South Korea to Set Internet Curfew

[Kludge]

.... :confused: :rolleyes:

"South Korea is considering a nationally enforced gaming curfew for youngsters in an effort to stem the growing issue of Internet addiction, officials said Thursday.
The proposed bill for this "Cinderella" ban is expected to go before parliament this month. The bill would make it illegal for Internet service providers (ISPs) to give online gaming access to users under the age of 16 between the hours of 12 and 6 a.m.

For most South Korean students, this will mean no gaming at all -- it's normal to be in school until midnight due to extracurricular activities and studying. Other restrictions being considered include options for parents to limit the maximum number of hours young users are allowed online each day.

"The thing about online games is, once you are in it, it is extremely hard to get out of it, especially if you are a young kid," Jo Rin, a ministry official in charge of the law, told news agency AFP.

"A lot of kids play games all night long and have trouble studying at school and going about their normal lives during daytime. We believe the law is necessary to ensure their health and a right to sleep."

Internet addiction is a growing problem in what is one of the world’s most wired nations and there have been several recent reports of Internet-related deaths. Last February, a 32-year-old man was reported to have died in an Internet café after a non-stop online gaming session that lasted five days. More recently, a 15-year-old allegedly killed his mother before taking his own life after she told him to get off the computer.

The South Korean government estimates there to be 2 million Internet addicts at all and has already released software that helps limit computer time."

Source: Fox News

[SeanKim]

I am from Korea so I know this. This is a serious problem..haha no joke.

[Kludge]

Is the note that many SK students stay in school until midnight true? When do they go to school?

& is the SK legislature seriously considering this, or is this just a go-nowhere bill introduced which has no chance of passing?

[nate895]

I am from Korea so I know this. This is a serious problem..haha no joke.

Seriously. I haven't heard of a kid killing his mother over this on this side of the Pacific.

[AGRP]

Surely, the FCC is taking notes.

[pcosmar]

Parents can't say no in S Korea?

Why are we trying to save this "beacon of freedom" again?
:confused:

[oyarde]

Parents can't say no in S Korea?

Why are we trying to save this "beacon of freedom" again?
:confused:

My thoughts as well , unless saying no is child abuse .

[SeanKim]

Well kids study from morning till night. That might explain why Times recently ranked S. Korea as having second highest education in the world.

I immigrated to U.S. when I was in fifth grade but I knew all the math until senior year of high school because I already learned it in Korea.

One of the biggest assets of American education is that it encourages creativity but at the same time, it is a bit too relaxed in comparison with countries like S. Korea or India. In India, you learn up to 100 in multiplication table (59 x. 42 etc etc)...while in America, we only learn up to 10.

The teachers also work harder and actually teach really well. They are very qualified teachers...I mean in America, you don't have to do much to get tenure. It's very different in Korea...unions don't have as much power as they do here.

Anyway, I got off the topic but I wouldn't be surprised if S. Korean govt did something to try to stop kids from becoming addicted to online gaming. I've heard of ppl dying from playing game all the time...but I wouldn't be surprised because the culture is very different in Korea so govt doing something like that is more accepted than in America. It is still very free country though but govt tend to get involved a lot in social affairs but it provides many valuable services for the people.

There is corruption still but lobbying is actually forbidden by law so there are no pacs or special interest groups as we have in...DC.

[SeanKim]

My thoughts as well , unless saying no is child abuse .

Parents want their kids to study from morning till night. School ends at 3pm but the parents usually send them to after school programs to learn english, math, etc.

As for American presence in Korea, to be honest, S. Korea is quite wealthy country. I would prefer for S. Korea to pay for their own defense but we have to convince the neocons that we shouldn't be patrolling the world being its policemen.

[pcosmar]

Parents want their kids to study from morning till night. School ends at 3pm but the parents usually send them to after school programs to learn english, math, etc.

As for American presence in Korea, to be honest, S. Korea is quite wealthy country. I would prefer for S. Korea to pay for their own defense but we have to convince the neocons that we shouldn't be patrolling the world being its policemen.

Well everyone here knows that Public schools here suck.
My Guild leader in World of Warcraft homeschools her kids.(Teen boys) They are presently learning to do math in Greek. And have a multi-media project in the works.
And they run with us on raids.
;)

[Kludge]

Parents want their kids to study from morning till night. School ends at 3pm but the parents usually send them to after school programs to learn english, math, etc.

As for American presence in Korea, to be honest, S. Korea is quite wealthy country. I would prefer for S. Korea to pay for their own defense but we have to convince the neocons that we shouldn't be patrolling the world being its policemen.

S Korea seems to have a bloated military at ~650k active units, over 3m in reservists - but then I read N Korea has over 1m active units & over 8m in reservists, and has the third-largest chemical weapons stockpile in the world.

Is it reasonable to assume S Korea could ever defend against a North Korean invasion alone? I suspect S Korea has vastly superior technology being used, supplied by the US & other "democracies," but I'm unfamiliar with the situation.

[oyarde]

Well kids study from morning till night. That might explain why Times recently ranked S. Korea as having second highest education in the world.

I immigrated to U.S. when I was in fifth grade but I knew all the math until senior year of high school because I already learned it in Korea.

One of the biggest assets of American education is that it encourages creativity but at the same time, it is a bit too relaxed in comparison with countries like S. Korea or India. In India, you learn up to 100 in multiplication table (59 x. 42 etc etc)...while in America, we only learn up to 10.

The teachers also work harder and actually teach really well. They are very qualified teachers...I mean in America, you don't have to do much to get tenure. It's very different in Korea...unions don't have as much power as they do here.

Anyway, I got off the topic but I wouldn't be surprised if S. Korean govt did something to try to stop kids from becoming addicted to online gaming. I've heard of ppl dying from playing game all the time...but I wouldn't be surprised because the culture is very different in Korea so govt doing something like that is more accepted than in America. It is still very free country though but govt tend to get involved a lot in social affairs but it provides many valuable services for the people.

There is corruption still but lobbying is actually forbidden by law so there are no pacs or special interest groups as we have in...DC.

Lobbying is unlawful ...... So you just personally approach the govt . ?

[SeanKim]

S Korea seems to have a bloated military at ~650k active units, over 3m in reservists - but then I read N Korea has over 1m active units & over 8m in reservists, and has the third-largest chemical weapons stockpile in the world.

Is it reasonable to assume S Korea could ever defend against a North Korean invasion alone? I suspect S Korea has vastly superior technology being used, supplied by the US & other "democracies," but I'm unfamiliar with the situation.

I mean S. Korea has much more technologically advanced army, navy, and air force. But N. Korea has a larger army + over 100,000 in special forces + 200,000 artillery pointed at the capital of S. Korea which btw has over 100,000 Americans living + working. There are also 30,000 American soldiers in a military base...but even if American military were not there, over 100,000 American lives are at stake in potential war with N. Korea.

N. Korea also has nukes, long range missiles that can reach up to Hawaii and western U.S. cities such as LA.

What I meant to say is that N. Korea is no Iraq or Afghanistan or even Iran. They are well armed. So war would be devastating but honesty when they bomb Korean towns and blow up submarines, it's very hard for S. Korea to just stand by...

I feel that S. Korea should develop nuclear capability to counter N. Korea because otherwise it's American nuclear weapons and soldiers that are at risk. Also, the main reason why N. Korea feels that it can get away with these attacks is because they have nukes and S. Korea doesn't. I would argue that U.S. should decrease its forces in S. Korea and leave eventually while selling S. Korea weapons and let it develop its own nuclear force and deal with N. Korea on its own terms. I think the old political theory MAD (mutually assured destruction) applies well here.

[SeanKim]

Lobbying is unlawful ...... So you just personally approach the govt . ?

I don't know how this exactly works but if politicians are found to have received bribes or etc, they go to jail. But it's enforced so much stricter...there are virtually no political action committees in Korea. I mean, don't get me wrong. There are still corruptions but just not as much as DC in my opinion.

[pcosmar]

I think the old political theory MAD (mutually assured destruction) applies well here.
Damn good idea.
Long over due.

[oyarde]

I don't know how this exactly works but if politicians are found to have received bribes or etc, they go to jail. But it's enforced so much stricter...there are virtually no political action committees in Korea. I mean, don't get me wrong. There are still corruptions but just not as much as DC in my opinion.

I have been there a couple of times , but did not have time to read about politics .

[Kludge]

I mean S. Korea has much more technologically advanced army, navy, and air force. But N. Korea has a larger army + over 100,000 in special forces + 200,000 artillery pointed at the capital of S. Korea which btw has over 100,000 Americans living + working. There are also 30,000 American soldiers in a military base...but even if American military were not there, over 100,000 American lives are at stake in potential war with N. Korea.

N. Korea also has nukes, long range missiles that can reach up to Hawaii and western U.S. cities such as LA.

What I meant to say is that N. Korea is no Iraq or Afghanistan or even Iran. They are well armed. So war would be devastating but honesty when they bomb Korean towns and blow up submarines, it's very hard for S. Korea to just stand by...

I feel that S. Korea should develop nuclear capability to counter N. Korea because otherwise it's American nuclear weapons and soldiers that are at risk. Also, the main reason why N. Korea feels that it can get away with these attacks is because they have nukes and S. Korea doesn't. I would argue that U.S. should decrease its forces in S. Korea and leave eventually while selling S. Korea weapons and let it develop its own nuclear force and deal with N. Korea on its own terms. I think the old political theory MAD (mutually assured destruction) applies well here.

Does N Korea actually have powerful nukes? I recall their tests being called duds back when I watched Fox News a few years ago.

Do you think North Korea could inflict significant damage if the US & S. Korea pre-emptively bombard their offensive powers - silos, barracks, artillery positions?

If North Korea were defeated, do you think they'd be allowed to remain independent with a new N. Korean leader, or would it be reunified under S. Korea's leadership? Would it then be an unwanted occupation, or do you think North Koreans would accept South Korean rule?

(sorry if I'm asking more questions than you'd like)

[SeanKim]

Does N Korea actually have powerful nukes? I recall their tests being called duds back when I watched Fox News a few years ago.

Do you think North Korea could inflict significant damage if the US & S. Korea pre-emptively bombard their offensive powers - silos, barracks, artillery positions?

If North Korea were defeated, do you think they'd be allowed to remain independent with a new N. Korean leader, or would it be reunified under S. Korea's leadership? Would it then be an unwanted occupation, or do you think North Koreans would accept South Korean rule?

(sorry if I'm asking more questions than you'd like)

It's all good.

The nukes that they tested turned out to be small sized bombs like Hiroshima.

But there is indication that they have been working extensively on H-bombs which are 100-200x the size of Hiroshima atomic bomb. Also, they have enriched uranium plant up and running not to mention that they have been receiving help from Pakistan makes me think that they have a lot of things up their sleeve that they haven't shown yet.

Both North and South Koreans consider each other as one country. If N. Korea was defeated in a war, it is 100% likely that they will be absorbed by the S. Korea.

But let's hope that it doesn't come to that because countless lives will be lost NOT to mention the devastating affect that it will have on the global economy. You have to remember that if N. Korea goes to war, it will attack Japan as well and China will also be involved. There is a good chance that China might help N. Korea...they supposedly have a defense pact to help each other in time of war. That's world war 3 right there.

[Fox McCloud]

Seriously. I haven't heard of a kid killing his mother over this on this side of the Pacific.

I'd also not it sounds more like they need school reform than oppressing the ISPs...

[nate895]

I'd also not it sounds more like they need school reform than oppressing the ISPs...

Asians are oppressive when it comes to school, so that won't happen. I'll never forget a story my freshman HS English teacher told me about being late in Japan. It made me :(, :confused: ,:mad: , and :eek:, at the same time.

Those societies are so focused on the collective that they eliminate the individual almost entirely. Everything is about serving your purpose to the mass of humanity, and not through individual contribution, but by being fed into the machine.

[Fox McCloud]

Asians are oppressive when it comes to school, so that won't happen. I'll never forget a story my freshman HS English teacher told me about being late in Japan. It made me :(, :confused: ,:mad: , and :eek:, at the same time.

Those societies are so focused on the collective that they eliminate the individual almost entirely. Everything is about serving your purpose to the mass of humanity, and not through individual contribution, but by being fed into the machine.

Oh, I know, but I was just pointing out how the problem is being placed on "gaming" and the "ISPs allowing late night gaming access" when the elephant in the room is insane schooling standards.

[Kludge]

It's all good.

The nukes that they tested turned out to be small sized bombs like Hiroshima.

But there is indication that they have been working extensively on H-bombs which are 100-200x the size of Hiroshima atomic bomb. Also, they have enriched uranium plant up and running not to mention that they have been receiving help from Pakistan makes me think that they have a lot of things up their sleeve that they haven't shown yet.

Both North and South Koreans consider each other as one country. If N. Korea was defeated in a war, it is 100% likely that they will be absorbed by the S. Korea.

But let's hope that it doesn't come to that because countless lives will be lost NOT to mention the devastating affect that it will have on the global economy. You have to remember that if N. Korea goes to war, it will attack Japan as well and China will also be involved. There is a good chance that China might help N. Korea...they supposedly have a defense pact to help each other in time of war. That's world war 3 right there.

A Wikileaks cabled released a few days ago has Chinese officials complaining about North Korea's behavior, with one official noting he'd one day like to see Korea under control of Seoul, as well as noting a post-2007 policy of demanding North Korea disarm. I don't see what China could gain from a war protecting a small, poor dictatorship with the world when both the Chinese and N. Korean military has many men but few modern weapons.

Already, there are US anti-missile & other warships positioned around North Korea. It doesn't seem like a North Korean attack would be very long-lasting so long as the US involves itself.

On the other hand, the US is starting to become economically-dependent on China. The incredible tax increases which'd be required to fund a major war in Asia would likely cause riots in the US, and possibly cause an early collapse - but Europeans, Eurasians, and other nearby "democracies" could probably still crush Red forces, no?

[SeanKim]

Asians are oppressive when it comes to school, so that won't happen. I'll never forget a story my freshman HS English teacher told me about being late in Japan. It made me :(, :confused: ,:mad: , and :eek:, at the same time.

Those societies are so focused on the collective that they eliminate the individual almost entirely. Everything is about serving your purpose to the mass of humanity, and not through individual contribution, but by being fed into the machine.

Well, having gone to school in Korea until I came here, it's not that oppressive. I mean, you study hard but it's like an investment in your future. You have to realize that country like S. Korea was poorer than Haiti after the Korean war. They had no infrastructure, no natural resources, etc. But they are now 11th largest economy in the world with multinational companies like Samsung, LG, and Hyundai.

This was all made possible through education.

In America, I really liked the creativity that I was able to develop. But the education here is so messed up in that public school teachers are 1. unqualified 2. get tenured too easily, 3. the unions are too powerful. All of these are problems for our society because it turns out kids that are not educated and therefore not ready for the future. So I think America can actually learn from S. Korea or India in school & education reform just like S. Korea can learn to relax its system a little more.

[SeanKim]

Oh, I know, but I was just pointing out how the problem is being placed on "gaming" and the "ISPs allowing late night gaming access" when the elephant in the room is insane schooling standards.

True. But it's very competitive to get good jobs, etc so the education tend to be only way to distinguish people. It's not a good way to do so but I kind of understand why the education is at such high standard in Korea.

[cindy25]

this is stupid and unenforcible

so the ISP will ask "Are you over 16, or 18?"

do they think the students are so dumb they will not say yes?

[Kludge]

How difficult is it to start a business in North Korea?

[SeanKim]

A Wikileaks cabled released a few days ago has Chinese officials complaining about North Korea's behavior, with one official noting he'd one day like to see Korea under control of Seoul, as well as noting a post-2007 policy of demanding North Korea disarm. I don't see what China could gain from a war protecting a small, poor dictatorship with the world when both the Chinese and N. Korean military has many men but few modern weapons.

Already, there are US anti-missile & other warships positioned around North Korea. It doesn't seem like a North Korean attack would be very long-lasting so long as the US involves itself.

On the other hand, the US is starting to become economically-dependent on China. The incredible tax increases which'd be required to fund a major war in Asia would likely cause riots in the US, and possibly cause an early collapse - but Europeans, Eurasians, and other nearby "democracies" could probably still crush Red forces, no?

I've read that as well on wikileaks. But you can never trust what China says. They are still communists controlled politically and many of their politicians still consider N. Korea to be a loyal ally hence their million man troops fighting for N. Korea during the Korean war. If it wasn't for China, Korea would have been united under S. Korean control.

China is very wary of having U.S. troops near its border. To them, N. Korea serves as a buffer state between China and U.S. soldiers.

It might not be long lasting but it would be devastating. Nukes, chem, bio weapons and missle attacks in Japan...N. Korea will not go out without a fight.

As for continued U.S. dependency being a problem...yea it is. Even Hillary Clinton complained few months ago that the national debt is a national security threat and that its making America lose its credibility around the world.

[SeanKim]

How difficult is it to start a business in North Korea?

um..impossible? haha

[nate895]

Well, having gone to school in Korea until I came here, it's not that oppressive. I mean, you study hard but it's like an investment in your future. You have to realize that country like S. Korea was poorer than Haiti after the Korean war. They had no infrastructure, no natural resources, etc. But they are now 11th largest economy in the world with multinational companies like Samsung, LG, and Hyundai.

This was all made possible through education.

In America, I really liked the creativity that I was able to develop. But the education here is so messed up in that public school teachers are 1. unqualified 2. get tenured too easily, 3. the unions are too powerful. All of these are problems for our society because it turns out kids that are not educated and therefore not ready for the future. So I think America can actually learn from S. Korea or India in school & education reform just like S. Korea can learn to relax its system a little more.

The solution, I don't think, is to force down children's throats an oppressive educational system that has you working from sun up until sun down. America did fine becoming a superpower without that. A much better education system is a homeschooling followed by a university setting for the brightest destined to be scholars of various sorts, and trade schools for the rest. That system supplied the West with literally centuries of global domination in pretty much anything you can think of.

[squarepusher]

oh no they didn't

http://www.starcraft2guidestore.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/StarCraft-2-Zeratul.jpg

[SeanKim]

The solution, I don't think, is to force down children's throats an oppressive educational system that has you working from sun up until sun down. America did fine becoming a superpower without that. A much better education system is a homeschooling followed by a university setting for the brightest destined to be scholars of various sorts, and trade schools for the rest. That system supplied the West with literally centuries of global domination in pretty much anything you can think of.

True. But look where S. Korea is now in terms of their education ranking compared to America.

I do agree that S. Korea should work toward relaxing their education standard a little bit but once again, S. Korea is a small country with no natural resources and not as much opportunities for young people unless they go to top notch university. It seems to work for them so I don't have as much issue with it. Also, kids still have fun in Korea even though they study intensely. You just balance having fun with working hard but it gets a lot better once you get into college.

As for America, I do agree with your ideas. But I do think that kids can definitely work a bit harder in schools as well as teachers. I mean a 3 month summer vacation and teachers who are not qualified to teach as well as the corrupt unions have ruined this country's education system. It needs to work toward educating the children for the future with more rigorous academic standard while retaining importance of creativity.

[pcosmar]

As for America, I do agree with your ideas. But I do think that kids can definitely work a bit harder in schools as well as teachers. I mean a 3 month summer vacation and teachers who are not qualified to teach as well as the corrupt unions have ruined this country's education system.

Wrong, It is working exactly as expected.
There is a planed and deliberate dumbing down of the public schools.
It was instituted over well 50 years ago.

[Kludge]

The US education system is definitely broken & I think SeanKim identified some key points -- underqualified teachers, union dominance blocking reform (see Michelle Rhee), and overly-relaxed curriculum.

I graduated high school and was allowed to skip as many days as I wanted (about half). Nobody can argue that is the product of a functional education system.

Nate makes good points, too, I think -- that a move toward eliminating unnecessary education for people who should instead be skilled laborers would be a move toward efficient education.

Until teachers' unions are eliminated, however, education reform in the US is a pipe dream.

[pcosmar]

Wrong, It is working exactly as expected.
There is a planed and deliberate dumbing down of the public schools.
It was instituted over well 50 years ago.

YouTube - Norman Dodd On Tax Exempt Foundations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM)

[Fox McCloud]

True. But look where S. Korea is now in terms of their education ranking compared to America.

I do agree that S. Korea should work toward relaxing their education standard a little bit but once again, S. Korea is a small country with no natural resources and not as much opportunities for young people unless they go to top notch university. It seems to work for them so I don't have as much issue with it. Also, kids still have fun in Korea even though they study intensely. You just balance having fun with working hard but it gets a lot better once you get into college.

As for America, I do agree with your ideas. But I do think that kids can definitely work a bit harder in schools as well as teachers. I mean a 3 month summer vacation and teachers who are not qualified to teach as well as the corrupt unions have ruined this country's education system. It needs to work toward educating the children for the future with more rigorous academic standard while retaining importance of creativity.

I think the point Nate is making is that the education system shouldn't be compulsory nor should it be regulated by the State; it should be up to parents to decide where they want to send their child to school and what type of school.

also, another problem with US public school education is that the funding is attached to the school, itself...where as (I'm not 100% sure about this, but I know it rings true for most of Europe) abroad, the funding is attached to the child...which tends to encourage competitiveness and is a midway to vouchers.

[SeanKim]

I think the point Nate is making is that the education system shouldn't be compulsory nor should it be regulated by the State; it should be up to parents to decide where they want to send their child to school and what type of school.

also, another problem with US public school education is that the funding is attached to the school, itself...where as (I'm not 100% sure about this, but I know it rings true for most of Europe) abroad, the funding is attached to the child...which tends to encourage competitiveness and is a midway to vouchers.

I see you point. The parents do decide the course of their children's education though. They can choose to send their children to study abroad or private schools, etc. They are actually much more involved in the education process than the parents are here. The parents in Korea are very active in school curriculum and teacher selection and etc. My mother used to be president of parents association and she had an actual vote in selecting teachers. It's just higher quality because it has higher expectation from students...many of them do end up going to professional schools as well which I think is completely fine.

I am not too sure about how the funding works as well...but I think any method of efficiency is good.

[Vessol]

I'm barely surprised. South Korea has been barely escaped being called a facist state for awhile. Especially under Park Chung Hee

"Free and open expression has not come easily to South Koreans. Beatings, torture, and execution of the regimes' political opponents have been a way of life since the Korean War. The tenure of former President Park Chung Hee, who came to power in a 1961 military coup, exemplifies the kind of leader South Koreans have been forced to endure. Park's virulent anti-communism won him U.S. support. The water torture, which leaves no physical marks on the victim, was a favored technique of Park's security forces. Cold water was forced up the nostrils through a tube, while a cloth was placed in the victim's mouth to prevent breathing. Many anti-communist interrogations were run by the KCIA, a US creation modeled after the American CIA. One victim told Amnesty International, " I was taken to KCIA headquarters, my hands tied together, and I was tied to a chair. I was not allowed to have any sleep. At night, they would drag me to the basement where they would beat me with a long, heavy stick, and jump on me. They were trying to make me confess that I was a spy. Despite such brutal behavior, the US has maintained a first-rate strategic relationship with South Korea, providing successive repressive regimes with extensive US aid. Park Chung Hee was assassinated by the KCIA in 1979, but South Korea is still a nation troubled by lack of human rights."

[Marenco]

As for America, I do agree with your ideas. But I do think that kids can definitely work a bit harder in schools as well as teachers. I mean a 3 month summer vacation and teachers who are not qualified to teach as well as the corrupt unions have ruined this country's education system. It needs to work toward educating the children for the future with more rigorous academic standard while retaining importance of creativity.

We Need Less School, Not More:

http://www.spinninglobe.net/lesschool.htm

The Makers of Modern Schooling:

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/historytour/history1.htm

"School is the advertising agency which makes you believe that you need the society as it is." - Ivan Illich

YouTube - John Taylor Gatto - State Controlled Consciousness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogCc8ObiwQ)

[american.swan]

Kludge wants me to get in on this, since I teach in a public elementary school in South Korea. I don't have much to say. I'm bias because I read Gatto's stuff. I can't really tell you the good and bad of Korean education when I hate public school in general.

Like Gatto says, state school is designed around "average students" who don't exists. The "average" in Korea is expected to study, meaning memorize, like mad. There is NO creativity and reasoning here. Students in elementary school are extremely busy, but can get to sleep fairly early if they wish. Middle school things start to change. Students attend institutes after school until late to either stay ahead or catch up with the herd. In high school, it gets insane. In Korea middle school and high school are three years each. In the last year of high school, there is no school. It's pure memorization for the college entrance test. They stay at school in some sort of study hall until midnight all year. If they "fail" the entrance exam, they can't go to the "better" schools. I say "fail" because every student can go to college, it's just a matter of where. Also, this stupid test determines what major they have. To change majors at any time, they have to retake this test or one very similar to it. Adult Koreans have nightmares like showing up with no pencil to failing it and living on the street, which again isn't fact, because there's space at some college for all of them. The stress shortens their life.

I have elementary school students who seriously have NO IDEA what to do unless I explain every last detail to them. They have no working head. They're like robots.

Someone asks about the youth lying about their age. This isn't possible. All Koreans and foreigners in Korea have national id cards based on their birthday. Unless they use daddy's number, they can't lie about their age.

Korea is NO bastion of liberty. The radio is heavily pro-globalist, even in English. To give you an example, Koreans don't care about their "home sports" hardly at all, but put them abroad where they can "show off Korean greatness" and they become national heros. This also works in the political realm. Hosting the G20 is a good example. Few would dare complain about such an "international honor" where Korea gets to "shine on the world stage".

[One Last Battle!]

Memorizing multiplication up to 100? That seems rather pointless. We have calculators for that which are far more reliable. There are far better things to do with your time.

Beyond that, I have the Canadian system, which is a bit better than the American one while still not being an endless factory run of memorization (at least, I think it is better than the American education system). We learned to multiply up to 12, etc. We also did quite a bit of critical thinking in grades 5-6. So far as you guys are saying, Korea doesn't have that? That is certainly a big disadvantage, as memorization can only get you so far (on the other hand, I have always been lazy with studying, so memorization is very important in some ways).

[LibForestPaul]

Well kids study from morning till night. That might explain why Times recently ranked S. Korea as having second highest education in the world.

I immigrated to U.S. when I was in fifth grade but I knew all the math until senior year of high school because I already learned it in Korea.

One of the biggest assets of American education is that it encourages creativity but at the same time, it is a bit too relaxed in comparison with countries like S. Korea or India. In India, you learn up to 100 in multiplication table (59 x. 42 etc etc)...while in America, we only learn up to 10.

The teachers also work harder and actually teach really well. They are very qualified teachers...I mean in America, you don't have to do much to get tenure. It's very different in Korea...unions don't have as much power as they do here.

Anyway, I got off the topic but I wouldn't be surprised if S. Korean govt did something to try to stop kids from becoming addicted to online gaming. I've heard of ppl dying from playing game all the time...but I wouldn't be surprised because the culture is very different in Korea so govt doing something like that is more accepted than in America. It is still very free country though but govt tend to get involved a lot in social affairs but it provides many valuable services for the people.

There is corruption still but lobbying is actually forbidden by law so there are no pacs or special interest groups as we have in...DC.

And how does this help an American get a LEO job with1/2 pay pension after 20 yrs and weeks of vacation and sick time?

[SeanKim]

And how does this help an American get a LEO job with1/2 pay pension after 20 yrs and weeks of vacation and sick time?

Huh? I'm sorry...I don't get what you mean?

[noxagol]

Memorizing multiplication up to 100? That seems rather pointless. We have calculators for that which are far more reliable. There are far better things to do with your time.

Beyond that, I have the Canadian system, which is a bit better than the American one while still not being an endless factory run of memorization (at least, I think it is better than the American education system). We learned to multiply up to 12, etc. We also did quite a bit of critical thinking in grades 5-6. So far as you guys are saying, Korea doesn't have that? That is certainly a big disadvantage, as memorization can only get you so far (on the other hand, I have always been lazy with studying, so memorization is very important in some ways).

Yes, past 10 it is useless really, as then you learn how to multiply numbers of any size. It's just a repeated process.

[SeanKim]

Memorizing multiplication up to 100? That seems rather pointless. We have calculators for that which are far more reliable. There are far better things to do with your time.

Beyond that, I have the Canadian system, which is a bit better than the American one while still not being an endless factory run of memorization (at least, I think it is better than the American education system). We learned to multiply up to 12, etc. We also did quite a bit of critical thinking in grades 5-6. So far as you guys are saying, Korea doesn't have that? That is certainly a big disadvantage, as memorization can only get you so far (on the other hand, I have always been lazy with studying, so memorization is very important in some ways).

Well, Korea does have some critical thinking courses but the education system is centered around math, science, english, etc.

Take a look at this ranking
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571445/World-rankings-for-reading-maths-and-science.html

I mean, I too hated the way the education system in Korea focused so much on just memorizing and studying endlessly...BUT you can't argue with the result. Having gone to school in both Korea and America, I do believe very strongly that American schools need to learn a bit from countries like Korea, India, and Japan in way that students learn more science, math, etc. We are falling behind int he world stage...I mean take a look at all the foreign students that end up in our graduate programs. That's not a coincidence.

American students these days are fat, dumb, and uneducated and a lot of times, the fault belongs to the indifferent parents and teachers. The society has failed these kids...I do think some discipline is needed for both the teachers and also the students. For example, this tenure system is very corrupt as well as the teacher's union. Also, the parents don't care as much about the children's education and that's a major problem as well.

S. Korea can also learn to allow more creativity and imagination shine in classrooms and I believe that the education system is changing to allow this to happen. There are more private schools that are popping up that are adopting the American system of education while still focusing on academic excellence for all students. It's still got some way to go...but once again, I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it you know and S. Korea's education system is top 3 in the world so who can argue with the result?

[SeanKim]

Yes, past 10 it is useless really, as then you learn how to multiply numbers of any size. It's just a repeated process.

True. But Indians do do that....I'm not saying that it makes you much smarter or anything like that but look at how many Indian's are talented in computer science or math. I mean 90% of my school's computer science phD students were from India or China. This is not a coincidence. They study much more rigorously in math and science and while multiplying to 100 might sound unnecessary, I think it helps with their thinking process and having more scientific mind.

I know that when I first came from Korea, I was shocked at how much students relied on calculators and not using their head to calculate things...I mean, of course we have this easy way to calculate things but on the long run, not having the capability to do calculations in your head is probably a disadvantage for students in fields such as math or science. That's my opinion anyway...

[pcosmar]

Adult Koreans have nightmares like showing up with no pencil to failing it and living on the street, which again isn't fact, because there's space at some college for all of them. The stress shortens their life.

.

Makes me wonder what the suicide rate is.
:(

[SeanKim]

Makes me wonder what the suicide rate is.
:(

Oh the suicide rate is quite high...it's very stressful for students.

I do think kids are overstressed...but I mean on some level, it makes them work harder and achieve more. It's little too high standard though...I don't know what to make of it. On one hand, I wish they would relax the standards a little but I know why they did that...mainly because Korea had nothing but ashes after Korean war so to advance, they had to use their head hence education was very important. But nowadays, I feel that they should relax the standard a little especially given that S. Korea is an economic powerhouse and has top ranked education in the world. But then again, by relaxing the standards it may lower the education level so...who knows? But more extracurricular activities and less rigor might be more beneficial for the children and I think is needed. The opposite is true for American system though...haha

[pcosmar]

Oh the suicide rate is quite high...it's very stressful for students.


I expect as much.
:(

[ChaosControl]

At least they are studying instead of partying, getting drunk, and getting pregnant like Americans.

The Korean system may have flaws, but the American system is worse.

I think the best system does need to focus on the ability to learn rather than anything else, and most all places do a pretty poor job on that. Its like with economics, you teach someone how to help themselves, you don't endlessly supply them with a living. In education you teach them how to teach themselves rather than constantly make them memorizing things.

People complain how the Asian systems are all rote memorization, and that may be true, but really the American system is mostly memorization too, it is just we're lazier about it. A lot of us will just memorize for a test then forget everything.

The curfew thing, well I guess I can understand that with how addicting a lot of online games are. Although ultimately I agree it should be the parents monitoring their kids more. But I can see no problem with say the net cafes not allowing under 18 usage after midnight, I don't know how it is now there though.

Well if things go how I plan, I'll see how things are there more directly...

[armstrong]

Parents can't say no in S Korea?

Why are we trying to save this "beacon of freedom" again?
:confused:

again I agree with you and my thoughts as well

[american.swan]

Well, Korea does have some critical thinking courses but the education system is centered around math, science, english, etc.

Take a look at this ranking
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571445/World-rankings-for-reading-maths-and-science.html

I mean, I too hated the way the education system in Korea focused so much on just memorizing and studying endlessly...BUT you can't argue with the result. Having gone to school in both Korea and America, I do believe very strongly that American schools need to learn a bit from countries like Korea, India, and Japan in way that students learn more science, math, etc. We are falling behind int he world stage...I mean take a look at all the foreign students that end up in our graduate programs. That's not a coincidence.

American students these days are fat, dumb, and uneducated and a lot of times, the fault belongs to the indifferent parents and teachers. The society has failed these kids...I do think some discipline is needed for both the teachers and also the students. For example, this tenure system is very corrupt as well as the teacher's union. Also, the parents don't care as much about the children's education and that's a major problem as well.

S. Korea can also learn to allow more creativity and imagination shine in classrooms and I believe that the education system is changing to allow this to happen. There are more private schools that are popping up that are adopting the American system of education while still focusing on academic excellence for all students. It's still got some way to go...but once again, I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it you know and S. Korea's education system is top 3 in the world so who can argue with the result?

I want to disagree with you, but on most levels I just can't. There are serious problems with America's education system but I can't say Korea is some sort of role model. I don't want my kids going through the grinder of Korean public schools or American schools. Korea is insanely too stressful and the competition is just plane stupid. America is probably too far the other direction as you say.

I think the reason I hate both Korean and American schools deal with the more subtle problems, like what Gatto discusses. While Korea students are generally better than American students, the middle rank Korean student and the middle ranked American student both have the same emotional, character, bad habits and the like that public schooling is designed to impart to students.

It's more than just grades in my mind.

[One Last Battle!]

Bump of the century?

[BlackTerrel]

Parents can't say no in S Korea?

Why are we trying to save this "beacon of freedom" again?
:confused:

South Korea is awesome. One proposed law not with standing.

Agree we shouldn't get involved but it is a great country. I have been to Seoul a number of times.

[sunghoko]

Bump of the century?

could be, although it is an interesting topic.

South Korean National Assembly passed the law April 29th btw

[jtstellar]

it's a little different in asia.. each country is like the size of a big state here in the us.. all of them together actually may function like an absolutely decentralized region where each nation-state makes its own laws.. it's rare to find ridiculous laws spread from one region to another unless they were proven effective in some ways. so let them have their trial. this may drive tech and internet industries out of korea and as for the vacuum they leave.. who knows. maybe it will get filled and maybe it won't. the companies will go somewhere in asia.. maybe japan, perhaps china. let those regions specialize. maybe korea will become the educational center of asia, and then when people grow up and need entertainment, they leave. who knows.