North Carolina Sound Money Project

[GunnyFreedom]

The United States is entering a period of a massive Treasury Bond Bubble, which many are calling a 'currency bubble' because it's the currency - US Dollars being issued by the Federal Reserve Bank - being inflated until it breaks and eventually collapses.

A currency bubble is unique and completely unpredictable. The most likely outcome will be for Federal Reserve Notes to one day just lose 95% of their value as the Bonds bubble collapses, and the next day it takes a $100 note to buy a gallon of milk. But we don't actually know how a currency bubble collapse will play out.

What I do know is that the 50 States are at particular risk from an entity - the Federal Reserve Bank - that we have zero control or influence over. We need to create at least the ability for our Citizens, businesses and industry to at least hedge themselves against the coming almost certainly coming currency bust. What the outcome will be from a currency bust, I don't think anybody can predict because it's so new -- but we can make educated guesses, and the best way to hedge against a currency collapse is to allow value as currency, since value cannot be subtracted from itself from a remote location.

The answer is in the US Constitution. The several States are authorized themselves to mint currency, as long as it is silver and/or gold exclusively. It's a little unorthodox, but so is the collapse of a global currency bubble.

We can let the North Carolina statewide marketplace slowly hedge itself against the coming collapse. We mint silver monometallic currency from 1/4 oz (denom at $5 NCD and exchanged for USD at spot weight) to 100oz (denom $2000 NCD and exchanged for USD at spot weight)

After 2.5 years, NCD probably dominates 10% of marketplace and infiltrates 75% to 90%. When/if the USD collapses businesses don't go under because they can easily track inflation/deflation simply by listing prices in NCD and letting the USD go at exchange rather than vice versa. In the event of a primary currency collapse, NC businesses will simply have to use a small accounting trick to side-step the worst of it.

Many financial experts believe that the collapse of the USD has become inevitable. It's not a question of if, but when. We don't know if we are still going to have a US Dollar in it's current form in 20 years, 10 years, or 2 years. An eventual collapse seems most probable especially given it's mismanagement over the last 15 years, but the root of that mismanagement has been active for at least 75 years, and that will be an awful hard ship to turn, especially since the gross imbalance had not grown enough to slow growth until the 1970's.

Minting State coinage for actual circulation (yes most people will save them instead of spending them. We should encourage their spending also so they infiltrate deeper into the market and provide shelter for when the currency collapse does eventually come) is an unorthodox solution to potentially devastating problem. If/when the collapse of the USD comes, hedging our State by minting silver $NCD could actually save our State from financial devastation.

[low preference guy]

great proposal! and a very important one!

[jclay2]

Gunny, I wish you were my state representative. Sounds awesome.

[BuddyRey]

North Carolina desperately needs something like this. How should other NC honest money advocates go about promoting this legislation?

[GunnyFreedom]

North Carolina desperately needs something like this. How should other NC honest money advocates go about promoting this legislation?

well first it has to make it from concept stage to legislation stage. That means exploring what we want it to do and not to, and then writing it up in legalese. Once the bill is introduced is when we can start having a real impact.

BTW - I am trying to recruit our-type people to attend the NCGOP convention cycles this year. Maybe you know a few who will toss in to the conventions... Reg deadline for GOP is Dec 30th to attend 2011 conventions.

[GunnyFreedom]

great proposal! and a very important one!


Gunny, I wish you were my state representative. Sounds awesome.

Thanks guys, really though we need to flesh out the concept. That OP there's just a couple bones on a plate with some talk-talk to make em look better. What would a State level silver currency mint act even look like? I think the sooner we put it together and polish it up, we can translate it to legal and get it on the floor.

[sluggo]

I'm no expert on monetary policy, so I won't be of much help in the planning phases.

However, if you get this fleshed out I'll do whatever I can to get my Rep. to sign on.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Great idea. I've been thinking of this very thing as a simple solution to ending the fed's power over freedom loving states. Once they issue their own currency, the fed will no longer own their citizens. Hope it gains traction.

[Sola_Fide]

Whoa!

Great idea Glen!

[Sola_Fide]

Whoa!

Great idea Glen!

[Chester Copperpot]

Just somehow include a bank that allows people to save in a silver account. that way people are protected against inflation.. hell i live in NJ and Id do all my banking in North Carolina if the bank allowed me to transact in silver...

[Seraphim]

I applaud your effort Glen.

Now prepare yourself to be called a domestic terrorist by the establishement if this gains ANY political traction.

[sratiug]

Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

You can't "coin money". But you can make gold and silver legal tender, which would make paper useless. It would be challenged in court but the FEDs wouldn't have a leg to stand on, since they have no such power.

[Pericles]

Just somehow include a bank that allows people to save in a silver account. that way people are protected against inflation.. hell i live in NJ and Id do all my banking in North Carolina if the bank allowed me to transact in silver...
Banks would have the option of offering accounts in NCD (NC Dollars). You put silver or gold money in and get the same money out. Payments in USD are made at the daily exchange rate.

[Travlyr]

Originally Posted by US Constitution
Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.


You can't "coin money". But you can make gold and silver legal tender, which would make paper useless. It would be challenged in court but the FEDs wouldn't have a leg to stand on, since they have no such power.
This info is "gold." :)

[Acala]

Great idea!!!

My suggestions would be:

1. Don't give it any denomination. Just put the weight and fineness on the coin. Let the market set the US Dollar equivalent. This will save you problems with the Federal government about coining money and actually result in BETTER money that is more resistant to debasement and instability. This is especially true if you issue more than one metal. If you have gold issued in NCD and silver issued in NCD one of them is always going to be over-valued compared to the other as the markets flucutate. Gresham's law will then cause the one that has a face value that is less than the metal value to be pulled out of the market. This was a big problem when the US issued both gold and silver dollars.

2. Don't try and pass any legal tender laws. The Fed paper will destroy itself soon enough. You don't need to fight a battle over it. Just issue your metal coins and let the market do its thing.

3. Give a discount for payment of taxes in gold and silver and in turn pay state employees a percentage in gold and silver. This will put the coins into circulation. It will also bring gold and silver into the state. You can start with a very small percentage and then work up.

4. Exempt exchanges of gold and silver for dollars from all taxation. Maybe eventually exempt ALL transactions in gold and silver from sales tax.

[Seraphim]

Great idea!!!

My suggestions would be:

1. Don't give it any denomination. Just put the weight and fineness on the coin. Let the market set the US Dollar equivalent. This will save you problems with the Federal government about coining money and actually result in BETTER money that is more resistant to debasement and instability. This is especially true if you issue more than one metal. If you have gold issued in NCD and silver issued in NCD one of them is always going to be over-valued compared to the other as the markets flucutate. Gresham's law will then cause the one that has a face value that is less than the metal value to be pulled out of the market. This was a big problem when the US issued both gold and silver dollars.

2. Don't try and pass any legal tender laws. The Fed paper will destroy itself soon enough. You don't need to fight a battle over it. Just issue your metal coins and let the market do its thing.

3. Give a discount for payment of taxes in gold and silver and in turn pay state employees a percentage in gold and silver. This will put the coins into circulation. It will also bring gold and silver into the state. You can start with a very small percentage and then work up.

4. Exempt exchanges of gold and silver for dollars from all taxation. Maybe eventually exempt ALL transactions in gold and silver from sales tax.

Good post

[Working Poor]

go glenn!!

[KCIndy]

Great idea!!!
1. Don't give it any denomination. Just put the weight and fineness on the coin. Let the market set the US Dollar equivalent.



Great point!! Setting a denomination, especially in relation to the U.S. Dollar, is likely to hinder much more than help.

Perhaps 1/10, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 oz coins?

Using metric would be more precise, frankly, but would also be a lot more confusing to the general population.

[Stary Hickory]

It would hedge NC against the monetary corruption coming out of DC. I hope this makes it.

[sratiug]

If you want them to be North Carolina Dollars, pass a law defining a North Carolina Dollar as a coin with X amount of silver. Let the state approve designs and private mints produce the coins, so the state is not "coining money".

In Mississippi we have some department that promotes tourism. Maybe the coins, I mean NC Dollars (you can't call them coins I don't think), could be pushed from that angle commemorating places or people or events from NC.

You might could even let localities design their own versions to use to promote buy local campaigns. Or even local businesses having their own Joe's Pool Hall (can't remember the name...)/Hendersonville/North Carolina dollars. RJ Reynolds might want to put cigarettes on theirs though, lol.

[GunnyFreedom]

Great point!! Setting a denomination, especially in relation to the U.S. Dollar, is likely to hinder much more than help.

Perhaps 1/10, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 oz coins?

Using metric would be more precise, frankly, but would also be a lot more confusing to the general population.

0.10
0.25
0.50
1.00

or

1/8
1/4
1/2
1

fractional ounces are easier to change, 2/8 makes 1/4 & 4/8 makes 1/2 etc

decimal ounces will always leave that .05 out on the quarter unless we come up with a nickel. A silver nickel would never work, since 0.05 oz silver would be way, way too small.

[Travlyr]

The Coinage Act of 1792 (http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/coinage1792.txt) specifies exact weights and purity.

[nate895]

decimal ounces will always leave that .05 out on the quarter unless we come up with a nickel. A silver nickel would never work, since 0.05 oz silver would be way, way too small.

Which is why nickels were made from, I don't know, nickel. LOL. $0.05 silver piece. That'd be a little tiny thing.

[Travlyr]

Which is why nickels were made from, I don't know, nickel. LOL. $0.05 silver piece. That'd be a little tiny thing.

HALF DISMES--each to be of the value of one twentieth of a dollar, and to contain eighteen grains and nine sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or twenty grains and four fifths parts of a grain of standard silver.

Or 1.20283 grams of pure silver ... likely pretty small.

[nate895]

HALF DISMES--each to be of the value of one twentieth of a dollar, and to contain eighteen grains and nine sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or twenty grains and four fifths parts of a grain of standard silver.

Or 1.20283 grams of pure silver ... likely pretty small.

They made for the small amount of silver by diluting the coin with nickel. It wasn't small, it just did not contain as high a percentage of silver as dimes and other higher value coins.

[Dr.3D]

Why not just use the silver dollars the government mints produce and accept them as currency?
Of course the dollar value stamped on them would be different than the fiat paper currency but prices in stores and other places could be adjusted to compensate for the difference. It would be like going back 50 to 100 years when the dollar was actually worth a dollar.

[Baptist]

Even if you get North Carolina (or any state government) minting coins I will be happy. I think that government minted coins are preferable because they are easily recognized as legit over private mints. However, as a Christian I have a problem with that whore-looking Lady Liberty on all the coins. I wish that state governments would mint coins with different designs, kinda like state quarters are now. That would be awesome.

[Dr.3D]

Even if you get North Carolina (or any state government) minting coins I will be happy. I think that government minted coins are preferable because they are easily recognized as legit over private mints. However, as a Christian I have a problem with that whore-looking Lady Liberty on all the coins. I wish that state governments would mint coins with different designs, kinda like state quarters are now. That would be awesome.

Again you are reading my mind.

[KCIndy]

However, as a Christian I have a problem with that whore-looking Lady Liberty on all the coins.


Gasp!!

You're calling Lady Liberty a whore?? :eek:


*ahem* I'll have to change my avatar pic!!

[MozoVote]

North Carolina has a historical claim to coinage, because it was the site of privately minted coins by the Betchler family in the 1830s. Most of the gold in the US was mined in North Carolina, before the California gold rush.

If you want the State to accept payment of local coinage as legal tender, I think you need to get them on board.

The first step I think, would be for the state to offer commemerative coins honoring that past. Raleigh is always needing more money, allow a fair seigniorage of 5% or so, to the state at issuance.

The state could raise additional funds, by auctioning off the rights to design obverse sides of the coins.

[Anti Federalist]

Introduced in 2009 in Indiana

Senate Bill 0453

ARCHIVE (2009)

Latest Information

http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/billwatch/billinfo?year=2009&session=1&request=getBill&docno=453

DIGEST OF INTRODUCED BILL

Use of gold by the state and local government. Requires the treasurer of state to designate one or more electronic gold currency payment providers to be a payment provider for the state and political subdivisions. Requires the treasurer of state and fiscal officers of political subdivisions to: (1) maintain one or more electronic gold currency accounts with a designated electronic gold currency payment provider; and (2) conduct all monetary transactions of the state or political subdivisions through electronic gold currency accounts. Provides that an electronic gold currency payment provider must use an electronic gold currency unit that constitutes a monetary unit of account and represents a claim of title to and ownership of a specifically defined, fixed weight of gold held by an independent specie vault. Specifies that a specie exchange with which an electronic gold currency payment provider associates must conduct the business of exchanging gold and silver coin, legal tender of the United States, and the electronic gold currency of the electronic gold currency payment provider. Provides that after December 31, 2009, the state and political subdivisions may not compel or require any person to recognize, receive, pay out, deliver, promise to pay, or otherwise use or employ anything but gold and silver coin (in that form or in the form of a designated electronic gold currency) as media of exchange with respect to certain payments. Provides that after December 31, 2009, a person receiving certain payments from the state or a political subdivision has the option of accepting payment in either legal tender of the United States or in electronic gold currency

[Anti Federalist]

New Hampshire's version of the bill that we tried to get passed in 2005.

http://www.goldmoneybill.org/goldbill.pdf

[american.swan]

GLENN!! Follow what....I think it's SOUTH DAKOTA...does. Do all state taxes and state business through state banks and state credit unions. If you can...let citizens have silver / gold accounts at the STATE banks / State credit unions. Don't let state funds into federal banks. Set up a framework for a 100% reserve state bank / credit union. See what you can do. Get some experts on this.

[KCIndy]

Introduced in 2009 in Indiana

Senate Bill 0453




Yeah, sadly that bill never gained much traction. I wrote my state senator about it a couple of times, even tried to explain it further, but was met with a pretty resounding, "Ehh..." (I'm paraphrasing, of course!)

Unfortunately this is an issue that most people find confusing and frankly, even politically active people often suffer from the "eyes-glaze-over" effect when discussing it.

I also think the Indiana bill set itself up for failure by putting too much emphasis on electronic accounts backed by PMs rather than simply working on coinage, but that's just my opinion.

[MozoVote]

Making simple, but concrete steps at such an early stage is better. A series of N.C. commemoratives, in denominations small enough to be actually used, is progress. A bill stipulating that the state will accept payment in hard money, is progress.

Coins could be offered as prizes by the state lottery. That would stimulate interest in both.

[GunnyFreedom]

bump to bring it back into my reply cue

[nobody's_hero]

Gunny, did you try to reach Dr. Edwin Vieira yet? I think he lives in Virginia now.