Libertarian states

[eugenekop]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?

[aravoth]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?

How is California "richer"?

[RonPaulCult]

New York City (not the entire state) is rich because the government props up the financial giants of that city. As the financial center the wealth spreads quite nicely in that city. Still, there are many poor in that city also.

If California is richer than other states right now I"d say it's because of the tech companies in Nor Cal (free market companies) and the film/entertainment industry of LA (also private industry). The government of California is quite broke and there are sections of California that have some of the worst housing problems of the country, not to mention the most unemployment.

Texas is not as socialist but it has a great deal of wealth.

New Hampshire is widely considered the most libertarian of states.

[Bman]

Let me give you my thoughts. First off they are two of the most populated states in the country. So say we assume that the average American makes X dollars. They already are richer due to that. Also because of the density of the population in certain regions it also causes increased prices on resources. Since so many people are bidding on the goods, it raises the prices of most assets for people in those areas. Which causes more cash to be transfered, but the numbers have a lot of imagination involved. The cash has no intrinsic value.

[Sola_Fide]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?


California and New York are welfare-state debt-drowned basketcases. Kentucky and Indiana, for example, at least attempt to balance their budgets.


BTW, a case can be made that in light of the two examples you gave, that social conservatism leads to fiscal conservatism:) Jus sayin....

[Tinnuhana]

How's Montana? Wyoming? Whatever states Ron Paul did well in during the primaries.

[BamaAla]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?

You started with a false premise. New York and California are both struggling mightily. Those states do have more rich people in them, but that has nothing to do with their legislature's policies. Los Angeles county has twice the population of my state, so it stands to reason that there will be more rich people there.

[johnny.rebel]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?
By richer, do you mean hopelessly in debt and can't pay their obligations?
New York debt (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/12/01/2009-12-01_borrow_sorrow_new_yorkers_in_debt_for_648b.html )
California debt (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/01/californias-debt-now-risk_n_481058.html)

Socialism enriches the ruling class and impoverishes peasants.

[eugenekop]

Well look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
As I said I don't have all the information, but it does seem that high income correlates with more socialist states.

[agitator]

North Dakota

[Sentient Void]

Well look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
As I said I don't have all the information, but it does seem that high income correlates with more socialist states.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Correlation =/= causation.

Not to mention your OP started with a major false premise. One that a few others pointed out (on the contrary, NY and CA are riddled with disgusting amounts of debt and other serious economic problems).

Typical Statist logical fallacies.

[Icymudpuppy]

I can't speak about New York because I know less about it's history.

California on the other hand prior to the 1960's was truly a land of free enterprise for english speaking settlers going all the way back to the 1810's. It only recently has become a socialist haven, and it's economy has suffered dramatically. The only thing keeping it afloat right now is the federal subsidies, and the central californian agricultural community which during the winter provides most of America's vegetable produce.

[cindy25]

Texas is fiscally conservative but no way libertarian. not with their death penalty.

[t0rnado]

Alaska for sure.

[paulitics]

The coastal states have a huge economic advantage due to proximity to the ocean. This is why it is populated, and jobs so plentiful.

California has recently benefited the most because of our trade with China. Everything comes to California first, then shipped across the country. With Nafta, and plans for NAMU, Texas may become the new California.

I can see California's economy tanking because jobs and revenue will be lost, but irrational social utopians will not give up because they have no economic common sense.

[MN Patriot]

Welfare caseloads by state. If California and New York are so prosperous, why do they have so much poverty?
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel_cas_tot_rec-economy-welfare-caseloads-total-recipients

Just goes to show how there is a statistic to prove anything you want.


#1 California: 1,085,627
#2 New York: 341,004
#3 Texas: 333,435
#4 Pennsylvania: 207,429
#5 Michigan: 202,469
#6 Ohio: 188,108
#7 Tennessee: 180,466
#8 Washington: 140,721
#9 Indiana: 140,571
#10 Georgia: 132,003
#11 Florida: 119,080
#12 Arizona: 111,334
#13 Missouri: 108,561
#14 Massachusetts: 108,469
#15 New Jersey: 101,854
#16 Illinois: 99,952
#17 Minnesota: 93,665
#18 North Carolina: 83,906
#19 Kentucky: 76,688
#20 Virginia: 70,199
#21 Maryland: 62,066
#22 Louisiana: 56,157
#23 Puerto Rico: 54,544
#24 Iowa: 51,713
#25 South Carolina: 48,028
#26 Wisconsin: 47,712
#27 Mississippi: 45,191
#28 Alabama: 44,646
#29 Oregon: 43,591
#30 Connecticut: 43,292
#31 Dist of Col: 43,136
#32 New Mexico: 42,999
#33 West Virginia: 41,478
#34 Kansas: 39,093
#35 Maine: 37,562
#36 Oklahoma: 35,974
#37 Rhode Island: 35,714
#38 Colorado: 34,862
#39 Nebraska: 27,079
#40 Nevada: 25,832
#41 Hawaii: 25,409
#42 Arkansas: 25,382
#43 Utah: 21,800
#44 Montana: 18,074
#45 Alaska: 15,927
#46 New Hampshire: 15,061
#47 Vermont: 12,737
#48 Delaware: 12,351
#49 Guam: 10,783
#50 North Dakota: 8,602
#51 South Dakota: 6,143
#52 Idaho: 3,204
#53 US Virgin Is 1,359
#54 Wyoming: 729

[MozoVote]

I cannot begin to think of a state as Libertarian if it has an income tax. That narrows the list pretty quickly.

[Fredom101]

California is "rich" because it's a beautiful place with great weather in many places and people with money want to live there.

There are no libertarian states or even small government states. NH has a few less laws like seat belts and things like that but it is not really more free.

I would say CA is the most libertarian state with the most socialist gov't- because of the people that live there. More entrepreneurs in CA than anywhere else I've been, most small business owners do whatever they can to avoid paying state income taxes so it's DESPITE the gov't not because of the gov't that there are so many entrepreneurs.

[Toureg89]

Alaska for sure.
definitely alaska, and maybe montana.

alaska has uber gun rights (almost the most pro 2A state in the union), has no income/real estate taxes, and has decriminalized marijuana.

i have the belief that because Alaska is so secluded and rugged, it fosters an uber free environment of capitalism, because, otherwise, society wouldnt be as self sustainable.

[ChaosControl]

I don't have all the data, but from what I know the more socialist states in America are richer, for example California and the State of New York. That kind of weird, isn't it? By the way, which do you think are the most Libertarian states in America?

No state is "socialist", no state is "libertarian".
Every state though is corporatist authoritarian.
As for which is supposedly less authoritarian? Well it entirely depends on the activities you want to do. For somethings it may be Nevada, for somethings it may be NH, for some it may be Texas.

And considering California is bankrupt, I don't get how you think it is rich, unless you're counting the wealth of the all the hollywood scum that the idiotic populace worships like gods.

[wormyguy]

Alaska for sure.
Not given the recent senatorial results.

I'd say either New Hampshire or Montana. In terms of "walking the walk" at the state level, Nevada.

[denison]

No state is "socialist", no state is "libertarian".
Every state though is corporatist authoritarian.
As for which is supposedly less authoritarian? Well it entirely depends on the activities you want to do. For somethings it may be Nevada, for somethings it may be NH, for some it may be Texas.

And considering California is bankrupt, I don't get how you think it is rich, unless you're counting the wealth of the all the hollywood scum that the idiotic populace worships like gods.

:D ^all this.

[payme_rick]

I visited a libertarian state once... while I was there, I took this picture:

http://edubuzz.org/blogs/kingsmeadow/files/2010/02/loch-ness-monster.jpg

[FSP-Rebel]

This is about a year and a half old but it's still the most recent compilation of data on the most libertarian of states: http://mercatus.org/publication/freedom-50-states-index-personal-and-economic-freedom?id=26154. The pdf can be downloaded near the top of page, but it lists NH, CO and SD as the most freest states based on the criteria that was used. I would guess NH will become more freer over the next few years due to the recent purge of dems from the legislature while electing over 25% of the house as RLC candidates. And the Executive Council, which controls expenditures, are all conservatives.

[Acala]

I won't say it is the MOST libertarian, but Arizona must be in the top five. We have too many taxes. But we have:

excellent gun (and knife) laws;
charter schools
home schooling
best laws on alternative medicine
20-year renewal on driver's license
restrictive eminent domain law
A law requiring the full text of the US Constitution to be posted in every public classroom including the Universities
AND NOW (trumpet please)

Medical MJ

Plus Arizona is right up with the leaders in 10th amendment issues having enacted either by legislation or initiative the following:

Firearms freedom act
medical mj
Obamacare nullification
Affirmative action prohibition

[talkingpointes]

I won't say it is the MOST libertarian, but Arizona must be in the top five. We have too many taxes. But we have:

excellent gun (and knife) laws;
charter schools
home schooling
best laws on alternative medicine
20-year renewal on driver's license
restrictive eminent domain law
A law requiring the full text of the US Constitution to be posted in every public classroom including the Universities
AND NOW (trumpet please)

Medical MJ

Plus Arizona is right up with the leaders in 10th amendment issues having enacted either by legislation or initiative the following:

Firearms freedom act
medical mj
Obamacare nullification
Affirmative action prohibition

Don't forget too mention our lovely sheriff that is the biggest piece of shit.

[Acala]

Don't forget too mention our lovely sheriff that is the biggest piece of shit.

Agree 100%. And he isn't the ONLY piece of s&*t politician in this state. BUT we also have Jeff Flake and a few others who are among the better.

[Baptist]

By richer, do you mean hopelessly in debt and can't pay their obligations?
New York debt (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/12/01/2009-12-01_borrow_sorrow_new_yorkers_in_debt_for_648b.html )
California debt (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/01/californias-debt-now-risk_n_481058.html)

Socialism enriches the ruling class and impoverishes peasants.



EXACTLY.

You are looking at the neighbor who is using credit cards to buy boats, dirt bikes, TVs and jacuzzis and saying, "man! that guy is rich." And then pointing to the neighbor in the double-wide who has zero debt and labelling him "poor."


Look at unemployment. All the "rich" states are screwed. It's the "poor" states that are doing the best in this recession.