Federal Judge: Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Linked to Hamas

[FrankRep]

Judge's ruling on Islamic groups as 'unindicted co-conspirators' made public (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1110/Judges_ruling_on_Islamic_groups_as_unindicted_coco nspirators_made_public.html?showall)

Politico
November 19, 2010


However, publication of the ruling is a mixed blessing for the groups: the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Islamic Society of North America and the North American Islamic Trust. That's because U.S. District Court Judge Jorge Solis found that the government presented "ample evidence to establish the association" of the three organizations with Hamas, a Palestinian group that the U.S. has labeled as a terrorist organization and with a defunct charity convicted in the terrorism support case, the Holy Land Foundation.



Federal judge confirms CAIR is Hamas
Unsealed ruling reveals 'ample evidence' tying group to terror (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232181)


World Net Daily
November 23, 2010


WASHINGTON – A federal judge has determined that the Justice Department provided "ample evidence" to designate the most prominent Muslim group in America as an unindicted terrorist co-conspirator.

According to a federal court ruling unsealed Friday (http://www.wnd.com/files/1425.pdf), the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations has been involved in "a conspiracy to support Hamas," a federally designated terrorist group that has murdered at least 17 Americans and injured more than 100 U.S. citizens.

The 20-page order (http://www.wnd.com/files/1425.pdf), signed by U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis, cites "ample evidence" that CAIR participated in a "criminal conspiracy" led by the Holy Land Foundation, Hamas's main fundraising arm in the U.S. As a result, the judge refused CAIR's request to strike its name from documents listing it as an unindicted co-conspirator in the case.

"The four pieces of evidence the government relies on do create at least a prima facie case as to CAIR's involvement in a conspiracy to support Hamas," Solis wrote in his July 2009 ruling.

The evidence includes documents introduced by the government showing CAIR and its founding chairman Omar Ahmad have operated as key members of Hamas' U.S. wing, known as the "Palestine Committee." In addition, FBI wiretaps and agent testimony have placed both Ahmad and CAIR's acting executive director – Nihad Awad – at a secret meeting last decade with Hamas leaders in Philadelphia. Meeting in a hotel room, participants hatched a scheme to disguise payments to Hamas suicide bombers and their families as charity.

"The attendees agreed not to mention the word Hamas but to refer to Hamas as 'Samah,' which is Hamas spelled backwards," Solis said. "The Philadelphia conference essentially laid out the path that the Palestine Committee would take to accomplish its goal of supporting Hamas in the future."

During the meeting – which was organized and led by CAIR founder Ahmad – the Hamas operatives agreed to form CAIR as an outwardly benign front group skilled in media manipulation. "They did not want to be viewed as being aligned with terrorist groups," he said.

The judge did not dispute "press accounts and blog entries" that "CAIR is a criminal organization that supports terrorism," according to the ruling.

The government's evidence undermines CAIR's public face as a "civil-rights advocacy organization," while corroborating the findings of the bestselling book, "Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That's Conspiring to Islamize America." The book chronicles the undercover investigation of P. David Gaubatz and his son, who interned at CAIR's national headquarters.

CAIR has sued the Gaubatzes for trespassing, but has not denied any of the book's explosive findings tying CAIR closer to terrorism.

According to Politico.com, a federal grand jury in Washington is actively hearing evidence against CAIR emerging from the Holy Land trial, while also reviewing the thousands of pages of evidence gathered in the "Muslim Mafia" investigation. Prosecutors subpoenaed the evidence shortly after the book was published last fall.

CAIR, which has not been charged with a crime, denies allegations it works for Hamas – even as it refuses to condemn the terrorist group by name.

"CAIR is not a front group for Hamas," insisted CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper, "or any of the other false and misleading associations our detractors seek to smear us with."

CAIR maintains it is simply a Muslim-rights group, but the Justice Department says it is a front group not only for Hamas, but for its parent the radical Muslim Brotherhood – a worldwide jihadist movement that prosecutors say has a secret plan to impose Shariah law on the U.S.

"From its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists," said assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg in a separate court filing.

In 2007, U.S. prosecutors first named CAIR an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal scheme led by the Holy Land Foundation to funnel more than $12 million to Hamas suicide bombers and their families. A jury in 2008 convicted the charity and its leaders on all 108 felony counts.

"CAIR has been identified by the government at trial as a participant in an ongoing and ultimately unlawful conspiracy to support a designated terrorist organization – a conspiracy from which CAIR never withdrew," said assistant U.S. Attorney Jim Jacks, who recently won an award from Attorney General Eric Holder for convicting the Holy Land terrorists.

The Holy Land revelations prompted the FBI to sever ties with CAIR until it can demonstrate it is not a terror front.

"Until we can resolve whether there continues to be a connection between CAIR or its executives and Hamas, the FBI does not view CAIR as an appropriate liaison partner," advised assistant FBI Director Richard Powers in a 2009 letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Media outlets – including Fox News, which is financed by the same Saudi prince funding CAIR – continue to invite Awad and other CAIR leaders on the air to argue against airport profiling and other issues on CAIR's agenda. Fox has offered CAIR guests full segments unopposed by critics and without viewer caveats regarding CAIR's court-documented terror connections.


SOURCE:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232181

[FrankRep]

Before someone accuses me of being some secret Israeli agent or a "Neocon" (or whatever) , let me post this:


American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) caught spying on America:



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcDjOgtVFJeYOVMYiIOr-JSnHQI-iMTdujsIc8nr0G0yzZshsFMw


Ex-AIPAC official threatens to uncover mass spying at Israel lobby (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/official-uncover-mass-spying-israel-lobby/)

Rawstory
November 21st, 2010


A former foreign policy chief for the largest Israeli lobby in the US is threatening to provide evidence members of the organization regularly trafficked in classified US government information.


How the pro-Israel community supports its own (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/11/19/aipac_donors_supported_ex_official)
Rich pro-Israel donors gave huge sums to support a former AIPAC official even while he was facing espionage charges

SpyTalk - Ex-AIPAC official got at least $670,000 from donors (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/11/ex-aipac_official_got_670000_from_private_donors.html )

AIPAC dirty laundry aired as former staffer sues for defamation (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/aipac-dirty-laundry-aired-as-former-staffer-sues-for-defamation-1.325176)

AIPAC's Civil War (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/11/aipacs-civil-war.html)

AIPAC: Fighting for survival (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2010/11/2010112083231771111.html)
With the flailing lobby distracted by a legal battle with a former employee, peace may just have a chance.

[phx420]

self edited for flaming

[ExPatPaki]

but for its parent the radical Muslim Brotherhood – a worldwide jihadist movement that prosecutors say has a secret plan to impose Shariah law on the U.S.

oooh a "secret" plan.

*cue dramatic music*

:D

I wonder if they just copied the plan that the Zionist Jews used to take over the US political system.

[jmdrake]

That's nice. Now when are you going to report on the ADL's link to Hezbollah?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/3399/it-gets-worse-more-on-adls-hezbollah-speaker-ties-to-syria-more-terrorists-etc/


Before someone accuses me of being some secret Israeli agent or a "Neocon" (or whatever) , let me post this:


American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) caught spying on America:



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcDjOgtVFJeYOVMYiIOr-JSnHQI-iMTdujsIc8nr0G0yzZshsFMw


Ex-AIPAC official threatens to uncover mass spying at Israel lobby (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/official-uncover-mass-spying-israel-lobby/)

Rawstory
November 21st, 2010


A former foreign policy chief for the largest Israeli lobby in the US is threatening to provide evidence members of the organization regularly trafficked in classified US government information.


How the pro-Israel community supports its own (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/11/19/aipac_donors_supported_ex_official)
Rich pro-Israel donors gave huge sums to support a former AIPAC official even while he was facing espionage charges

SpyTalk - Ex-AIPAC official got at least $670,000 from donors (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/11/ex-aipac_official_got_670000_from_private_donors.html )

AIPAC dirty laundry aired as former staffer sues for defamation (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/aipac-dirty-laundry-aired-as-former-staffer-sues-for-defamation-1.325176)

AIPAC's Civil War (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/11/aipacs-civil-war.html)

AIPAC: Fighting for survival (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2010/11/2010112083231771111.html)
With the flailing lobby distracted by a legal battle with a former employee, peace may just have a chance.

[FrankRep]

oooh a "secret" plan.

The "Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)" is a real organization and it's not "secret."


The Society of the Muslim Brothers, often simply الإخوان Al-Ikhwān, The Brotherhood or MB) is an Islamist transnational movement and the largest political opposition organization in many Arab states.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#cite_note-ikhwanweb.com-0) The group is the world's oldest and largest Islamic political group,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#cite_note-ikhwanweb.com-0) and the "world's most influential Islamist movement."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#cite_note-1) It was founded in 1928 in Egypt by the schoolteacher Hassan al-Banna.

The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".[3] Since its inception in 1928 the movement has officially opposed violent means to achieve its goals,[4][5] with some exceptions such as in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or to overthrow secular Ba'athist rule in Syria (see Hama massacre). This position has been questioned, particularly by the Egyptian government, which accused the group of a campaign of killings in Egypt after World War II.[6]

The Muslim Brotherhood is banned in Egypt, and members have been arrested for their participation in it.[7] As a means of circumventing the ban, supporters run for office as independents.[8]

Beliefs

In the group's belief, the Quran and Sunna constitute a perfect way of life and social and political organization that God has set out for man. Islamic governments must be based on this system and eventually unified in a Caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate). The MB goal, as stated by Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna was to reclaim Islam’s manifest destiny, an empire, stretching from Spain to Indonesia.[19] It preaches that Islam enjoins man to strive for social justice, the eradication of poverty and corruption, and political freedom to the extent allowed by the laws of Islam. The Brotherhood strongly opposes Western colonialism, and helped overthrow the pro-western monarchies in Egypt and other Muslim nations during the early 20th century.

On the issue of women and gender the Muslim Brotherhood interprets Islam conservatively. Its founder called for "a campaign against ostentation in dress and loose behavior," "segregation of male and female students," a separate curriculum for girls, and "the prohibition of dancing and other such pastimes..."[20]

The MB is a movement, not a political party, but members have created political parties in several countries, such as the Islamic Action Front in Jordan and Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank. These parties are staffed by Brotherhood members but kept independent from the MB to some degree, unlike Hizb ut-Tahrir which is highly centralized.[21]

[ExPatPaki]

The "Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)" is a real organization and it's not "secret."


You should learn how to read. I said the plan that the prosecutors were referring to was a secret, not the organization. By the way, do you have another source for this besides WND?

[FrankRep]

You should learn how to read. I said the plan was a secret, not the organization.

Their plan isn't "secret" either.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/AP-1-2010/mosabhassanyousef-ap.001.jpg


'Son of Hamas' warns U.S. fatally falling for lies (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=194989)
'Peaceful' Muslims following Quran's dictate to establish 'global Islamic state'


World Net Daily
August 25, 2010


As the son of a Hamas co-founder who became a Christian, a spy for Israel and a consultant to the Holy Land Foundation terror-finance trial, Mosab Hassan Yousef offers a rare perspective on the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood – at once the spawn of nearly every major Islamic terrorist group and of "mainstream" operatives in the U.S. such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Yousef, who recently was granted asylum in the U.S. after the Department of Homeland Security tried to deport him (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=173101), told WND in a telephone interview Americans must understand that the ultimate goal of the highly influential Brotherhood is not terrorism but to establish a global Islamic state over the entire world.
...

[Heimdallr]

Who isn't linked to Hamas these days?

[ExPatPaki]

Their plan isn't "secret" either.

A traitor and a spy who sells out his people for money and fame isn't a credible source either. But your posts always continue to amuse me.

[specsaregood]

oooh a "secret" plan.


but for its parent the radical Muslim Brotherhood – a worldwide jihadist movement that prosecutors say has a secret plan to impose Shariah law on the U.S.

*cue dramatic music*


hrm, which would outlaw usury.....the banksters aint gonna like that one bit.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Oh, it's the old PR BS of, "If you're not with US, then you're with the 'Tear-Wrists'."

Anyway... in the Big Machine's Gestapo charge of "Conspiracy" means, the FEDS don't have actually evidence... just connecting a couple of cook book recipes over the wire.


Who isn't linked to Hamas these days?

Judge Solis page if interested: http://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/solis.html

[FrankRep]

By the way, do you have another source for this besides WND?

CAIR Finally Under Investigation (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34736)


The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a longtime partner of the FBI in its efforts to reach out to American Muslims, now appears to be under criminal investigation by that same FBI.
...
CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, is an unindicted co-conspirator in a Hamas terror funding case -- so named by the Justice Department. CAIR operatives have repeatedly refused to denounce Hamas and Hizballah as terrorist groups.


CAIR Identified by the FBI as part of the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestine Committee
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2007/08/cair_identified_by_the_fbi_as.php

Muslim Brotherhood Hamas-linked CAIR "No Pat Down" for the Hijabed: Supremacist “Special Recommendation”
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/11/muslim-brotherhood-hamas-linked-cair-no-pat-down-for-the-hijabed-supremacist-special-recommendation.html

Government Reminds Court of CAIR/MAS Ties to Terrorists
http://www.investigativeproject.org/blog/2008/02/government-reminds-court-of-cairmas-ties-to

CAIR Joins NAACP To Target Tea Party Movement
The Global Muslim Brotherhood Daily Report
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6796/pub_detail.asp

GOP Lawmakers Accuse Muslim Advocacy Group CAIR of Planting Spies on Capitol Hill
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/15/gop-lawmakers-accuse-muslim-advocacy-group-cair-planting-spies-capitol-hill/

Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld that's Conspiring to Islamize America
http://www.amazon.com/Muslim-Mafia-Underworld-Conspiring-Islamize/dp/1935071106

Federal Judge Agrees: CAIR Tied to Hamas
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1110/emerson112310.php3?printer_friendly

etc...

[ExPatPaki]

Nothing from CNN, BBC? I would even take Fox News, but that link isn't exactly about the WND story. Blogs usually aren't very credible especially that Atlasshrugs trash. But nice try though.

[FrankRep]

Nothing from CNN, BBC? I would even take Fox News, but that link isn't exactly about the WND story. Blogs usually aren't very credible especially that Atlasshrugs trash. But nice try though.

GOP Lawmakers Accuse Muslim Advocacy Group CAIR of Planting Spies on Capitol Hill
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/15/gop-lawmakers-accuse-muslim-advocacy-group-cair-planting-spies-capitol-hill/

[jmdrake]

I'm not sure who the "they" are. Israel helped foster the creation and growth of Hamas by releasing that man's father from prison for no good reason and then cracking down on the PLO for not cracking down on Hamas violence. But you only see treachery coming from one direction here.


YouTube - Ron Paul - Israel Created Hamas 01-09-09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3vF6Vcjr0)

Quoting Ron Paul: "If you look at the history, Hamas was really encouraged and started by Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yasser Arrafat."


Their plan isn't "secret" either.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/AP-1-2010/mosabhassanyousef-ap.001.jpg


'Son of Hamas' warns U.S. fatally falling for lies (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=194989)
'Peaceful' Muslims following Quran's dictate to establish 'global Islamic state'


World Net Daily
August 25, 2010


As the son of a Hamas co-founder who became a Christian, a spy for Israel and a consultant to the Holy Land Foundation terror-finance trial, Mosab Hassan Yousef offers a rare perspective on the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood – at once the spawn of nearly every major Islamic terrorist group and of "mainstream" operatives in the U.S. such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Yousef, who recently was granted asylum in the U.S. after the Department of Homeland Security tried to deport him (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=173101), told WND in a telephone interview Americans must understand that the ultimate goal of the highly influential Brotherhood is not terrorism but to establish a global Islamic state over the entire world.
...

[ExPatPaki]

GOP Lawmakers Accuse Muslim Advocacy Group CAIR of Planting Spies on Capitol Hill
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/15/gop-lawmakers-accuse-muslim-advocacy-group-cair-planting-spies-capitol-hill/

Wow, I didn't realize you were that slow.

Where does it say anything in that article about the federal judge?

[FrankRep]

Wow, I didn't realize you were that slow.

Where does it say anything in that article about the federal judge?

What do you think of Politico?


Judge's ruling on Islamic groups as 'unindicted co-conspirators' made public (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1110/Judges_ruling_on_Islamic_groups_as_unindicted_coco nspirators_made_public.html?showall)

Politico
November 19, 2010


However, publication of the ruling is a mixed blessing for the groups: the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Islamic Society of North America and the North American Islamic Trust. That's because U.S. District Court Judge Jorge Solis found that the government presented "ample evidence to establish the association" of the three organizations with Hamas, a Palestinian group that the U.S. has labeled as a terrorist organization and with a defunct charity convicted in the terrorism support case, the Holy Land Foundation.

[FrankRep]

Any comments about Politico?

[amy31416]

Hamas was founded, in good part because Israel supported them in order to break up growing support for Fatah.

They reap what they sow...and I don't consider Hamas a terrorist organization, I consider them people who've been radicalized by the conditions imposed on them by Israel, Egypt, Jordan and in some cases Saudi Arabia.

They lob rockets mostly into a neighborhood, renamed Sderot, that rightly belongs to the Palestinians who were driven out in 1948. The name of that village was Najd. And the Negev Brigade drove them out from land that was/is theirs.

So...would I call people terrorists if they were making life hard on people who stole my land, terrorized and murdered my family and neighbors who were fighting back as best as they could?

No. And neither would Jews if the same happened to them. In fact, many Jews used guerrilla tactics when they were imprisoned in the Warsaw ghetto--do you blame them too? Of course not, they are considered heroes.

There were even uprisings (intifadas) in the Warsaw ghetto...these Jews, who were also unarmed and heavily surveilled, managed to occasionally rise up, violently, against those who oppressed them, despite the odds.

What would you do? Call them terrorists too? If the Germans were victorious, perhaps that'd be the case. And maybe you should consider why you have a double standard, because it's quite likely that you've bought into some massive propaganda.

[oyarde]

The founding of Hamas , probably not too wise . I have to consider them terrorists because they fire into innocents , no free pass there . How many people would there be remaining that were violated in 48 ? What I really do not understand is why anyone would continue to fund them. Whatever result they wish for will not be gotten by present means , I think .

[ExPatPaki]

I have to consider them terrorists because they fire into innocents , no free pass there

Meh. All Israelis will serve in their military at some point, thereby directly oppressing Palestinians so doesn't really make them innocent. An occupier is never innocent.

[ExPatPaki]

Any comments about Politico?

Better, less biased spin than WND.

[sailingaway]

The founding of Hamas , probably not too wise . I have to consider them terrorists because they fire into innocents , no free pass there . How many people would there be remaining that were violated in 48 ? What I really do not understand is why anyone would continue to fund them. Whatever result they wish for will not be gotten by present means , I think .

It is those members who AREN'T associated with Hamas I feel bad for.

Any large group probably has criminals amongst its members, but to label the whole group taints the majority who likely have no ties of any sort to wrongdoing, I should think.

I'm thinking of the McCarthy era Communist groups. Maybe some even were really Communist front groups, but there was so much written about normal, charitably inclined people who joined these groups to aid the needy with no idea at all what might have been the original reason for their founding.



Meh. All Israelis will serve in their military at some point, thereby directly oppressing Palestinians so doesn't really make them innocent. An occupier is never innocent.

I would say that a child is always an innocent unless THEY have done something wrong. Otherwise no one is innocent anywhere; there is no country that didn't get their land from someone else at some point.

[Fozz]

Hamas is certainly a terrorist organization, and killing civilians is NOT justified, even if they are occupied. And just because Israel is authoritarian enough to draft its citizens, doesn't mean that children are not civilians.

Having said that, Frankrep confirms my view of the JBS as a nutty, conspiratorial, and McCartneyite group. So do bigots like Sharron Angle who demonized Hispanics. Frankrep really seems to hate Muslims, and somehow makes poor attempts to compensate by also being anti-Israel. I see the JBS as a group of nativist nuts, and RP's support for them happens to be one of his few flaws.

[jmdrake]

Hamas is certainly a terrorist organization, and killing civilians is NOT justified, even if they are occupied. And just because Israel is authoritarian enough to draft its citizens, doesn't mean that children are not civilians.

Having said that, Frankrep confirms my view of the JBS as a nutty, conspiratorial, and McCartneyite group. So do bigots like Sharron Angle who demonized Hispanics. Frankrep really seems to hate Muslims, and somehow makes poor attempts to compensate by also being anti-Israel. I see the JBS as a group of nativist nuts, and RP's support for them happens to be one of his few flaws.

I personally know JBS members who are nothing like FrankRep as well as JBS members who are very much like him. Don't judge an entire group by one of its members. Not unless you want people to say "All Ron Paul supporters are like X". ;)

[lester1/2jr]

who cares?

Hamas are the elected leaders of Gaza.

[lester1/2jr]

how many freaking times is frank rep going to post that story about the son of hamas or whatever?

Does anyone here think Islam is going to take over the United States? How the heck would they do that?

[jmdrake]

how many freaking times is frank rep going to post that story about the son of hamas or whatever?

Does anyone here think Islam is going to take over the United States? How the heck would they do that?

By buying up all of the quickie marts. ;) Seriously though, Islam is hopelessly divided against itself. Shiites and Sunnis hate each other worse than Catholics and Protestants ever did.

[Fozz]

I personally know JBS members who are nothing like FrankRep as well as JBS members who are very much like him. Don't judge an entire group by one of its members. Not unless you want people to say "All Ron Paul supporters are like X". ;)

The JBS may very well have some good people but if the group as a whole stands for McCarthyism and admires him then I'd have to conclude that the group's agenda has some really nutty aspects. Sharron angle sure doesn't help my perception of them.

[jmdrake]

The JBS may very well have some good people but if the group as a whole stands for McCarthyism and admires him then I'd have to conclude that the group's agenda has some really nutty aspects. Sharron angle sure doesn't help my perception of them.

In before FrankRep to point out that McCarthy actually got some of his "baseless" accusations right.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article6723449.ece

That said, there were undoubtedly innocent victims too.

I'm curious though. What's your problem with Angle?

[Fozz]

In before FrankRep to point out that McCarthy actually got some of his "baseless" accusations right.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article6723449.ece

That said, there were undoubtedly innocent victims too.

I'm curious though. What's your problem with Angle?

McCarthy helped move the Republican party fully towards the hawkish Cold War mentality, and away from limited government. He was a psycho.

As for Angle, she was a horrible candidate, and she seems to be mentally unstable. The main reason why I dislike her is because one of her ads portrayed Hispanics as a bunch of criminals, and made them all look very bad. The ads kept calling them illegal aliens and some people here may see nothing wrong with them, but some people are much more sensitive than others, especially minorities who feel that they are being attacked. As a result, the vast majority of Hispanics voted for Reid because Angle was being a bigot. She also fearmongered over Sharia law in America, which is obviously nonsense. The only good candidate in the Nevada senate election was Tarkanian.

[ExPatPaki]

Islam is hopelessly divided against itself. Shiites and Sunnis hate each other worse than Catholics and Protestants ever did.

What do you mean by "Islam" in that statement? Do you mean it as a political movement in the world?

Keep in mind that the Sunni/Shia relationship is extremely complex and I, as a Shia, have Sunni cousins, aunts and uncles.

[jmdrake]

What do you mean by "Islam" in that statement? Do you mean it as a political movement in the world?

Keep in mind that the Sunni/Shia relationship is extremely complex and I, as a Shia, have Sunni cousins, aunts and uncles.

I mean as a political movement. During the worst of the fighting in Northern Ireland there were Catholics and Protestants marrying each other. In fact in probably every conceivable division in this world (race, religion, nations, etc) you'll find people at the bottom getting along quite nicely. It's the folks at the top using those division as a springboard for power that fight. Those who say Islam is trying to "take over the world" ignore those fights for some odd reason.

[FrankRep]

Hamas is certainly a terrorist organization, and killing civilians is NOT justified, even if they are occupied. And just because Israel is authoritarian enough to draft its citizens, doesn't mean that children are not civilians.

Having said that, Frankrep confirms my view of the JBS as a nutty, conspiratorial, and McCartneyite group. So do bigots like Sharron Angle who demonized Hispanics. Frankrep really seems to hate Muslims, and somehow makes poor attempts to compensate by also being anti-Israel. I see the JBS as a group of nativist nuts, and RP's support for them happens to be one of his few flaws.

I merely pointed out the fact that CAIR to linked to Hamas and wrongly smear me of hating Muslims and Hispanics?

Conspiracies DO exist and and Mccarthy was RIGHT.


Glenn Beck: History Vindicated Joe McCarthy (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/culture/37-history/3876-glenn-beck-history-vindicated-joe-mccarthy)

Fox News host Glenn Beck aired an extraordinary program June 24 explaining how author M. Stanton Evans exposed how the facts released from the files of the FBI and the World War II-era Office of Strategic Services over the past two decades have vindicated the controversial charges of communism in the U.S. State Department by Senator Joseph McCarthy. by Thomas R. Eddlem

McCarthy's Still Right: Communist Treason in the State Department (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/4080-mccarthys-still-right-communist-treason-in-the-state-department)

Senator Joseph McCarthy is shown to still be right as U.S. District Court Judge sentences former State Department employee Walter Kendall Myers and, his wife, Gwendolyn Meyers to life in prison after nearly 30 years of being Communist spies on behalf of Cuba's intelligence agency - the CuSI. by Christian Gomez

A Reputation Rescued (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/reviews/books/3872-a-reputation-rescued)

Blacklisted by History, by author M. Stanton Evans, reveals the truth about Senator Joe McCarthy.

[jmdrake]

I merely pointed out the fact that CAIR to linked to Hamas and wrongly smear me of hating Muslims and Hispanics?


For the record, Fozz only accused use of smearing Muslims. His point about Hispanics was geared toward Sharon Angle. (I can't comment because I never watched her commercials). That said taking the word of a Mossad double agent about some "worldwide Muslim conspiracy" is ludicrous especially considering that the terrorist organization he infiltrated was nurtured by Israel with the precise motive of further dividing an already hopelessly politically divided Arab/Muslim world.



Conspiracies DO exist and and Mccarthy was RIGHT.


A broken clock is right twice a day.

[lester1/2jr]

expatpaki- are you saying there is no friction between sunnis and shias?

[ExPatPaki]

Those who say Islam is trying to "take over the world" ignore those fights for some odd reason.

Got it. Thanks for your response. Yes there is political friction between the two sects, especially in the Middle East where the fault lines are drawn also along ethnicity, i.e. Persian Shias vs. Arab Sunnis. Sunnis are still bitter about Iran because Iran used to be a Sunni country for over 800 years. It has only been a Shia country for the past 500 years.


expatpaki- are you saying there is no friction between sunnis and shias?

Definitely not. There is friction created unfortunately by foreign interference, illiterate Muslim preachers, etc. There's a lot more now than there used to be, especially in places like Pakistan.

There is also infighting among Sunnis and Shias. Wahabis (an extreme Sunni sect) regularly attacks Sunnis and Shias. Shias in Iraq and Lebanon have also fought amongst themselves.

Ethnicity is also important. In Afghanistan there are 4 main ethnic groups: Pashtun, Hazara, Tajik and Uzbek. Hazara are overwhelmingly Shia with a small Sunni minority. Pashtuns are Sunni with a small Shia minority. But a Pashtun and a Hazara will most likely distrust each other even if they belong to the same sect.

[Knightskye]

That's nice. Now when are you going to report on the ADL's link to Hezbollah?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/3399/it-gets-worse-more-on-adls-hezbollah-speaker-ties-to-syria-more-terrorists-etc/

Doesn't Debbie Schlussel accuse everyone of being anti-semitic?