they have no choice. Sorry, but your argument is weak. If you don't have skills, then you work to acquire them. You don't just accept your worthlessness.

Also, if they have no special value, then I'd argue a minimal pay increase is too much. Hell lets cut their salary, it aint like they have any other options.

As far as moving other family members out.....yeah moving old seniors on their way out the door is gonna happen. pfft.

I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

virgil47
12-06-2010, 10:59 AM
Shame on these soldiers for going to the press and bitching about their pay. I have had many combat veterans in my family, even serving now, and I can tell you none of them would ever make such a selfish, greedy statement to the media. It is a sad day in America when our soldiers are running to the press to complain about their pay. As someone else already said, if you don't like it QUIT. Otherwise, suck it up and keep your mouth shut!

So you and your relatives would like to see the budget balanced on the backs of the under payed military? Are you willing to be ready to deploy in 2 hours time? Do you have an "A" bag packed all of the time? Have you lost many of your constitutional rights as a condition of employment? Does separation from children and loved ones seem like a pleasant way of life? If these people weren't willing to put up with these things we would most likely be speaking a language other than English. Think before you bad mouth those that are willing to do these things to help keep us free!

reduen
12-06-2010, 11:02 AM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

Have served and have many family members serving as we speak.

If you honestly believe that our soldiers are fighting for our freedoms in this war or any other in recent history, then in my opinion you are a lost cause....

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 11:10 AM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

hahaha. I don't consider signing up to go kill goat-f*ckers in a backwards country on the other side of the planet for the benefit of transnational corporations under the pretense of some scary boogeyman as defending our country and freedoms. I'm not whining about their existence just saying they don't have a right to a bigger pay increase. If they don't like it, seek other employment. i'm sure they have enough skills to clean a latrine or pick vegetables.

Justinjj1
12-06-2010, 11:13 AM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

The military protects our freedom? Since when did this happen start happening?

reduen
12-06-2010, 11:18 AM
hahaha. I don't consider signing up to go kill goat-f*ckers in a backwards country on the other side of the planet for the benefit of transnational corporations under the pretense of some scary boogeyman as defending our country and freedoms. I'm not whining about their existence just saying they don't have a right to a bigger pay increase. If they don't like it, seek other employment. i'm sure they have enough skills to clean a latrine or pick vegetables.

My daughter will go to work for my wife at the local nursing home or hospital if and when she returns.. My son (in law) will work in law enforcement and wants to own his own restraunt. They will do fine when they come home....:)

LisaNY
12-06-2010, 11:24 AM
So you and your relatives would like to see the budget balanced on the backs of the under payed military? Are you willing to be ready to deploy in 2 hours time? Do you have an "A" bag packed all of the time? Have you lost many of your constitutional rights as a condition of employment? Does separation from children and loved ones seem like a pleasant way of life? If these people weren't willing to put up with these things we would most likely be speaking a language other than English. Think before you bad mouth those that are willing to do these things to help keep us free!


Virgil, I don't need a lecture from you on the importance of our military. I have more war dead in my family than you've got toes on your feet. Going back to World War 1 my family has spilled blood all over this planet in order to keep us from "speaking a language other than English". I have a nephew in Afghanistan right now, and quite frankly his paycheck is the least of my concerns. It's the least of his parents concerns, and I'm pretty sure it's the least of his concerns too. I don't care what these soldiers say in private, running to the press to complain about your paycheck is unacceptable and undignified. I hope those quoted in the article get reprimanded for their remarks.

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 11:30 AM
//

agitator
12-06-2010, 11:32 AM
If these people weren't willing to put up with these things we would most likely be speaking a language other than English.

We could eliminate the bloated defense budget in exchange for learning a second language?

Sounds like a bargain.

coastie
12-06-2010, 11:42 AM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.


Well I did, and my sister did as well. I saw through all the bullshit, and got the fuck out of there after 8 1/2 years.

Nobody in the US military has "given their lives" for your/mine/our freedom in recent times -- and I triple dog dare you to prove me wrong. If they are supposed to be defending our freedom, then they need to get back to the states, pronto.;)

Promontorium
12-06-2010, 11:47 AM
The military is necessary. The execution of the military is currently wrong, but to root for the entire dismantling of the military is to root for the end of this nation's existence. That's not a moral judgment, I often meander in between hope for rebound and hope for a good old fashioned collapse. If you think a nation can continue to exist without a defense force, I would like to see your data, protection via allies would count as a defense force.

The pay the military receives is nothing like what the average federal employee receives, and isn't even comparable to the civillian equivalent, many military professionals get out and immediately start making 3 or 4 times as much money. The individual servicemember is not the fiscal problem, and I hope you can see how it appears ignorant and inflammatory that you in this thread specifically blame these lowest wage workers. Should anyone be bitching about the military pay raise not being high enough? Probably not. But as it is in cities and states these budget problems are not going to be solved with pay freezes or lower raises, the ultimate goal is to force out increased taxes, because they will refuse to take real steps.

End the wars, end the departments, close 90% of the bases around the world, cut the military into 1/3, but pay the individual for the work. Screwing individuals in a ploy for higher taxes to maintain megaevil projects is the government's forte', and you're buying what they're selling.

noxagol
12-06-2010, 11:49 AM
...the freedoms that many have given their lives...

And there you have it, the big lie! If they were suppose to defend our freedom and not do the government's bidding, then why are they not back here instituting the second revolutions to reverse the last 200 years of bullshit the government has shat onto us? Show me how any German, Russian, Vietnamese, Korean, Iraqi, Afghani, or anyone else has ever threatened the freedom here. And of whoever you think up from that, show me one that wasn't fighting as a result of US intervention. If you can, you win the prize because they don't exist and never have.

libertarian4321
12-06-2010, 01:38 PM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

I've served almost 30 years (so far) in the US Army, active and Reserve, and you are painfully wrong.

There has been NO COST CUTTING in the military. We continue to spend as if the entire world was ready to attack us.

Our military is massive and bloated, and our military expenditures continue to grow.

We spend as much on our military as the rest of the world combined, which is completely absurd.

BTW, most members of the military learn skills their that translate very well to the civilian sector.

I'm not saying everyone should get out of the military, but it's pathetic to have military members whining about getting "only" a 1.4% raise at a time when the country is in fiscal and economic crisis, and most of the people who are paying their salaries are lucky to keep their jobs, let alone get "only" a 1.4% raise.

Maybe if that service member got out and tried to make it as a civilian in this economy, he'd tone down his whining.

Chieppa1
12-06-2010, 01:42 PM
I rather doubt that you or many others on this forum have the guts and drive to take their place in the military. You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence. Sorry, you can not have it both ways. Yes the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the military has indeed pretty much done away with skills that translate into the civilian world.

Speech writer?

libertarian4321
12-06-2010, 01:57 PM
So you and your relatives would like to see the budget balanced on the backs of the under payed military?

The military is NOT underpaid. Their weekly earnings are less than civilians in similar specialties, but they have better benefits than almost anyone.

Not to mention that they can RETIRE at age 38 and collect a check (and receive benefits) for the rest of their lives.

When you add the pay, benefits, and retirement, those who serve in the military are more than adequately paid.


Are you willing to be ready to deploy in 2 hours time? Do you have an "A" bag packed all of the time?

No, and, with the possible exception of the rapid deployment 82nd Airborne and a few special forces units (a tiny portion of the military), neither are most military members.


If these people weren't willing to put up with these things we would most likely be speaking a language other than English.

The only nation that ever threatened the USA was Britain (Revolutionary War and War of 1812), and they speak...English.

Please don't say "we'd be speaking German." The Germans couldn't even manage to invade tiny Britain across 24 miles of ocean, they sure as Hell weren't going to invade the USA across thousands of miles of ocean.

Japan also had zero ability to invade the USA. The US Navy, even after Pearl Harbor, was the largest and most powerful in the world. I won't even get into the massive inadequacies of the Japanese Army- piss poor armor, crappy machine guns, obsolescent rifles, little and poor quality artillery, etc.- an army capable of overwhelming poorly equipped and unprepared armies, but not capable of defeating a large, well equipped opponent.

Our involvement in WW2 shortened the length of the war, to be sure, but Germany was no threat to invade Iowa.

Rael
12-06-2010, 03:18 PM
You certainly enjoy the freedoms that many have given their lives for but then you whine about their existence.

A bunch of crap.

None of the wars we had in the last 100 years were necessary to protect our freedom. That is the lie they sell and I'm sure many in the military believe it. Actually what they gave their lives for were silly schemes by politicians and wars to help prop up bankers.

Brett85
12-06-2010, 03:28 PM
It's a shame that members of Congress get paid over 4 times as much as the military gets paid. It's time to cut the pay of members of Congress down to what the military gets paid.

Brett85
12-06-2010, 03:29 PM
A bunch of crap.

None of the wars we had in the last 100 years were necessary to protect our freedom. That is the lie they sell and I'm sure many in the military believe it. Actually what they gave their lives for were silly schemes by politicians and wars to help prop up bankers.

Uh, WWII? The original Afghanistan war? Those are both wars that Ron Paul said were justified. We were attacked in both situations.

oyarde
12-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Actually , what will begin to happen is smaller raises and maybe no raises . This will occur because the percentage of the budget for payroll is as high as the wish it to be .

Rael
12-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Uh, WWII? The original Afghanistan war? Those are both wars that Ron Paul said were justified. We were attacked in both situations.

Nope. World War II would not have been necessary without World War I, and Afghanistan would not have been needed without the Gulf War and having military bases all over the world. You can't have a bogus war, and then cause a second war and say that either was justified.

agitator
12-06-2010, 03:43 PM
Uh, WWII? The original Afghanistan war? Those are both wars that Ron Paul said were justified. We were attacked in both situations.

Hasn't RP changed his mind on Afghanistan?

agitator
12-06-2010, 03:44 PM
It's a shame that members of Congress get paid over 4 times as much as the military gets paid. It's time to cut the pay of members of Congress down to what the military gets paid.

And their pension should be Social Security and medical benefits Medicare.

specsaregood
12-06-2010, 03:44 PM
Hasn't RP changed his mind on Afghanistan?

No, he never supported a "WAR" on afghanistan. He voted for the authority to go in and get the people responsible for 9/11. Not nationbuilding and not a full on war.

Rael
12-06-2010, 03:46 PM
Hasn't RP changed his mind on Afghanistan?

He said something to the effect that we didn't do what we were supposed to do over there and go after those who were responsible

oyarde
12-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Most military people work in support roles that would have similar jobs in civilian marketplace . So , I would not agree that most military have no job skills . The only people who would fall into that category , maybe , would be 17 or 18 year olds who enlisted directly into combat arms positions .

ExPatPaki
12-06-2010, 03:57 PM
He said something to the effect that we didn't do what we were supposed to do over there and go after those who were responsible

That's because the people "responsible" were probably in Pakistan by that time.

Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. The planning and training for 9/11 took place in the Philippines, Germany and the US.

heavenlyboy34
12-06-2010, 04:23 PM
^that has to be one of rpfs' dumbest post.

+1000000

PreDeadMan
12-06-2010, 04:48 PM
Good maybe they can find another job one that doesn't involve people's money stolen from them to get paid ;)

Brett85
12-06-2010, 06:04 PM
Hasn't RP changed his mind on Afghanistan?

He's opposed to nation building there, and so am I. I'm just saying that we were justified in going in there in the first place since we were attacked. Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the attacks, and he was located in Afghanistan.

Brett85
12-06-2010, 06:05 PM
Nope. World War II would not have been necessary without World War I, and Afghanistan would not have been needed without the Gulf War and having military bases all over the world. You can't have a bogus war, and then cause a second war and say that either was justified.

The fact that we've made foreign policy mistakes in the past doesn't mean that we can just allow attacks on our own soil and not retaliate in any way.

bkreigh
12-06-2010, 06:20 PM
I've served almost 30 years (so far) in the US Army, active and Reserve, and you are painfully wrong.

There has been NO COST CUTTING in the military. We continue to spend as if the entire world was ready to attack us.

Our military is massive and bloated, and our military expenditures continue to grow.

We spend as much on our military as the rest of the world combined, which is completely absurd.

BTW, most members of the military learn skills their that translate very well to the civilian sector.

I'm not saying everyone should get out of the military, but it's pathetic to have military members whining about getting "only" a 1.4% raise at a time when the country is in fiscal and economic crisis, and most of the people who are paying their salaries are lucky to keep their jobs, let alone get "only" a 1.4% raise.

Maybe if that service member got out and tried to make it as a civilian in this economy, he'd tone down his whining.

I agree especially with the bolded part. I am active duty and i have talked about the pay raise raise with some people from my office. Its pretty much a bunch of whining and how its the democrats fault. I keep telling them we are lucky to be getting a raise during these times let alone having a job that pays the bills.

Their biggest argument is that the raises dont keep up with inflation. Which is a good segue into our monetary policy.

oyarde
12-06-2010, 06:23 PM
One thing I will say, this young Sgt. should be making no public comment on raises .

Imperial
12-06-2010, 07:55 PM
^That has to be one of RPFs' dumbest post.

I've seen worse.


[Hitler] Doesnt seem like a "disturbed" monster to me....

Check out his paintings...wow

YouTube - IN MEMORY OF ADOLF HITLER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DgVxDSVLL8&feature=related)

Mach
12-06-2010, 08:40 PM
Why are you still in the U.S.? You obviously don't agree with our governments policies so why haven't you left? You advocate military members joining the ranks of the unemployed but you are not ready to step up and leave. Of course you may not be of economic value to our society and would therefore not be missed. If you are indeed employed why would you suggest that others should become unemployed? Are you a troll or perhaps an under cover Marxist?

Your government is not your country.

Stary Hickory
12-06-2010, 08:54 PM
The amount of money payed to public servants should always be subject to review and adjusted, both upward and downwards. Times are tight we can't expect nothing to change. I don't want to see our military unable to pay its bills, but at the same time pay cannot always increase it may have to decrease sometimes to make the budget work.

Anyways we have a bloated military. A modest decrease (inflation adjusted) is nothing.

awake
12-06-2010, 08:58 PM
I like Hans Hoppe on this: If we are to be besieged with democracy and you want to work for the government you forfeit your right to vote, only taxpayers (producers) get the right to vote.

virgil47
12-07-2010, 08:10 PM
I like Hans Hoppe on this: If we are to be besieged with democracy and you want to work for the government you forfeit your right to vote, only taxpayers (producers) get the right to vote.

How totally unthinking and selfish of Hans Hoppe if he said that. Does he repair the planes that our military uses for humanitarian airlifts, does he clean and distribute the gear that our soldiers use, does he man the justice department, does he deliver the mail, does he help the poor? I didn't think so.

noxagol
12-07-2010, 08:18 PM
How totally unthinking and selfish of Hans Hoppe if he said that. Does he repair the planes that our military uses for humanitarian airlifts, does he clean and distribute the gear that our soldiers use, does he man the justice department, does he deliver the mail, does he help the poor? I didn't think so.

Do the people who do those things pay for those things? Do the people who do pay for those things get to decide?

I didn't think so.