PDA

View Full Version : Is The United States Of America Officially Dead as a Country for Freedom Or Liberty??




speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 09:07 PM
Hi Folks, I ask this question since we were raised to believe our country stood for Liberty and Freedom! At this point i am 42 and i honestly want to know if folks think this country can be saved or is it beyond saving??

Personally i think we have passed the maybe point and are going for the downhill now!

so my question is this. Can The Unites States Of America be saved from the US Corrupt Government or is it beyond saving from the corrupt politicians who have destroyed this country from within!!!!!

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 09:11 PM
I voted yes but lean maybe if we can get Ron Paul the gop nomination!! Ron Paul 2012

Golding
11-27-2010, 09:14 PM
No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 09:19 PM
No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.

I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country;) I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor;)

kahless
11-27-2010, 09:38 PM
I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country;) I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor;)

It is not just the federal government. If the federal government disappeared tomorrow the state, county and town I live would still be a big pain in the ass.

Not sure about Southern Colorado but I bet there is still oppressive property taxes, zoning laws, mineral and water rights issues. The biggest threat to freedom as I see it is property taxes. Things would be different if property taxes were illegal under Constitution.

wormyguy
11-27-2010, 09:47 PM
Yes. I'd say the world, too. Human beings simply have a flawed genetic code that cause us to think the wrong way.

lynnf
11-27-2010, 09:49 PM
freedom and liberty are definitely on the ropes, but not dead yet. the recent backlash about the nakedizer scanners and grope downs (they are not pat downs anymore) is a good sign. people are still not awake in sufficient numbers though.

we are down on a lot of fronts and a major reason for it is the UN's Agenda 21, which is sneaking in at the federal, state, county, city, rural, and corporate levels. that's one reason it's so overwhelming.

lynn

Golding
11-27-2010, 09:51 PM
I hear ya, it would be nice to visit other countries but the US GOV is making sure i never leave my own country;) I hope to save enough money to maybe move to costa rica one day or southern colorado!!! There are not many options to get away from the tyranny of the US GOV especially when the us gov makes sure they keep you poor;)True enough, but it also depends somewhat on priorities. I made it a point to leave for a while, expand my horizons, and somehow fit it into my career direction. It's definitely interesting to view the US from the outside for a while. I've been fortunate enough to see a great deal these past few years. Living in many different states, spending time in a third-world country that's developing its Constitution now. Been overwhelmed with lots of perspective.

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 09:52 PM
It is not just the federal government. If the federal government disappeared tomorrow the state, county and town I live would still be a big pain in the ass.

Not sure about Southern Colorado but I bet there is still oppressive property taxes, zoning laws, mineral and water rights issues. The biggest threat to freedom as I see it is property taxes. Things would be different if property taxes were illegal under Constitution.

I totally agree!! There might be a few counties in central colorado worth saving;) I will never truly own land in the US since they make sure you never do!!

phx420
11-27-2010, 09:55 PM
I feel like we are absolutely fucked, every day is worse than the last, and its never as good as it seems. I take comfort in the fact that there are people who understand our natural rights and speak up against oppression, but America is becoming a place where it will no longer be safe to do so. I think if "We the People" revolted today, It would be too late. We would be slaughtered in the street's and the masses wouldn't mourn us or understand why we died. lol jk.

TXcarlosTX
11-27-2010, 09:57 PM
RonPaul2012

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 10:16 PM
True enough, but it also depends somewhat on priorities. I made it a point to leave for a while, expand my horizons, and somehow fit it into my career direction. It's definitely interesting to view the US from the outside for a while.

all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!

kahless
11-27-2010, 10:31 PM
all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!

Not to forget your mandatory health insurance premium coming soon or pay the penalty. I have been shooting for the same thing in a very rural area but property taxes and mandatory health insurance presents a cost issue.

As far as Costa Rica, I have considered that also. Have you mastered the language, waiting until the time comes or know of a good english speaking enclave down there?

Pauls' Revere
11-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Maybe...

I always like, and ask this question when I cast my vote.

Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 10:40 PM
Not to forget your mandatory health insurance premium coming soon or pay the penalty. I have been shooting for the same thing in a very rural area but property taxes and mandatory health insurance presents a cost issue.

As far as Costa Rica, I have considered that also. Have you mastered the language, waiting until the time comes or know of a good english speaking enclave down there?

I will never pay the mandatory health insurance or penalty. We actually had insurance and paid for many yrs and got into a major car wreck that ended up hurting my wife badly. Insurance covered everything then after her major surgery denied it leaving us with 500,000 in medical bills and then that started the slide where we lost our house and cars and everything! The fact is i will move the f out of this country before i ever pay a dime in the BULLSHIT Insurance racket that f'ed us and left us with a half a mil in medical bills! FTG and FTI. The IRS owes me 3-4,000 dollars and the gov can go f themselves over mandatory health coverage!! I only make 12 dollars an hr. The gov can go f themselves!

F Corporations
F IRS
F Insurance
and if i left anyone else out F Them TO!!!!


I have not mastered the language yet but there are english enclaves and i have a few folks i know thru the liberty movement that speak highly of costa rica and a few that actually live there,of course i have to save money to just move there. i hope to buy some land in colorado but the more i think about it! The way our country is going? costa rica sounds like the main plan but i truly love colorado. I am very torn but if things keep going this way the us gov will help me make my decision for me Costa Rica or the moon!!

Kylie
11-27-2010, 10:41 PM
Shit.


I answered no(only because I'm still living, and as long as I live and breathe, I will fight), then read your post.


Now it's a maybe.

Marenco
11-27-2010, 10:54 PM
Don't mean to be a debbie downer here but liberty, once lost, is very very hard to get back and is usually lost forever as we have seen throughout History.


"[On ancient Athens]: In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again. "
— Edward Gibbon

axiomata
11-27-2010, 10:58 PM
I accidentally voted yes but I meant no. If there was no hope then there'd be no point in what we do.

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 11:03 PM
I accidentally voted yes but I meant no. If there was no hope then there'd be no point in what we do.

Do Not get me Wrong i am not giving up;) Ron Paul 2012 I will be a republican delegate;)

axiomata
11-27-2010, 11:14 PM
Do Not get me Wrong i am not giving up;) Ron Paul 2012 I will be a republican delegate;)

I just realized the question you asked in your OP has the opposite spin as the one in the poll title. Yes, it can be saved. No, it is not dead.

idirtify
11-27-2010, 11:24 PM
No. It's easy to feel that way when you only see the US, and you watch specific liberties crumble before your eyes. But spend some time in countries that are a little worse off when it comes to freedom, and you wind up coming home with a new appreciation for what you still actually have. The US is sick, but it's by no means dead.

While a comparison is always warranted, it’s not really fair in this case. There will always be far worse-off countries, but this doesn’t really speak to the current decline of ours – or the tragic nature of it. Pointing to worse examples is like trying to minimize the complaints of a slave by telling him he should feel lucky to be alive.

axiomata
11-27-2010, 11:28 PM
While a comparison is always warranted, it’s not really fair in this case. There will always be far worse-off countries, but this doesn’t really speak to the current decline of ours – or the tragic nature of it. Pointing to worse examples is like trying to minimize the complaints of a slave by telling him he should feel lucky to be alive.
Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?

idirtify
11-27-2010, 11:31 PM
Yes. I'd say the world, too. Human beings simply have a flawed genetic code that cause us to think the wrong way.

While I get your drift (and somewhat agree), your wording is a little harsh. Instead of “genetic code” (which implies more permanence), I would be more critical of our state of education and more blameful of our environment. Americans in particular generally came from a very bad recent history (all “recent” immigrants).

lx43
11-27-2010, 11:34 PM
I vote Maybe.

I see some glimmers of hope with the election of Rand Paul, Justin Amash, and Gunny. BUT we need a lot more victories before we return to a truely free country.


Don't give up hope! Read the accounts of the hardships faced by the patriots during the Revolutionary War.

idirtify
11-27-2010, 11:36 PM
Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?

While that’s a good question, it’s not too relevant; since few have the option to just move to a different country. Most are faced with the local situation, like it or not.

idirtify
11-27-2010, 11:39 PM
Largely, my only hope is Internet communication. Being able to talk to you fine folks is priceless. Never has government been able to completely strangle its people so long as the lines of communication remain open – and never has there been better lines than now. In essence, the gov is trying something it has never tried before.

low preference guy
11-27-2010, 11:40 PM
Tis it better to live in a state with a relatively high amount of freedom slowly being eroded or live in a state with overall less freedom but slowly growing?

if you can move easily, obviously the best thing to do is to live in a country with eroding freedom and move just before it collapses to the other country with growing freedom.

the problem is figuring out when is the right time to leave, because if you wait too much, you might not be allowed to leave.

Isaac Bickerstaff
11-27-2010, 11:48 PM
all i want now is some land to grow my own foods! I have my used paid for car and my wife! My plan now is to move to southern colorado or northern NM or costa rica and become sustainable!!! simple goals for life!!! I want nothing to do with my gov except pay my slave property taxes!!

How about southern MN?
Seriously.

speciallyblend
11-27-2010, 11:58 PM
How about southern MN?
Seriously.

you guys are the best;) you would be on my top list:) We need to come visit you guys this spring or summer but you know our door is always open for you to come ski/board the co mtns:)

haha love your location name:)

Philhelm
11-28-2010, 12:16 AM
I voted no. Never give up; never surrender! I'm the most cynical bastard in the world, but so long as there is one person in the U.S. fighting for freedom, it is not dead.

Tinnuhana
11-28-2010, 12:40 AM
As long as there are any lighting the brush fires, there's hope.
Great, interesting read: American Insurgents, American Patriots by Breen. Find out about the early conspiracy theories, money bombs and tea party and how a new, fast way to communicate (broadsides and postal service) brought the revolution to the colonial "masses". Fascinating. It can happen again. We can make the world over again.

johnny.rebel
11-28-2010, 01:16 AM
not dead, just waking up.